new problem, this one could be bad - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• new problem, this one could be bad by chasingrabbitsvw on 25 Nov, 2007 14:10
• I had my car off the road for the weekend (This is an 81 1.6 na diesel jetta). just doing a few things to get it ready for winter. new brakes, yada yada. the only thing i did in the engine was to replace a busted fuel line and give it a quick rinse to get rid of any fuel in the engine compartment.  
  
  So when I was all done tonight I started it up for a test drive. It didnt start at first, which is odd. Then it started really rough and started to smooth out. it began surging a little; idling high, then low, then high. I let it warm up and it smoothed out some more. Then it started to rev by its self. at one point it started to rev pretty hard, so i shut it off. I started it up a little while later and it started fine. then it went back to reving agian. I decided to see how it would drive.
  
  I pulled out and only went around the block. It was pulling by itself at times. what was most disconcerting was a knocking noise heard from the passengers side of the motor.  I pulled back into my drive way killed it and checked the oil, which was fine. i opened the oil cap and it was smoking slightly. I am aware of some slight oil in the air box, but when i showed that to my buddy, he said it wasnt too bad.
  
  Ideas?? what should I do??  Who can help?  
  
  Im upstate at my parents house and was expecting to return to yonkers tonight. I work in the bronx tomorrow.
  
  I've only had the car since september, heres a pic:
  
• #1 by chasingrabbitsvw on 25 Nov, 2007 14:32
• ok, so tried it again. it ran better, but then the revs started to stick. i pulled the vent hose coming from the valve cover while it was doing this and I did not see any oil, just a little smoke. the knocking is what concerns me most.
• #2 by jtanguay on 25 Nov, 2007 14:50
• what kind of fuel line?? hard or soft return? was it brand new or used? sounds like an injector is misfiring.
• #3 by chasingrabbitsvw on 25 Nov, 2007 15:06
• hard lines. i replaced them with a set of used ones that were in pretty good shape. this could cause a surge? what about the knocking or the sticking revs?  On a side note, I pulled the breather hose and noticed that no oil was being blown out, only light smoke.
• #4 by jtanguay on 25 Nov, 2007 19:26
• Quote from: "libbybapa"

  Sounds like you might have gotten a piece of crud in one of the injectors and it's sticking open.  It does not sound like the sky is falling.
  
  Andrew

  
  
  ding ding ding ding
  
  you don't need to be too careful if working before the filter, but after the filter... you REALLY need to pay attention to cleanliness.  lots of brake parts cleaner and some compressed air to blast crud out.
  
  that is a beautiful car btw!
• #5 by chasingrabbitsvw on 26 Nov, 2007 17:14
• well, i guess thats a possibility, but there is some white smoking going on. could the injector get stuck open and then close and then get stuck open?  could it account for the knocking noise. on the tex there are a few people who say it sounds like its the head gasket leaking oil into the combustion chamber.
• #6 by burn_your_money on 26 Nov, 2007 17:55
• White smoke is usually retarded timing or burning coolant.
  
  I'd be surprised if this is a HG issue. A messed up injector sounds most likely
• #7 by chasingrabbitsvw on 26 Nov, 2007 18:41
• Im gonna try to get home tomorrow night and check the injectors. if there was burning oil I should expect black smoke. The smoke is definitely white and I have been concerned about the timing since I got the car. The knocking noise though? Could this be a symptom of the injector? Its definitely related to the problem.  
  
  The worst part of this scenario is that the car is 50miles away at my parents house upsate. I live in yonkers ny and work in the bronx. I gotta try to get up there and then get back for work.
• #8 by jtanguay on 26 Nov, 2007 18:42
• try this:  turn on the engine, pop the hood, and crack each injector line one by one (tighten it back up before going on to the next though)
  
  if you hear the engine speed go down or buck then that injector is okay.  if the engine nothing really changes when you crack that specific line, it is that injector that is bad.  a new injector is around $50 with a core and isn't too bad to change (as long as the injection pump isn't in the way for no.1 and no.2 injectors)
  
  might be worth taking the newly acquired injector lines off and blowing them clean with brake parts cleaner and compressed air.  be generous and use a full can or two.  painting them with some sort of rust paint might be a good idea too while they're off.  after all it is because of rust pitting that you changed them in the first place?
  
  my car smokes white until the temp gauge reads halfway too.  under full load she smokes a mixture of black & white when the temp gauge is at 1/4.  my coolant level hasn't gone down.  if your coolant level is going down, then be worried.  from what you've said about your breather hose, it seems like you have a nice strong running motor.  hopefully its just one injector that needs replacing  :wink:
• #9 by chasingrabbitsvw on 26 Nov, 2007 18:50
• the problem is coming from the 1st or 2nd injector. thats where the noise comes from at least and there seems to be more vibration on that side of the engine during this problem. The reason for changing the lines was that one of them cracked and the set that was on the car was missing bushings and clips. i changed the whole set cus the newer one i got were in much better shape. I'll try the test you suggested. Im still ordering a timing kit, cus im gonna need one.
  
  as far as smoke goes, i get white smoke at cold starts and under full throttle. I dont think the coolant levels changed much; I'dd know better, but I just corrected a drippy rad hose.  This car is pretty strong for a 1.6na. it will do 80-85mph with minimal noise or vibration. it does get slow on hills, but it seems it needs an adjustment with the fuel flow. I definitely need to correct some old problems from before I got the car.
• #10 by chasingrabbitsvw on 28 Nov, 2007 17:56
• Well, I came home tonight to test the injectors and the pump is in the way of the #1 and #2 injectors. Im not sure how to fix this and I am really frustrated with having no experience with this thing. I really need some help here.
  
  I let the car run for a while and it stayed pretty steady after a rough cold start.  Its 36 degrees out right now, so I guess it wasn't too bad of a start. I let the glow plugs run for about 8-10 seconds before cranking it over.  After it warmed up a bit I tried reving it a bit. Just a little at first, and then a little more. Soon after, it started to do its own reving. What I did notice this time is that the engine rocked a bit and vibrated a lot more when it reved itself.  
  
  One more thing I realized yesterday, before I parked this thing, I drove about 20 miles with out my fuel cap. I must have drove off with it sitting on the roof after fueling up. Stupid. I ordered one and got it today, but it must be for a gasser cus it didnt fit.
  
  I received my pump timing tools today in the mail from GAP. Not sure how to use the gauge yet.  Im pretty tired, so I dont think I'll be getting anywhere on this tonight. Im very disappointed and very frustrated.
• #11 by chasingrabbitsvw on 28 Nov, 2007 20:04
• went out tonight to get some drinks with some local vw guys and I feel alot better. my buddy explained that it sounded like my engine was nailing. just what you were saying. my plan for the weekend is to pull all the lines and injectors and thoroughly clean everything. Im gonna pick up an extra injector or 2 to be safe. Im gonna correct the position of the pump, advance the timing and get everything set. first i gotta learn how to use the gauge and reposition the pump. ive already got a good explanation on using the gauge, i just gotta get used to the idea of setting the timing i guess. we'll see.
• #12 by jtanguay on 29 Nov, 2007 09:35
• Quote from: "chasingrabbitsvw"

  went out tonight to get some drinks with some local vw guys and I feel alot better. my buddy explained that it sounded like my engine was nailing. just what you were saying. my plan for the weekend is to pull all the lines and injectors and thoroughly clean everything. Im gonna pick up an extra injector or 2 to be safe. Im gonna correct the position of the pump, advance the timing and get everything set. first i gotta learn how to use the gauge and reposition the pump. ive already got a good explanation on using the gauge, i just gotta get used to the idea of setting the timing i guess. we'll see.

  
  
  it's not too bad to do the timing.  so you were able to crack no.1 & no.2 injectors, and not much change in idle speed from either?  you might as well remove the injection pump to get at them.  you should spray them with a decent amount of penetrant as they will probably be a real pain to get out.
  
  the bentley manual goes a long long way when doing your timing!!!
  
  http://www.vwdieselparts.com/ - that site has some bentley pages scanned in.  shows how to time the motor.
• #13 by burn_your_money on 29 Nov, 2007 09:48
• Practice using the gauge while you still have the engine together. Once you can get consistent readings that makes sense then pull the pump. You can't clean the injectors. You're much more likely to damage them