rabbit TDI build

[Greasecar]

I am returning to the board after a long absence with a new project. I gave away my original Rabbit GTD after it sat in an idle state of restoration in my garage for 2 years (stripped out for body work). Discouraged by the amount of work I had into the car and the amount of work needed to complete it and distracted by numerous other projects and running my business, I handed it off to my friend Jay who is working on building her up on his own.

In the subsequent months I missed my old rabbit project but filled the void with my Golf TDI and diesel Mini, until last month when the Golf went up in flames. Unfortunately the insurance settlement won’t buy me a new Golf but in an effort to turn lemons to lemonade I figured it offered a good opportunity, scrap parts and budget to build a decent Rabbit TDI.

Over the next few months the plan is to salvage what I can from the burnt out Golf and build those modern comforts and power into my first love the MK1 Golf (Rabbit).


I found a decent old diesel Rabbit 2-door near by which I paid way too much money for. When I was originally into this you could get these for a few hundred bucks, my last one was $100 and I even bought an original ’84 Rabbit TD for $900. In any case excitement and impulse took over and next thing I know I’m bombing my new turd 2-door up I-91 with tie-rods rattling, bearings humming and brake lights about the only working electrical item.

Since the plan is to salvage and re-assemble the TDI from the Golf there is little concern about the long-term durability of the stock N/A 1.6l and because it is going to take a few months to get the TDI engine back together and prepped for installation I figured we’d have a bit of fun.

I forget how to properly post a photo but here's my try.

These are the remains of my poor Golf TDI:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/Greasecar/golf005.jpg

[Greasecar]

I had three choices in front of me:

-My old BAE kit with it’s big low pressure long lag Rayjay turbo which would add a bit of power at higher RPMs and offer little threat of damaging the stock N/A engine.

-A factory Rabbit/Jetta TD Garrett turbo setup which would offer decent power

-Lastly I had a spare 2001 Golf TDI turbo and manifold set with it’s tiny quick spooling turbo integrated into the manifold.

Since I had already seen what the other two units could do on a 1.6 setup the choice was simple for a bit of quick fun.
 
As most of you here know, the manifolds for a 1.9 TDI will bolt right up to a 1.6l cylinderhead and there is plenty of room behind the engine to fit the little turbo

The oil pan, oil filter assembly and lines from the BAE kit made for a quick solution to lubing the turbo.

The minimal challenge was fabbing the intake, charge pipes and exhaust. In the past I would order a handful of mandrel bent pipes from JCWhitney and piece something together but since the cost of those items has gone up quite a bit and bends are not available in all sizes I chose a different route.  I had used 2 in on my last Rabbit for exhaust so I figured I’d up the ante to 2 ¼ this time around as this is what the TDI turbo is normally set up with.  Luckily I found a local shop with a good bender who bent up all of my exhaust and charge pipes for $130.  Of course I did end up having to cut and weld a bit here and there but the rear section of exhaust fit much better over the trailing arm than the one I pieced together last time.

The exhaust flange had to be cut and rotated but I was able to use the first bend on the TDI head pipe (nice mandrel bent stainless). The rest was modeled after the original Rabbit exhaust just bigger.

The turbine compressor shell had to be rotated to clear the drive axel and some funky pieces made to go from the 1.5 in outlet to the 2.5 in intake port but nothing a few hours and a box of misc. parts couldn’t take care of.  

Photos are on the server computer at my office so I'll post some next week.

[RabbitGTDguy]

JUSTIN!!! Is it you? Welcome back if so! Have been wondering what you have been up too!

Let me know if you need any help! Another mTDI build on my plate here this winter into my b3 variant as well as continuing work on the mk1 mTDI (02a/j swap, interior,bodywork i hope, etc)

Great to have you back!
Sorry to see the demise of the Golf


Joe

[Greasecar]

Joe-
It is me.  I have been keeping an eye on your build and it looks sweet! Glad to see that '79 went to good use, what did you do with your original shell?

Since I have the whole car and a couple of helpers, we are planning to do a full ECM controlled TDI swap.  I'd definitely like any suggestions you have on engine mounting.  

I'd love to check out your car, let me know if you are ever coming through New England

[RabbitGTDguy]

Justin,

I just plain ran out of room here with the old shell and just couldn't keep both with my space constraints...and the 79 body wise was the better choice with minor working needing done to the body.
The GTD shell currently resides with a friend and member of this board here, "Fuslit" who has it inside and plans to put it back on the road with an IDI TD swap.

I'm on the hunt for a nice clean 2dr. mk1 or early mk1 rocco...so keep those eyes peeled. We may be buying a house soon, with a VERY nice garage, that would allow me the room! So....

Yes, the Mk1 is def. fun! ALOT of fun. I've been driving it all week this week and then switched to the b3 yesterday and even driving my wife's MKIV 1.8T I fell like I'm in a tank taking a nice sunday drive...
Its a blast with even more to come...

I'm willing to help on any mounting problems, questions, etc. that you have! Let me know what you need. My "mount" for the p side is really simple...and works nicely, its detailed in my thread. I'll be getting my 02a mounts from WRD I think as they are "stocking" them now and look to be really nice units.
 Nice idea on the ECM control, especially if your target is more efficiency rather than power adjustability, etc.  And if you have the entire harness...its probably cheaper/easier to be honest! If I had a complete ECM and harness, pump for the next build, I'd be doing a eTDI into the b3 instead of the m unit. But, I don't have it...nor do I have the money to piece all of it together $$$ wise..so m is cheaper for me in this route and really isn't that much less "efficient". Quieter, def. not! Either way, it'll be fun. Now on the mk1...hmm...mTDI was always the plan because of the pump I wanted to build, turbo selection and power I was after... something that in addition to finding all the eTDI stuff, plus the cost of reflashing the ECM to run the fuel/power levels I'd want...just TOOO expensive!
Maybe you have seen "lagomorph"'s car on the vortex? Or over on TDI club. I don't think he has posted here yet. But he did a nice eTDI swap with a AHU motor into his car a couple years ago...a '77 MK1, miami blue....beautiful, with minor upgrades nozzle/chip wise... selling the car now. 14k

Congrats by the way! I've been watching greasecar over the last few years here, checking the site every now and then wishing I had a daily setup for the system! Its great to see where you have gone from where it started! I remember!!!  Its great to see things are going so well and such and I have to say that the big reason for the b3 variant swap to mTDI (motor build this winter, swap in spring) is so I can finally get a kit in the car and make it truly a utilitarian car!
By the way, I've also made contact with the only guy here locally I know running the true GREASECAR kit...in a 2002 Jetta Wagon. Nice guy, I've helped him out a few times but there are also "kits" being made in Ithaca here too...so, its interesting to see how its growing! But he proudly displays the greasecar logo right across the rear of his car!


Joe

[Greasecar]

I think Lagomorph has that car for sale over on Vortex, I'll look out for the build thread, do you remember where it was?  Its a real nice car and I was thinking about it, but I can't rationalize $14k on a Rabbit right now

Gongrats to you as well, I heard that you got married.

Here are a few photos just to give you an idea of what I'm working with.

[img] http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/Greasecar/DSC00012.jpg [img/]

[img] http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/Greasecar/DSC00011.jpg [img/]

[img]http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/Greasecar/DSC00007.jpg[img/]

[img]http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/Greasecar/DSC00009.jpg[img/]

[img]http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/Greasecar/DSC00015.jpg[img/]

[ratty]

joe-
do u have a build post or can u talk with me more about the m-tdi in the mk1 bc this is my idea to use in my 80 four door rabbit

[RabbitGTDguy]

my build thread is listed in the forums here, right on the first page...
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1956

Justin, Yes...thats lagomorph. Pretty nice guy, I don't know if he'll pull what he wants out of it...but it is a nice car. Was a eurotuner feature car along with a miami blue vr6 (with really cool OEM graphics on it) MK1 that was in there as well.
To post a picture directly its

Nice looking bunny your starting to work with Justin! I haven't seen one "that high" in quite a while! Reminds me of when I had Boge with the HD spring setup on the car! Looks like its a nice shell to start with def. though. Finding them in any sort of "solid" condition in this area is hard to do. Even on the 79, I have rust repair work to do Really, I wish it was a 2dr....but alas. Going with what I've got for now.

Anyways...the other pictures that you posted. Are those specific issues you are having with manifold fitment/EGR, etc?

Joe

[Greasecar]

Those other photos were just to give an idea of what the current 1.6l with TDI turbo and 2 1/4 exhaust look like.  It is really tight behind the engine and it is hard to see the plumbing and turbo from up top.  So far so good with this setup and I got my electrical fixed this weekend, now that I have functioning lights I should be able to register and drive it a bit to see what it can really do.

I need to figure out what the best sequence of events is for the build.  I am planning on driving the car while the TDI engine is getting put back together but I still have a few things to do to get her up to speed.
-Patch some rust in the floors
-Add a resonator to the end of the exhaust
-Figure out why my brakes are still soft (replaced all wheel cyl and calip. already)

I am planning on attempting an A4 dash and harness swap as part of the engine swap.  Shouldn't be too bad since I have the donor car but I certainly plan on having the interior ripped out for at least a few weeks while the wiring and fitting takes place.

Right now my girlfriend is driving my Passat and I plan on taking the mini off the road by the end of November so I need to decide whether to build out this shell or drive it and find a solid stripped out shell that I can pick at over the winter.

Of course, the issue is finding a good one like you said.  I missed out on a beautiful '84 rolling shell that had been totally stripped and painted back in 1988 and has been in storage since.  It was mint with all sorts of powder coated accessories and totally bare ready to build up as new, but alas, I snoozed and losed out to some young Vortexer who put in a deposit earlier in the day that I decided to go down and get it. It was $3500 which is why I had to think twice, now that I already have that into my current turd, I am kicking myself.

[RabbitGTDguy]

I can understand you there Justin ( on the "shell" situation). I know what you mean in a build progress too. Honestly, the best way to do it IMHO is if you have engine rebuild stuff you need to do. Get that all done during the winter months. I did my build during the winter, did all my sandblasting of spare parts I had (mounts, etc), did all my idea formation...then swapped in the spring. Took my time on the motor build and built as $$$ allowed at the time, etc. and its still a continuing work in progress. I thought maybe "paint" this year...well, that may or may not happen.
My idea has been that with the setup I've done with the car, I wanted to go through and make sure I had everything mechnically setup the way I wanted to... i.e. intercooler mounting, pump locations, brackets that I'd have to drill holes for, etc. etc. so that when I went for final paint and body...all non-needed holes, etc. would be covered up, rewelded, etc. and then later on once it is painted...I'm not drilling or making holes in good fresh paint!
So...she kinda goes "rat stylz" at the moment. Or OEM -worn

The pics do make it tight. You also have to decide...is this a car you'll be driving year round once the swap is done or not? In the "not" situation, you could remove the raintray from the car and open up the bay a bit and still retaining the heater, etc. by building in a close box for it (i'm doing this , this winter)...but I wouldn't recommend removal of the raintray for year round use.

Also, on your MKIV dash swap...it has been done, and can be. There are threads on the vortex detailing it. Its ALOT of cutting with the MKIV dash and most recover them with something else in the process as well. There was also a guy parting a partially finished 1.8T rabbit on there as well, and it had a modified MKIV dash...not completely finished, but it was partly done. There are considerations when you do the MKIV dash swap about what heating setup you'd use, which involves relocating the blower box, all accessories, some cutting, welding, etc. etc.
A different story though if it isn't a year round car.

Another solution for that is what Mr.Dave did. He use the stock MK1 dash and made his own bezel for the MKIV cluster goodies, etc. and it turned out fairly nice as well!

As for your brakes being soft. Check that master cylinder...they can go bad without loosing fluid...i had mine go on the b3 here this past spring and it was a "soft brake" problem.
Doesn't sound like its the booster...but, you never know...
Vac. pump diaphrapm been replaced lately as well? Always nice in making sure the brake system is healthy


Joe

[Greasecar]

I couldn't get that

[RabbitGTDguy]

I was looking at the Mini on the website...that looks like a def. fun project...

On the dash....I'll see if I can dig and find the info that I had on it. It really wouldn't be that hard if you were planning on "recovering" it after you make your cuts, etc. I'm thinkin about recovering an early MK1 dash I have here that has only a few cracks in it...early....dual round gauges (or come in the "cyclops" single gauges), the original german dash. I have some nice black onyx microsuede I bought to go along with the green plaid inserts I'm making to do the door panels, pillar trim, etc. in...may recover the dash. Also...gives it that ferrari touch! Nice...fabric treated dash.

Anyways...I'll look to see if I can find more info. and post it to you.

As for the TDI tranny and swapping to rabbit axles flanges. Thats a no go...
The TDI trannys actually have a more coveted axle flange. The 02a style TDI tranny from the MK3 and B4 cars run the "02a" casting for the tranny, but have the newer style 02j diff...the MKIV...all 02j. The unique thing about the 02j diff and its axle flanges on the TDI is that they are 1.) bolt on and 2.)they are 100mm
Which makes things nice...you can run 100mm axles from a 16v scirocco or any 85+ MK1 cabby and not have any issues. You'll need to either also get 16v or 85+ MK1 spindles (clearanced for 100mm outers) or clearance your 90mm spindles to clear the axles. Some people have had problems with it, needed to clearance...some say its not an issue. Clearancing 90mm spindles for the 100mm axles though is the best route IMHO  or find 85+ mk1 spindles (i'm actually trying to locate a set right now).

So...just unbolt the flanges to replace those seals...and reinstall. The axle orientation, etc. will be fine.

Many 1.8T owners actually seek out TDI flanges when doing big hp upgrades because 1.8T units are 108mm and our TDI ones are 100mm...weird that they stepped down in size but...ok.

Pretty easy there.

For mounting the 02a, you'll need custom mounts. There are many different variations out there and some now that you can even just buy online which is even nicer. However, I imagine with your fab skills that you might go your own route on making some. My welding skills probably aren't to that point yet, so i'll more than likely be buying some...they are available from WRD.

I'm also using the cable acutated clutch setup on my CTN 02a TDI tranny as well. I have all the bits to do it (thanks to another board member here ). Since your using the MKIV tranny, the clutch slaves orientation is slightly different than that of the 02a style trans if I remember correctly...but the bolt pattern is the same, etc. so it may be possible for you to use the cable acutated version as well.
I'd post pics, but looks like they are "dead" in my other thread, so I'll have to snap a few, upload them and then post.

Joe

[Greasecar]

Joe,

You certainly are a wealth of knowledge.

If there are parts that we need in common (such as tranny mounts) let me know and perhaps I can fab up pairs, that way you can help with the engineering and we can jump in on the welding and machining.

I'd love any info you already have on the tranny swap.

I just to the rabbit for a little blast at lunch and that little diesel 4-speed is about the worst match for the extra power of the modified 1.6.  There is a guy near by advertising an FN for $70, maybe I'll drop that in for the meantime (FN seemed pretty good in the last bunny). Thoughts on that?

As far as the dash goes, it looks to me that most of the trimming is on the depth as the width is doable.  The swaps I saw looked like they had minimal trimming on the ends and were not sectioning the center.  If I can figure out where material needs to be removed ahead of time rather than hacking it until it fits, we may be able to do it without recovering.  The whole shing appears to be molded foam rubber with a textured vinyl skin.  If you are careful and trim from behind you should be able totrim under the skin and leave a flap to cover the edge once it is to size.  All of this is of course based purely on face value as I have no experience doing this.

[RabbitGTDguy]

Justin,

Yes, I def. wouldn't mind helping and us helping each other out at the same time if it proves to be useful! I believe we have been there before
Anyways, on the mounts. There are several different versions out there and I seem to recall someone that put up ALL the dimensions for both the tranny D. Side mount and the lower tranny mount as well. Even so far as to have them in a CNC format if my memory serves me correctly. I'll have to look, maybe I have the graphic around somewhere, but I know they are out there. Just can't remember whether it was here or on the 'tex

Any info you want on the tranny swap, just let me know. There are considerations when going to cable shift in the MK1 for the best routing for the cables (as all the cables are slightly longer than what the MK1 likes, etc. I can tell you what I've thought of, what I plan to do, etc. Other than that...its not too bad of a swap in the end! I can't WAIT to have the CTN in the mk1...its really going to make the car fly quite nicely

On your current trans...yes...I'd swap in the FN for now. Would you believe, I'm running the same FN trans that I had in the old IDI TD setup on the mTDI setup currently. Its a tough unit! Granted though, I'm taking it easy on it as I don't want to have to put the car away TOOO early this year...but it is a nice trans for the good ole' IDI motors...NA or TD. Mine is starting to show its age, etc. but still has been in the mTDI for about 1.5years now without issues. Again though...i haven't gone out and really beat on it. Not my style
For $75...you can't beat that. You may have to rewire the tranny switch on it as the FN uses the funky plastic "box" switch with the additional pinouts for the upshift indicator, etc. but thats easy enough.

You've got the complete and right idea on the dash. Thats how I'd do it. Most that I have seen that have done the MKIV and the MKIII dash have cut the dash where the "glove box" side/p side of the dash would meet to the HVAC/vent portion of the dash, shorten it there and then use that flap that you mention to make it all one unit again. Many have turned out very nice
Even more fun...maybe a TT dash which is more at home in a tight cockpit Have seen that done as well!

Joe
[/quote]

[Greasecar]

Joe-
Do you have any old photos of what your TDI engine looked like inside when you goti before cleaning it for re-build, I want to see how mine stacks up for condition.  Mine has about 60k on it and I am trying to decide whether it is worth taking apart the bottom end or just putting it back together since it looks clean to me.

The main reason I was planning on using the MK 4 dash is because I have it and it almost seems that pulling the whole harness with it for the rabbit may be easier than a whole bunch of cutting and pasting Frankenstein style.  It is pretty large for the application though.  If anyone knows of detailed threads showing how others have done it I would love to see.

I saw in your build thread that you sourced Corrado cable shift boxes.  I have my Golf box but the ends of the cables will need to be replaced.  Is it possible to put shorter Corrado cables into the mk 4 box you think or should I just ditch it and go with the Corrado or A 3 box because it will fit better?

For the mounts; if there are DXF files out there or evengeneral dimensions we can probably work with them.  For stuff like that it always takes longer to figure out what to make than to actually make it so if the figuring out is already done and known to work we should be ablt to whip it up pretty quick.