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Thinking of buying a 1983 Mercedes 300D
by
jtanguay
on 13 Aug, 2007 19:38
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Anyone have any reasons why I shouldn't??? the car has 215xxxkm's on it, and when cold started after sitting for about a week (probably 20-21C outside, it was approx 11am) and quite a bit of white smoke was coming out of the exhaust, and even from the engine cabin... now that right there tells me the exhaust downpipe is probably on its way out, or the manifold is cracked, and that one or two of the injectors could use a rebuild.
autopartsonlinecanada lists the merc injectors for $90 each + $15 core. so it would work out to around $500 or so with tax (pretty expensive, but it would have to be done), and also the lifter shims will have to be done.
one thing that really puts me off is that under the hood i discovered that this motor has EGR... I can only imaging what the intake looks like :shock:
other than that the tranny shifts pretty good, but i will flush and put in a good additive like lucas (any objections to that???) and the motor does have considerable power. the owner took me for a spin and while doing a left turn he gave it a little bit and the rear tires broke loose and started to spin out :shock:. the car easily went 140km/h on the highway and is rock solid!!! i'm sold on that aspect.
I really just want to hear of some horror stories on these motors. blown turbo's, motor issues, etc. suspension problems down the road.. the steering is just a tad loose, but if its anything like my old golf, it shouldn't be much of an issue. i don't want to buy this car and get hosed with too costly of repairs. it does have new brakes and tires (which is easily $1000 worth of work done right there!).
now here's the reason for getting the car. i need a pack mule. and this thing with a hitch would be a killer combo for towing hauling with the combination of a tranny cooler, and possibly bigger oil cooler. I have found an abundance of veggie oil from local restaurants in my area, and i've been reading up on people converting these cars, and it seems that the inline pump really likes to run on Veg (and also doesn't seem to be prone to ULSD leaks)
thanks in advance for ANY input anyone can give me!!!
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#1
by
MacGyver
on 14 Aug, 2007 11:11
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For injectors, could Red Rotors or Smog help you out cheaper? Might be worthwhile to ask.
For other parts, Brian Harrison (
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/roseland/index.htm ) deals mainly VW but buys through Altrom so should be able to get you decent pricing on anything you have a pt# for.
Egr shouldn't mean TDI-style intake plugging issues, the Mercedes should have a CCV filter...?
Even if a manifold cleaning is necessary, should be a simple matter to disconnect the EGR to eliminate future issues, not like you'll be warring with a computer :lol:
I'm not personally a big fan of ATF additives, but a flush for unknown age of fluid is a great idea. Change the rear diff, PS, brake fluid and antifreeze while you're at it for added peace of mind, good pm for 24yr old car.
The only issues I can think of off the top is the vaccuum control lines developing age-related leaks and being a bit of a PITA to chase down, and can't remember which model but the one with the catalyst before the turbo, make sure it's gone. Apparently they disintigrate & grenade the turbos, but should all have been removed via warranty recalls.
Definitely a good choice for veggie burner, run cheap as dirt.
Other than that I have a list of MB forums at home I'll post if I can find them.
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#2
by
jtanguay
on 14 Aug, 2007 13:07
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i'm probably going to talk the guy down in price a bit to offset the new injectors.
i've heard of some veggie injectors that flow more fuel, but that was only for VW, and the merc nozzles already blow quite a bit of fuel (obviously for a 3.0 litre beast!)
looks pretty good, and is a cold war car too!!! :lol:
i've had a lot of good experience using the lucas tranny additive. cars that would normally 'shudder' or have bad shifting characteristics; had them flushed and added the lucas, the shudder and hard shifting was gone, but you could still feel it very little.. the permanent damage had been done, but this stuff helps prevent further damage.
didn't even think of the rear diff! i'll have to get me a merc bentley!
thanks!!!
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#3
by
jtanguay
on 16 Aug, 2007 10:23
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well car is sold. I didn't get it, but i will be looking at some of the southern states maybe for a good rust free one.
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#4
by
houseofdiesel
on 16 Aug, 2007 13:24
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I hope you like working on cars all the time...
I have lots of experience with the older benz's my Dad managed a million kms on his in 20 years. They are bullet proof however very few were maintained, even today. They are fast cars when running correctly and should have over 400psi compression, but most are worn out, have no power when cold and barely start. Do a compression test, these cars do not start when parked outside in the winter, block heater or not big problems compared with VWs (imagine 8 L of glue in the oil pan, not 4). If you don't have 400psi it will not start in the winter. Turbos were never an issue unless the air cleaner was neglected (not just the filter but the mounts/intake hose etc), they run 6-7 psi but 8 is factory and they can handle 14 fine. Valves need adjusting every year (not shims, just two wrenches), injectors are cheap tips run $30-40 each. Oil leaks are always a concern due to blow by and neglect, it can be a big task to make one leak free trust me on that one...
Timing chain needs replacing every decade or so, seen lots of them break and massive engine failures, these motors cost about twice what a vw costs to rebuild, pistons and sleeves are nearly a grand. Timing is also critical to performance, chain stretch/cam timing/pump timing etc.
Inj pumps are great for veg oil, lubed by motor oil not fuel. They have internal adjustments only and require recalibration on a test bench every decade or so, otherwise no power and idle shakes etc.
major problems with the car were the climate control system, a/c, vacuum system (locks/climate control/pump stop solenoid)
Transmissions are a weak point, not like a domestic minivan but after 20+years most of them flare between shifts and take time to engage. Very expensive and few know how to rebuild ($2500 range from dealer). I love the autos though, predictable and last forever if maintained (few ever changed the fluid), but very rev happy on the highway they need a gas rear diff installed to get the fuel economy.
I am currently intercooling, Giles recalibrated a pump for me, no waste gate yet and trying to get one performing so that it will atleast stay with traffic, I hate all the people automatically passing when they see the turbo diesel badge on the trunk, I want to surprise em when needed...so far 14 psi boost but not enough fuel, hopefully his pump work will do the trick. It is fun waving the tail out on turns at intersections, really surprises people behind you that an old tank can out handle them, very easy to drive very hard and wonderful brakes.
One last thing about the older benz's RUST, the floors are a work of art, many layers of steel (not just one like a VW), lots of nooks and crannys for salt to hide, rockers too, they are a bodyman's nightmare. Lots of work to restore one, many many thousands involved in the under carriage. Don't get one that was cheaply patched underneath, look carefully at the jacking points/rockers etc.
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#5
by
jtanguay
on 17 Aug, 2007 18:38
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i will take all that advice into consideration. Thanks!
i've just come to the conclusion that the car was in rough shape to buy it.
i will be saving money up in case i come across one that is in excellent shape. most likely i will have to take a plane down to Texas and drive it home. Has anyone done that? do i need a temp permit for each state i traverse?
some of the benz in the lower states are in superb condition. would almost feel bad for bringing it up here in this salty environment.
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#6
by
Slave2School
on 17 Aug, 2007 18:46
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Yes, salt sucks. A mercedes wagon turbo diesel would be the ultimate family/camping/hauling mobile. I'd love one of them, the golf would fit in the back
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#7
by
jtanguay
on 17 Aug, 2007 20:31
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Yes, salt sucks. A mercedes wagon turbo diesel would be the ultimate family/camping/hauling mobile. I'd love one of them, the golf would fit in the back
a wagon might be a good idea... i don't really like the looks of the wagons, but they are indeed more practical for what i intend on using it for.
imagine all the storage for veg in the back!!! :lol:
i also plan on installing a very large insulated tank in the rear to store hot engine coolant in, and a small circulating pump. If i can keep the coolant hot for 8-10 hrs, i'd be happy as it would virtually eliminate cold starts.
another part of the plan would be to buy a small trailer and make it my veg processing plant (small pump, filters, and a storing tank, etc) so i can drive around and grab up the oil while burning it, and then store it somewhere.
i wish i had more cash, but i've stretched myself a bit far... this project will have to sit on the backburner for a little while longer.
just by curiosity, would anyone know the max towable limit for a merc auto tranny? (serious tranny cooler, and a good tranny additive)
thanks!
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#8
by
bigblockchev
on 17 Aug, 2007 23:54
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JT just thought I would jump in with some thoughts. I chose to pick up a 91 300D from Japan for my wife. It has a 3L 6cyl turbodiesel in it, quite peppy and civilized. I looked into the older 300D's but several things stood out as very common problems. The auto trans will go once in the life of the vehicle either before you buy or after. If it takes more than a couple of seconds to shift into reverse after you move the lever walk away. If the ac doesn't work there are a million vacuum lines and pots which all tend to leak somewhat, Everything in the car is vacuum controlled so if there are leaks the doors won't lock and the car won't shut off. It is an ongoing problem to fix these and they don't stay fixed. If the engine has a million zillion miles it will blowby enough to blow lots of fumes out the oil filler cap if you loosen it off. There are good descriptions of the degree of this on the mercedes forums such as this one
http://www.mercedesforum.com/forumid_211/tt.htmI suggest that you find a couple of local cars and test drive them so you get an idea of what to expect. They are probably the absolute best car to run on WVO or Biodiesel as the cast iron head and block wear forever. Teh rest of the car is no better than the gas cars so if there are lots of miles there will be continuing maintenance issues. Most of the cars are way overpriced for the condition that they are in so be careful. The 300SD is the big 126 body style and quite heavy. The 300D is the 123 body style and is somewhat lighter so somewhat quicker. There are quite a few of these cars here on the West coast but 98% of them have lots of kms some rust and are still overpriced. Don't buy a nonturbo car or you will hate yourself, just toooooo slow. And ditto for everything Houseofdiesel put in .Just my thoughts on your situation. Cheers Dan
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#9
by
nokivasara
on 20 Aug, 2007 12:36
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I love old mercs! At the moment I have a 2dr Coupé -72, itīs a 6-cyl gasser, but Iīve had two diesels in the past.
Iīve read somewhere that thereīs nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes and thatīs true, donīt buy the first one you find!
I had an 220D -71 and thatīs a bulletproof and pretty simple constuction, but they are really tidious to drive, about 60hp in a car that outweighs most vessels.
The other diesel I had was a W201-body 190 with a 250D n/a-engine, 90hp and GREAT mileage, better than my Passat :shock: These newer benzīs has a bit more advanced rear suspension set up, with a bunch of bushings that needs to be changed (usually not done), but otherwise they really are great cars that runs smoothly and quietly for miles and miles and miles.
I also had a 300-24 TE -92, a stationwagon with a 24valve inline 6 and 220hp, that was truly an amazing car...
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#10
by
OM617
on 09 Sep, 2007 13:53
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The Mercedes' are terrible for waste veggie oil conversions, as are all diesels.
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#11
by
jtanguay
on 09 Sep, 2007 15:05
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The Mercedes' are terrible for waste veggie oil conversions, as are all diesels.
using an inline pump, the pump is lubricated by the engine oil and not the veggie. i'm sure if the veggie was horrible it could be a problem, but i would say that its far better to run veggie on an inline pump than a VE pump and most will agree.
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#12
by
clbanman
on 12 Sep, 2007 08:35
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#13
by
jtanguay
on 12 Sep, 2007 09:40
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Ready to drive on FREE used cooking oil! NO CARBON DIOXIDE !!!
umm... i thought burning any kind of fuel emits some amount of carbon dioxide???
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#14
by
bigblockchev
on 12 Sep, 2007 20:12
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If you watch the various forums the vegi guys are all complaining about how cold fuel broke their IP, the Biodiesel guys complain about fuel hoses leaking and seals leaking so they have to replace them with viton. Which would you rather fix. I am biased since I make BD but the older 5cyl Mercs with cast iron heads are probably the best engines in the world to run on vegi since they are the toughest in my opinion. Cheers Dan