VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Helliouse on May 11, 2007, 02:57:41 pm
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Hello all,
I have read quite a few posts now, and well am getting tired of reading posts that lead to dead ends, or stop getting updated.
So what I am hoping to do here is, one post my project, two make a reference for everyone else, or develop full guilds to help others.
With that said, my overall goal for my TD is to be a good strong daily driver. I am currently driving a F150 5.4l, with a few basic things added to it. i.e. Chip, headers, etc.
Needless to say, when I first got in to my 1.6TD I was a little disappointed, not that I ever expected much from it. But I have drove both my Mom and sisters Jetta TDI's. Both very new, 05, and 06 respectively. So I have to admit I was thinking that I would get that kind of fun torque power. Not the dead, me on a petal bike, kind of torque I found.
After the test drive, and looking at it, I started to do research in to getting a little more ponies under the hood, and of course better Fuel millage. I am of course thinking, 1990, there should be something out there for this. Check around, and find nothing search online, don't find anything. Think oh well I can live with it, gasoline prices are too high to keep running my pickup.
A few weeks before i buy is i find this form, more especially Malone's post on his Jetta. This gets me very exited. As I love diesel power/fuel millage, from driving pickups to semi's. So I get excited about buying this car. Buy the car: 1990 Jetta Diesel 4dr 1.6l TD 300000km and start my tuning.
FYI: it is a KKK Turbo guessing a k24
What I have done so far:
Boost Gauge
disabled the Waste-gate
Edit: Now have gov. Mod jimfoo - Thanks for the tip. Will try it!
In the works:
EGT
Gauge mounting!
Downpipe
exhaust
Intercooler
Finally my questions!
Note: if for any of these there are posts, with good, relative, information please just post a link, thank you.
I would like some Fuel millage information on these cars after they have been modified, from No giles pump, giles pump, to twin turbo etc.
burn_your_money - Thanks for the post - Mileage - I have a stock engine with 448xxx kms and I get 900+ kms to a tank ($50 at current prices)
Should I look at refreshing the Motor (300 000km all original, turbo rebuld before I bought)? i.e. new head gasket, new rings etc.
Does the 1.9l head improve performance? If so how much?
Has any one looked at fabing a Electronic Fuel Injection system for this car?
Some what answered. redrotors - do you have any info on this?
Has any one build a custom intake manifold and exhaust manifold? If some one has, Was it a success? What would you do different?
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7676 $475-375 CAD
For an Intercooler, has any one other then Malone, try a water/air? how success full was it? what did it cost in the end? Was it worth the effort?
What Intercooler would you recommend, size, or from what model car?
Has any one tried to Ceramic coat the turbine side of thier turbo (Exhaust side if I have it wrong)?
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8077
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7017 - some info. on Ceramic Coating
Has anyone done a disk brake conversion on the rear wheels? If so how?
Answered - Kredits to burn_your_money & Mk2Fanatic. Some good info. Passat (sp) 92-94 has parts.
Change out to a Serpentine belt drive, can it be done? if so How?
Answered - Kredits again to Mk2Fanatic & burn_your_money. Would like more detail on the conversion
I would like to get a quicker spool time, what turbo should I look for, and how much should i expect to pay?
VNT seems popular, would like twin, just seems so much cooler! :twisted: libbybapa - Thanks for you link. I will have to study your setup. VNT might be easier, and cheaper, still looking into it.
Does anyone have info. in layman's terms for optimal CFM on the kkk (k24,k14) and Gerrets, and what rpm and pressure?
Boost Maps, or how to set one up with a tool. I think the FAQ section has info. on this, just need more knowledge on Turbo maps :)
What cold air intake system do you guys use? custom fab one? What air filter do you use?
For the Govern Mod, I read some where to shim the Intermediate, and gov spring, to get better drive-ability. Is this true? I might try it depending on how hard it is to take the pump apart.
Did this but ran in to some trouble. http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7592 For more information, not my post.
The timing advance Mod posted by...damn can't find it. It involved machining out a cover to increase the piston movement. Any update on it?
Thank you for any answers in advance, in the mean time I will keep cruzing the form!
Does any one have a spare 1.6TD intake manifold, and a Exhaust manifold? For sale or other wise, i just need the mounting plate specs, i.e. exhaust hole sizes\locations, bolt sizes\locations. I would use mine but I don't want to have my car down that long.
Thanks again
Brad.
EDIT - Spelling, marked questions answered
07/05/23 - EDIT updated again the answers
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You should post your location in your profile.
I have a few spare manifolds
To answer a few questions, rear disks - mk2 GLIs had discs. its a stud axle, e-brake cable and maybe MC swap.
Mileage - I have a stock engine with 448xxx kms and I get 900+ kms to a tank ($50 at current prices)
The 1.9 Head will bolt on no problem, it will lower your compression so winter starting may be a problem.
I believe redrotors fabbed up some sort of EFI for the car? maybe I'm wrong
Dave at PP has custom DPs, Cams, exhaust and intake manifolds. I forget his website, his username is 935racer. He is in BC
Serp setup can be done using parts from an AAZ or possibly a mk3 gasser
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One of the main reasons the new TDI's feel so much more fun to drive is their turbos. If you want to have boost lower down in the rpm range you will need to go with a VNT turbo. These turbos kick in at lower rpms and give that nice usable pull through a wider rpm range due to the vanes effectively making the turbo "bigger" in the high rpm range.
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mk2 GLI, how hard to find parts?
What kind of millage with some tuning?
I knew the head would bolt up, but I am more worried about flow. The heads are designed for piston speeds, intakes, etc. Will the swap be worth it? Millage/HP wise?
I was thinking of doing it but i would need all the timing information on the engine. Air to Fuel ratios, and what nots.
I have seen PP, though I didn't see anything for intakes and exhausts, only DP's
Serp. - i get it belt! is it just a pulley swap?
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RallyDiesel - What would be more financially feasible, VNT or twin?
I am not worried about fabricating anything to make a twin work. I am just worried about cost.
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You need to search for posts by 935racer, check the vendors section.
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mk2 GLI, how hard to find parts?
What kind of millage with some tuning?
I knew the head would bolt up, but I am more worried about flow. The heads are designed for piston speeds, intakes, etc. Will the swap be worth it? Millage/HP wise?
I was thinking of doing it but i would need all the timing information on the engine. Air to Fuel ratios, and what nots.
I have seen PP, though I didn't see anything for intakes and exhausts, only DP's
Serp. - i get it belt! is it just a pulley swap?
Easiest way to do rear disc and the serp stuff would be to find a donor passat TD(90-94) in the wrecking yard and strip out the serp belt stuff and the rear disc brake stuff. The parts will bolt on in place of the stock, and use mk2 gti rear ebrake cables or GLI ebrake cables. I paid 400 for a running donor with a rotted body (389000km), and scavenged the motor trans, rear brake stuff, as well as the complete front suspension/suspension(all bolt on for the mk2 and gives you larger ball joints and 100mm axles as opposed to stock 90mm)
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After driving the VNT Quantum for the last week, I honestly would not even consider EVER using a conventional wastegated turbocharger on any diesel I intended on keeping.
Thats good to hear. Now i must get mine going.
The turbos(VNT) are quite easily to come by right now for a fairly reasonable price.
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Hello, all.
Sorry for no updates. I finished my gov. mod and have a return to idle problem I am guessing that my spring may have fallen off.
I plan on tearing into it again tonight, I will take pictures of the process. Seeming the pic's I have found on here to be very blury.
Did I notice anything with the mod. not really but i was worried with the idle not returning to try it out. I think I might put a larger spacer in the Intermediat spring. I will post a Pick of what i got right now for comments.
As to the VNT vs. twin
What I want to see with my car is 5lb boost at idle, and a top end boost of 35-45 ish lbs.
Now can a VNT do this?
That is why i am looking at twin, I belive that a twin setup can achieve this. I have seen a twin setup and it didn't look that hard. A VNT set up you have to get the vains to close and open. I checked out your post libbyapa. And I looked not to bad to setup.
I might be dreaming with a 5lb boost at idle, and I accept that, but I would like to see significant boost at the lower RPM's all the way up.
Another question who makes a good tack, and does any one have some instructions on seting it up on a diesel?
Thanks agian!
Brad.
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Hello, all.
Sorry for no updates. I finished my gov. mod and have a return to idle problem I am guessing that my spring may have fallen off.
As to the VNT vs. twin
What I want to see with my car is 5lb boost at idle, and a top end boost of 35-45 ish lbs.
Now can a VNT do this?
I might be dreaming with a 5lb boost at idle, and I accept that, but I would like to see significant boost at the lower RPM's all the way up.
Thanks agian!
Brad.
After my governor mod, I had to unscrew the residual fuel screw a bit as my idle would start increasing as well. You might try that first. I think 5 lbs boost at idle is more of a bad dream, as I imagine you would have terrible surge with a turbo that operated the way you want. I think a VNT would give you the best low end response however.
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Jimfoo
I guess what i mean with the boost is good strong low end boost.
I am just skeptical of the VNT is the setup. I have a feeling that it wouldn't be to hard to do twin. Seeming I have seen pictures of the setup.
If only I had a machine shop to do my own milling...then it would be fun!
Oh well leave that to dreams and winning the lotto!
What are some of the turbo models that are VNT?
Does anyone else have information on any of they other question?
ie. Has any one tried to Cermaic coat the turbine side of thier turbo (Exhaust side if I have it wrong)?
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Motometer makes a great tach for the mk2. It came stock on a fair few cars. I have a couple for sale actually
I think 5psi at idle would not be a good thing, but for low down boost and hi end effecient boost I think a VNT would be the best bet
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5 psi at idle seems to be a good way to bend rods... but then again better breathing for the engine might be okay...
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Hello, all.
Sorry for no updates. I finished my gov. mod and have a return to idle problem I am guessing that my spring may have fallen off.
I plan on tearing into it again tonight, I will take pictures of the process. Seeming the pic's I have found on here to be very blury.
Did I notice anything with the mod. not really but i was worried with the idle not returning to try it out. I think I might put a larger spacer in the Intermediat spring. I will post a Pick of what i got right now for comments.
As to the VNT vs. twin
What I want to see with my car is 5lb boost at idle, and a top end boost of 35-45 ish lbs.
Now can a VNT do this?
That is why i am looking at twin, I belive that a twin setup can achieve this. I have seen a twin setup and it didn't look that hard. A VNT set up you have to get the vains to close and open. I checked out your post libbyapa. And I looked not to bad to setup.
I might be dreaming with a 5lb boost at idle, and I accept that, but I would like to see significant boost at the lower RPM's all the way up.
Another question who makes a good tack, and does any one have some instructions on seting it up on a diesel?
Thanks agian!
Brad.
Since you are looking to run 35-45ish psi of boost, you might want to look up posts by a gentleman named Andy2. I suggest doing a search for his name with the words head gasket, or bent rods. :)
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Hello all, again!
Well over May long I played with the IP, trying to get the Gov. mod working. I took some pictures, but haven't had time to put them on my web server to host them.
What I am finding is that at up to half throttle it returns to idle fine, a little slow, but not to bad. as soon as you floor it, it stays there.
Now jimfoo, mentioned turning my residual fuel screw up a bit. Unfortunately when I look at a post that showed this screw, it looked to me to be the screw that adjusted the position of the accelerator pedals idle position. IMO that will have nothing to do with the increase in idle at the higher RPMs.
When I swing by my server tonight I will post the pics and some one will hopefully shed some light on this Residual Fuel Screw! :) Or what I did wrong with my spacer in the intermediate spring.
On another note, I have seen Andy2's pics, http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2538 of his compound setup and it looks fairly easy, and I haven't read through all of his post though. I have read lots saying that this motor can handle the boost though. With ARP bolts and metal HG.
I am leaning more toward the 35lb then the 45lbs. Also I only said 5lb and idle as I was exaggerating, I mean I would like to see quick response, and good high end boost out of what ever setup I use.
It would be nice to see 10-15 lb at 1000 rpm. Though I have no idea what I am getting now as I don't yet have a tach in my car.
I am willing to look at a VNT setup, but I have no idea what turbos are VNT or not. I have looked on Garrett’s website and found nothing, no defining model no. says VNT. I did see a turbo for a 06 Ford Diesel for sale, I think that is a VNT as the new PowerStrokes are running VNT, from what I remember... I am not sure if the 1.6 can flow enough to work it though.
Anyway, I am still looking for a Intake manifold, and exhaust manifold, either the end plate dimentions, or whole the manifolds. Though all I need are the dimentions. And on that note, I plan on looking into and information on tuned headers for turbos, if any one knows anything on it I invite comments!
Look forward to your replies!
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if you read to book i posted in the faq zone by chapter 3: selecting a turbocharger you see how un-easy it is
Sometimes. An engine with flow capiblities greater than 300cfm (roughly 180cid) can benefit from two turbos. two little turbos can slightly cut turbo lag, as opposed to one large turbo, and allow a better balance of low-speed and top-end boost perfeomance. Over 350cid, twin turbos become a virtual necessity. do not accept the idea that twin tubos are inherently more powerfull, as too many other factors are involved.
single - vnt - bi - twin, i dont know it, i'm going for vnt right now, but its not the idea from the expert
my post realy dont make sense, isnt? :P
Greetz, Benjamin
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A VNT from a truck would be way too big. Look for a VNT 15, most commonly found on VW PD 100s.
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Hello all, again!
Well over May long I played with the IP, trying to get the Gov. mod
What I am finding is that at up to half throttle it returns to idle fine, a little slow, but not to bad. as soon as you floor it, it stays there.
Now jimfoo, mentioned turning my residual fuel screw up a bit. Unfortunately when I look at a post that showed this screw, it looked to me to be the screw that adjusted the position of the accelerator pedals idle position. IMO that will have nothing to do with the increase in idle at the higher RPMs.
Actually, I said I had to unscrew mine a little, and yes, that is the screw. Does the throttle lever stick any?
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Perhaps I am having a long day, or the pollen is giving me a headache.
Anyway here goes, I am always interested in reading other peoples posts. There is a lot I dont know, I will be the first to admit it. Perhaps you have a much greater diesel or mechanical base of information than I do. It kind of irks me to read about how you are tired of reading dead end post, or posts that don't get updated. "Just find me the answer and post the link"-paraphrase. Some of those posts may be mine. I apoligize if some have dead ended or have not been updated. I am busy with raising 3 small kids and working a hectic full time job. I log on here because it is fun and I like talking with the people here. As a value added benefit, there is a HUGE wealth of information in past posts, and in the people who use this site. If you want to run way big boost, I think that kicks ass, really. I did too. I spent months searching old posts and asking questions from people here. Who has done this, what kind of set-up did you use, etc. I pretty much learned that big boost costs big money and comes with big problems. None of this appears easy to me. If you think Andy2's twin turbo setup is easy, I again think that is great. I look forward to reading your posts on the subject. I will read them with the same intent as I do others, to gain some knowledge, see if it is feasable and to daydream a bit about what I think is cool. Perhaps you can contact him and see if might be able to offer some help with his HG problem?
Knowledge after all is meant to be shared. On the flip side there is always knowledge to be gained. Neither of us would be posting here if we did not have similar interests. I think it is great people here have figured out through lots of trial and error, time, money, and years of posting and wrench turning how to make diesels finally kick ass.
I guess some of the posts just struck me the wrong way, If I am out of line, I apologize.
Jim
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Subsonic
Sorry if I ticked you off. I guess my iritation comes from days of reading and in the end finding out nothing at all. I do have no problem searching the posts. But I have always been of the opinion that if some one else has the knowledge, or knows where to look why spend weeks wasting my time. I am more then willing to post a link or point someone in the right direction if i know it.
I didn't mean to say "Find me the answer and post the link" I ment if you know the post that has an answer, ie you just finished reading it, got it favorited etc, then please post it. As i am sure you don't like running in circles too.
I also appreciate the fact that tons of people have spent tons of time and money and fille this form with tons of information. As agian like you I unfortunalty don't have the time or the resorces to to this. Starting a family and tring to get a house ready for it, along with a job take a lot of your time! So I appreciate everyones postion on this.
And I finaly stole some time and skimed through Andy2's post on his problems. So I will try to keep my self updated on it.
I also am trying to be diligent and updating my initial post on what knowledge i have gained and answering my own questions, sometimes i fail to update... :(
I guess some of my problem is I don't have a ton of mech experiance to draw on or and knowledge on where to start looking. mind you I try!
I guess I am sorry to all that have read thinking that is what i want. It isn't I just want some help, a freindly point in the right direction, but please don't think I am sitting here waiting for you guys to post all the answers, and not looking my self.
I just love to work with this stuff, wish I would have taken it instead of the schooling I did take. But that is another story! I was just looking for some help. I am sorry if I offened you. and any one else.
About Andy2's problem it is deffinetly very discuraging to my daydream! As I read in a few posts that the 1.9 HG would hold out at that kind of presure. Maybe no one tried it, and Andy2 finally tested it.
Oh well i look forward to reading some more, and figuring out what I can do with my car!
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Jimfoo,
No not at all, that is what is getting me. This aft, i sat down with a coworker, and we talked about it. I am thinking a Stiffer spring instead of shiming might help, or a spring between the case that holds the gov. and intermediat spring might help. as you let off the throttle it would force the fueling lever (not tech term) back to the idle possition. It is a confusing problem to say the least.
I think I need to get more info. on the workings of the IP. I am still looking for a manual for it. I seen a few links but didn't have time to look, plus I have no idea what model my pump is. :(
when i get to where my server is i will post the pics.
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If it came off a vw 1.6td it should be a bosch VE. You can take the number off it, it usually starts with 0 460 xxx xxx
This link will tell you how to decifer
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7233&highlight=
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Subsonic,
Thanks, read that post a while ago. have to figure out where that ID plate is.
I have found a Turbo of a Mercede Benz 270 CDi, and am not sure if it is a VNT, the page doesn't say if it is or isn't. I know it has a .45 A/R, it isn't a bad price.
I am thinking that, from what I have read (that I remember), a higher number might be better, like .5-.6 ish area. Am I right?
Also I have turned my pump up, and adjusted the idle, throttle position, etc. to get the most movement, and most fueling out of it. But it seems to be useing more diesel then it should, IMO.
I guess what I should be asking is, should I be looking at refreshing this motor? +300 000km all original except a Trubo rebuild. Just thinking that maybe this might be my problem...
Sorry no Pics yet, haven't made it to where my server is...to much on the go. :(
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Pictures of the Pump are in!
Here are pictures of my pump and me modding. I am getting a run away revving problem at high RPMs.
I hope some one has some tips, or hints on what i did wrong if anything, and what i can try to make it work.
Warning: these are not resized. 2mb/picture
http://zdog.ath.cx/graphics/VWJetta/top.jpg
http://zdog.ath.cx/graphics/VWJetta/back.jpg
http://zdog.ath.cx/graphics/VWJetta/DriverSide.jpg
http://zdog.ath.cx/graphics/VWJetta/top_coveroff.jpg
http://zdog.ath.cx/graphics/VWJetta/top_coveroff2.jpg
http://zdog.ath.cx/graphics/VWJetta/Gov_Spring1.jpg
http://zdog.ath.cx/graphics/VWJetta/Gov_Spring2.jpg
http://zdog.ath.cx/graphics/VWJetta/Gov_Spring3.jpg
http://zdog.ath.cx/graphics/VWJetta/Front.jpg
http://zdog.ath.cx/graphics/VWJetta/Cover.jpg
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holy those are some big pics dude!!!