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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: rallydiesel on April 08, 2007, 09:50:36 am
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When you are shimming the intermediate spring, do you want to compress the main spring or keep it at the original position? I have read you want to preload the main by 1/4". But is that compared to the relaxed position or the original position when it's in the holder?
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1/4" in the holder, and yes this will compress the main spring a little bit.
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Thanks!
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why is it needed to have more preload on the main spring?
i thought you only need to shim the intermediate, is that the reason why i dont talk about a big difrence like the other guys do?
Greetz, Benjamin
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The main spring determines when the engine will cut-off at high RPM, it is only that it which should be hardened or shim, the intermediate spring is already completely compressed around 2000rpm ( that depend of the model of pump), if you put it harder the intermediate spring, not only that gives absolutely anything, the RPM will be hard to control at low RPM, the car will make shudder in first and second gear at 1/4 throttle, and the high RPM cut off will not be changed.
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So you are saying keep the intermediate spring and shim the main spring 1/4"? :?: :?:
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(http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4087/im001606jo8.th.jpg) (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im001606jo8.jpg)
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Now I'm confused too. In the governor mod post in the FAQ, it says to remove the intermediate spring and replace it with a shim instead. The other version talks about shimming the main spring a little, but also removing the intermediate spring and replacing it with a shim. My understanding was that the intermediate shim delayed the slowing of fuel delivery until the 4-4.5k rpm range, and shimming the main spring raised the max rpm for fueling.
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I don't want to argue with named tintin as he has built far more pumps then I, but I personally have never had the problem with shuddering, or low rpm control (well i don't know about the last one as it is rarley in the low rpm's... :lol: ) But I have shimmed several pumps by removing the intermediate spring and shimming the main spring.
After looking at his picture though, I am going to use that method from now on. As I may have not noticed any shuddering, but named tintin's way is still probably better for driving anyway.
That pic needs to be in the FAQ.
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sooner or later i am going to do the governor mod...
i want to rev to 5500 but with fuel enough to go there still making HP...
is it possible to mod the governor to work that way?
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(http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4087/im001606jo8.th.jpg) (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im001606jo8.jpg)
you did nothing with the intermediate, only the main...
The FAQ says to shim the intermediate.
i dont know it anymore :shock: what to do, or not :cry:
Greetz, Benjamin
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Is the third (idle?) spring missing for any reason? So all tintin did was add a shim to the main spring, right? I will try that way first and see how it goes.
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I do not have a problem either for the shudder :lol: :lol: , I dit not employ the exactly good expression.
For example: When you drive in the dense traffic the morning to go to work, with to hard or Without intermediate spring, it's difficult to drive in first and second gear at low rpm, because the accelerator is very sensitive, at the momnet that you pusch the accelerator , the car accelerates quickly, and it's very hard to maintains a regular RPM, some time that made of the shudder, but, with normal intermediate spring, the accelerator is much softer, and the RPM is controlled, the intermediate spring govern the rpm at fixed point, over 2200 -2800RPM, the intermediate is fully compressed, at the moment, it's the main spring wich enters in play.
I tested different set-up of spring and it is what I could observe, when I built a pump, some time I need to dismount the top of the pump several times for balancing the 3 springs correctly, I know the effect of each spring if I hardened or softened one or the other.
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Is the third (idle?) spring missing for any reason?
i think its stock, i rebuilded a pump like this one also, the idle spring is on a difrent location.
so, wich spring to disable the feul cut? the intermediate shimmed, the main with more preload or the 2?????????
Greetz, Benjamin
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The main spring is what control's the final cut of the fuel. We have all just approched it slightly different.
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Well, if Named TinTin's way does the same thing with better driveability, then some one should put that in the FAQ, probably at the beginning of the governor mod thread, IMHO.
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and for my question?
not to raise the rev limiter too much and have "all2 fuel to that point?
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I have another related question.
I tried the max fuel adjustment today and according to the FAQ, I was supposed to back the idle stop screw right out and then adjust the max fuel screw so I had an idle at around 1200 rpm. Well, I did this and I had some nice uncontrollable high rpm runaway. Only way I could get the rpms to drop was to bog it in a high gear or turn off the engine. I also had MAJOR smoke.
I later backed off on the max fuel screw until I didn't get the runaway and then adjusted the idle stop screw to about 1200 rpm.
I just want to know, what causes the out of control revving. It seemed once I hit a certain rpm the revs started to climb uncontrollably. I thought the governor was supposed to prevent this? Has this car already had the governor mod done to it? I haven't cracked open the IP yet.
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the faq says that too much smoke = bad... keep an eye on it.
only adjust your fuel screw 1/4 turns and make note of how many you have done so you can always return to normal. there is a point at which if you unscrew too much that the motor will want to runaway.
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i have unscrew too much that the motor runaway but know i dont even know how much to srew it in ... i just dont know what to do my car just wont even start...please help
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I had that problem. I thought I had the runaway under control but then I had trouble starting. After quite a bit of cranking, the engine started and I turned the screw in some more and made sure there was NO runaway even when running hot. It seemed the engine was not getting fuel for some reason. Maybe turning the fuel screw out too much lets air in after sitting for a few hours?
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My goveror looks like this:
(http://fatali.servebeer.com/~mrcrossfire/Audi/saadin/saadinjalkeen.jpg)
The upper one. :)
Revs 6500 without load, and is easy to drive. The breathing of the engine is not good enough, so I don't get much power after 4500. My engine is AAZ with 1.6td pump and kkk k24.
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what about the driveability? does it shudder at all in 1st or 2nd?
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so I don't get much power after 4500
it's normal, these diesel engine do not have much power after 4200-4300rpm (include TDI)
A small shim on the main spring like the pic that I showed and it is perfect, that gives anything of exaggerates, it will not go more.
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I completely delete the intermediate spring and shim the main spring by about 2mm, revs to 6500 rpm and never had any shudder issues, I've done it several times as well.
These engines can make plenty of power higher up in the rpm range with some good head porting and manifolds.
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No shuddering or anything abnormal even at lower gears. Of course the accelerator pedal is more sensitive, more like a gasser feel. Only "problem" is that it is difficult to maintain steady rpm without load. Idle is fine, but if I press the acc. pedal on neutral gear, the revs keep climbing even if the pedal is held steady. But I don't see that as a big issue.
I am sure that good power would be produced on the higher revs, if the stock crappy manifolds are replaced with something proper, head porting, a bigger turbo etc.
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Of course the accelerator pedal is more sensitive....................... Only "problem" is that it is difficult to maintain steady rpm without load. Idle is fine, but if I press the acc. pedal on neutral gear, the revs keep climbing even if the pedal is held steady. But I don't see that as a big issue.
It's exactly the thing which I mentioned above. I rarely worked with small 9mm, that does not interest me, but, sure thing, with 11 and 12mm it really does not go well if you removes the intermediate spring, the symptom that you describe, is amplified much more, that gives anything to remove it, and it is well to keep it.
Made what you want, it goes nevertheless, I do not write that to be obstinated me, I write only that because I tested it myself and it is what I noted.
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(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_3032.jpg)
This is the one I modded a while ago, it's not installed yet. I followed the DIY thread on here. We'll see how it goes once installed. If something's wrong it's a 10min job to fix.
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Black Smokin' Diesel I shimmed mine that much and it ws way to much. It overfueled it way to much to early.
It seems get rid of the intermediate spring then shim the main spring just a little with 2 small washers works the best for me.
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Black Smokin' Diesel I shimmed mine that much and it ws way to much. It overfueled it way to much to early.
It seems get rid of the intermediate spring then shim the main spring just a little with 2 small washers works the best for me.
Hmmm I think I'll try something thinner to shim the main spring then.
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Named Tintin: Yeah, that's propably the case with a larger head. Even with 9mm head it feels that it is just on the "edge". I think no more shimming could be possible.
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I did Tintin's method. I haven't had a chance to try it because my injector return lines are leaking so much that they would probably fly off if I redlined it. Unfortunately I won't be able to try it until I get new hoses.
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The main spring determines when the engine will cut-off at high RPM, it is only that it which should be hardened or shim, the intermediate spring is already completely compressed around 2000rpm ( that depend of the model of pump), if you put it harder the intermediate spring, not only that gives absolutely anything, the RPM will be hard to control at low RPM, the car will make shudder in first and second gear at 1/4 throttle, and the high RPM cut off will not be changed.
So is that why when not in gear, if I give a little throttle, the engine speeds up a little, then the rpms quickly rise without further pedal movement? I may have to undo my intermediate spring mod, if I can find where I put the spring....