VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: subsonic on February 18, 2007, 05:08:01 pm
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Hi guys,
I just registered and became a member. I have been driving diesels for about 20 years. Mostly VW’s, except for a 5 year stint with Uncle Sam driving a lovely sand colored V8 diesel that he so graciously loaned to me. 1st VW was a 1980 Rabbit deluxe. I bought it off my Father as a teenager. That poor car deserved better! I beat the bejesus out of that car. 10 people in it, loads of firewood, off road, max redline on MULTIPLE occasions, -did you know that a 1980 rabbit can hit 55 in second gear? : ) It finally died from a runaway engine one cold night with 450,000 miles on it. A giant cloud of white smoke and a huge puddle of oil under my oil pan that now looked like swiss cheese. That poor car did its duty and then some. My second diesel is the car I’m still driving. A 1985 Golf GL, 1.6 N.A., mechanical head, 12mm bolts, 5-spd. I bought it from an old man in Savannah GA back in 1999. Odometer said 42,000 miles. Opened the hood and saw what appeared to be a brand new head. Asked the seller about it and was told that the old head had been ruined by a broken timing belt….. The original timing belt!! 14 years old in the high southern heat! He brought it to the dealer and had them install a NEW head. The dealer did the work, but did not have any diesel certified techs on staff. Old fella gets the car back, timing is way off. Hard starting and blowing smoke like crazy. When it fired up, I covered his neighbor’s house, and half the street in smoke. No rust, perfect interior, original bill of sale from the dealer! I paid $1,500.00 for it. I have driven this car for the last 8 years; over this time I have ended up replacing most of the mechanical components as they failed. Bearings, shocks struts, brake lines, cv shafts, ball joints, tie rod ends, exhaust, drums, disc’s, hoses, belts, shift linkage, door locks, clutch, etc. Shortly after I bought it the ODO stopped working, Pain in the ass little gear in the VDO Speedo head. I never fixed it and just kind of estimated mileage. I must have close to 200,000 miles on it now. Last year I blew the head gasket, it wasn’t a overheat issue, it just failed. While the head was off, I brought it to a friend of mine who works in an automotive machine shop. He did a complete rebuild for me. Way less smoke and more power after that. A nice northern New England winter came along and the car became hard to start. Never had this problem before, what gives? I am familiar with operation in the cold, but it just cranked and cranked with no start. PAIN in the ass! Unhappy wife who could not get the car started after working late in the dead of winter. Things look bad for ole blue. Before giving up, I found an old crusty retired vw mechanic who lived in east bum shoot and had a fondness for old diesels. He determined that my IP was not holding pressure and air was somehow leaking in. He installed a very small electric fuel pump between the fuel filter and the IP. When I cycle the glow plugs it also powers on the pump. Problem solved, or at least not so bad. All these little patches have held the car on the road for a while, but my ride is getting tired. I have blow by, oil leaks from multiple locations, IP is still seeping although it runs like a champ on the highway. It will do 75-80 all day long. Getting the occasional 5th gear pop out on the highway. Once every 2-3 months. Tranny has had redline in it for the last couple of years, fluid isn’t low. I have read that this is a problem in this early transmission. I get a little grind going into reverse every once in a while, and I can feel a small grind on speed shifts into second. No grind going into second if I shift normally.
Sooooo……. I am at the point where I am going to need to rub some money on the car to keep it going, and to keep my wife from calling it various names that are not the most flattering. I have been reading through the site for a few months getting the feel of things, and to clue myself in on what mods are doable. I would like to bounce some ideas out to you and get some feed back. I would like to plan this out well before I commit. I will only have enough coin, not to mention goodwill from my wife : ) to get this done once, so I will be hitting you all up for your collective Intel on best practices for the build up so I can hopefully avoid the “ Oh ***! This part is toast now!” scenario.
This will be a daily driver so I need reliability. Compound turbo’s with propane injection and 35 psi of boost with flames shooting out of its ass will probable probably not be a option. Darn!
I am looking for speed and reliability.
My understanding of building speed from what I’ve read here in the GTD forum is:
1. More fuel
2. More air flow in
3. More exhaust flow out
4. More fuel, more fuel, and most importantly, more fuel
5. Perhaps also, various cooling upgrades and an EGT monitor to prevent you from leaving a molten lump of engine block cooking on the highway. :lol:
I would like to move up to a TD.
Question being, 1.6 or 1.9? Kind of chicken or the egg situation. 1.6 is cheaper and has more top end. 1.9 is more expensive but has more on the bottom end. Perhaps the hybrid 1.6 block with the 1.9 head. Low CR and Northern winters may be a problem. I have seen talk here about 1.9 pistons in the 1.6 block. Can the block still be stable with that much of an overbore? I have also read about 1.7 pistons in the 1.6 blocks. Discussion went back and forth as to if the pistons had cut outs for the oil squirters. IIRC, some did and some did not. Benefits discussed included a small bump in compression ratio to help alleviate the drop brought on by the bigger pre-chambers in the 1.9 head. Has any one tried this setup yet? Would there be any concerns about piston height or stroke? I am all for increasing CC’s if possible.
Injection Pump:
The heart of the project. I am planning on sending the unit straight to the Great and Powerful OZ. I’ve read enough posts with high praise for the Giles Super Pump to make this an easy pick.
I do have some questions though. Which pump? 1.9 on a 1.6 or vice versa? Pump setup? I have read about different sizes? 9mm, 10mm, 12mm etc. Not exactly sure what that all entails. What else is there to consider? I know there was a change from manual to electric timing advance-cold start. Are there any other significant differences between pumps between 85 on up till TDI’s came on line? Are any of these better suited for hi perf mods over others? What sort of information will I need to have in advance in order for Giles to tune the pump properly?
Bottom end:
I guess this depends on what sort of set up is chosen i.e.. straight 1.6TD, 1.9TD, hybrid etc..
Basic set-up questions: Crank, Rods, Pistons, Rings, Bearings, Head bolts/Studs etc.
1. Rings-Differences between OEM and total seal? Preference one way or the other?
2. Pistons-I guess Myke_w is the man for pistons. Anyone try the extra slot cut in the top for extra power? Any other tid bits of info for this area?
3. Rods: Am I correct in my understanding that stocks Rods are strong enough unless you start pushing over 120hp?
4. Crank: Any suggestions or proven mods? Knife-edge? Will it affect smoothness of idle? Is the amount of rotating mass removed enough to help spool time? Can any of these motors handle a stroker type mod? Does one exist?
5. Bolts/ Studs: I have seen ARP, Raceware recommended many times. Head studs, Con-Rod bolts, Main set. Anything else? Benefits of these over stock?
6. Oil pump: Is it correct that the pump that came in late 80’s td’s is already upgraded to the larger size? Is there a need to go for higher pressure/ volume?
What else am I missing? Rubber oil pan gasket. , windage tray, block heater, oil-pre-heater, crank scraper-any benefit?
Head:
1. Cam: I read the review of the pass performance cam from the TDI link. Has anything been done like this for the IDI cam, testing or dyno type numbers? How aggressive is it. Does it shift power to the high or low end? Torque changes?
2. HG: General consensus appears to be the metal 1.9 HG
3. Valves: Can you go bigger to increase flow? Any hints in this area?
4. Exhaust ports: I understand they should be opened up as much as possible. I was reading the link about the pre-chambers and ceramic coatings. Someone did a nice cut job on the head and opened it up for all to see. Can it be determined from the cutaway model just how far the porting can go?
5. Ceramic coating: Is it worth it? Has anyone actually done their exhaust valve, port, and pre-chamber? Will this stuff flake off and cause havoc?
6. O-Ring/ Fire ring: Had to call a friend to get an explanation on this one. My basic understanding is it provides extra strength to the HG to prevent failures. Do the block and the head both need to be machined for this mod? My friend thought it was not reliable for the long term though. Thoughts?
7. Lifters: I have heard mechanical was better than hydraulic for high rpm application. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to be changing shims every 20k, and want to go hydraulic. Any concerns or build tips in this area?
8. VC gasket: I plan on going with the rubber one to help prevent leaks.
9. Splash baffle: I understand there is a baffle you can put under the VC that helps reduce oil splash and help prevent oil leaks. Any drawbacks?
What have I missed?
Starter: It’s going. Needs a rebuild. Posts suggest sticking with the old style.
Alternator: Stock or more power? Is it worth messing around with pulley size?
Water pump: Same question.
Fuel filter: I was planning on going to a Racor dual set up. 10 micron and a 2-micron. Flow restriction gauge. See through water collectors. Heater inserts as well, somewhere between 150 watts and 300 watts in each. Is it possible to install anything like this in the trunk, or are there concerns about introducing this into the passenger compartment? Racor makes a gauge that fits on the dashboard with a change filter/ drain water indicator and alarm. Kind of geeky but I dig it.
Turbo: What is max EFFECTIVE boost the KKK-24 can push out? I have read you can go pretty high, but when you push too hard it will start sending your EGT’s into the danger zone. So what is the upper end before you start getting diminishing returns?
I understand there are a host of turbo mods, but those appear to be covered in other posts.
Exhaust: 2.5” down pipe, plus all the way back appears to be the common answer and set-up for best flow.
Exhaust manifold: I guess porting and polishing to match up to the head. Stock or swap? Anything else?
Intake manifold: Big subject. My basic understanding is you want it as open and as even as possible. Do you recommend a stock part or swap in something with better flow?
Intercooler: Looked at prices for new-ouch. The junkyard looks to be calling my name. Any preference between air to air or air to liquid? Could an electric fan be added to help draw air through to help cool? What makes should I be looking in for a really effective unit. I.e. Sabb, Audi, or something larger?
Cold air intake: I have seen one and a two into one set up. Stock location is front right fender well. Does running them to the front end work better? I would be concerned with snow build-up or heavy rains. Are these legitimate concerns?
Injectors / nozzles: Lots and lots of information. Some say no change, just difference between old and new. More fuel at higher pressure is better, but what is the upper end? With all the nozzles I see for sale out there, is there a difference in spray pattern? Are certain spray patterns better suited for 1.9’s or 1.6’s? Many I see don’t actually say what size the nozzle is. I would expect that this would be one of the pieces of information Giles would need to get you the correct pump set up.
Cooling: Stock radiator or bigger? Any change to the thermostat, winter vs. summer?
Fan upgrade? What about the oil cooler. It is my understanding that oil temps get hot as hell during heavy right foot usage. Is there a better cooler than stock. What about location changes for better cooling?
Well, I think that’s about enough for now, wow, I didn’t realize it had gotten this long. I have a line on two complete 1.6td’s right now from the early 90’s; both are Canadian so I don’t have to worry about the itsy bitsy ECO Diesel. May also be able to get 1.9td head, intake and exhaust manifold at the same time, so the Franken motor is a possibility. I look forward to your insight.
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Just got off the phone with the person I may be getting the two 1.6td's from. I thought they would come with kkk's but he said he just checked the tag on the turbo and its a Garret Part# 465 384-5. He also gave me a VW part# off it as well, 068 145 703F.
Anyone know from these #'s which model it may be? One engine is from a 92 jetta, The part number is off the 92. The other is from a late 80's jetta I believe.
Thanks, jim
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OK, perhaps that first post is a liitle too long. How about I narrow it down.
I am going to build a turbo diesel. It will be based off of the 1.6TD. Will 1.7 pistons fit? Are there additional concerns with using these pistons? Will the crank or Rods need to be modified? Has anyone built or used this set up.
Found my answer about the garret Turbo numbers. These links may be helpful. The catalog section and applications-passenger cars look interesting.
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/index.php
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/applications/passenger_cars.php
Thanks,Jim
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Sniff...sniff
Man, do I stink or something? :cry:
I have spent hours and hours in the search section. The 1.7 piston into the 1.6 block does not seem to be a new idea. Everything seems like it would fit. Pin, rod, crank. Half the post's say the walls of the block would be too thin, others say it's no issue. However, I have not found a single post where some one did the mod. I'm sure there must be someone here who can shine some light on the subject. :?: :?:
Jim
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i think the 1.7 pistons do not have the recess machined in them for the oil squirters... thats pretty much it i believe.
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OK, I'm kind of new to using the quote feature. that 1600 to 1700 post was supposed to be in here. :oops:
jim
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As soon as i get going with a job i plan to do this. I too have searched for an exact answer that they will fit. I know that scopefrfd has sold some to a few on here that were cut out for the oil jets. And if they were not, why not find a 1.9td piston and use a piece of cardboard to copy the pattern the modify the 1.7 pistons have them coated and balanced. Then call it good? I have no personal expierence soi can not say anything 100% sure. But what you have said sounds like you are going in the correct direction. At least you have 2 TD engines coming your way. Thats more than i have to work with. Good luck.
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I am looking for speed and reliability.
My understanding of building speed from what I’ve read here in the GTD forum is:
1. More fuel
2. More air flow in
3. More exhaust flow out
4. More fuel, more fuel, and most importantly, more fuel
5. Perhaps also, various cooling upgrades and an EGT monitor to prevent you from leaving a molten lump of engine block cooking on the highway. :lol:
I would like to move up to a TD.
Question being, 1.6 or 1.9? Kind of chicken or the egg situation. 1.6 is cheaper and has more top end. 1.9 is more expensive but has more on the bottom end. Perhaps the hybrid 1.6 block with the 1.9 head. Low CR and Northern winters may be a problem. I have seen talk here about 1.9 pistons in the 1.6 block. Can the block still be stable with that much of an overbore? I have also read about 1.7 pistons in the 1.6 blocks. Discussion went back and forth as to if the pistons had cut outs for the oil squirters. IIRC, some did and some did not. Benefits discussed included a small bump in compression ratio to help alleviate the drop brought on by the bigger pre-chambers in the 1.9 head. Has any one tried this setup yet? Would there be any concerns about piston height or stroke? I am all for increasing CC’s if possible.
Your best bet is a 1.9TD if the $$$ aren't the issue, If so then you next best bet is a 1.6TDhyd with a 1.9head, and then the last a straight 1.6TD no one that has posted up in NA has done the 1.7TD thing, and you stated you wanted speed and relliblity, so beeing a pinoneer generally isn't reliable.
Injection Pump:
The heart of the project. I am planning on sending the unit straight to the Great and Powerful OZ. I’ve read enough posts with high praise for the Giles Super Pump to make this an easy pick.
I do have some questions though. Which pump? 1.9 on a 1.6 or vice versa? Pump setup? I have read about different sizes? 9mm, 10mm, 12mm etc. Not exactly sure what that all entails. What else is there to consider? I know there was a change from manual to electric timing advance-cold start. Are there any other significant differences between pumps between 85 on up till TDI’s came on line? Are any of these better suited for hi perf mods over others? What sort of information will I need to have in advance in order for Giles to tune the pump properly?
Tell Giles what your goals are and what your budget is and he will give you the best pump availble for your needs. With that being said we have been seeing a bunch of 12mm pumps as of recent, but what you should remeber is that Malone's franken motor ran a stock 9mm plunger, with a 1.9camplate and whatever else giles magic, and it was enough to cause head gasket problems, and out run the same car with a vr6. :wink:
There are some other factors to consider such as rev range of differnt plungers as well as timing belt wear, over all there are benifits and drawbacks to both, Giles is probably your best infor there.
Bottom end:
I guess this depends on what sort of set up is chosen i.e.. straight 1.6TD, 1.9TD, hybrid etc..
Basic set-up questions: Crank, Rods, Pistons, Rings, Bearings, Head bolts/Studs etc.
1. Rings-Differences between OEM and total seal? Preference one way or the other? We have seen big power out of both and it seems to be a personal prefrence / pocket book thing
2. Pistons-I guess Myke_w is the man for pistons. Anyone try the extra slot cut in the top for extra power? Any other tid bits of info for this area? We have theorized about cutting the pistons for years, but I don't know if anyone has stepped up and done it, this again is pioneering and not really a daily driver sort of mod.
3. Rods: Am I correct in my understanding that stocks Rods are strong enough unless you start pushing over 120hp? Andy is the only one I have heard of bending rods, in NA. So unfortunatly we don't have enough data to be conclusive on that. The one bonus of using a 1.9TD is that PD rods will fit including the beefy pd150rods which have been used upto 250whp +
4. Crank: Any suggestions or proven mods? Knife-edge? Will it affect smoothness of idle? Is the amount of rotating mass removed enough to help spool time? Can any of these motors handle a stroker type mod? Does one exist? I am not aware of any stroker kits or aftermaket cranks out there, of course there are companies that will make you a one off of anything if you are ready to spend the $$$$. Knife edging would definatly remove rotating mass, but would probably require a fluid dampner, to remove the roughness at idle, but possibly could be balanced enough to be streetable. Iirc the only person that has posted about actually removing mass from the crank is Dr. Diesel. Anytime that you remove rotating mass a good balancing will be needed, but will help the revability and spool of the motor.
5. Bolts/ Studs: I have seen ARP, Raceware recommended many times. Head studs, Con-Rod bolts, Main set. Anything else? Benefits of these over stock? Benifits over stock is that they are made from superior materials and are stronger and in the most case reuisable unlike the stock bolts. That list pretty much covers it for the main fastners. My only personal prefernce reason for ARP studs over Raceware (I do personally own a set of each) is on the ARP's there is an allen key cutout for easier installation, other then that the quailty on both is impeciable
6. Oil pump: Is it correct that the pump that came in late 80’s td’s is already upgraded to the larger size? Is there a need to go for higher pressure/ volume? Some one else will have to coment here as I have no idea.
What else am I missing? Rubber oil pan gasket. , windage tray, block heater, oil-pre-heater, crank scraper-any benefit? the windage tray also includes the rubber oilpan gasket all as one unit, and is good if you plan on turning higher rpm's, as well as it is convienent with the rubber gasket, for the additional couple dollars its a no brainer. Block heater is a must if you live where it dips below freezing. The only one that I have seen runing a crank scraper is Andy, and it is built into his block stiffener, again they definatly add performance, but I don't know of any aftermarket ones produced for our motors.
Head:
1. Cam: I read the review of the pass performance cam from the TDI link. Has anything been done like this for the IDI cam, testing or dyno type numbers? How aggressive is it. Does it shift power to the high or low end? Torque changes? PP has an IDI cam as well, I know because my car was the ginnia pig for the first 3 (I think it was 3, Dave is that right?) versions of the cam. It increases spool up, decreases egt's, not super aggresive if you are comparing to big gasser cams, as there is a very limited amount of lift you can use before clearencing would be nessacary. Overall if you are running a Giles pump and good fueling definatly a recomended mod
2. HG: General consensus appears to be the metal 1.9 HG
3. Valves: Can you go bigger to increase flow? Any hints in this area?
4. Exhaust ports: I understand they should be opened up as much as possible. I was reading the link about the pre-chambers and ceramic coatings. Someone did a nice cut job on the head and opened it up for all to see. Can it be determined from the cutaway model just how far the porting can go? 2. Yes, though I am considering a comitec (sp?) gasket in my next build. 3. and 4. Give Dave @ PP a call on that he has a flowbench and is the man when it comes to these heads (he has had an incredible instructor that was apart of the Porcshe factory team in the late 80's Iirc :wink:
5. Ceramic coating: Is it worth it? Has anyone actually done their exhaust valve, port, and pre-chamber? Will this stuff flake off and cause havoc? It is used in real race cars, the good stuff will not flake off, but if it is worth it comes down to your pocket book and how far you are trying to go with this build. I would personally put Twin turbo's ahead of this in my priority list.
6. O-Ring/ Fire ring: Had to call a friend to get an explanation on this one. My basic understanding is it provides extra strength to the HG to prevent failures. Do the block and the head both need to be machined for this mod? My friend thought it was not reliable for the long term though. Thoughts? You can o-ring the head or the block or both. This is kind of hard to describe with words but i will do my best. When you oring a block you put a groove in the block around the cylinder outside of the cylinder and then a steel or copper ring is placed into this grove creating a bump or surface that makes it alot harder for the gasket to move, when you do both the head and the block the same process is used in the head but either a little bigger or smaller diameter which now creates almost like a ziplock effect on the gasket giving it the ability to withstand way more pressure. A fire ring is like an O-ring in the block except that it is machined right into the top of the cylinder, vs slightly set back in the case of an o-ring. I hear the advantage to it is that it holds nearly as well as o-ringing both head and block, but requires less machining. As far as durability, I know several guys with big hp daily driven trucks that are o-ringed with no adverse effects. As well if you are going to push any real power at all like 130hp+ it seems to be a necessity
7. Lifters: I have heard mechanical was better than hydraulic for high rpm application. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to be changing shims every 20k, and want to go hydraulic. Any concerns or build tips in this area? Just go hyd. Most of the stuff inlcuding this is the difference between building a race car and a street car. Not worth the hassle on a daily driven car for the couple extra hp potential imho
8. VC gasket: I plan on going with the rubber one to help prevent leaks. sounds like a good plan, iirc you have to get differnt studs or get bolts or something to make it work, I did this conversion years ago, Dave @ PP should know off the top of his head.
9. Splash baffle: I understand there is a baffle you can put under the VC that helps reduce oil splash and help prevent oil leaks. Any drawbacks? not that I can think of.
What have I missed?
Starter: It’s going. Needs a rebuild. Posts suggest sticking with the old style.
Alternator: Stock or more power? Is it worth messing around with pulley size? stock unless you need to run a big stereo, or some big aux lighting or some other power need, just leave the pullies stock, this goes for the water pump too.
Water pump: Same question.
Fuel filter: I was planning on going to a Racor dual set up. 10 micron and a 2-micron. Flow restriction gauge. See through water collectors. Heater inserts as well, somewhere between 150 watts and 300 watts in each. Is it possible to install anything like this in the trunk, or are there concerns about introducing this into the passenger compartment? Racor makes a gauge that fits on the dashboard with a change filter/ drain water indicator and alarm. Kind of geeky but I dig it. sounds like over kill, as for the install, I don't really have an opinon maybe some one else does
Turbo: What is max EFFECTIVE boost the KKK-24 can push out? I have read you can go pretty high, but when you push too hard it will start sending your EGT’s into the danger zone. So what is the upper end before you start getting diminishing returns? Iirc from the compressor map anything over 24psi is hot air
I understand there are a host of turbo mods, but those appear to be covered in other posts.
Exhaust: 2.5” down pipe, plus all the way back appears to be the common answer and set-up for best flow. Yup, 3" is nice, but way more of a pain to fit.
Exhaust manifold: I guess porting and polishing to match up to the head. Stock or swap? Anything else? again depends on budget a PP equal length pulse fired manifold would be the way to go, but on a budget port matching is better then not.
Intake manifold: Big subject. My basic understanding is you want it as open and as even as possible. Do you recommend a stock part or swap in something with better flow? Malone used a PD130 manifold with a little port matching as smoothing of the casting marks, much better then stock, but still not ideal, but that again comes down to $$$$
Intercooler: Looked at prices for new-ouch. The junkyard looks to be calling my name. Any preference between air to air or air to liquid? Could an electric fan be added to help draw air through to help cool? What makes should I be looking in for a really effective unit. I.e. Sabb, Audi, or something larger? With all of the other performance goodies you are asking about it seem pretty weak to cheap out at a vital part like the intercooler, look at a precsion intercooler they are well designed run bar and plate have nice end tanks and are about $250USD for the size you would want (there 350hp rated one) I'm not up on my junkyard intercoolers anymore, I ran an MX6/Probe one for a bit many years ago, but for the $$$ I would get a precsion one now.
Cold air intake: I have seen one and a two into one set up. Stock location is front right fender well. Does running them to the front end work better? I would be concerned with snow build-up or heavy rains. Are these legitimate concerns? we cut a hole right below where the stock air box would go for Malone's build up. Not much for snow in the lower mainland, but lots of rain, and he never had a problem that I am aware of. I personally just removed my one headlight and ran it forced in from the front, on one car, and enlarged the hole in the inner fender and ran a modified stock box in my others.
Injectors / nozzles: Lots and lots of information. Some say no change, just difference between old and new. More fuel at higher pressure is better, but what is the upper end? With all the nozzles I see for sale out there, is there a difference in spray pattern? Are certain spray patterns better suited for 1.9’s or 1.6’s? Many I see don’t actually say what size the nozzle is. I would expect that this would be one of the pieces of information Giles would need to get you the correct pump set up. The stock, gtd, 1.9td are all so close that it won't make much differnt to Giles for the pump setup, but if you do have them already, then it wouldn't hurt either, the biggest baddest ones out there are really hard to get ahold of as Jake is preoccupied with other things, but the dieselicous ones are supposed to be huge, agian I know Malone has a set, but they are untested to this point. Merc nozzles provide better flow then any of the vw ones. I know that Malone and Dave @ PP tested some ahwile back and so they probably would be the ones to ask about this. As well Dr. Diesel had shaved the pintle or shimed the pintle for more lift and got a fair bit more out of the stockers iirc.
Cooling: Stock radiator or bigger? Any change to the thermostat, winter vs. summer? stock TD rad, is the biggest one for the vw, if i understand correctly. As for thermostat I never tried anything else so I don't know
Fan upgrade? What about the oil cooler. It is my understanding that oil temps get hot as hell during heavy right foot usage. Is there a better cooler than stock. What about location changes for better cooling? In my next build I will get one out of a saab or a volvo I can't rember which has a really nice oil cooler factory. Either that or use any other high quailty front mount oil cooler with a thermo switch. mount it in front or to the side of the rad, with good airflow. As the oil temps definatly could use some help when you are heavy with the right foot in a moded car. As far as fans ???? I dunno, never used anything but stock.
Well, I think that’s about enough for now, wow, I didn’t realize it had gotten this long. I have a line on two complete 1.6td’s right now from the early 90’s; both are Canadian so I don’t have to worry about the itsy bitsy ECO Diesel. May also be able to get 1.9td head, intake and exhaust manifold at the same time, so the Franken motor is a possibility. I look forward to your insight. Thanks for taking the time to read through old posts, and have some questions that are not asked everyday 8 times. I would have responeded sooner, but it was a long post and I have had very limited time. In anycase I hope that clears up some of your questions, and feel free to ask more I will try and answer them as time permits, hopefully some others will jump in here and help out as well.
The biggest things you need to decide are :
- Your budget
- Your ultimate goals, a race car is cool, but not really practical. A big power reliable street car is $$$$. 8)
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Well it has begun.
I just received my new Kolbenschmidt pistons, 50mm oversize.
Will be placing the call to Total seal about the ring modification. Anyone else done this or in the process? I was thinking about just the top ring, any comments? I will also pick up some of there Quick Seat product.
Also am holding in my hands a new set of nozzles for my 1.9td injector bodies. I decided to go with the DN0 SD 265 ( 0 434 250 128 ). These are the newest updates for the Mercedes 300TD. I will be having these done up this week.
Crank was out and to the machine shop. It did not need to be turned. Guys said it looked great and just polished. Will be going with a set of standard size bearings. If anyone knows the part number for the Glyco main bearings with the seperate thrust washers I could use it.
Have my new glow plugs sitting on my shelf.
Purchased a new oil pump, the one with the 36mm gears that was reccomended.
I will be picking up a new Bosch 65 amp Alternator this week.
The same time I am getting the Alt. I will pick up a new waterpump. OEM.
The block will be getting bored out some time next week at the machine shop. Wish I had a torque plate.
Sent my connecting rods to ARP so I could have them check for the right bolts. Posted that info here. I will order the head studs and the conrod bolts today. I am going to hold off on the main studs until I figure out whats going on with the Girdle scene. I may have Dave or one of the guys from the index fab one up for me.
The IP is pulled, drained, bagged and boxed with Giles name on it. I just need to bite the bullet and send it up.
I just lost out on a 600HP precision intercooler on ebay. SHEEEIIIT! That would have been sweet. I will keep looking.
I need to get hold of Dave and talk turkey about getting some work done and some parts. Gonna go with the 2.5" DP, new intake, some form of his Port N' Polish and perhaps if I can swing it the equal length runner exhaust.
I will be lucky if my CC company dosent start calling thinking someone has stolen my card :)
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I've done the total seal rings on a volvo td and blow-by is non-existent. I had the 2nd ring modified. My understanding is the 2nd ring is ok for low reving, under 6k rpm, engines and the top gapless ring is for higher reving engines. This recommendation comes from the aircooled vw guys. I haven't done a compression test on the engine, because 1. the engine only has 400 miles on it so far and 2. the engine is such a pain to work on. But the engine is very impressive..to show how little blow-by it has, I haven't hooked up the breather hose to the valve cover it just vents to the air and there is virtually no oil film on the valve cover. The engine/compression should only get better as the rings break-in. As opposed to the volvo D24 that I just dissassembled...if you disconnected the breather hose the oil would shoot/splatter all over the engine. Come to find out it has 4 cracked 2nd rings...which I assume is probably caused by the previous owner getting frustrated starting it as it had 4 dead glowplugs and shooting starting fluid into the engine.
In my opinion the best you can do with a 1.6td is put the 1.7D pistons in it and a 1.9td head. The 1.9td head will lower the compression but the 1.7 pistons will recover approx 1 full point back in compression. I believe the engine will be around 22-1 compression ratio. A slightly lower compression ratio will actually help if you're running higher boost. The 1.7 pistons I bought have the oil squitter reliefs in the pistons and they're also coated. 1.6 and 1.7 blocks are exactly the same except for the larger bore size of the 1.7. As far as ARP headbolts and such..I've haven't had any HG failures using factory head bolts with a properly prepared block and head. I've run 20+ psi on these engines and so far so good. I would imagine if you're running 30psi then the ARP's will give you piece of mind. Diesel rod bolts are rarely if ever changed...you can tell by the lack of aftermarket rod bolts out there. A low reving diesel doesn't put as much stress as a gasser engine. If the engine shows signs of being previously rebuilt then replace the rod bolts..they can only be re-used one time. Using .50mm over pistons you may want to consider going 1-step higher in HG thickness as the extra bore volume will increase compression...great if you're going N/A but not so great with a turbo.
I'm in MA if you have any other questions feel free to PM
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I did a bunch of research on the 1.7 deal. Tracked down pistons and everything. Bruce here on the forum brought home a sonic tester and checked wall thickness on some blocks he had. I think they were NA . Don't know if that makes a difference, but the readings he came up with suggested that the walls would be very very thin going out to 1.7 spec.
I may hit you up on that offer for some help after I get all my parts in hand. I will be bringing the car down to MA to a body shop that my wifes uncle owns. No sense building a nice engine if the body starts rusting away. I would love to strip it and spray the hell out of it with that rino liner stuff, but I will settle for whatever the family discount gets me :wink:
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Come back! the snow misses you :D
Just ordered my Head studs and Con Rod bolts from summit. Must be a run on those rod bolts, they are now back ordered.
Dropped my 1.9TD injector bodies off an hour or so ago. Next week they will have fresh new 300TD nozzles in them :)
Moving forward.........
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His name was darryl remick. I guess he used to be a head mech. at a small shop in rye nh. He quit or somthing and moved to northern nh onto the side of a mountain. A bit ecentric, but knows his stuff.
I have family that planted roots in Falmouth on the family farm about 200 years ago. Still in the family. It would be a wicked pissah if they sold it :lol:
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subsonic Where did you get your nozzles from? If you don't mind me asking how much were they and how much are they charging to install and pop test them? I found some for $55 a piece its the whole injector.
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I am paying 20.00 per injector for the cleaning, install and pop tests. A bit high, but the shop is right on the way to work so I don't have to go out of the way. I purchased them with the goodfriend discount from the parts store he works at. $27.93 EA. So even with the good discount I am looking at $191.72 or 47.93 per injector.
Where did you find yours? I saw a site a while ago that had the Merc injectors at a good price but they were backordered with a unknown time.
I put these in the 1.9TD bodies over the 1.6TD. I had read here that they offered a bit more on the top end. I dont know why, or how, but I had em so I figured I would give it a try. Anyone know why?
By the way, even though these were brand new Bosch injector nozzles, the still said made in India on them :x
I have two more sets of 1.6TD injectors and a set of 1.6NA injectors so I may be able to experiment some later on down the road.
The guy has a nice shop. He has about 18 years of experience doing pumps and such. I will let you know how the quality of his work is. He said he could do a rebuild on a Bosch VE for about 300-400, as long as it was not siezed up.
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Just a quick question before my break is over. I seam to remember reading here that a higher breaking pressure on the injectors was a good thing--up to a certain point. They guy doing my injectors wanted to know what I wanted them set at. I said 155 BAR. I will be running a Giles pump, so I guess the breaking pressure is negotiable.
So now I am starting to get into the technical aspects of my engine set-up. I will call Giles and talk to him about it, but would like to get some additional feedback. What do you think?
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I found them on ebay. They are complete and are said to be Bosch but who nows. I was quoted $20 per injector also. So that sounds fair. I don't have any injector bodies so i figured i would just get some already to go. I thought about trying the big merc injectors we had talked about through email but i can't find any complete bosch units. plus those were alot more expensive.
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Middle piston rings are now on the way to Total Seal for the gapless mod.
Cost is $10 per ring and a $10 set up fee.
Bit the bullet and sent the IP up to Giles today. Bastards at the Post Office Screwed me over for almost $38 to ship it. I guess I will be staying with the stock 9mm plunger. Not sure what Giles will be doing to the pump. I told him I would be running high 20's-mid 30's for boost and that it would be intercooled. Any considerations if I am planning to use this pump on a 1.9 build up in a year or two? Camplate changes? Any idea on what these will be able as far as upper rpm range?
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Well, the wife came up today and asked about the credit card bill. " Who is Perf Diesel in Canada?" Teeheehee!
One Super Pump is on the way to my house :D
I asked Giles about the particulars of the mod.
" It will now deliver 2 times it's normal fuel, upper rpm has no cut off, just your right foot" :shock: :twisted: 8) "It will do anything you want, even on the 1.9"
The build up continues.
Jim
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"It will do anything you want, even on the 1.9"
if only Giles could work on women...!!!
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Performance injection..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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So now I am on the hunt for an intercooler.
From the beginning:
Intercooler: Looked at prices for new-ouch. The junkyard looks to be calling my name. Any preference between air to air or air to liquid? Could an electric fan be added to help draw air through to help cool? What makes should I be looking in for a really effective unit. I.e. Sabb, Audi, or something larger?
Brett wrote:
With all of the other performance goodies you are asking about it seem pretty weak to cheap out at a vital part like the intercooler, look at a precsion intercooler they are well designed run bar and plate have nice end tanks and are about $250USD for the size you would want (there 350hp rated one) I'm not up on my junkyard intercoolers anymore, I ran an MX6/Probe one for a bit many years ago, but for the $$$ I would get a precsion one now.
http://www.precisionturbo.net/intercoolers-display.php?company_id=101795&category_id=3013
So they look to be a direct seller. Does anyone have any good intel or a source to work for a discount on these intercoolers? I see them being sold used every once in a while. Any thing I should watch out for in a used intercooler?
I was looking at total set up cost for a intercooler VS a water injection system. By the time you get everything together for the IC, your close to, or at the cost of a Snow injection System.
Anyone have any opinions?
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When I looked for one at the junkyard, EVERY car with an IC had been stripped of it. Hopefully it is better where you live. E-Bay has some good deals sometimes, or maybe try your local Saab junkyard. I am putting a small fan in front of mine, maybe with it's own temp control.
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I am putting a small fan in front of mine, maybe with it's own temp control.
Shouldn't the fan be behind the IC. Something about the air flow being less turbulant?
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I am putting a small fan in front of mine, maybe with it's own temp control.
Shouldn't the fan be behind the IC. Something about the air flow being less turbulant?
Maybe, but the radiator is behind the IC, sooo...
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as long as you have ducting to direct airflow over through the IC then the rad, it will be ok. that way when the fan pulls air, it needs to pull from the IC first.
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I see there is a GTD IC on e-bay 1+ day left, current price 7.09 C.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/radiateur-INTERCOOLER-pour-golf-3-GTD-durite-plaque_W0QQitemZ170119545817QQihZ007QQcategoryZ146731QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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That appears to be a vey good deal, I wonder what shipping is?
Oh well, as always happens, a good deal comes along a bit to late. I just purchased a new Precision Intercooler today for 249.00 plus shipping direct from the company. It is rated for 350 HP. The rep on the phone said it should be 295.00. I pointed out the website and it turns out they forgot to update the price. They honored the old price. Should be here by the end of the week.
I will pick up my rebuilt 1.9TD injectors tomorrow morning. 300TD nozzles in them. Pressure set to 155 BAR. Guy said that he got them within one BAR of each other, lowest to highest.
Still building.
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Picked up the injectors. All cleaned up and looking good.
Victor Reinz 1.9TD metal HG arrived in the mail today along with a rubber VC gasket with nice german writing on it. Also in the box, 8 new injector heat shields, a handful of new freeze plugs, one box of Glyco main bearings and a baggie with seperate thrust washers. Thanks Myke.
Another step forward.
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Precision Intercooler arrived today. :D
Pictues to follow when I figure out how to fix the dicked up focus on my camera.
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Block prep:
Besides stripping the block down and putting it through the shop hot tank washer, what else to I need to do in order to prep it for building?
I have new freeze plugs so the old ones are coming out.
I am going to try like hell to get a torque plate for the bore job.
I saw the article about the additional cooling holes to match up with the 1.9 HG. Plan on doing them.
What else? Is there any deck prep besides checking for straightness? I heard someone say, " It looks good and straight to me, you dont need to do anything to it" That does not sound very precise to me. how and what do you check on the block?
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Giles pump arrived today. Nice and shiney!
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Block prep:
Besides stripping the block down and putting it through the shop hot tank washer, what else to I need to do in order to prep it for building?
I have new freeze plugs so the old ones are coming out.
I am going to try like hell to get a torque plate for the bore job.
I saw the article about the additional cooling holes to match up with the 1.9 HG. Plan on doing them.
What else? Is there any deck prep besides checking for straightness? I heard someone say, " It looks good and straight to me, you dont need to do anything to it" That does not sound very precise to me. how and what do you check on the block?
yea... they can always be shaved a little. go to a reputable shop, and have them show you how non-flat your surfaces really are...
looks like everything is going smooth for you with the Giles pump and all :)
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Middle piston rings are now on the way to Total Seal for the gapless mod.
Cost is $10 per ring and a $10 set up fee.
Well I ran into a problem with this mod.
I received a call from Total Seal after I contacted them about what was taking so long with the rings.
The new KS pistons came with a chrome 2nd ring. I am told that they can not do the mod on these as the chrome will start flaking off after the mod. They will comp me a new set of cast iron taper face rings that they can do the mod to. I need to go get my pistons now and measure the 2nd ring groove on all of them for depth and width so I can pass on this info to them.
Anyone else run into a problem like this? Is chrome better than cast iron? I was told that the rings I sent were not taper faced. The cast iron ones will be. Benifits one way or the other?
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well chrome would just last longer wouldn't it??? i would think that it would need a taper to actually 'scrape' the oil though???
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I talked to the guy at Total Seal. He told me he needed the measurements from the ring grove on the piston. He did not want to use the rings I sent him to make a template for the new rings :? What gives? My bud at the machine shop said that if he wants the measurments that exact, and cant get them off the oem rings, send him the damn pistons and let him be responsible for measuring.
Now I am thinking about what I would have for rings. Only the middle ring would be cast iron, the others would be chrome plated. These would have different wear rates wouldnt they?
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Thats bogus if he won't use the rings you sent him for measurements, that makes me weary, I've had good luck with total seal, but I'd be talking to someone else there about this issue now...
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If the pistons are used, he may want measurements in case the groove has widened slightly. Don't forget their gapless ring is a thin ring that fits on top of the cast iron ring. If the gap was too wide, maybe it might cause problems. Then again, I just ordered a set for my engine and didn't have to measure anything.
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I told the guy these are off of brand new KS pistons. Is this just because I sent him rings to be modded, and did not get the whole set from them?
What about the use of different materials? I suspect that the cast iron ring will wear out much sooner than the other chrome plated rings.
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Windage tray arrived in the mail today. Looks nice. No more leaky oil pan. Good deal from Myke_w.
My parts shelf is getting pretty full :D
I think I just found a brand spanking new AAZ head-complete, for a real good price. I just need to verify that it is OEM and not Wang inc.
Hope it turns out to be the real deal so I can get it up to Dave for a port overhaul. Gotta get this project together soon.
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All those parts on my shelf would kill me.
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OK, get this
I just had some jerkoff refuse to sell me a new AAZ head because he said I intended it for a non oem application.(Franken)
WTF :!: Who cares if I want to paint it lime green and use it as modern art! What a freaking a-hole!
GRRRRRRRRRRR :x
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wtf mate??? lol refusing your business... omfg... "we will not warranty it and therefore we will not sell you it"
as far as i'm concerned, once you buy it, it is yours to do with as you like. break it, smash it, melt it, install it incorrectly, or pimp the hell out of it!!!!!!!! :twisted:
did you tell him that you were going to modify it? maybe he knows the head is garbage and will break/crack once dave starts modding it :lol: maybe it is in your best interest not to buy from this goon.
apparently www.zsimports.com has decent rebuild 1.9 heads. not sure if they are in your price range though... how much did the guy want for the head?
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He wanted about 480.00 US plus shipping.
I could not get a straight answer from the guy. Would not identify the maker, would not send any pictures of the front of the head, would not send any of the part/ casting numbers from the head. I've never had someone be such a dick when I was trying to give them money!
His ebay name is:
ecstyling -- now to be refered to as dickface
Heres how it went:
"Who made the head? Is it vw, Kolbenschmidt,etc.. Does this have the OEM part number on it? Is this NOS?
Thanks, Jim"
dickface "What is your vehicle VIN code?"
"This is going into a 1985 golf. The head is going on a 1.6TD hydraulic block that I am building up. The veh vin wont work. I do not have the vin from the doner car. It was pulled from a canadian vw diesel though.
Is this a OEM head? I dont want a chinese copy.
Do you know what year this one was made? There was a change in valve size around 96 with the AAZ. "
Dickface
"goingbearhunting(subsonic): This is going into a 1985 golf. The head is going on a 1.6TD hydraulic block that I am building up.
Reply(from dickcheese): We are not able to provide any support or confirmation if this (or the non TD 1.9 head we also carry) will be completely compatible with your application. This is intended for an AAZ engine.
goingbearhunting(subsonic): Is this a OEM head? I dont want a chinese copy.
Do you know what year this one was made? There was a change in valve size around 96 with the AAZ.
More from dickface "It is not possible to put a 1.9 aaz head on a 1.6TD because of the intake ports are a different shape."
"Thanks for your response. I am familier with your comments. It is a long process, however it does work. I have a custom intake and exhaust. I need a replacement for my current 1.9TD head. Could you please tell me if this is a OEM head, or is it "like an oem head"? If it is OEM, who made it? Does it have any casting numbers on it? Is this new old stock?
I have a line on 2 used heads, but was considering buying yours as it is a "factory new" unit.
Thanks, Jim "
Asswipe "Reply: Correct, all our engines, long/short blocks and heads are sourced directly from the VW factories and thereby Original Equipment Volkswagen yes."
"Sounds good.
Do you have the ability to take some pictures of the head? I would like to get good pictures of the ports, the front of the head where the casting numbers are, and the top and bottom.
Thanks, look forward to doing buisness with you.
Jim "
No reply, so "Please send your phone number. I would like to talk to you about this head. If you could, I would like to see some pictures of the head. Front, back, top and bottom.
Thanks, Jim"
knob "Q: Please send your phone number.
A: As indicated to avoid misunderstandings and to server our customers in the most effecient way we keep the communications in writing.
Q:I would like to talk to you about this head.
A: How can we help you?
Q: I would like to see some pictures of the head.
A: Please refer to the listing for picture. As we have indicated this item is NOT suitable for your application and we are not able to offer any support for such applications."
"OK,
You said this head was from a VW OEM parts factory.If you know who the maker is,would you please tell me. IE.Kolbenschmidt, Mahle etc.
If the maker is unknown, would you please pass me the numbers off the head, I should be able to cross reference them.
I asked for the pictures so I could see front and bottom of the head. Your listing photo does not show the front or bottom of the head. The rear photo does indeed show the D-style ports. I have talked to other seller's with 1.9TD heads and asked to see the front of the head only to be told that there are no casting codes or numbers, or that they have been ground off. I will not buy a head like that. I am putting a lot of money into this rebuild, much of it centered around the head. I only have enough money to do this one time, so I need to make sure everything is correct. I asked to see the bottom because sellers have said "complete" before but the pre-chambers were not included. Thats what I get for assuming. Thanks, Jim "
super asswipe
"We are sorry but any questions or issues you have (or have had) with other sellers you need to take up with them, we can not help you on this matter."
"MAN, Im not laying that on you, just giving you some past sellor history. I see that you have great feedback. Does this head come with the prechamber inserts? Are there any casting codes on the head or is it blank."
dickheadextreme
"Q: MAN, Im not laying that on you, just giving you some past sellor history
A: We do not understand what you mean by 'laying' and 'sell or'.
Q: Does this head come with the prechamber inserts?
A: As we have indicated this product is NOT SUITABLE for your vehicle."
"Look, I know what I want to do with the head. I know it works. I know guys running this set-up and they have been for years. It should not matter to you guys if I said I wanted to use this thing as a toaster. You have covered yourselves with warning me. If you want to sell the head, would you please just answer my questions.
Does this include the pre-chamber inserts.
Does this head have any casting codes.
Will you tell me what they are."
assmunch
"Q: It should not matter to you guys if I said I wanted to use this thing as a toaster.
A: Yes it matters, we are sorry we can not assist you with this, we only supply our OEM parts to be used in the way the factory intended them, sorry!"
"Fine, you dont want my buisness, I will take it elsewhere.
You guys are rude, talk out your ass about things you don't know about, and your unwillingness to give up basic information leads me to believe that what you are really selling is a line of ***. Good luck unloading your POS crap wang heads. Knob"
Well the search will continue
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the guy is a total retard, and tries to make you look dumb... probably too lazy to get off his randy cheeseburger eatin ass... he needs mr lahey to help him out... if that was me i would have chewed him a new one.
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If what he's selling really IS the OEM head you're looking for, and you can't find them elsewhere - maybe the best approach would be to ask him the same details again but without telling him you'll be building a franken.
Or get someone else to ask him.
That way, if you're REALLY lucky, he might just sell it to you. And make some money. Something he's obviously not very farmiliar with.
What an ass :lol:
Props for all the work you're putting into this man.
All the best! 8)
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i have a question... can you still use the 1.9 headgasket if you have a mech. lifter engine? no oil drain port on the front.... ?
and did mech. heads ever come with the sodium exh valves?
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i have a question... can you still use the 1.9 headgasket if you have a mech. lifter engine? no oil drain port on the front.... ?
and did mech. heads ever come with the sodium exh valves?
yes but you need to somehow block the extra oil port on the block.
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That jackoff just filed a complaint against me on ebay!!!!!
WTF :x :x :evil:
Good deal or not ecstyling is a pain in the ass to do buisness with. IMHO this seller on e-bay should be avoided.
Feel free to ask them all the questions you can think of. I am sure you will get polite and accurate answers back from them. NOT!!
:evil: :x :!: :evil: :x :!:
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Well, the 1.9 head I thought was junk has been given a second chance at life. Burn you money refered me to someone who has a different opinion.
I sent pictures of the cracks between the valves, and of the screwed up lifter bores. I was told the cracks could be peened shut / down, and the two lifter bores were repairable. Nice to hear some good news every once in a while :wink:
I am going to go with heavy duty springs. I was hoping to get a reccomendation from some of you out there that have gone this route.
I read online that some of the gasser HD springs are just stock diesel ones. Anyone else hear that?
So I am trying to figure out what size valves I have in this head. On line I see that there is a difference when the number goes from
678.000 To 678.001
but I have no idea what number that is refering to :?
The part number on my head reads: 028 103 373J
So can anyone tell me what size valves I have in this thing? I am looking to go with the smaller dia. valve stem.
Thanks, jim
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Bump for HD springs and valve size.
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I love how he went from;
dickface to
dickcheese to
asswipe to
knob to
super asswipe to
dickheadextreme to
assmunch...
Sorry you had a bad experiance but thanks for making me smile this morning. :)
Sounds like your gonna have one heck of a engine when done.
dan
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Well I now have my turbo for the project. I ended up going with the Mercedes T-3. .48 A/R turbine .42 A/R compressor , 45 trim.
I just ordered the performance rebuild kit for it from gpopshop for 145 plus shipping. It is the complete kit for a entire rebuild. It has stepped gap piston rings and the 360 degree steel bearing.
I will be starting the PB blaster tonight. I guess I am going to need to head to the store to buy a propane torch.
When I get it apart I will be getting the parts cleaned in a glass bead cabinet.
onward......
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0130.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0131.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0129.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0128.jpg)
I will be having the turbine ported and polished on both ends. It's just gonna get bigger :shock: :twisted:
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Bump for photo's :D
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Sweet :D
DD 8)
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Subsonic,
I am from Boston. I am following your buildup and it's coming along pretty good.
Anyways, i would be interested in a 1.6td if you have one laying around. Also, maybe you can help through the rebuilding process too.
I was trying to get one from canada but shipping will be too much.
thanks
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I have a spare 1.6TD-mechanical, and a 1.6NA-mechanical right now. The NA is in my car and will be coming out when this here super diesel is ready to go. The TD is missing some minor parts like injector lines, but is mostly complete. I got it when it was already out of the car so I dont know how it would run. It would best be used as a solid rebuild canidate. I have some extra bits and pieces like turbo manifolds and an extra turbos--T3 and K24. I guess you could turn the NA into a TD with the right parts.
I would like to hold on to the spare TD for right now, just in case something tragic happens when I get the franken motor running. I will probably sell the NA when it is pulled. I may have many of the parts for the TD upgrade on hand. You could also road trip to Canada. I did, but it was a long dayof driving and lots of coffee. Cruise up to Maine and take the CAT to Nova Scotia. Looks like the have some good deals there.
I will keep you posted when I get ready to sell it. I would do it here anyway. Best site going.
You may also want to look up scopefrd from this forum. He has a large knowledge base. He is also a resident of the great communist state of Mass. :wink: :lol:
I would be glad to share info with you, although this is also a learning process for me.
Thanks, Jim
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You might want to think about a lightened flywheel. I switched to a 16V, had it lightened and got a bigger clutch. Be careful to check your TDC mark. Mine had to be relocated @ 12mm clockwise. Less weight---revs way nicer!!
J.B.
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Subsonic,
How was it getting engines through customs? Hopefully, I'm planning a trip to Canada to pick a few up, and customs is my worry. Unfortunately, work has been slow, and that means money has been tight, so I haven't gone yet...
Don.
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It was a hassle. If I had been better prepared I would have had a copy of the exception section from the customs book. It's here on the forum somewhere. Myke_w has it in one of his posts. DO a search for customs.
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I just received the turbo rebuild instructions for my kit. I don't have the kit yet, but I will post the directions. I will try and take photo's as I go through the tear down.
INSTRUCTIONS:
The first step in rebuilding your turbo is marking your turbine housing and compressor housing in relationship to the bearing center section. You can do this with paint, a punch, etc...This will ensure, once you are finished rebuilding the turbo, that it will bolt directly back up to your engine.
The next step: remove the turbine housing bolts that hold the turbine housing to the center section, there will either be 4 or 6 13mm bolts.
Next, remove the 6, 1/2" or 13mm bolts that hold the compressor housing to the backing plate.
Then place the turbo's turbine nut into a vice holding it firmly, the nut is odd-shaped because of balancing, but you can normally get two sides in the vice.
Mark the turbine shaft with paint on the blade that lines up with the oil drain of the center section.
Next, mark the compressor wheel to the backing plate with paint, or by lightly scribing a mark on both surfaces.
Remove the 3/8" compressor wheel nut and then remove the compressor wheel. ***Special Note*** Some are left-hand threaded shafts. If turned counter clockwise, it will break the shaft off, turn it clockwise to remove the nut if you see that it is a left-hand thread.
With a rubber mallet, lightly tap the threaded turbine shaft to remove it from the bearing center section.
Once removed, place bearing center section in a vice, holding it firmly by the oil inlet and oil outlet flat surfaces. Now, remove the 4 backing plate bolts. They will either be 10mm or 7/16".
With a rubber mallet, lightly tap aluminum backing plate to separate it from the bearing housing.
There are 3 types of compressor seals for the T3's, T4's and T3/T4 hybrid turbos. The first one is a one piece carbon seal, this type of seal is pressed into and out of the backing plate as an assembly. The second type is a 4-piece carbon seal, this type consists of a carbon seal, o-ring, eared washer, and a spring. To remove this type of seal, first pick the black carbon seal out of the backing plate, next using a pick remove the o-ring, then turn the earred washer until its ears line up with the stakes in the backing plate, and finally remove the spring. When reassembling this type of seal, first install the spring with the small end down, next the earred washer, then the o--ring, and finally the carbon seal.
The last type of seal used in these turbos is the dynamic seal, this type of seal installs onto the thrust collar, use a pick to remove it. To install it press it over the collar with your thumbs until it fits into the groove.
There are also two types of thrust bearings used on T3's, T4's, and T3/T4 hybrid turbos. One is the standard 270 degree (not a full circle), if you have this type use a pick and pull the thrust bearing off of the bearing housing. The other type of thrust bearing is the 360 degree (full circle), it can be held by 3 allen-head screws, or by the anti-rotation pins in the bearing housing. To remove it, either remove the three screws, or use a pick to pull if off of the anti-rotation pins.
Now, remove the small snap ring holding the front journal bearing in, and use a pick to remove the journal bearing.
Next, turn the bearing center section upside down and remove the rear snap ring and rear journal bearing.
Now, you have almost completely disassembled the turbo. The last thing you must do on a dynamic seal turbo is remove the piston ring from the thrust collar, or on a carbon seal turbo, remove the carbon seal , o-ring, washer, and spring from the backing plate. Now, remove the piston ring from the turbine shaft, and the turbo is disassembled.
***Special Note*** Carefully check all sealing surfaces where piston rings sit when installed. These surfaces must be smooth and round. Also, check the grooves that the piston rings sit in on the turbine shaft and the thrust collar. The piston ring must sit in these grooves tightly, with only 0.001 or 0.002 clearance. Any more than this will cause oil leaks.
Another special note: Journal bearing surfaces and thrust collar surfaces must be completely smooth and have no scratches or nicks that you can feel with your finger nail. Places to check: journal bearing bore in the bearing housing, journal bearing surface on the turbine shaft, and thrust collar surfaces that touch the thrust bearing.
*One more note:* Bearing housing choking is a very common problem with all turbos. It is caused by the turbo not being properly cooled off when the engine is shut off, and/or irregular oil changes. To check for this problem, look for black carbon deposits throughout the inside of the bearing housing, especially on the rear side where the turbine shaft goes in. The bearing housing should have an open area that you can see light through from the oil drain back to the rear sealing area where the shaft goes in. If you cannot see through the bearing housing, from these two areas, then you have severe choking and all of this carbon must be removed, or the turbo will fail almost instantly on startup.
Now, completely and thoroughly clean the whole turbo with solvent. It needs to be very clean, this is very, very important. Reverse the procedure above and reassemble the turbo using high quality engine assembly lube on all bearings and sealing surfaces.
**360 Degree thrust bearing installation**
First, install the beveled washer with the beveled side down towards the journal bearing. Next, place 360 degree thrust bearing on to the bearing housing locating it carefully on the 2 anti-rotation pins. Lastly, install the thrust collar into the thrust bearing with the piston ring seal facing up.
When torquing the compressor nut, follow this procedure: If this is a left-handed thread, tighten the nut down hand-tight until it touches the top of the compressor wheel. Then, using a 3/8" wrench, tighten the nut approximately 1/8 of a turn. This will properly torque the nut and seat the bearings and thrust parts. On right-hand nuts, tighten the nut hand-tight until it touches the top of the compressor wheel, then turn with a 3/8" wrench approximately 1/4 of a turn.
Getting started
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0148.jpg)
Marking turbine, compressor, and center section
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0152.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0151.jpg)
Bolts I can not get out yet because the are hitting the center housing. Once the turbine loosens up it will move away from the center housing and I will be able to back them out all the way. All the other turbine bolts are out. Looks like I will begin the ritual of twice daily torch sessions and PB blaster soakings followed by a good smack with a hunk of wood.
I will need to remember to remark the turbo when things start to loosen up. I have burned off most of the markings already.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0150.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0149.jpg)
Here is the photo of the old turbine clamp ring that I have cut off to get access to the joint. It will be replaced with clamps from the kit.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0178.jpg)
Once I had that old clamp off, I was able to apply heat directly to the joint. I gave the turbine some solid wacks all the way around and it broke loose. Here are some interesting marks inside the turbine housing. They are not from the blades. I inspected them and saw no indication of contact. Not sure what they are from. Idea's?
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0179.jpg)
Here are some shots of the turbine housing and the wastegate. You can see where the exhaust will flow to the wastegate.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0181.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0183.jpg)
Here is a shot of the turbo with the turbine housing removed. You can see the blades and the ground balance nut. Also note that the bolts and clamps have been removed from the compressor.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0188.jpg)
Here is a better shot of the nut that they grind to balance the assembly. This is the one you need to find 2 flat spots so you can place it in a vise.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0199.jpg)
Here we have a shot of the inside of the compressor housing and the compressor blades, both turbine and compressor blades are still attached through the center section. Look at all that nasty build up. I should have scratched "clean me" into the goop for the photo :lol: .
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0191.jpg)
This is a close up of the compressor blades and the 16 point nut.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0192.jpg)
It was a bit of a pain to try and mark all the pieces so every thing will go back together exactly as before. I am going to have this cleaned in a glass bead cabinet. That is going to take off any paint marks or small scribe marks I put on. I opted to mark the pieces with the dremel tool. That was the only way I could think of that would not dissapear with the cleaning. Just if you were wondering, I did not get anywhere close to the blades. Just housings. More photo's to follow after I pick up the correct socket tommorrow on the way home from work.
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I have broken loose all the bolts on the turbo except 2 on the turbine. Started with 3 days of PB blaster soakings before I headed to bed. Every day I would put a wrench on the bolts and give it a tap or two. Tonight I fired up the propane torch. Most broke loose after 1 round of heat, tapping the wrench, and doing the slow back and forth with occasional shots of the PB blaster. Some took 2-3 rounds of heat, and some more aggressive tapping on the wrench. I snapped two :x :x . One on the turbine housing and one on the wastgate cover.
I was kind of worried about hitting it with the torch since the whole unit has been soaked in the PB blaster for days. All I could envision was a carb back fire/ flash. "AHHH!! I'm blind!!!"
:shock:
I see two problems. One, "AHHH!! I'm blind!!!" he he, and Two, 2 of the bolts are hitting the oil fittings on the center section when I back them out. I will take some photo's tommorow. I resnugged everything after hitting it one last with the pb blaster. I did not want to take it apart until I had a better work are set up. Did not want to risk dinging one of the fins.
I will post photo's of the tear down and try and match them up to the instructions from above. Will keep you posted.
Jim
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Thanks for the hints Andrew. I was worried about the flash, I would look pretty damn strange with no eye brows or lashes :lol:
I sent you a pm about your merc turbo.
Jim
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Subsonic,
I'm enjoying your posts--keep it up!
I just started on rebuilding an 84 TD, that will be transplanted into a 95 Golf shell. I've been wrenching on VWs for over 20 years (and VW Merc diesels off and on) but this will be my first turbo rebuild.
From your posts, to my shop--thanks for taking the time to post this usefull information.
Good Luck,
Geoff
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Thanks Wolfsbur,
It's a long road for me to learn all this. This site has been fantastic.
Andrew, I have all the turbine bolts loose. I have them all out except the bolts under the oil supply and oil drain ports. Those two are finger loose but I still can not seperate the turbine from the center housing. I am afraid to wack the turbine to hard for fear of cracking it. I have put the heat to it in a circle. Around the whole joint. I am holding the turbo by the compressor in one hand and hitting it with a hunk of wood on the turbine with the other hand. Nothing.
I am off to work again so I put the bolts back in loosely by hand and drenched it in PB blaster again. Perhaps tommorrow will be the magic day. I will post the photo's I took today either at work or at home if I have time.
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I have been posting my photo updates in the instruction part of this post.
Thanks Andrew. I get a bit nervous when smoke starts pouring out of the turbo :shock: :lol: . How long to you go on a heat session?
I figured it was about time to turn off the torch when my beautiful wife walked into the garage and wanted to know what the hell was on fire. "God, it smells awful in here! Is that thing going to start a fire?!"
" No baby, all is well, all is well" (name the movie). She thinks I am nuts currently :lol: .
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My area of the garage I play in is a huge mess. Old wood stove, old 1.6TD, etc, etc. I needed a nice clean spot to record my moment of glory so I hijacked the chest freezer. The newspaper( portland press herald) was to prevent my wife from going insane by seeing me get an oily mess all over the freezer :lol:
I have cranked those bolts out so far that I cant even turn them any more, even with me leaning pretty good on the wrench. I gave the housing another shot of PB as I walked in the door from work tonight.
I think I will bring the turbo outside tomorrow to really put the heat to it. I am going to look like a back woods mainer sitting in my driveway with smoking autoparts, wacking it with a hunk of 2x4. "The way life should be" :lol:
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Rebuild kit arrived today.
No parts list included so I am not sure if it is all there. I will call the company just to confirm all parts where included. Performance kit was a better deal than going with the full rebuild kit and ordering the 360 and stepped gap piston ring seperately. Shipping was a bit steep at 9 bucks for a 1 pounder.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0153.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0158.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0161.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0160.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0171.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0175.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0167.jpg)
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I had great luck on a rusted part one time using stuff called Super Lube dry film lubricant. I don't know if it worked so well, or if the formulation carried the WD-40 and PB Blaster into it that I had been putting on for days. Before the Super Lube, I could barely move it with a 3 lb sledge(a large hinge like device) and right after the Super Lube, I could immediately move it by hand. I know, I sound like a commercial, but I had never seen anything like it. I couldn't remember where I bought it, but I found you can order it on the net.
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If the PB and the torch fail me I may buy a can. I think I am going to try an extended heat session to see if that will help. What was the cost of the can you found on line?
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Bump
Photo's of rebuild kit added. Pg 5
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That is one snazzy looking kit. I think I'm going to have to take a stab at rebuilding a turbo.
What are your plans for balancing it?
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If you pay to have it rebuilt at the company I bought the kit from , they do the balance as part of the Perf. rebuild. Price is not bad. You end up paying about 200ish for labor. I am saving the 200 clams and spending part of it(115.00) on having the turbine housing/internal wastegate ported and polished. Faster flow, faster boost!
If I remember from my reading, you do not have to rebalance as long as everything is put back together just as it came apart, and no contact was made by the fins against anything. That's what the guys at gpopshop said as well. I am sure that statement will be open to debate on this forum.
Head show up?
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I see. I wonder how much it would cost to send out for balancing. I'm sure if it was unbalanced even a bit it would fail pretty quickly.
A head showed up, not the one you are hoping for though
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I think a balance was like 40 or 50 bucks.
How ugly was the head?
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40-50 sounds like money well spent when you consider how fast that turbine is spinning.
I haven't seen the head yet but it should be uber clean, it's freshly rebuilt :D
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10 minutes of heat, TAP TAP TAP...Nothing
Let it cool for about 5 min. More PB, lots of smoke, more PB, TAP TAP....
nothing.
Will try the same thing tommorrow, and everyday untill it gives up and comes apart.
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The metal clamp ring is still attached. I mean it is loose and all, just held in place by those two bolts. I can't get a clear shot at the joint. Until the joint comes apart, or the last two bolts come out and I can lift the ring I can't get at it. It's a solid circle all the way around the turbine. How the hell do these turbo shops do a 1 week turn on these things? :? All I can think to do is just keep hitting it with the heat and PB and cranking those bolts out some more until the joint starts to come loose.
Either that or I need to get a rubber mallet to really wonk it with.
I will heat it again tommorow and try some bigger taps.
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Do the same heating prior to tapping and be sure that you take necessary precautions so that if it suddenly comes apart the turbine housing won't fall and get damaged or damage you.
Andrew
Instinct says grab it befor it fall's. Hot potato!!! :lol: I am going to go looking for my nomex gloves.
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Andrew,
Does your turbo from the 82 have the solid metal ring clamp all the way around the turbine or does it have smaller seperate clamps?
I am thinking of cutting off the ring clamp.
I just looked at the turbo again, then my rebuild kit. I have six clamps in the kit. My turbo only has three clamps on the compressor and this single ring clamp on the turbine. I am guessing that the 3 individual clamps are an update over the solid ring. I am going to call the kit maker and see if they can confirm this. If this the case, I am cutting that thing off directly so I can get access to the joint seam.
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Victory!!!
The deed is done. I have the turbine and compressor off. I had to stop because I did not have the 16 point 3/8 socket. Off to the store. Center section is stored in a box lined with foam so no fins get bent.
I called the kit supplier to ask about the metal clamp ring on the turbine. They said to cut it off and use the replacement clamps. I went out, bought a Dremel tool and cut that thing off directly. Once it was off I had clear access to the joint. 3-4 min of heat, tap tap all the way around. Off it came.
I deserve a big fat cocktail and some quality time with my wife!!! :D
I will post Pictures later tonight of the tear down progession
Jim
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Bump. It's apart.
Dissasembly photo's added to page 5.
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:lol: I've done the same thing with one of my 12 points :lol:
I tried the 12 point on this one but it slipped-twice. I figured I did not want to strip it so I am going to try the correct one.
What do you make of the scoring on the inside of the turbine housing? It's not from the blades. They are in fine shape except for a ton of soot and crap on them. Seen anything like that before?
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Great post! I'm enjoying it. Where have you been getting yur rebuild components, i.e. pistons, bearings, etc? :D
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Hey Guys, I'm considering doing a conversion on my 1.6na but was wondering has anyone tried using a water/meth kit to keep EGT's down on this engine? Seems like that would be an easy way to keep EGT's at stock levels when combined with an intercooler. Maybe this would help combat the fact these engines don't have the oil squiters or the better head.
Charlie
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the oil squirters help cool the pistons themselves. the n/a will never be able to cool the pistons.
TD pistons can run with quite a bit of smoke/heat, whereas the n/a pistons will start to burn up a few hundred degrees earlier.
regardless of that though, any means of decreasing the intake temperature will really help keep smoke down and increase the longetivity of the motor.
i'd say go for water/meth injection. the only downside is having to refill the bottle.
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Great post! I'm enjoying it. Where have you been getting yur rebuild components, i.e. pistons, bearings, etc? :D
I did a bunch of research here for part suppliers, asking members etc.
I also have a friend who works in an auto machine shop for a large auto parts store. He has been a godsend. He has helped my get a bunch of my parts at his cost.( cost plus 10%) That has saved me hundreds and hundreds of dollars.
On that note,
I just ordered some more parts.
Intermediate shaft bearings, o-ring etc.. The ones in the block looked great, but if the block is out and stripped I would be a moron not to swap them out.
Both motor mounts and the transmission mount. Same logic as above.
Has anyone heard of a upgrade to one of the motor mounts? I thought I saw a article about an improved mount? Not a poly mount, but a redesigned unit :?:
Connecting rod bearings.
Will have more photo's of the turbo rebuild posted in a week or so. Just had the compressor glass bead blasted. Nice and clean.
Had to head to New Orleans for a wedding and some drinking / mental health break a week or so ago. Now hunting season is just around the corner and I still need to sight in three rifles and my muzzle loader. AHHHH!!!!
I need more hours in the day and a bigger paycheck!!
I need to get going on this ASAP.
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I ordered the same kit a week ago as well as motor mounts and a pump rebuild kit. Thanks for posting your progress. I will refer to it when I rebuild my stuff.
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I am rolling forward again.
After dicking around for way more time than I wanted to looking for a used 1.9 head, I decided to just say the hell with it. When I figured out the cost of fixing my 1.9 head, and looked at the cost of buying a used one and then having it rebuilt it just was not worth it.
I bought a brand new, complete, Kolbenschmidt 1.9 AAZ head. :D
I sure hope this 1.6/1.9 setup works like it should. I have a lot more invested in it now then I had originaly planned. :shock:
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Got some more work done on the turbo rebuild tonight.
Right between getting the kids to bed and putting the lights on the tree, I managed to pour a Jameson and ginger or three and get the center section apart. Working at the kitchen table under the watchful eye of my beautiful wife,( who was kind enough not to roll her eyes :roll: at my in home endeavor ), I found two flat spots on the balance nut and spun the top bolt right off. Directions said to gently tap out the center section with a rubber mallet. I did not have one, and because I am a horrible procrastinator, my tool boxes are not accessable. Why? Because two days ago, with snow coming down :shock: , It was a mad dash to get the lawn and driveway picked up. My garage has crap packed in it 5 feet tall, and front to back. Where the hell does all this stuff come from?
I did not want to wang the threads up hitting it with the 3 foot breaker bar I was using, so I folded a hand towel in half, put it over the threaded rod and gave it a gentle breaker bar tap.
Damn threads poked right through the hand towel!
I made the call to sacrifice one of my wifes soft plastic teaspoon measuring sets. I put one of them over the threaded rod, and then the towel on top of that. Two solid wacks and the shaft was free.
A free shaft is a good thing! Ha hahahaha :lol:
Took the 4 bolts off the backing plate, gave it a tap and it fell right off. The whole thing is apart now. There is enough coke in this bad boy to make Tony Montana (scar face ) lose his mind.
Had to get it all picked up and put away asap, lights to be put on the tree don't ya know.
I will add some photo's when I can. My wife would have tossed my christmas presents out the window if she saw me picking up her expensive camera with my hands all black and covered with shee-iit.
I hope to get this post all put together as a how to when it's all done. I will get with a mod when it is time.
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If the manifold is being drilled for an EGT, does it make a difference if it is drilled before or after ceramic coating?