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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 2mAn on January 17, 2007, 10:48:24 am

Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: 2mAn on January 17, 2007, 10:48:24 am
i have heard that this is a good upgrade. does anyone have any experience with this?
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: jtanguay on January 17, 2007, 11:04:58 am
andy2 has one... he also said that when calibrating a pump on a test bench they hook the pump up to a 5 psi lift pump... would help quite a bit imo...  but good ones are quite expensive :(
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: zukgod1 on January 17, 2007, 01:37:37 pm
I installed one on my Toyota Diesel, not sure if it helped or not but sure didnt hurt. I just used on of those cheepo pumps from Checker (US) that was under $20 and rated at 3-6 psi and 90+ Ltr pr hr.
I'm planning on doing the same thing as soon as I acn get the Jetta fired up and running.
Sure makes fuel filter replacment cake.

dan
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: 2mAn on January 17, 2007, 07:13:33 pm
any other input?
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: sethyboy85 on January 17, 2007, 07:16:30 pm
I have one I have to put on yet but it is 3-6psi and 50gph or something like that, I plan to use it if/when I change injectors to prime the pump back up so it starts almost immediately (did this on my dad's jetta) and also to use it when I install my vegie tank to help the pump.
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: Dr. Diesel on January 18, 2007, 04:30:46 am
Giles recommends using one. You can find gasser carb engine pumps for cheap.
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: carrizog60 on January 18, 2007, 05:13:52 am
performance wise there is any benefits?
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: Master ACiD on January 18, 2007, 02:58:47 pm
ive got one on my diesel. my dad said my engine is the smoothest running and most powerfull non turbo 1.6 hes ever seen, and hes owned plenty of them, even bought a brand new rabbit once off the showroom floor.
dont know if thats the electric pumps doing or not but i figure it cant hurt.
my pump came with my car which was originally a fuel injected gasser converted to a carburettor, so my lift pump is a low psi unit designed for a carb. came on the car when i got it.
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: jtanguay on January 18, 2007, 05:33:56 pm
i would go as far as saying that it would increase the lifespan of your pump... even though it should already be high... :)

the theory behind the lift pump, is that it will give you a smoother idle, and more power way up in the rpm range by delivering much needed fuel with no air bubbles.  on both my diesels when i rev the engine and watch the fuel line, i see a surge of bubbles.  not big mind you, but enough to hinder performance.
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: myke_w on January 19, 2007, 07:01:47 am
FWIW:
I can supply 12v - 4.5 psi solid state pumps for around 50 USD shipped in the us.. These have no moving parts, and are practically indestructible..   I can get Canadian shipping prices if people are interested.. If enough folks up north were interested and I could find a partner, I could ship a whole bunch up and have that person distribute them..

Just a thought.  :D
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: Turbinepowered on January 19, 2007, 07:21:52 am
Quote from: "myke_w"
FWIW:
I can supply 12v - 4.5 psi solid state pumps for around 50 USD shipped in the us.. These have no moving parts, and are practically indestructible..   I can get Canadian shipping prices if people are interested.. If enough folks up north were interested and I could find a partner, I could ship a whole bunch up and have that person distribute them..

Just a thought.  :D


No moving parts? Pardon the ignorance, but how does that work?
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: myke_w on January 19, 2007, 07:30:42 am
Not sure exactly, Never ripped one down.. but they are damn good.. I might be wrong about no moving parts... definitely no electronic motor though..

Here's the datasheet
http://www.facet-purolator.com/solidstate.asp

Here's a pic if interested:
(http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~mw105397/pics/SALES/elec_pump_solid_state.jpg)
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: jtanguay on January 19, 2007, 07:34:12 am
Quote from: Turbinepowered
Quote from: myke_w
FWIW:
I can supply 12v - 4.5 psi solid state pumps for around 50 USD shipped in the us.. These have no moving parts, and are practically indestructible..   I can get Canadian shipping prices if people are interested.. If enough folks up north were interested and I could find a partner, I could ship a whole bunch up and have that person distribute them..

Just a thought.  :D


No moving parts? Pardon the ignorance, but how does that work?


yea i'm interested in that pump.  sounds just what i need!  no moving parts!!!! indestructible... even better!!!!  :twisted:

i'm just throwing this out there, but would it work like a subwoofer/vacuum pump to create the pressure using a diaphram??? so it uses magnetic power to create the pressure and a check valve not much unlike a vacuum pump...  sounds good to me
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: myke_w on January 19, 2007, 07:40:57 am
I really don't think it has any diaphragms either.. I'm ashamed to say I really have no clue how they work.. I know they are beefy though, I've used one for years for all sorts of fluid transfer, never misses a beat.
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: veeman on January 19, 2007, 07:44:13 am
Sounds like a nice pump to try...  I wonder how it'd hold up to biodiesel.  Bio likes to eat anything made from natural rubber (although not viton or most plastics).    

As far as installing,  I guess you could simply put it on a separated keyed power circuit with an inline fuse... Hmmm..   Would you mount it back by the tank or up front to "pull" the fuel into the IP?
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: myke_w on January 19, 2007, 07:53:04 am
Quote
I wonder how it'd hold up to biodiesel. Bio likes to eat anything made from natural rubber (although not viton or most plastics).


I think it would withstand biodiesel with no problem, mine has held up just fine, and according to the mfgr
"Fuel Compatibility: No rubber diaphragms or valves to
swell or deteriorate in alcohol blended fuels. Compatible
with leaded and unleaded gasoline, diesel fuel, blended
alcohol fuels, and fuel additives."


Quote
Would you mount it back by the tank or up front to "pull" the fuel into the IP?


Per the mfgr "For best results, mount the pump close to the fluid or fuel tank and below the liquid level."  

This pump (like almost any other) pushes fuel, it does not pull it, there are very few pumps that can achieve a prime from a dry line. That would be called a lift pump,(one that can pull enough vacuum on air to move liquid) which is exactly what the lift portion of an injection pump is.
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: nkb on January 19, 2007, 09:52:28 am
i have one of those pumps, i use it for the nitrous setup on my bike because of the whole gravity fed carbs.. they work great!
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: Master ACiD on January 19, 2007, 01:19:31 pm
if you mount the inline pump, just power it off the injection pump solenoid circuit. . that way whenever the engine is running the pump is runinng.
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: myke_w on January 19, 2007, 07:41:46 pm
I'd suggest fusing it and running it off a switched relay direct from the battery, just in case it draws more amps than the pump solenoid was intended to use..  8)
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on January 19, 2007, 08:31:26 pm
I've heard also having it powered by the glow relay can help starting.
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: 2mAn on January 19, 2007, 11:14:18 pm
wow that looks great

so it will smooth out the idle, help cold starts, & have more fuel delivery at higher rpms for just $50. i think you better find a distributer
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: hillfolk'r on January 19, 2007, 11:22:49 pm
Quote from: myke_w
Not sure exactly, Never ripped one down.. but they are damn good.. I might be wrong about no moving parts... definitely no electronic motor though..

Here's the datasheet
http://www.facet-purolator.com/solidstate.asp

Here's a pic if interested:
(http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~mw105397/pics/SALES/elec_pump_solid_state.jpg)



i used to work on all kinds of engines and equipment
we need  a pump bigger than one of those,,it wont flow enough
and ive had those fail quite a bit actually
they end up still ticking/making pumping noises,but wont pump fuel...
i used the next bigger one that looks like a can,it still didnt give positive pressure
use a cis pump with a bypass regulator
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: nkb on January 20, 2007, 02:12:41 am
fail quite a bit?? like is that under constant use? if these are failure prone im gonna dump it fast for next bike season, at 300 for a set of pistons and cylinders that are no longer avaliable
i don't want to depend on some crap pump!! i just liked it cuz it was small and has little draw on my electrical
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: burn_your_money on January 20, 2007, 03:51:39 am
I'll be a Canadian distributer :)

This is probably exactly what my car needs to get rid of the stupid air bubbles

Looks like these will only be good for 1 Canadian winter
"• Corrosion Resistant over 100 hours of salt spry"
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: myke_w on January 20, 2007, 06:39:29 am
I can also get 6psi ones if flow is an issue.  Personally I've had no issues with my pump, or any I've installed to aid failing lift pumps on customers cars.. but I'm only one data point. All I know is that these are better than similarly priced motor driven pumps.
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: jtanguay on January 20, 2007, 09:33:11 am
well any pump is better than no pump... as long as its reliable.
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: RabbitGTDguy on January 20, 2007, 09:55:20 am
any pump is better than no pump...

I at first opted for a Holley Blue pump but didn't like how high the pressure was (open flow...14psi)... so I went down to the Holley Red pump which is 7psi and it does the job quite nicely. A little more rubber insulation to keep it from making any contact at the mounting point and I'll even be happy with its sound. I may try and relocate it to the upper inside of the p. side fenderwell...we'll see. To clean things up a bit...

I have a facet pump on my 72 Westy w/ 2.0 TypIV motor w/ dual 36mm Dells and I'll be replacing it in favor of the holley style pump this winter. It periodically decided not too work this summer and caused the first ever issues I've had on the TypII

A pic...
you can kinda see the holley red in this pic (far left-hand side) ... like I said...hopefully moving the filter (maybe upgrade the filter too)  as well as the pump this winter...

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/joeallison_99/79%20Rabbit%20DD/100_2755.jpg)

Joe
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: jackbombay on January 20, 2007, 10:03:49 am
$30 (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1475488&postcount=45)
Title: up front
Post by: lacolocho on January 22, 2007, 01:28:49 am
i've mostly heard it recommended to put them up front before the fuel filter

here's another one for $55:
http://www.greaseworks.org/index.php?module=pncommerce&func=itemview&ItemID=35
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: jtanguay on January 22, 2007, 03:57:44 am
i think some failures of these pumps could be related to wiring... i've had times where i had a solenoid not work and just because the button i used didn't flow enough power...  i think these little pumps are possibly more power hungry than advertised..
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: burn_your_money on January 22, 2007, 04:38:29 am
Quote from: "jtanguay"
i think some failures of these pumps could be related to wiring... i've had times where i had a solenoid not work and just because the button i used didn't flow enough power...  i think these little pumps are possibly more power hungry than advertised..


I think that might have to do with where you mount them and how hard they have to work to pump the fuel.
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: veeman on January 22, 2007, 12:05:10 pm
So... the guy in jackbombay's link says he's going to mount his between the filter and the IP.   If the pump pushes fuel, wouldn't it be better to put it before the filter to make sure it's filled while running?   What's the consensus?

I'm interested in this solution... I can never seem to get rid of the bubbles in my supply line no matter how I've tried to look at the different hoses and replace filters.  A bit more of a consistent flow up top to go with the Giles pump would be a good thing too...
Title: Benefits of an inline fuel pump
Post by: jtanguay on January 22, 2007, 12:49:37 pm
i have no idea how this pump actually works or what the internals look like... but just from the sounds of it, think of a speaker and how it 'pushes' air at a certain frequency to create sound.  i believe this pump uses movement like that of a speaker to 'push' fuel, and some sort of check valve so that the fuel that is in the pump at the time of pushing does not go reverse, and when it retracts it does not let fuel back in from the out port.

i cannot see this pump 'priming' itself or even sucking fuel.  the best spot to mount it would be right back at the tank, at the lowest point.  Make sure you have nice thick insulated wires going back there to feed it too.  solder the connections too, do NOT crimp the wires together!  it will work soooo good!

plus, if it is the speaker like type, i only see extreme heat being the culprit for it breaking.  as in any stereo equipment...  but at the same time, extreme cold may wreck the pump if it is using the magnetic pumping system... because the magnets would heat up really quickly they may be prone to 'cracking'  :?

not saying that these pumps are bad or anything... but they're made in China right?  :lol:

http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/olivercheng/product-detailHQJEKExjxnmA/China-Cube-Solid-State-Pumps-Electric-fuel-pump-.html