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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: intramural on February 15, 2021, 12:41:59 pm
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Hey all, In October '19 I did a 1Y swap with a turbo on a 81' Caddy with my, now late, father.
-The engine came from Thomas at Quality German Auto Parts.
-We had Giles rebuild the pump.
-The turbo is a Garret k14 off a junkyard Golf TDI.
-We put in a torque tamer and a lower sub frame.
-It has a rebuilt 020 transmission with a poor mans LSD (traction concepts) for snow. In retrospect, I'm not so sure traction concepts was the best Idea... we'll find out.
It drives great (other than the cab smells like exhaust on long downhills) and is a treasured keepsake of my father for me!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50946805253_333931eec8.jpg) Before
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50947605702_2d751ba232.jpg) All Done!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50946805038_b20f2ba9fa.jpg) Under the Hood
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50947605632_cdb0a1438c.jpg)(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50947605677_6a295d5ae2.jpg) In the Stand
Okay. So it's been cold in Colorado like -6F/-21C. The other day I checked the oil and had a bit of condensation on the dipstick. NBD, I thought it just wasn't hot enough to burn off all the moisture. Drove it about 150 Miles and noticed it was running a bit hot and low on coolant, the coolant was a bit murky, I just assumed it was old. I drove it some more now the coolant looks like this (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50946805753_4c73090c14.jpg) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50947606117_0d43f3410c.jpg) :'( It used to be nice pink pentosin.
I never run sustained EGT over 900F/482C. EGT usually lives at 600F and I don't drive it hard at all.
I'm thinking I'm about to lose the head gasket :o I'm hoping it's a leak in the oil cooler. Before I take off the head I was thinking about draining the coolant/ oil, then replacing the cooler. I figure it's best to fill it up with the cheap mobile synth oil and cheap coolant just to see if that was the problem and not waste $ on the pentosin until I know its fixed.
Worst case I have to redo the head gasket. Of course this is the only gasket my dad and I didn't do on the initial swap. How difficult is a head gasket? Does anyone have other ideas of what could be going on?
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I for one would be looking at the simpler O rings on the oil cooler. Pulling that cooler is nothing compared to doing a head gasket. Check that the coolant lines can hold pressure and vacuum. With it, off the car, I am sure you can come up with something to do that easily.
I for number two would be checking the torque on the head bolts. After a rebuild they may be a bit less than spec and can be tightened down again. Saves doing a whole head gasket.
To check if there is a head gasket problem put one of those thin mechanics gloves on the coolant reservoir before you start it up. Then start and see if it inflates if it does, guess where the air is coming from. Not by cylinder mind you that would be incredible if you could. That will let you know how deep to go for fixes.
All of what I just said can be done in a short morning or afternoon and cost next to nada. So try them and report back. I am banking on the oil cooler gaskets or the cooler itself.
Hope it goes well.
And just where did you get that front bumper?
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I for one would be looking at the simpler O rings on the oil cooler. Pulling that cooler is nothing compared to doing a head gasket. Check that the coolant lines can hold pressure and vacuum. With it, off the car, I am sure you can come up with something to do that easily.
Yep. Phew! Turns out it was just the nut holding the cooler onto the flange... I think. The whole cooler was pretty dang loose when I got the hoses off, I could just spin it left and right. The nut itself was not even hand tight. The filter being threaded on was probably the only thing keeping the cooler from gushing oil. I'll probably have a radiator shop pressure test the cooler anyway as long as I have it off. The o-rings look fine to me.
The only thing that has me scratching my head is that there is no surface oil on the coolant I drained. Coolant is between an orange/brown and pink color. Is it possible a small amount of the oil got emulsified in the coolant?
My plan from here is to put in clean oil, drive it around with just water in system to make sure its staying clean. Then change oil again to flush and put coolant in the system.
The bumpers LOL! My dad got them on amazon, smittybilt for a jeep wrangler. Some people love them, some people hate them, my dad loved them so I keep them. They for sure save me from having to replace the plastic grill etc. that stuff isn't cheap now-a-days. Never worry when I am parallel parked either.
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OK, nice to know. IF you are planning on running Just Water in the cooling system I sure hope you are living in Maimi, FL. The rest of the nation seems to be running a bit cool right now. I live where the temps are pretty stable between 40 and 60 F most of the year but if I leave the coast I better have real antifreeze in the system or risk a boil over in the valley.
Did you know that VW actually made a bumper for the front end that looks a lot like what you have going?
I found one in MI and had it sent to me. AND just the other night I was on Craigslist and found another, again in MI. Don't know why they have them. Only two I ever saw. I have one on my truck and it does protect the grill. But I don't think it will have much effect on anything smacking right into it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7qxafm7a6c5863g/2019-12-08%2014.03.18.jpg?dl=0
Glad you got it sorted out. I think the oil mixed with the antifreeze and if you let some sit out in a bucket it might sheen on the top in time. As for the color? Time to flush the system maybe while you are at it. The heater core can be a bugger.
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Copy. It's supposed to be 38F in Denver tomorrow, I was just going to run water for an hour or so of driving to make sure its staying clean, then drain and put mixed coolant in. Is that not a good idea?
Regardless, I'm still not sure that the cooler being loose would cause coolant to get into the oil unless there is an issue with my cooler. So I am still puzzled about what is causing the condensation on the dipstick and oil cap.
I may have been going crazy when I was driving it yesterday, I do recall a faint smell of antifreeze, maybe the heater core going out is whats causing the discoloration in the coolant? ayayay
I didn't know that about the bumpers. It looks super clean on yours. Mine never had a rear bumper so I would be looking for a full set. Sweet headlights by the way.
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HA! Just went out and looked below the heater core... low and behold! (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50948506386_97dd55deb2.jpg)
If I'm ever in California, I'll buy you a beer. Maybe I'll feel differently after I actually swap out the core. It looks like not-a-much fun.
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So it is heater core time? I just put a new one in my Caddy and I did it without pulling much of it out of the car. I loosened up the motor and was able to remove that plastic cover on the side. Then I wiggled the whole thing down to where I could get at the hoses and wiring. The ground is up there and I did have a sore neck the next day but I got it swapped over without much of a mess to the carpet.
I pulled the thermostat and drained the system down a bit. You will be doing that to change the water for antifreeze. Nothing wrong with putting water in there and running it a bit around town to circulate the coolant. Just didn't think leaving it to freeze up overnight would be a good idea.
I think I got my heater core from RockAuto. Still have the old one. My problem was not the core but the hoses that were attached to it. Maybe I can use it as a mini radiator or intercooler.
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Is that an AC car or not?
Probably non-AC right?
That should be easy,.. standing on your head under the dash
but other than that.
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So it is heater core time? I just put a new one in my Caddy and I did it without pulling much of it out of the car. I loosened up the motor and was able to remove that plastic cover on the side. Then I wiggled the whole thing down to where I could get at the hoses and wiring. The ground is up there and I did have a sore neck the next day but I got it swapped over without much of a mess to the carpet.
I pulled the thermostat and drained the system down a bit. You will be doing that to change the water for antifreeze. Nothing wrong with putting water in there and running it a bit around town to circulate the coolant. Just didn't think leaving it to freeze up overnight would be a good idea.
I think I got my heater core from RockAuto. Still have the old one. My problem was not the core but the hoses that were attached to it. Maybe I can use it as a mini radiator or intercooler.
I just bought my heater core from O'Reilly, Spectra premium makes it, the guy who pressure tested my oil cooler says it was good. Hopefully this one lasts another 40 years lol. Hopefully this also fixes my coolant problems.
Is that an AC car or not?
Probably non-AC right?
That should be easy,.. standing on your head under the dash
but other than that.
Swapping out the core was no issue at all! Pretty easy actually.
When I drained the oil, I didn't see any obvious signs of coolant mixing. Perhaps I was just overreacting and it was just ambient condensation in the crank case/dipstick after all. I am running a cooler thermostat: 80C/176F. I have the 87/190 Thermostat. I was debating on swapping them out since I never have overheating issues other than low speeds (10-20mph) on steep hills, I will probably get better MPG. I am not running an intercooler so I'm a bit worried about EGT. Would the warmer tstat have any significant effect on EGT?
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Here is my knowledge of thermostats. Diesel likes it hotter than cooler. I run the 87C one in my car. Love that fast heat in the mornings and I do get better mileage for it.
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I for one would be looking at the simpler O rings on the oil cooler. Pulling that cooler is nothing compared to doing a head gasket. Check that the coolant lines can hold pressure and vacuum. With it, off the car, I am sure you can come up with something to do that easily.
Yep. Phew! Turns out it was just the nut holding the cooler onto the flange... I think. The whole cooler was pretty dang loose when I got the hoses off, I could just spin it left and right. The nut itself was not even hand tight. The filter being threaded on was probably the only thing keeping the cooler from gushing oil. I'll probably have a radiator shop pressure test the cooler anyway as long as I have it off. The o-rings look fine to me.
A thing that might get abused, is the torque of the oil cooler oring nut, its a very loose fit...
If you overtighten it it will shorten the orings lifespan and could blow without warning.
The torque spec is 18 ft/lbs or 25Nm just in case your not aware...
The nut on my cooler, was not even hand tight. Unfortunately, this was not my problem after all. Thanks for the heads up on the torque. I have both the MKIII and MKI bently manuals, I always torque to spec. 18ftlbs felt tight to me, but I turn until I get a click.
After driving for a few minutes with the new heater core and oil cooler tightened down (o-ring replaced) the water I had in there is completely filled with diesel exhaust and a few specks of oil. Das Scheiße!
Per ORCoasters advice, I get intermittent small bubbles in the top coolant overflow hose. I think I am catching this pretty early it's not death bubbling, but every now and then small bubbles.
So it looks like I am in for a new head gasket. How difficult is this repair? I have never done the timing etc. without my dad so I'm in it for the long haul.
AFAIK sounds like: Drain the oil and water > Clean like heck > Mark the pulleys and timing belt > Pull water lines and crank case vent pipe > Pull fuel injector lines > disconnect exhaust > remove valve cover > remove timing belt cam pulley fuel pump pulley and that inside plate > pull the head.
I'm going to order the kit from either parts place or autohausaz. Do I need to measure cylinder head protrusion or can I just use the same #notch gasket? I can do this and leave the intake/exhaust attached correct?
Next Clean like heck again > reverse order putting together and redo the timing.
There was a pretty helpful Samba post on this. Am I missing anything?
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AFAIK sounds like: Drain the oil and water Just need to drain the water
> Clean like heck
> Mark the pulleys and timing belt Nope, you can do that but what you really need to do is get the tools that keep the cam from moving, I use a door hinge folder over, one I have is a perfect fit. Then peg the IP with something about 11 mm or in my case a 3/4 inch carriage bolt, a bit lose but not bad.
> Pull water lines and crankcase vent pipe You just need to undo the few hoses that attach to the head and move them out of the way. I find the less I pull hoses the better.
> Pull fuel injector lines Yes, easier to do that than pull the injectors and deal with the heat shield issue.
> disconnect exhaust
> remove valve cover I actually do this second, first it manually turn the engine to TDC using the flywheel mark
> remove timing belt cam pulley, you only need to loosen it so it spins free from the cam, you can't get the belt on the right if the cam pulley is tight. Getting it free may take some effort, use a wrench on the cam lobes to keep the cam from turning, yeah a big wrench.
>fuel pump pulley This pulley needs to stay on so it can get pinned through to the bracket on the engine and not lose the #1 cylinder place that is linked to TDC.
>and that inside plate Nope, leave it in place. You are not removing the pulley or the IP. It stays stationary.
> pull the head. I prefer to take the intake off as well as it helps lighten the load and lets you get to the exhaust easier. I have no lift so I must lean over the engine to lift the head and that is like the worst lifting position ever. May do my back in one day doing it.
Refer to the Bentley you have. It may make more sense to you now.
I'm going to order the kit from either parts place or autohausaz. Do I need to measure cylinder head protrusion or can I just use the same #notch gasket? I can do this and leave the intake/exhaust attached correct?
Once you have the head off and inspect and clean the piston tops of all the crud and build up you need to measure how high the pistons protrude over the top of the block. Then look in the Bentley for the correct notched gasket for that amount of protrusion. Lots of folks do one of two things, they buy what they had or they just buy the three-notch one. Doing either is not correct and it will cost you in easy start-ups when cold and it will lessen your MPGs. If you can source a place local that can get you a gasket in a day or so then do it that way rather than try to get it with your kit. You could buy both and return the one you don't need. May save shipping if it makes your total order over the price point they want. It will cost just a few bucks to send it back.
This is my advice. Do as you will just don't hold me accountable if it goes south on you. Hope this helps get you started.
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This is a highly recommended non-hardening head gasket sealer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hylomar-M-Aerosol-Spray-Version-200ml-61311/182447853728?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
But do your own research, there may be some applications (or certain head gaskets) that don't recommend it.
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I use that or the copper spray when replacing a head gasket. Hylomar developed specifically for Rolls-Royce airplane engines if I remember correctly.
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Okay. I ordered the hylomar in a little tube from parts place with the 12point bit.
I bought the 3 and 2 notch gaskets... as I currently have the 3.
I have the official VW cam lock. But I seem to recall we had to use feeler gauges to get a tight fit after so many years of use by my father. Or perhaps its just a steel bar my dad kept with the dial indicator. Either way, she goes.
I know for sure my injection pump pullley lock is the legit VW one.
I think I am understanding you correctly that if I have the flywheel at TDC and the pump at TDC and I use the cam lock when I put it all back together I will NOT have to re-time the injection pump? I will be able to simply re-tension the belt and be all good?
I find my mk1 Bentley for stuff like this AFAIK the procedure should be the same just with AAZ torque specs?
Trust me I am well aware that this is my *** up if I do it wrong haha! I really do appreciate all the help, and I am excited to give it a shot myself. Definitely makes me miss my old man... although I wish we had just done the head gasket when we got the engine from Thomas as quality. Ay Caramba!
Side note after all this is done I was considering having the local radiator shop make an inter cooler to go in front of the radiator. Is this worthwhile given my sustained EGT of 900-1000 on longer climbs? I have an old GTI intercooler, but there doesn't seem like a good place to put it... maybe below the battery? of course the thing is coated in exhaust gas gunk and oil too :P Thoughts?
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I think I am understanding you correctly that if I have the flywheel at TDC and the pump at TDC and I use the cam lock when I put it all back together I will NOT have to re-time the injection pump? I will be able to simply re-tension the belt and be all good?
It will most likely start but you'd most likely need to time the injector pump to make it perfect.
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Okay great, thank you. I'm starting the removal tonight. Wish me luck.
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Okay I did lot more reading and all of this makes waaaaaaaay more sense now. I feel a lot more comfortable with the project.
When I removed the valve cover both the camshaft and flywheel were about 5deg off TDC from the injection pump. My dad and I timed the IP about 15k miles ago. Is this a normal amount of variance after that much driving, or did we just not do a very good job of timing? The engine always seemed to start right up and ran great.
Also where do you all buy your valve cover gaskets? The only place that actually seems to have a 1Y/AAZ valve cover gasket is tectonics tuning. The other parts stores always pull up something closer to an AHU gasket.
Cheers. Thanks for helping me.
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If you do not loosen the injection pump mounting bolts and return the belt to the same tooth, the injection pump timing will be the same before/after.
The tube of hylomar is a bad idea for use on a head gasket. No way to spread it evenly and lightly enough. You'll get blobs in the cooling system.
On the other hand, the spray cans of hylomar are EXCELLENT for head gaskets. IMO the copper spray is a poor substitute. A very light spray of the hylomar on all four surfaces (head, block, both sides of gasket) eliminates the pesky weeping oil leaks at the drains and the high pressure port to the head between 3 & 4. When I say a very light spray, I mean it. Not enough to make the surface look blue. Just enough to make it look kind of wet.
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If you do not loosen the injection pump mounting bolts and return the belt to the same tooth, the injection pump timing will be the same before/after.
The tube of hylomar is a bad idea for use on a head gasket. No way to spread it evenly and lightly enough. You'll get blobs in the cooling system.
On the other hand, the spray cans of hylomar are EXCELLENT for head gaskets. IMO the copper spray is a poor substitute. A very light spray of the hylomar on all four surfaces (head, block, both sides of gasket) eliminates the pesky weeping oil leaks at the drains and the high pressure port to the head between 3 & 4. When I say a very light spray, I mean it. Not enough to make the surface look blue. Just enough to make it look kind of wet.
Thanks I was curious about that in regards to spray vs. tube. That makes perfect sense.
I'm going to verify the pump timing regardless at this point, since it seems like the whole engine was just a little off. I remember now that my dad and Installed the timing belt without the transmission attached. which explains why the flywheel was a little forward.
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Okay I successfully got the head out with minimal cursing. I do have the hylomar spray now too.
Here is the block. I just vacuumed out the pistons for now, before I deep clean.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50986706518_4883b8cd05_o.jpg
The pre-chambers and the bridge in between the valves all have small cracks like this one.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50987522632_dcecaa1d65_o.png
Here is the old head gasket. It doesn't look unusual to me. Just old. IDK
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50987417716_cddf159a26_o.jpg
Am I totally done for with this head? time for a new one, or is this normal wear and tear? Quality German has a new one for $900
If it's still usable my plan is to do the following:
Scrape big gunk off very carefully with new razor blades.
Then clean everything with diesel and fine grit sand paper and a very flat block.
Final clean with brake parts cleaner.
Put humpty dumpty back together again.
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Just a heads up, that location for your EGT probe is not good. That is a very stagnant area. It renders the reading from the gauge meaningless. You want the probe directly in the exhaust flow and preferably where all 4 runners have come together.
The cracks in the precups can either remain the same for a long time or they can grow quickly and cause the insert to crank in half and fall into the cylinder, ruining the engine. If you can find them, then replacing them is a good idea, IMO.
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Just a heads up, that location for your EGT probe is not good. That is a very stagnant area. It renders the reading from the gauge meaningless. You want the probe directly in the exhaust flow and preferably where all 4 runners have come together.
The cracks in the precups can either remain the same for a long time or they can grow quickly and cause the insert to crank in half and fall into the cylinder, ruining the engine. If you can find them, then replacing them is a good idea, IMO.
Meaningless, as in way to low? Or just absolutely meaningless?
The prechamber cracks are a bummer. I am worried about the cracks in the valve seats as well. It doesn't seem like there is an obvious place to even buy the prechambers.
I'm going to take the head to a local VW machine shop on Monday and see what they say. I need to get it checked for straightness any way. I might reach out to Thomas at quality as well and see what he has for heads. $900 is pretty steep but I don't want to do this again.
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That EGT probe location causes both a low reading and a additional lag to the reading. It is a dead-end location for flow. Imagine placing a thermocouple in a tin can with open end aimed at the flame but to the side of an oxy-acetylene torch vs. having the probe actually in the flame. In other words, your pistons or turbine fins could be melting for a minute or more while the gauge still reads safe. I doubt you ever see near actual peak temps with that probe location.
Here's where I installed an EGT probe into a VNT15:
(https://i.imgur.com/Py2pcskh.jpg)
It looks like Brickwerks in the UK sells the inserts. Pricey, but certainly less than a new head:
https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/diesel-pre-combustion-chamber-1-9td.html
A few years back NAPA actually sold them although I haven't checked in a while. I have no idea if they still do.
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That EGT probe location causes both a low reading and a additional lag to the reading. It is a dead-end location for flow. Imagine placing a thermocouple in a tin can with open end aimed at the flame but to the side of an oxy-acetylene torch vs. having the probe actually in the flame. In other words, your pistons or turbine fins could be melting for a minute or more while the gauge still reads safe. I doubt you ever see near actual peak temps with that probe location.
Yeah that makes sense looking at this. I pulled out the probe and it seems to be pretty long. long enough where it would be getting an accurate reading... I also readily believe that I could be wrong.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50987250183_b4f933af9e_z.jpg)
It looks like Brickwerks in the UK sells the inserts. Pricey, but certainly less than a new head:
Awesome dude! Thanks for the part #! I was able to find some other sites selling them. Nothing in the US yet. I'm going to wait to buy them until I have the machine shop look at the head.
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If all else fails and you decided to replace the head there is a new cylinderhead on from Topline on ebay now:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-9-1992-1997-VW-AAZ-NEW-BARE-CYLINDER-HEAD-TURBO-NON-TURBO-DIESEL/274695551628?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
You might be able to swap over the valves. Not mine or anyone i know.
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If all else fails and you decided to replace the head there is a new cylinderhead on from Topline on ebay now:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-9-1992-1997-VW-AAZ-NEW-BARE-CYLINDER-HEAD-TURBO-NON-TURBO-DIESEL/274695551628?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
You might be able to swap over the valves. No mine or anyone i know.
I don't think I am prepared to rebuild a head. Camshaft swap seems easy enough, but the valves and lifters look complex and like they require tools I don't posses. Right now quality has a new made in Germany head. Seems way more expensive and way easier. I think if the head is bunk I'll probably go with the new one.
I'm concerned that when I take the head to the machine shop they might tell me they need to weld the seats together. From the research I have done it's more likely this will make things worse and I am better off putting the $ towards a new one.
This is turning into quite the project. Although, I'm glad I am able to do it myself. It's easy to imagine that a repair shop would have simply replaced the 3 notch gasket and called it good. Then again, who knows.
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As I am prepping the head for the machine shop. I am starting to ponder what could cause the head gasket to fail in the first place. I have done a bit of research, and this seems to be a lot more common on the IDI engines.
My mind initially goes to running EGT too high, especially given Libby's comment on my probe location. I have the boost set for 10PSI, no inter-cooler. The engine has never overheated.
Before I removed the head when it was running I would get a somewhat loud intermittent crack/tap from the engine, but I didn't think much of it. The fuel pulley was a little advanced... could this at all be related?
Curious if y'all have any ideas. Thanks again for all the help so far.
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Well I took the head into the machine shop and the
block *( edit: head)* is warped. Scheiße
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How did you determine that the block is warped? How warped is it?
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How did you determine that the block is warped? How warped is it?
Originally I took it to the local VW machine shop, they wouldn't even look at it and sent me down the street to a different shop. The guy at that shop was fairly helpful and he put a machinist straight edge on it and shined a flashlight from underneath and determined it was warped. He didn't say how bad.
Now, today I am taking it to an, apparently more reputable, machine shop and I will see what they say. A guy I know has had them clean hone and deck some IDI blocks. So we'll see.
In the meantime... AYAYAY! It seems like there is no such thing as a correct answer. I called a local TDI specialist who is highly recommended on TDIclub about my situation he was very kind and helpful. He basically said this whole thing was ***ed and I'm asking for far too much power from "yestertech."
Then I called Thomas at quality German and he was like "meh I wouldn't even replace the prechambers its a pain in the ass." I also found out he is out of new heads.
Was the tdi guy right? It was my understanding that this AAZ setup I am running is actually fairly common and reliable. Cheers.
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The more reputable machine shop measured the head actually using feeler gauges and the
2.5mm *(edit 0.0025)* feeler was still catching on the straight edge. By my understanding that's well within spec. So I think I am going to keep using this head.
This leaves me with the prechambers. I read some posts on the prechambers that are pretty old, and I am having trouble finding good info about replacing them. How difficult is it really? can I just knock them out with a punch via the injector hole and then tap new ones in with a block of wood?
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You said the block was warped. Are you talking about the head or the block? I thought you left the block in the vehicle and removed the head from it.
2.5mm warp sounds like a LOT. I briefly looked for a spec (thought there was one) but couldn't find it. I've hand lapped heads with good results but I don't think I have removed 2.5mm. That Topline head looks like a good deal to me. You could certainly use your cam and valve springs. Maybe the valves also although they may not be the same. I'd investigate replacement valves before purchasing just to be sure they are available.
How much power are you trying to make with the engine? How much boost are you running? The IDI engines are relatively reliable. TDI engines are more reliable, give better torque and better fuel economy, but the IDI engines are decent. Who was the
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Gahh! I'm sorry to waste your time. I need to proof read my posts better! Too much coffee this morning.
The 0.0025 feeler guages were not clearing the straight edge on my HEAD. I hope that clears things up.
*edit*
I don't have a specific HP target. I had Giles do the pump but specifically mentioned that my goal was fuel economy and reliability. I am running 10psi of boost no inter-cooler.
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0.0025" warp is fine.
I would replace the pre-combustion chamber (PCC) inserts if you can purchase new ones.
I would not have someone machine the head as it can loosen the PCC inserts. I would choose to hand lap the head instead of having it machined.
From your description of the power you are pushing from the engine, it should reliably last a good long time.
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Perfect that's exactly what I needed to know. Thanks for walking me through this.
Based off how this vehicle drives I would be surprised if I am getting more than the 75HP its rated for. Perhaps I am getting 80 HP.
I am not sure if I want to wait to get the pre combustion chambers from Europe, or if I feel comfortable replacing them. I am worried that I might loosen up the seats knocking them out. At this point I am leaning towards buying a new head if I can source one. If this was my weekend car and I had no problem doing this all over again I might consider trying to replace the pre chambers... but it's not and I am ready to get back on the road and be confident in the head I put on there.
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Prechambers from a 1.5 head will fit.
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Good to know. I have searched around and nobody has a good engine head. Now I am thinking that I am better off replacing my pre-chambers and calling it good. The ones from parts place are made in Taiwan... better than china, but I don't think its worth $1000 which is what they want for them. They are made by a company called ARCO.
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I called parts place back and I guess the guy who I was talking to didn't know they also had amc heads. So I bought one of those.
I'll probably sell my old one to somebody who feels better about replacing the inserts.
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Hey all. I know you all have been sitting around thinking about my thread so I figured I would give you an update ;). I had a family emergency come up. So I haven't touched the caddy.
The new AMC head and small parts are all here. I am thinking I will put the new head on on Friday. I am also going to add an out front air to air inter-cooler.
Side note I have an AHU thats running pretty badly and was thinking about parting it out if libby was interested in the pump/injectors for mtdi purposes.
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Hey All. So its been a busy few weeks for me, but I was finally able to get back to putting this all together.
I got the head and all the Gaskets etc on just fine and dandy. Then it was time to do the timing belt and I noticed I have some in/out (axial?) play on my intermediate shaft pulley. Arrrrg!
Id say its about 1mm of in out play. Is this normal?
...or is it more likely my dad and I installed the old timing belt too tight and now the bearings are shot? please help me... I am about to just push this thing off a damn cliff.
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How many miles on the engine? IF it is not leaking I think it would be good enough to go as is.
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How many miles on the engine? IF it is not leaking I think it would be good enough to go as is.
Thanks for the reply OR. I have no idea how many miles. My dad ordered it from Thomas at quality before he ran it. ...supposedly less than 100k miles.
No leaks from the intermediate shaft at all. No leaks/play in the injection pump pulley at all either.
I was thinking about popping off the intermediate shaft thrust ring, and if that looks good just calling it good.
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The spec for axial play on the intermediate shaft is 0.25mm. 1.0 is a LOT and 4X spec! Measure so you know for sure. Excessive axial play on the intermediate shaft usually means is that the thrust ring on the shaft is broken. If that is the case, then no, that's not ok to run as is. Running with the thrust ring broken runs a very serious risk of ruining/breaking/throwing the timing belt.
To be clear, what I am calling the 'thrust ring' is a machined lip of the outer bearing journal of the intermediate shaft. The part that bolts onto the block and holds the intermediate shaft in place, I call the intermediate shaft seal carrier.
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The spec for axial play on the intermediate shaft is 0.25mm. 1.0 is a LOT and 4X spec! Measure so you know for sure. Excessive axial play on the intermediate shaft usually means is that the thrust ring on the shaft is broken. If that is the case, then no, that's not ok to run as is. Running with the thrust ring broken runs a very serious risk of ruining/breaking/throwing the timing belt.
To be clear, what I am calling the 'thrust ring' is a machined lip of the outer bearing journal of the intermediate shaft. The part that bolts onto the block and holds the intermediate shaft in place, I call the intermediate shaft seal carrier.
Thanks Libby. in my research before posting I saw this thread: http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,37016.0.html
You are right I just need to measure. Measuring is knowing.
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Well. I put the 'ol dial indicator and bridge on there. I took several measurements, and consistently got 0.0095" which according to google is 0.2413mm.
That leaves me with a whopping 0.0087mm to spare. I guess this way I know its bearing wear and not something broken. The question remains. Do I run as is?
How difficult is it to replace intermediate shaft bearings via removing the motor mounts and sliding it out below the wheel well? Probably pretty difficult.
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The replaceable intermediate shaft bearings affect radial play. They do not affect the axial play. If your axial play is 0.24mm, then it is perfectly fine. If you are concerned about the intermediate shaft bearings, then you could pull the shaft to see. If you do so, you'll want to replace the seal carrier o-ring.
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The replaceable intermediate shaft bearings affect radial play. They do not affect the axial play. If your axial play is 0.24mm, then it is perfectly fine. If you are concerned about the intermediate shaft bearings, then you could pull the shaft to see. If you do so, you'll want to replace the seal carrier o-ring.
Thanks Libby. I don't want to do so. I'll happily continue forward.
I will say I am surprised how significant .24mm felt with the pulley attached. I am glad you told me to measure.
I'm taking my niece skiing for two days, so I wont be able to turn the key until Friday or Saturday. I also mock fit an out front inter-cooler that will hopefully still fit with everything put together. I'll keep y'all in the loop.
Working on this car has really made me appreciate the miracle that most peoples cars work at all... then I remember they don't. What complex machines.
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Yeah, in and out would be thrust ring wear.
If the timing belt was too tight it would move side-to-side.
Actually it probably wouldn't move much when the bearing wears.
Because it chips out in pieces when it wears.
If you pull the intermediate shaft out a little you will see if the bearing is worn.
Pull the vacuum pump so you can support that end while pulling it out.
So the gears don't mess with the inner bearing.
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Thanks fatmobile. I am confident in my measurements of the axial play. So I am going to proceed without pulling the intermediate shaft.
Alright gang, it was a nice two days on the ski hill. I have the timing set. With the flywheel tick at exactly TDC, the cam lock slides in perfect, the IP lock slides in perfect, and the dial indicator reads .95mm of advance (per giles).
My only problem, is after a few turns of the crank the timing belt has moved about 1/2mm off the front of the IP pully. Does this mean my belt tension is off?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51073980793_a547c7fc4f_z.jpg) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51074778967_3136050fb9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kPev6K)
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Ugh! Does your engine use the tensioner with the built in tension gauge or is it the earlier version? The tensioner with the built in gauge is nice for removing the guesswork. Often the belt will track off the pump like that due to the belt being too tight. The twist method of gauging tension is terrible. If you are using a tensioner wrench when the nut is loose, the proper tension is just slightly tighter than the point the wrench will spring back to.
If the tension is not too tight, then the injection pump bracket needs to be adjusted:
(https://i.imgur.com/kcYKeGB.jpg)
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Yeah. I have the old style and cant use the built in guage tensioner. I was pretty annoyed that I don't have the notch that the little tab slides into. I actually bought both tensioners in hopes that I could use the built in gauge one.
Thanks for the insight libby. At least I'll get good practice verifying the timing.
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Well, I adjusted the bracket it made a bit of a difference. The belt isn't centered, its right on the face of the sprocket. Is it fine to run like this?
I also swapped out the head studs and put on the self indicating tensioner. I just cut a little hole on the steel guard thing. Now I know belt tension is correct. I torqued all the sprocket nuts to 55ftlbs. The people on tdi club had a big thread on it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51076402517_698cdf1456_z.jpg) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51076402637_923927734f_z.jpg)
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It's not great. If the bracket is already rotated as far as possible and you are sure the timing belt is not too tight, then I'd use a dremel to enlarge the holes on the bracket in order to get more adjustment.
I use 45 ft-lbs for the cam bolt while also making sure the cam and sprocket tapers are completely clean of any oil (brake parts cleaner). I don't think it is a good idea to torque higher than that. There is no reason I can see to go above spec for the torque on the pump sprocket nut or intermediate sprocket bolt as both of those are keyed.
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That belt alignment looks good to me. I would run it and watch it. If need be enlarge the holes. But for now it looks fine.
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I appreciate the feedback guys. I read through a few other threads and decided to go for it. I think that's pretty close to where my dad and I had it too, and we never had any issues.
I would like to have it perfectly centered but... I really don't wanna take the pump off again.
I think I might be able to turn the key tonight. Got anything else for me?
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The thing to check is exactly what the tech bulletin says. Run the engine a few seconds at idle with the crank pulley removed and then shut it down. If the belt protrudes past the face of the crank sprocket, it should be adjusted further. If not, then run it. The issue if it protrudes past the face of the crank sprocket is that it will wear both the belt and the crank pulley prematurely and that wear can accelerate. I have typically found that if the belt rides at the edge of the pump sprocket like that, it will protrude past the face of the sprocket but you might get lucky.
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Okay I'll at east check my poor workmanship the right way ;)
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Here is a shot of the crank sprocket after about 10 sec of idle.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51076824043_02932b9e3b_z.jpg)
Looks good to me.
Now something on my vacuum booster or brake reservoir is leaking ??? I didn't even touch the ***in' thing, and it worked fine when I tore the car apart.
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HO HO HO you have just been set up with the never-ending fix of the VW diesel engine. Nothing stays static very long. Always something to adjust, clean, or flat out fix. And my friends ask what I do with all my "spare" time.
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Ha, thanks Dad. And to think he loved them so much because they were so reliable... "as long as you take care of 'em"
I do really appreciate you guys helping me do this though. It seems to run well and starts right up. I tried to take a video but I can't figure out how to upload it.
Hopefully the servo booster isn't totally ***ed.
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The belt looks fine on the crank sprocket.
What symptoms are you seeing that tell you the booster is leaking?
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The belt looks fine on the crank sprocket.
What symptoms are you seeing that tell you the booster is leaking?
A hissing sound is coming directly from it. The noise lasts for 1-2 min after shutoff even it the engine is only ran for a few seconds. I haven't gotten much further than that.
Can I use some prestone or some other type of radiator cleaning fluid on my system to expedite the flushing process?
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Yeah its for sure the servo booster/related to it. If i press the brake with the car off the hissing gets louder. I have plenty of pressure, is the only puzzling part.
There's a snake in my booster!
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The hissing is not the release of pressure but the loss of vacuum in the booster. You can pull the line from the booster to the vac pump and test it with either pressure or vacuum and some soapy water. Where you get bubbles under pressure you have a leak.
If the booster itself is toast you can put a vacuum on it and listen for a leak there. My guess is that the line or the fittings are bad. They get more abuse than the booster. But those parts are available so a new booster would help you keep your brake system maintained. Fittings and check valves and hoses should be available at a local auto parts store. I don't think there is anything specific to VW that a universal part wouldn't work.
Yeah, just keep it maintained. LIKE WEEKLY for a while anyway.
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Well, I am happy to report that the vacuum leak was in fact hose that just needed to be snugged up.
Looking at the belt on the IP sprocket is driving me nuts though. I might have to go in and redo the bracket. I just really don't want to take my chances with the belt. UGH.
The thought of taking the pump off again has me pretty irritated too though.
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Okay Guys. I went back in and hogged out the holes on my mounting bracket.
After having the the pump on and off 5 times I feel OK about where I have it now.
IP Sprocket
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51083363848_772d7d1875_z.jpg)
Cam Sprocket
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51001890814_4ffda90a5f_z.jpg)
I looked down into the lower timing belt cover and the Crank sprocket looks like the injection pump one. What do y'all think?
Also, I took it out for a test drive at highway speeds, with a new longer probe egt. Libby you were 100% about my placement. With the new longer one I am seeing noticeably higher egt's. This is with my intercooler install which is putting in noticeably cooler charge air.
Thanks again for the help guys!
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Timing belt tracking looks good. It all ran well on the highway? Any untoward side effects or can we call it a win? :)
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Yeah, it ran great on the highway. I'm calling it a win for now, but I'm gonna keep my eye on everything for a little while.
I'm still flushing all the exhaust gas out of the coolant system too. But I think she's ready for the open road again.