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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: johnny on April 12, 2006, 06:24:42 am
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We are trying to build a pump for my 1.6 TD with the following components:
- TDI hydraulic head with 10 mm plunger
- TDI camplate
- Housing of the original 1.6 TD pump
- 1.6 TD original pressurevalves (located in the hydraulic head)
- Pumptiming 1,0 - 1,1 mm
- 155 bar GTD injectors
Does anyone knows if this is going to work all together or does anyone have usefull tips.
I know there are some well experienced pumpbuilders on this forum an every kind of help would be welcome.
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Why use a camplate from a different style engine?
Im no Diesel tech but I was always under the impression that the cam plate was matched to the type of engine, going from IDI to TDI seems a little peculiar.
The ramp angles and the height, well, everything, IDI and TDI are completely different.
Open to being proved wrong though. :)
I've also got a spare 10mm head and rotor which I was going to throw at this GTD pump for my T3 along with GTD injectors.
Also, I was under the impression that 1.1mm lift was a little too much, and 1.0mm was a safe amount of lift.
Again, no expert, just what I have read on the forum.
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Get the camplate from the new 1.9L idi pump...95mod I think.
Fits the tdi plunger and fits in the drive shaft.
3.3mm instead of 1.6L`2.2mm.
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The TDI camplate is even a little higher compared to the 1.9 IDI camplate and these are the parts we haven at the moment.
Mr Brick-Yard Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject:
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Why use a camplate from a different style engine?
The TDI camplate has a much higher lift as the stock one, so more feul pressure.
Yesterday I did the governer mod on the original pump by shimming the intermediate spring but I wasn't really impressed by the improvement.
Feels stronger between 2700-4500 rpm but not really impressing.
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Does anyone know the difference between the TDI-camplate and the one from a 1.9 IDI ?
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The TDI camplate has a much higher lift as the stock one, so more feul pressure.
Yeah, I appreciate that, but isn't the shape of the camplate designed for TDI applications and not IDI applications.
The TDI injectors are a totally different design, surely you keep TDI camplates for TDI's and IDI camplates for IDI's.
Again, just thinking out loud. Open to being proved wrong, just my perspective on things
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Does anyone know the difference between the TDI-camplate and the one from a 1.9 IDI ?
The lift of the TDI and 1.9TD camplates are similar but the rate of lift is higher on the TDI camplate. DI diesels usually run best when all of the fuel is injected within 30-35º crankshaft angle. IDI engines run best with the fuel injected within 35-40º crankshaft. I would expect an IDI engine with a TDI camplate to be very noisy. I think Marc (redrotors) has tried this combination in the past and found the idle quality was very poor as well.
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This isn't a big problem is it, just the right pumptiming and everything is allright.
Or isn't it ?
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Pump timing just changes the start of injection, it won't change the rate of injection. I would suggest using a 1.9TD camplate rather than the TDI camplate. It has the same lift as the TDI camplate but has the proper cam slope to work well with the IDI engine characteristics.
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i dont even know what camplate is in mine,,but it has great power,,,84 jetta 1.6td pump,12mm plunger/head,and its on a mech tdi,,??,,ill agree,,maybe the "corect"pump formy setup would have better power,,its pretty good right now,eventually i think ill have giles build me a new one though,more suited for the tdi :wink:
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my old 1.6L td had a custom 4bt and 1.6Td pump hybrid with a 12mm plunger and DI cam plate it ran great awesome actually ..134hp at the wheels on a dyno..lots of fuel...
later
Deo
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The TDI camplate is more aggressive than the 4bt camplate, there are pictures here someplace... Could be why it's noisier and idle quality is worse?
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don't forget there are many different profiles of each cam plate style ie many idi, many di camplates..even 4bts di 's have different profiles etc...
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hmm,,,maybe i should open up my 4b pump i got for "spare ",and measure camplate,rabbittree???? perform a swap,,idont even know what i got in there right now,,it maybe a 4b camplate,,but gotta find out sooner or later
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I think it is best to compare the placing of the cams of the 1.6 and the tdi camplate. If the cams are placed at the same place there isn't any problem with the timing of injectors.
We are also considering to increase the openingpressure of the injectors to about 170-180 bar.
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Yesterday I thought everything over once again, we were afraid that the remaining pressure in the injectorlines would be to high and that it could result in dripping injectors. But the opening pressure is the same as the closing pressure on the injectors so that could not lead to any problems.
The next thing I'm a little afraid of is the duration of injecting with the higher lift of the camplate. The way I see it is the bigger plunger is just delivers more feul but the higher lift of the camplate increases the duration of injecting. What is the right pumptiming with this setup ?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, the more brains working on this project the better.
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That depends on the style of camplate you use, some have more duration than others. if oyu are runnign a 1.6 pump put a 10 or 11mm head assembly in with a 1.9td camplate, use the heaviest return springs you can find to help reduce the rollers from skipping on the cam plate.
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I'm working with Johnny on the pump for his 1.6TD.
I've managed to get a rebuild pump from a 1.9 IDI (AAZ) Last sunday evening I took out the camplate.
Now I got the camplates from a 1.6TD IDI, 1.9TD IDI and 1.9TDI. I already saw that the TDI is the only one with an A-Symmetrical Cam. And it looks like the lift is bigger on the 1.9TD camplate than on the 1.6TD one.
When I'm back from my work (this thursday) I'm going to measure them.
I'm going to check the following:
- Cam position (timing
- Cam height
- Cam length