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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: AAZTristar on April 04, 2014, 04:50:23 pm
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Hey all, I have a new to me 1989 Syncro Tristar (Vanagon pickup) that came from the factory with a 1.6TD JX engine. A couple years ago the PO had a shop install a new AAZ long block using all the JX peripherals (pump, exhaust, intake, turbo, etc).
I'm working on getting it to run smoother. The beast smokes real bad at start-up and has loud diesel "nailing" Once warmed up it runs OK, but still very loud rattling and my milage is not what I'd expect (about 20mpg).
I have bought the necessary tools and checked the engine timing (good) and the pump timing ( at .99mm, .039in ) That timing seems good for the JX, but being on a AAZ block should I be timing for the AAZ ( about .80mm )??
From what I have read the symptoms indicate the timing being too advanced. What do you think? Should I time it closer to the AAZ at about .80mm?
Thanks!!
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The timing sounds like it may be a little high, but that's where I had the timing on my Transporter with a 1.9 l NA with a Giles pump. I think someone has maxed the timing and fuel screw to compensate for too small a pump for the engines needs. I would source out a AAZ pump. I may be wrong ,but I think the JX pump may have a head as small as 8mm ,where you could use one up to 10mm. Of course the turbo is still small, but displacement is displacement. But if you don't want to fix I will buy it BECAUSE I AM VERY VERY JEALOUS OF YOU AND YOUR TRUCK
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Thanks Caveman. yep, it's a nice truck. Or it will be when I get the running problems fixed.
Here is a link to my post on theSamba:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=579387&highlight=aaz
I was hoping someone could tell me definitely whether the pump timing is set to the pump type (1.6TD JX) or to the engine (1.9TD AAZ)?
I have backed the pump up to .96mm and it seems a little quieter, still just as smoky. Adjusting the IP was easier than I thought it would be. The only real fun was rotating the engine. I can't access the crank bolt (muffler in the way) so I jacked up the passenger side rear wheel and leaving it in fourth gear rotated the wheel to move the engine. A little bit fusty, but worked.
Still very concerned about the loud engine noises. It is a new long block (per receipts) so the internal bits should match properly.
Maybe bad injectors? (original JX), or worn pump?
If I can ever figure how to post videos maybe a movie will help.
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If you aren't sure about the injector condition, I would pull them and have them gone through - even just for peace of mind. A bad injector can really mess up the engine (so I've read). Not sure if they can cause smoke when they're bad but they can make a lot of racket.
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Thanks Gizmoman.
Yep, after messing with the pump timing today, I'm beginning to think it's time to consider new/rebuilt injectors. And if that doesn't help then time to spend some serious cash for a Giles pump upgrade/rebuild.
On the injectors, I've found some 130bar injectors that fit, but are those too low? I believe the JX came with 155bar. What kid of difference will the lower pressure injectors make?
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Thanks Gizmoman.
Yep, after messing with the pump timing today, I'm beginning to think it's time to consider new/rebuilt injectors. And if that doesn't help then time to spend some serious cash for a Giles pump upgrade/rebuild.
On the injectors, I've found some 130bar injectors that fit, but are those too low? I believe the JX came with 155bar. What kid of difference will the lower pressure injectors make?
I believe it changes the timing - 130's will squirt a tad earlier.
Giles can assist with the injectors as well - great guy. I sent him mine along with my pump. He ended up sending new ones back along with my old ones - IIRC, my stock ones were 130 as well.
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Oh brother, I've been reading and searching, reading and searching, reading… and I'm just not sure which way to go.
Is it better to have my JX pump rebuilt/upgraded by Giles, with new/rebuilt JX injectors. Or, source an AAZ pump, two stage injectors and pipes? (and face the cost of rebuilding those?)
The engine has JX intake/exhaust manifolds and a new JX style turbo (068-145-701QX)
Any thoughts?
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The two stage injectors don't do anything for power, just noise. The pilot stage gets a burn started before the main injection event which in turn reduces the sudden rise in pressure when the main burn starts. The result is less diesel noise. Performance will be fine with the single stage injectors, it will just sound more like a 1.6.
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The whole probably isn't cost effective, you should probably just sell the truck to me and make it my problem ;)
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The whole probably isn't cost effective, you should probably just sell the truck to me and make it my problem ;)
8) You're the third person to ask! Anything is for sale at the right price. ;D
Looks like I'm gonna source a Giles AAZ pump and injectors. $$$
Still need some AAZ pipes.
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Hey all, I have a new to me 1989 Syncro Tristar (Vanagon pickup) that came from the factory with a 1.6TD JX engine. A couple years ago the PO had a shop install a new AAZ long block using all the JX peripherals (pump, exhaust, intake, turbo, etc).
I'm working on getting it to run smoother. The beast smokes real bad at start-up and has loud diesel "nailing" Once warmed up it runs OK, but still very loud rattling and my milage is not what I'd expect (about 20mpg).
I have bought the necessary tools and checked the engine timing (good) and the pump timing ( at .99mm, .039in ) That timing seems good for the JX, but being on a AAZ block should I be timing for the AAZ ( about .80mm )??
From what I have read the symptoms indicate the timing being too advanced. What do you think? Should I time it closer to the AAZ at about .80mm?
Thanks!!
I would have thought that a couple of years installation of the AAZ in a Vanagon, for the purpose of more power/acc'n, might mean it's no-longer a 'new' engine.
I would consider compression checks.
Re timing, I would use JX spec.
However, injectors may have dropped in break pressure which advances injection, so swinging pump whilst idling is the way to go ultimately.
Later nozzles were quieter, as they contained an element of pre-squirt.
Thus AAZ dual spring injectors are not unique in their pre-squirt, just that you could notionally adjust the pre-squirt away from the main injection, although VW then slapped the caveat, that they were non-DIY-serviceable... [lies].
Try more retardation.
Try less or even more fueling.
Your turbo to pump hose is connected I assume!
Test your injectors, and check compression, before rushing off to buy a Giles pump...
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True. A couple years doesn't make for a "new" engine. Actually engine was installed 11/9/2012, not "new" either, but fresher than it was!
I thought about building a pop tester for the injectors, rebuilding those myself and then having the JX pump rebuilt. But the idea of having a fresh Giles pump with the quieter AAZ injectors and pipes that fit correctly (not all bent to fit) is a nice comfort.
It will also add drivability to the truck!
From what I have read, the Giles rebuild cures the AAZ of it's fueling issues.
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I'm running a GFiles 1.6 pump on my AAZ and fuel is not an issue at all - air from the K-14 is (was)
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From what I can see, the JX pump has a 9mm injection piston. so does all the other 1.6 stuff, except the 1v which has 8mm.
The AAZ also has a 9mm piston.
However the AAZ has a steeper injection cam, say 3.5mm, compared with 2.3mm of the 1.6's.
Unfortunately this means it won't rev as high as a 1.6, due to cam float.
Standard boost pin for an AAZ is a blank, so better to use the tapered 1.6.
Best is the extra tapered GTD pin.
So, max speed will be with a 1.6 pump and max power with a 1.9 pump.
Vanagon probably won't do much over 5000 revs safely anyway.
I've not seen one of Giles' pumps, but I suspect 1.6, with a softer longer advance spring, with deeper advance cover and raised rev limiter. A kind of yellow dot pump, for 'modern' engines...
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If I change over to an AAZ pump and the matching injectors/pipes are there any other parts I'll need to make this work?
Basically I'll be bringing the AAZ long block back to stock, although it will still have the JX intake/exhaust manifolds and the K14 turbo (which is only a year old).
I'm really sorry to ask dumb questions, this is my first diesel.
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Nothing wrong with asking questions.
Not sure about it but My AAZ with the 1.6 pump (like that when I bought the van) had a sheet metal mount. I bought a used block and it came with a cast mount which I believe was for the 1.9 pump but mine fit perfectly. With the cast bracket, I was also able to use the stock AAZ timing belt covers as well.
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So I checked, and mine has the stamped steel mount. You're saying that the AAZ pump should fit?
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So I checked, and mine has the stamped steel mount. You're saying that the AAZ pump should fit?
I can say my 1.6 IP fit the cast AAZ bracket. This is my first VW diesel so I can't say 100%
Here is a shot of my 1.6 IP on an AAZ (and I assume a 1.9 IP) mount.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OaVf9P1OKYc/Uan7zXwCTsI/AAAAAAAABvI/JIg-XuULO-I/w957-h718-no/DSC00473.JPG)
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My JX engine reached the end of it's life so putting a AAZ into my Vanagon. It is a bit of a mixture of parts, many of the bits off the JX are being reused, the injection pump (was rebuilt by Giles, and the AAZ injection pump was missing on the engine I got), the JX exhaust manifold and exhaust, and airbox. Going to use the AAZ turbo since the JX one is done. Also going to have turbo adapter plates made up for using the AAZ turbo to match up to the JX exhaust manifold.
My question is regarding using the JX injection pump, and injectors and lines. Are there any issues with fitting the injection pump, injectors and lines? It seems that people who do this make it work by re-bending the JX lines, is this all I need to do, or am I missing something? Sorry if this is an obvious question but this is my first diesel too. Thanks so much, been lurking long time and learning so much from the forum and figured I would add to this thread versus starting a new one.
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Another question, with a Syncro does the deck lid hit the JX injection pump when it is on the AAZ or does it clear lid?
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The JX pump (or AAZ pump) will fit in either the AAZ bracket or the JX pump bracket provided the sprocket that matches the pump is used. You will need to bend the JX injection lines to fit the taller AAZ block and you will need to bend them more if the AAZ injectors are used as they are taller.
The injection pump mounts in the same location relative the chassis regardless of whether it is bolted to a 1.6 or 1.9. The difference in the 1.9 block height is at the head gasket surface which is above the injection pump mounting location. Regardless, there is not any issue with any injection pump hitting the doka engine lid. There's plenty of clearance in a doka for even the normal LDA pump.
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Thanks so much, for a regular vanagon, and not a doka, is there an issue with hitting the engine lid with the JX injection pump on the AAZ engine block?
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Sorry, I must have been tired. For some reason I translated Syncro as Doka, weird. Anyway, to answer your actual question... No, the JX pump will not hit the lid on an AAZ in a syncro. Again, the pump is mounted in the same place relative the chassis on both the AAZ and the JX. The JX pump does not hit the lid on a 2wd vanagon which has the engine mounted 1.5 inches closer to the lid. Mounted on an AAZ in a Syncro, the JX pump would have another extra 1.5 inches of space above and beyond the clearance in a 2WD vanagon. I don't even think the 'normal' LDA pumps will hit the engine lid on a Syncro. Only the normal LDA pumps interfere with the lid when installed on a 2WD vanagon. Even then, it's a small issue that is solved very easily. The top of the pump does not even protrude above the top of the ribs of the lid so a little cut and a piece of sheet metal later makes it a non-issue.
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The JX pump (or AAZ pump) will fit in either the AAZ bracket or the JX pump bracket provided the sprocket that matches the pump is used.
All 1.6 brackets have a 50mm mounting diameter. AAZ has either 50mm or 68mm. The 68mm ones have a 2 piece timing belt pulley like the ALH engine.
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Good catch. I tend to forget about the larger snout AAZs.
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Thanks so much for the help you lot rock!
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To answer my own question, I was able to mount the Giles rebuilt AAZ pump onto my 1.6TD/AAZ mongrel with no problems. Everything matched up perfectly. Feel much better about the pipe setup, just need a little tuning to get the smoke right. (too much black on acceleration)
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1229339.jpg
Now I just need to fix the hot engine problems I'm having >:(, I've got a oil cooler setup on order. Hope that will fix it. Then it's on to boost controller, gauge, intercooler, EGT gauge, tach gauge, etc. ;D