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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: coolclay on June 23, 2013, 02:06:31 pm
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So long story short, I purchased my '81 Rabbit Pickup in 2008 and have driven it cross-country 3 times (http://www.coolclay.info/mojave/content/bin/images/large/DSC00894.jpg).
The whole time assuming my engine was the stock 1.6. Now I am changing out the injection pump, and realize that I have bosch pump # 0-460-494-005. According to online sources this pump is designed for the 1.5L (78-80) and that the correct pump for the '81 1.6L is 0-460-494-077.
Now of course it's likely the engine is not stock but I am having trouble identifying whether my engine is a 1.5 or 1.6. The head says 81 and has 2 nipples and 058-103-373M. So does the 81 on the head indicate it is actually an '81 1.6 and I should change the IP to 077? Or should I stick with what I've been driving it with for the past 4 years.
Can anyone out there help me figure out what I am dealing with! Thanks bunches!
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Doesn't really matter.. They will all run it just fine. ;)
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Doesn't really matter.. They will all run it just fine. ;)
I put a 1.5 pump on my 85 jetta for a few months just to see and I didn't notice any difference
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We don't know what the difference really is, and it isn't readily apparent in use, even though the people that designed the things clearly made a lot of distinctions between injection systems on various motors. To be more specific.
I have an obscure 80's Audi 80 1.6L pump on my NA 1.9L that "runs fine" too, but it isn't optimal.
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Good to know! So can anyone tell me if my engine is actually a 1.6 based upon a head that says 81 and has 2 nipples and 058-103-373M?
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There are a few things that differ the two.. Head-bolts are a for sure, and the crank bolt is another 50/50 tell-tale. They have been wrong though.
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Isn't it stamped on the back of the block 1.6?
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Also I know the 1.6 codes pretty well, stamped on the front.
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It could just be the housing of the injection pump too, with the old build tag on the housing, and different internals. But who knows. I've heard there is something shops are supposed to do to the build tag to indicate the pump has been changed internally but I doubt it's done often. I have a housing from who knows what on my Dodge because one of the springs broke inside and trashed the housing.
Also, where is this online source of information that tells you what vehicles each part fits? I want to know.
And yes, the blocks should have the displacement cast into them somewhere, in big numerals, but you may have to crawl up under the engine to see.
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It could just be the housing of the injection pump too, with the old build tag on the housing, and different internals. But who knows. I've heard there is something shops are supposed to do to the build tag to indicate the pump has been changed internally but I doubt it's done often. I have a housing from who knows what on my Dodge because one of the springs broke inside and trashed the housing.
Also, where is this online source of information that tells you what vehicles each part fits? I want to know.
And yes, the blocks should have the displacement cast into them somewhere, in big numerals, but you may have to crawl up under the engine to see.
I could have sworn it was on the backside of the block in tall cast numbers.
On the PN's, there's lots of little references, I usually search a specific number and find the app. I don't have a single go-to, other than ETK of course.
I found some Italian site with a TON of Bosch nozzle and injector numbers awhile ago.
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Also, where is this online source of information that tells you what vehicles each part fits? I want to know.
All the Bosch VE stuff is interchangeable as they all share the same Bosch pump family, VE.
I have mixed and match many many many pieces to get my own stuff going in the past when needed.. It all turned out the exact same, and they all ran great.
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All the Bosch VE stuff is interchangeable as they all share the same Bosch pump family, VE.
Some stuff needs modifying if you want to go crazy.. lol
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I just searched the different numbers and see what google has to say about it. Oregon Fuel Injection for example has a few part numbers and what they fit http://oregonfuelinjection.com/index.php?pid=35#VW_REBUILT_INJECTION_PUMPS_NON_TDI (http://oregonfuelinjection.com/index.php?pid=35#VW_REBUILT_INJECTION_PUMPS_NON_TDI)
Also I know the 1.6 codes pretty well, stamped on the front.
What code are you referring too? Like what is stamped on the head which is 058-103-373M?
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That's a part number, unless its a casting number masquerading as a part number. Germans do that sometimes.
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i have a 1.5 yellow dot pump on my 1.6 rabbit and it runs fine.
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Like with many things automotive, emissions control has a lot to do with the specifics between the pumps. Really there are two types of pumps in use on the 1.5/1.6 engines, the '109' with the idle bump up and the '107' that doesn't have that. The idle control is different between the 107 and 109 pumps but either setup will work. In my opinion the 109 pump is preferred since it is easier to get the idle stable plus the idle bump up with the cold start handle is a great feature.
Other than that the majority of the differences you'll find across pumps of the same model will be around timing advance. Different p/n pumps may have different advance springs and/or shims, while some have solenoids to alter when the timing advance is used. Minor differences in dynamic advance won't make dramatic differences in the day to day driving of the car, but they may have an impact on fuel economy and NOx emissions. I don't know of anywhere that actually tests for NOx with mechanical diesels though. Particulate emissions yes, NOx not so much as I think the particulate kills the NOx testing machines.
Basically what I am getting at is if the pump is from a VW application and it bolts to the engine properly it'll work just fine. You might be able to play with the base timing a bit and find the "happiest" place for that particular pump on that particular engine which may well equal different base timing at a particular engine speed with a different p/n pump. Really though they are all pretty darn close to one another - the engines themselves are basically identical so it is not really any surprise that a pump intended for an "early" 1.6 will work just fine on a "late" 1.6 or vice versa. Even the 1.5 is not much different. The AAZ does have different injector technology so there's some things to watch for there, but amongst the "single stage" injection engines I think pretty much any pump from the same tech level will be acceptable.
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Excellent explanation thanks!