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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: One_punchmachinegun on June 16, 2013, 05:57:52 pm
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HEy guys,
I am throwing the turbo on the car and I can not get the oil return line on for the life of me. Its as if its no where close to where it needs to be. I tried everything that I could think of. Turbo on and off the car, with no avail. So the car is a Mk2 jetta and the oil pan is a stock 1.6 td. I believe its a mk2 pan, but maybe wrong with that. I would like some help now that I feel hopeless. All fathers day I was trying to get this thing on. Anyone have pictures for a reference to how it should sit. I search google and didnt find pictures to help.
And the oil pan, to make sure that the one I have is a actual mk2 pan. Are the mk2 pans the ones that have the flange that is slightly angled to theleft if under the car.
Just let me know what you think I should do.
Thanks,
Tim
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ok.. mk1 pan vs mk2 different along with line!!
mk2 the line ran thru the rear aluminum mount..
if mk1 used on mk2.. it is almost rubbing on the ears of that mount.. needs a tweek.. but my line/pan/turbo were attached when i used the prybar on mine to make the mount fit..
but mk1 return vs mk2 return will hit pan in different places..
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Do then the mk2 pan has the flange that goes straight up from the oil pan
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mk1 iis in different place then mk2.. but sam part.. welded in different position..
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Pictures?$?
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mk2 is angled to the driver's side.
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Then why can't I get this thing on....
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The oil drain can be a huge pain to hook up. Did you try removing the pan or loosening it and hooking the drain up first? Is the mount/brace on the oil line causing it to sit in the wrong position?
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i have no pics... when i put the 83td in my 91 b3 sedan in 02 i had to do pry bar mod.. been mounted ever since..
all i know is the 2 are different.. think one leans towards say 1 o clock, the other more towards 11.. but been long time.. 20 years since i saw that issue of mk1 vs mk2..
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No the mount on the line isn't a problem. Took it off before attempting, figuring it would cause a problem. The pan idea is genius. I will be trying that tomorrow.
Tyler, what was that turbo off of. Does it need to be clocked? It doesn't seem like it but figured I'd ask.
Now with the oil line, the orientation maybe wrong also. One way seems to fit nice at the top with the turbo and the exhaust manifold, but issues with where it goes toward at the bottom. Almost in the wrong direction of the flange, but the other way seems to be in the right direction for the flange on the oil pan but doesn't seem to clear the exhaust manifold. It is really strange to me. Which way is correct?
If any one with an engine out and the oil line on could take a picture to put some questions to rest, that would be fantastic.
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Yes I think your correct with the positions, 11 and 1. Mine is the 11. I have the 1 also but don't feel like pulling that pan for it not even being correct..
I even tried having the turbo hanging freely from the intake boot so I could swing the line around easier. Didn't help, I thought it was going to do it. Not sure what to do hear. Also have been by myself doing this, feel like a friend could help with the flow of things. To bad all my good friends around here no nothing about working on cars.
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I took some pictures below of my truck that isn't on the road yet. I have only dealt with mk2 turbo engines. So I am not dealing with your rear mount and I need to come up with a rubber clamp to branch off the return line bracket you see I zip tied to for vibrations sake I guess?
Can't see how you would even attempt to bolt the drain on the wrong way at the turbo side? It would shoot off into a crazy direction.
So looking at the pan from the rear of the car forward the bung on the oil pan is tilted to the passenger side.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/kellyass/P6161866_zps4db9f68c.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/kellyass/P6161865_zps9a798dbc.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/kellyass/P6161861_zps258f8958.jpg)
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well i wish you luck on your square peg in round hole.. :D
all i know the 2 just fail.. i was building a engine on the stand from a box back in 94ish when i had same issue.. not very often to have a issue unless pieced together.. but how i know the 2 different ways..
go look at the other one you think you have.. the pic he posted is tipped towards 1..
forget the zip tie/bracket.. that bad boy in pan so good it no move..
if you do swap pans check that drain plug... easy to weld new nut in when off vs after on.. most all seem screwed up... i remove the stamped steel piece in pan, has 2 spot welds.. then het a nut.. tighten drain plug... weld nut into place.. on inside.. and new drain plug.. :)
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Everything I sold you was off a 90s Jetta. I haven't had any mk1s in a long time so I'd be very surprised if you somehow ended up with mk1 parts.
I'll hopefully have an engine out this week sometime but hopefully you have this straightened out by then. If Damacs pics aren't what you need I can take some more.
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After seeing those pictures it seems that I have the wrong oil pan on. But with that the oil line will have to go thought the rear engine mount to get to that drain hole.. I do t know why Volkswagen would do that..
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Well, I gave that a shot, and I am not happy. For a good half an hour all I have been saying is " I'm done, I'm not working on any cars any more." " This is bull@$%!, I hate $&@%+?! hate working on cars. I'm going to burn them all to the #&@+#%?! Ground."
And lets just say I really don't curse all that much...at all.
Ok, well after giving it a shot the way I seen it in those pictures, I had to remove the rear engine mount. That went fine, installed everything. Seemed to go well. But as soon as I went to put the mount back on there is no way to get the mount back on. Not enough clearance with the oil line there. So I tried to force it. Well I'm pretty sure I'm going to loose a finger nail.
So I think I need to go back to the other oil pan. But not all sure how well that is going to go either.
Other examples of how these should sit would be great.
I do thank all of you for you help so far.
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cut the flex part and make new one??
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I have been thinking that. But last time I made my own. I had leaking issues that pee'd me off to.
Is there any way of going about making your own other than braided steel?
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the flex is for thermal expansion.. else it would be solid.. but if you went to a place that di dhydro hoses fo requipment they should be able to add a piece in of the size you seek.. take a dremal and cut the crimps down both sides.. pup crimps off.. then you can remove th ehose from the pipes..
then with a piece of heaterhose.. figure ou thow long it needs to be.. then take to them to crimp in a nice piece of hose..:D
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My two MK2 TDs have the 1-o'clock flange on the oil-pan and the line goes behind the aluminum mount.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9D7PoUUIGoQ/Ub9nfJzXQWI/AAAAAAAABQk/5IzH5ynRN8k/s800/TurboDrain.JPG)
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Hahahahahajaj....
That's not funny. I wonder if the mount is different. I wonder if I could modify the mount to fit the line behind.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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As I have a vanagon and a K14, I can't help much but I can try. . .
- The drain has zero pressure so all you need is a hose rated for oil and temps around 350 (some safety factor there).
- The hose provides some flex and the only reason you need flex is because of thermal expansion and vibration.
- The turbo/oil pan/block are basically one solid chunk of stuff. Copper will work to get things clocked correctly (as in the photo I posted) but I'd keep it real short as it can work harden just from vibration, then it could crack. Ideally I'd use steel but you gotta work with what you have.
- The drain needs to be at 6:00 because oil that doesn't "drain" leaks.
- The place to attach it needs to be lower than the output & the lower it is the better, but not a big deal because it's being pushed by the pump.
My 2 sense.
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Thanks. I most likely be taking the route of making my own.
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Thanks. I most likely be taking the route of making my own.
Now you're talkin
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What year is your car? Was it originally a NA? I've heard that they have a different rear mount compared to a TD.
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my b3.. 83 1.6td set up.. 16v rear mount from 9a in passat.. pulled that engine.. reused its mount.. may be me ears smaller?
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theman.. ohhh theman... take pic where yours hits... theman made up plate steel rear mounts for vnt apps.. his may clear your issue..
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Yes, originally a N/A, it's a 89. I was going to attempt my other rear mount thinking that it was from a TD but I then remembered it was also from a N/A I just made a line because I didn't have a stock return line.
I've been thinking that they are different but it couldn't be that different due to the fact it would make the engine have an offset in the bay.
It's closer to clearing at the top then the bottom. The bottom of the mount would really need to be different.
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nope, I don't think it would work. I have those flat stock pieces flat to the block. I suppose if it was really thin line it could sneak behind. I welded a JIC fitting to my NA pan at a 45 angle toward the driver side of the car. Custom hose 5/8" ID and it works fine.
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So I called the dealer out of curiosity, wondering if there are two different mounts. Turns out the mounts I have are not the correct mounts. The turbo diesel and 16v had the same mounts but it seems the n/a had a slightly different one, but it was weird because when I originally asked about the part he said they should be the same. They even came up in the system the same. So I asked for the part number and it came out different. I told him mine and that looped back to the correct mount that is for the TD and the 16v. He said that the mount must have been from the earlier models but the mount I ended up trying was from a 91 jetta. So I dont believe that all that much. So for future reference the mounts are different.. He guy told me to notch the mount and I would be good. So that's what I'm going to do.
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191 199 354C
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MdxHfIGybIY/UcCH9DP7dlI/AAAAAAAABQ4/fAh3CtcSAzU/s800/Mount2-small.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xyDonj1PloM/UcCH9bhigiI/AAAAAAAABQ8/oQInAW87zxM/s800/Mount-small.jpg)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Mk2-Golf-Jetta-Rear-Motor-Mount-Bracket-1987-1992-/380282911684?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item588aa0bbc4&vxp=mtr
Make sure it has suffix 'C'...
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That's the one. Thanks. I will be going to the junk yard this weekend. Hopefully I find one of those. The guy that I talked to said that it would be fine to just modify the bracket. But I would feel more comfortable using the correct bracket. Maybe for the time being I will modify it if people don't see a problem with that.....
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If it were my rig, I'd get the real mcCoy... stressed aluminum castings being crack-prone when cut.
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The suffix A and suffix B are also stock. One is for a gasser I think. Mine may have worked for you but I would hate to see it go and then you end up at the same spot you are in right now.
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I'm pretty sure 'C' is the one with the passage for the oil drain. The others have straight features.
Prothe/Hahns/Westport stocks em' but the castings look nasty to me.
(http://www.westportparts.com/VolksDiesel/images/191199354C.jpg)
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Yes. that does, I would rather modify it than go with that.
I guess, I will then see that what kind of arm and a leg the dealer wants.
Now the guy that I talked to said that the TD and the 16v had the same bracket.. If this is true then, junk yard trip should do the trick.. But if its TD specific, then I am out of luck unless someone on here has a spare.
;D
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117.00 FREAKING DUCKS!!! My goodness.
I find it funny that dealers charge so much. How do they come up with these numbers.
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The ebay one looked authentic, just ensure the seller is offering the 'C' version... they listed 'A' as an alternate part number. 'C' can be used in place of 'A' , but not the reverse.
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I will look into that one.
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I've been wanting to ask you, What days do you go? Its truely changed my life. I go Tuesdays and Thursdays.
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The first rule... ;)
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Haha. Right right.
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I found one of these in the garage tonight.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/kellyass/P6181874_zps7f94d94b.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/kellyass/P6181875_zps6cab4642.jpg)
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Oh yeah? Whatcha going to do with that thing?
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oops should have said i do not need to keep this. i have an mk2 85 jetta i am selling soon, that leaves me with rabbit and truck.
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(http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k596/Jetta_GTD/DSC01218_zps7e87e340.jpg)
My MK1 CY TD setup that I used on my 85 Jetta.
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Hm, I tried that route without any luck. At the bottom the end of the return line it wouldnt go anywhere near the flange on the oil pan. What turbo is on that?
The only way the line got close to the flange was if I turned it around 180' but then it wouldn't clear at the top with the exhaust manifold.
Wonder if it has something to do with the position of the center part of your turbo. Clocking the turbo might have worked.
I think I'm going to go the other route, now that I have committed. I have the turbo and everything on, and torque to spec. So it will stay there until I get a rear mount that allows me to run it this way.
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What turbo is on that?
It's a stock 1.6 T3 from a 1983 Jetta.
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Did you have to modify the line at all to clear the rear mount.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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No modifications were required. That is the factory designed return line and oil pan.