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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: tyb525 on May 23, 2013, 07:51:28 am
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I believe the clutch is on it's way out (as in, if I drove it again, I'd get stranded). I tried adjusting the clutch, it has about 3/4"-1" of free play like Bentley calls for, but no luck. It's bad enough that flooring it in 4th going 55 the engine revs up like I pressed in the clutch.
So unless I'm missing something, looks like I need a new clutch. What size clutch does an '81 1.6NA with the GP 4 speed use? 200mm? And what else is good to replace while I'm in there.
The other option is finding a 5 speed, but I'm sure that'll be a little more costly.
I knew I should've replaced it when I have the engine apart last fall...
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sounds like u need a clutch! u can find 5 speeds pretty cheap, most junkyards are packed with mk3's, then all you'll need to find is the top side motor mount and mk1 5 speed linkage. or u can just keep it simple and simply change the clutch, rear main seal, and all the seals.bushings in the bell housing of the trans.
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i see people say cheap trannies... wish they existed.. mk3 most all have rev gear issues.. $400 in parts.. finding old no value 4 speed for those parts good though.. you have...
but in no way will i install a yard 020 from a mk3 with out a tear down planned..
now if you do the 5speed make sure the disk fits... mk3 has bigger splines...
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I thought you couldn't use the mk3 trannies in a mk1 because the diff doesn't have those studs for the rear mount?
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Tyler it's the other away around, the earlier mk1 trans didn't have the spots to mount a mk2/3 mount. Some mk3 trans do have the holes drilled and tapped but the boss is there. And yeah mk3 tranny would not be my first pic but they're definitely available. I see 020 sell cheap all the time on Craigslist and vortex
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Right, thank you. I ran into that when I tried to put a 4A in my Mk2.
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Speaking of which, anyone else less than thrilled with Sachs clutches lately?
Mine is noisy at idle and the one that came out wasn't that old and the springs
had fallen out of the center of the friction disk, which is the 2nd time I've seen that
on a stock NA diesel now, both Sachs. The Porsche one's still seem OK the last
few years, but they aren't spring centered.
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Speaking of which, anyone else less than thrilled with Sachs clutches lately?
Mine is noisy at idle and the one that came out wasn't that old and the springs
had fallen out of the center of the friction disk, which is the 2nd time I've seen that
on a stock NA diesel now, both Sachs. The Porsche one's still seem OK the last
few years, but they aren't spring centered.
I have heard alot of people talking about poor quality for years especially on mildly built 16vs that could rip the straps off the pressure plate
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Yikes, already ordered a Sachs kit. Guess we'll see, wasn't too expensive....
BTW, can I reuse the bolts? Most places say no, but I think I saw somewhere the bolts on older cars like my '81 weren't TTY therefore they can be reused? If not who sells them? I see them individually on Ebay, but I'd like to buy them as a set. Parts Place has one for $50 (yikes!).
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Yikes, already ordered a Sachs kit. Guess we'll see, wasn't too expensive....
BTW, can I reuse the bolts? Most places say no, but I think I saw somewhere the bolts on older cars like my '81 weren't TTY therefore they can be reused? If not who sells them? I see them individually on Ebay, but I'd like to buy them as a set. Parts Place has one for $50 (yikes!).
Try McMaster Carr - you'll have em in one day and for a lot less than 50 buck for the set
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idparts.com or autohausaz.com is what I use.
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no reason to replace the bolts... UNLESS you move from stock 200mm clutch to 210mm.. then you need bolts as they use 9 vs 6..
yea mk1 take them all.. may have to play with axle flanges aka put 90mm ones on.. or mod spindles for 100mm rocco axles (mk2/mk3 too long).. but flanges easy to swap but finding the spring loaded 90mm cups are not so easy anymore..
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plate to motor bolts should be new.
flywheel bolts, well: used should be ok.
Just putting a bigger clutch in mine this weekend. I bought the kit from germanautoparts.com and the new gasser FW from rockauto (LUK brand) This is an area one shouldn't cheap out on, change the pushrod and it's seal, and check for a cracked finger also. You're there anyways; and last I checked theirs much more fun things to do than dropping a trans.
Change the rear main and input shaft seal also, an oil leak will ruin your new clutch right quick. The GAP kit comes with them. www.brokevw.com has the info for changing these.
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I had this- http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=25660.0 happen to two sachs clutches, the second looked even worse that this one. Look elsewhere, luk, spec, whatever. If you buy an expensive clutch kit I think your money will be saved by not having to r & r the transmission in 10k miles. Garbage.
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Yep, same deal. One in mine now is a year old or less. Hmm..
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Love LUK clutches. I have had one in my truck for 15 years and it is still going strong. The one I put in the vw is great as well. I know many guys that work at LUK in Wooster Ohio and they are proud of what they do.
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Wait, they still make things in this country?
Who sells Luk for old VW's? I haven't seen anything stock but Sachs for ages
at the usual euro parts places.
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My general rule of thumb is if it isn't on Ebay it doesn't exist. I got my 210mm setup off ebay for around 150.00. Clutch, pp, throw out, and align tool.
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I had this- http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=25660.0 happen to two sachs clutches, the second looked even worse that this one. Look elsewhere, luk, spec, whatever. If you buy an expensive clutch kit I think your money will be saved by not having to r & r the transmission in 10k miles. Garbage.
that happened to me to. freaked me out so i had the flywheel resrurfaced probably for nothing, put another kit in and its been fine since.
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I did a search on "Sachs clutch failure" and one on "LUK clutch failure" just to see what popped up.
Sachs is definitely a looser based on the results :(.
One post said that VW discontinued using Sachs due to QC issues.
Even though I already have a brand new Sachs waiting to go in as I wrap up this rebuild, I'm going to get a LUK.
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Nice TBs on the site. http://catalog.schaeffler-aftermarket.us/displayTB.phtml?number=LB180 Clutch chatter issues.
http://catalog.schaeffler-aftermarket.us/displayTB.phtml?number=LB134 Release Bearing Replacement
They also sell FAG bearings in their catalog.
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Well I have all the parts, but need to get the flywheel machined. I've went to 2 different machine shops that are supposed to be the best in the area, both of them said they didn't have the equipment for my particular flywheel. Autotech and a local transmission shop.
I'll be checking some different shops tomorrow. What a bummer, I was looking forward to getting this back together today.
Oh, and as "luck" would have it, the old clutch was a LUK, and just thous. away from the rivets scraping. Looks like the clutch has been slipping for awhile, but not enough that I noticed until recently.
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Speaking of which, anyone else less than thrilled with Sachs clutches lately?
Mine is noisy at idle and the one that came out wasn't that old and the springs
had fallen out of the center of the friction disk, which is the 2nd time I've seen that
on a stock NA diesel now, both Sachs. The Porsche one's still seem OK the last
few years, but they aren't spring centered.
GET THAT CLUTCH OUT OF THERE! it will fly apart eventually..
mine was a sachs as well, 200mm variety, not even old enough to burn the brand stamp off the friction material..
it would chatter like the trans was about to blow up sometimes.. then it got constant, and louder as time went on.
thought my trans had bad cluster bearings, because i wasnt very nice to it being that it was just a junk AUG..
figured i would just swap on my spare ACN trans, and be good to go.. nah, wasnt happening..
was just about to bolt up the ACN, then i remembered i had a 210mm clutch out of the car i harvested the ACN from..
pulled the flywheel off the 200mm clutch set, and when i pulled the flywheel off, i could see metal shavings on both sides of the clutch disk, on the flywheel, and on the pressure plate.. then when i went to flip the disk over to look at the other side, it CLUNKED..
wait, clutches arent supposed to clunk?!
sure enough, the center hub of the clutch had worn splines, and also had a groove around each side where it rested against the spring cover/outer clutch hub.. the area where the springs actually engage the center hub were very worn as well.. its like they never heat treated the center hub on 200mm rabbit clutches..
anyways, it was a good thing i had a 210mm clutch, although it did have a small crack in the friction material..
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Seems there was a time when Sachs put out faulty VW clutches, I think that's been remedied (I also read that on the internet..)
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Yeah that figures.
I've got a 210 in there, I had 176-142-025-gkl-n down as the PN
and it said 85-92 GTI, looks like 17-012 for Luk? Least it's cheap.
I could really live without pulling the ***ing transmission out again.
sigh
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Yeah that figures.
I've got a 210 in there, I had 176-142-025-gkl-n down as the PN
and it said 85-92 GTI, looks like 17-012 for Luk? Least it's cheap.
I could really live without pulling the ***ing transmission out again.
sigh
Rockauto gasser fw: $45 shipped. New. Cheaper than a grind!
Mine looked great, and I'm machinist picky.
I just hope the six puck I put it drives ok....
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the six puck is an on off switch. I had and will have again in my mk2. It held whatever you wanted to throw at it, but you start off like you have a tractor. No fuel input and let out the clutch, anymore than idle and it felt like the firewall was going to rip out of the car.
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the six puck is an on off switch. I had and will have again in my mk2. It held whatever you wanted to throw at it, but you start off like you have a tractor. No fuel input and let out the clutch, anymore than idle and it felt like the firewall was going to rip out of the car.
so, basically, you cant drive it like a ricer?
ive always been the one that continually feathers my throttle when letting the clutch out..
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the six puck is an on off switch. I had and will have again in my mk2. It held whatever you wanted to throw at it, but you start off like you have a tractor. No fuel input and let out the clutch, anymore than idle and it felt like the firewall was going to rip out of the car.
Unsprung 6-puck right?
My sprung 6-puck Clutchnet feathers real nice if I let it out slow,... 210mm.
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I have the same clutch you do. 210mm 6 puck, 6 spring clutchnet. You have to drive mine like a tractor. Anything more than idle it sounds like the firewall is going to rip out of the car. I ripped the bolt out of the front mount on my MK2. I guess once it is rolling a bit you can then give it fuel as you let it out more, but it is by no means good feathering.
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Anyone know the spec for the step on the flywheel? I figure since it has been worn down somewhat by the clutch, it won't be the right measurement if I measure what's already there.
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I have the same clutch you do. 210mm 6 puck, 6 spring clutchnet. You have to drive mine like a tractor. Anything more than idle it sounds like the firewall is going to rip out of the car. I ripped the bolt out of the front mount on my MK2. I guess once it is rolling a bit you can then give it fuel as you let it out more, but it is by no means good feathering.
I just put poly front/back mounts on.
I hope It drives fine....
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23.1mm difference is the spec I believe. I had a guy on here measure me one that was brand new from autohaus. That was the measurement but I don't know how accurate it is for sure. I could trust it I am sure.
Poly mounts will hold it fine, but at idle the dash on my mk2 was vibrating so bad I only left it in for 1/2 mile and came back and took it out. If I didn't have to worry about talking to customers I would have left it.
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Got it done and everything works good. Replaced all the seals I could get to (although none appeared to be leaking) and the driver side cv axle, I accidentally let the bearings out of the old one when unhooking it (oops) and noticed how worn it was, and a reman was pretty cheap.
Oh, and I think the spec is supposed to be 21.1mm for the flywheel step. I told the machinist 23.1, but he said that wouldn't take much at all off the step, so we went with 21.1mm and it is fine so far, the clutch releases like it should so it much not be too small of a step. If you look it up online you can find some vague references that mention 21.1mm for rabbits, but they're not specific to diesels.
This is the first time I've driven a vehicle with a new clutch, the grabbing power is amazing. And no more clinking of loose clutch springs.
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Nice clutch and cable really makes a difference. Rabbits and such are really pretty nice driving cars when they are in order.
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