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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: vw-tim on February 21, 2013, 08:50:33 pm
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So the injector pump is out of spec. Its worn out and i have to set it at 1.28mm to get it to run and idle good. Im havent driven it at all but would this cause any issues with the engine? Should i just look at getting a rebuild injector pump or saving some money and buying another used injector pump that is still in good spec? Its a 1.5L injector pump. It doesn't leak at all but im just wondering is it bad to use i understand i wont get as good of mpg or as good of power but i dont think im ready to just spend $500 on a rebuild pump. looking for feedback thank you!
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Could be your injectors are out of spec...
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Could be your injectors are out of spec...
how can the injectors be out of spec? Just worn out parts on the inside?
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Could be your injectors are out of spec...
how can the injectors be out of spec? Just worn out parts on the inside?
You got it Pontiac, as they wear it takes more advance to make them pop at the right time.
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Could be your injectors are out of spec...
how can the injectors be out of spec? Just worn out parts on the inside?
You got it Pontiac, as they wear it takes more advance to make them pop at the right time.
interesting how can i tell if the injector is good or bad then? and also what is the best way about repairing them would i have to rebuild the whole injector? or just the spring on the inside?
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There's a how-to thread around here somewhere on building your own pop tester to check the opening pressure and spray pattern and such.
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There's a how-to thread around here somewhere on building your own pop tester to check the opening pressure and spray pattern and such.
http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesel/DIY_Inj_Tester/DIY_Injector_Tester.html (http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesel/DIY_Inj_Tester/DIY_Injector_Tester.html)
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Lotta variations on the theme... google image-search "injector pop tester".
Here's one:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hYwnoMS3rks/USd3edwlLdI/AAAAAAAABCo/O4WEWYIdMps/s800/IMG_9248.JPG)
The reservoir is bigger than needed, but it was in the shop, lol, I'll probably change it for a craft-store glue bottle.
(http://images.timberlinetools.com/small_GlueBottle.jpg)
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...or even better, make the injectors spray in to the reservoir.... :)
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is there a way to make a pop tester with out having to weld on a piece? I guess ill hit up my local vw shop and see if they can pop test them for me
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IIRC, the folks using a "porta-power" type of hydraulic tool usually don't have to weld fittings, they might be obtained cheap on Craigslist or the hot-tool stores... er, I mean pawn-shops, etc.
(http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/general-information/75335d1261147029-easy-homemade-pop-tester-injectortest.jpg)
The bottle-jack is cheap, but often needs a fitting added.
I braze stuff like this more often then weld. Easier and less chance of damaging the goods.
I was planning on putting the injector high enough to spray into the rez, but took the lazy route. Maybe I'll do that if I upgrade.
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IIRC, the folks using a "porta-power" type of hydraulic tool usually don't have to weld fittings, they might be obtained cheap on Craigslist or the hot-tool stores... er, I mean pawn-shops, etc.
(http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/general-information/75335d1261147029-easy-homemade-pop-tester-injectortest.jpg)
The bottle-jack is cheap, but often needs a fitting added.
I braze stuff like this more often then weld. Easier and less chance of damaging the goods.
I was planning on putting the injector high enough to spray into the rez, but took the lazy route. Maybe I'll do that if I upgrade.
hmm i guess ill be on the look out for a porta power jack like that i harbor freight has this..
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-ton-heavy-duty-portable-hydraulic-equipment-kit-44899.html
also found this the price is a lot better!
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100616382&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&MERCH=REC-_-product-2-_-100595209-_-100616382-_-N#.USerD6XCaSo
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...or even better, make the injectors spray in to the reservoir.... :)
And dump dirty fluid into the injectors? ???
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...or even better, make the injectors spray in to the reservoir.... :)
And dump dirty fluid into the injectors? ???
Yea, good pt. Dirty = Bad
I sort of digress, but,
When buying a used diesel vehicle, I always ( after about 1000 to 2000 km of driving) cleaning the nozzles with Diesel Purge in a closed loop manner. ( looped the diesel fuel return hose from the IP back into the Diesel Purge can)
I always find it makes a big difference with: throttle response, performance and economy and engine noise.
But, I did find that new injector nozzles on my AHU made a big diff. That was without calibration - just a nozzle size increase from stock to .205 Veg. nozzles
I never really thought that injector size and cleanliness on a diesel (except for the extremes - too dirty or too big - "that's what she said" ) was that super important.
But it clearly is.
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And dump dirty fluid into the injectors? ???
Nah, inline filter between the rez and the pump.
Good idea to circulate the fluid a few times through the system without an injector in place, to flush the crud out before testing.
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so i just ordered all the stuff i need to make my inector pop tester i went with this
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200333147_200333147
and then ordered all these parts from http://www.mcmaster.com/ :
5269K311 METRIC STEEL COMPRESSION TUBE FITTING, ADAPTER FOR 6 MM TUBE OD X 1/8" NPT MALE PIPE 3.47
50925K343 COMPACT EXTREME-PRESSURE STEEL THRD FITTING, 3/8"MALE X 1/8"FEM PIPE, HEX HEAD BUSHING,6000 PSI 1.53
3845K23 GLYCERIN-FILLED GAUGE - 1% MID-SCALE ACCURACY, 2-1/2" DIAL, 1/4" BOTTOM, 0 - 3000 PSI 18.49
50925K345 COMPACT EXTREME-PRESSURE STEEL THRD FITTING, 3/8"MALE X 1/4"FEM PIPE,HEX HEAD BUSHING, 6000 PSI 1.30
50925K198 COMPACT EXTREME-PRESSURE STEEL THRD FITTING, 3/8" PIPE, FEMALE X FEMALE X MALE TEE, 4500 PSI 7.11
so i guess we will see how it all comes together!
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Go for it, dude.
A pop tester is a great tool for tuning/maintenance.
... as they wear it takes more advance to make them pop at the right time.
Check that... Worn injectors have lower break-pressure, don't they?
Maybe the OP has later, higher break-pressure injectors. Earlier injector spec was 120bar-142bar. (Plus the IP might be a yellow-dot, 107A.)
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I see nothing about a yellow dot pump that could cause there to be a need for a higher break pressure.. the yellow dot pumps must have come equipped on engines with higher stock break injectors to warrant the 1.15mm of timing..
What internally of the pump would cause that? Nothing I can see.
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I see nothing about a yellow dot pump that could cause there to be a need for a higher break pressure.. the yellow dot pumps must have come equipped on engines with higher stock break injectors to warrant the 1.15mm of timing..
What internally of the pump would cause that? Nothing I can see.
I suppose the "yellows" might have been matched with higher bar injectors (no indication they were)... but if they weren't , maybe the cam ramps or roller-ring have a shifted orientation relative to 0o.
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And dump dirty fluid into the injectors? ???
Nah, inline filter between the rez and the pump.
Good idea to circulate the fluid a few times through the system without an injector in place, to flush the crud out before testing.
But the filter is not absolute in filtering all debris so some dirty fuel is going to go into the injector.
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Okay so alittle update i was reading through the Bentley and it said to crack each injector as the engine was running and if one didnt change the engine noise then it was faulty. So i did that and all of them seem to be working.
Also the IP im using isnt a Yellow dot.
Also to just help me fully understand this more the shims are usually the only part on the injector that needs to be replaced because thats what really controls the point of pressure that the injectors release fuel at?
there was some talk of injectors with an earlier break point or a later break point are there different type of injectors that were used through out the years?
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The shims are the means to calibrate the the opening pressure. The spring holds the pintle down until the fuel pressure raises it up and the fuel sprays into the pre-cup. Thicker shims hold the injector closed longer, as pressure rises higher to the break point.
The nozzles are a wear-item, which can be replaced if they are spraying poorly or not closing properly.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/injector_2_pieces.jpg)
Nozzle diagram:
(https://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd/tdsae/f14f15.jpg)
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I find that by using my breaker bar held on top the nut and inserting the 1/2 inch socket keeper on my ear I get the best isolation of injector noise. Some are soft others a rap or tap. I only wish I had a pop tester. Could make one but time is short all the time.
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Alright guys so i got my injector pop tester made! and it works great! But now im just wondering what is a passable injector? I only tested a single injector on it and just decided it was best to ask on here to see what i need to look out for reading through the bently it says they should pop at about 1758-1840ish psi. So the injector i tested was poppin at 1400 psi around there does this mean i need to open it up and get another shim basicly how should i go about testing these?
and a pic of the setup:
(http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af27/tbsox89/4FEF6374-D7E0-43BE-9343-D48BAB983061-496-000000E427C8E1E2_zpsd6fe371a.jpg)
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Nicely done.
That seems kinda low. I'd number them and pop them all. See how many are that low.
It's important to have them all close*, as well as within spec. Spray pattern should be a narrow cone, with no dribble after cutoff.
("Bar" might be the preferred unit of pressure to compare to spec.)
*Edit to clarify: It's important to have them all closely match in break pressure.
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I see nothing about a yellow dot pump that could cause there to be a need for a higher break pressure.. the yellow dot pumps must have come equipped on engines with higher stock break injectors to warrant the 1.15mm of timing..
What internally of the pump would cause that? Nothing I can see.
I suppose the "yellows" might have been matched with higher bar injectors (no indication they were)... but if they weren't , maybe the cam ramps or roller-ring have a shifted orientation relative to 0o.
I went round and round with injector part numbers and supercessions awhile back. There are several PN's for NA injectors, I don't remember if I ever figured out what the diff was. And it wasn't TD or AAZ, just across the 1.5 and 1.6 versions sold in the US.
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Okay guys so i went through all 8 injectors i have. here is what i got. The injectors #1-4 are the ones that were on the engine #5-8 where ones i pulled of this other head i had.
Injectors:
#1 - 1600psi
#2 - 1500ish psi more or less it was hard to tell exactly
#3 - 1700psi
#4 - 1600psi
#5 - 2000ish psi
#6 - 100ish and up psi as soon as pressure was applied it would just start leaking out
#7 - 1800 psi and it leaks
#8 - 2600 psi leaks
So my question now is how should i go about getting injectors to spec? Or should i just buy new rebuild injectors? Would the rebuild injectors be at the correct spec?
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Swap the shims around till you have 4 the same. Thicker shim = higher pressure.
Good spray and cutoff without dribble is more important than actual pressure.
Let me guess, #6 was in a destroyed hole?
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Swap the shims around till you have 4 the same. Thicker shim = higher pressure.
Good spray and cutoff without dribble is more important than actual pressure.
Let me guess, #6 was in a destroyed hole?
So should i clean up all 8 and open them all up and take all 8 shims and measure them and pick out the 4 thickest and go from there? What if none of these shims work? Is there any place that sells shims
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Also im thinking about just spending the money on rebuilt injectors from GAP or maybe another place that might sell them cheaper. My concern is if i get these injectors should they be set up to spec like i shouldnt even worry about pop testing them or could i get them and they still might need different shims to get them to spec i dont know why but i just wanna make sure before i purchase them if i will just be able to put them in and time the Injector pump and be all good to go?
there are these for the 1.5L :
http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Rabbit/Fuel/68/1
but i did notice that these were alittle cheaper but they are for the 1.6L Turbo diesel :
http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Rabbit/Fuel/68/3
Are the Breaking points different with each of these?
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The TD one's are a different break pressure, you need NA that match what your pump is expecting.
I'd buy a rebuilt set from someone like this, I hardly trust Bosch anymore.
http://oregonfuelinjection.com/index.php?pid=35#VW_REBUILT_INJECTORS (http://oregonfuelinjection.com/index.php?pid=35#VW_REBUILT_INJECTORS)
Not that playing with yours is a bad idea at all, but if you are trying to get it running right
and you haven't been around them for awhile, removing a variable might make things go
more smoothly.
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The TD one's are a different break pressure, you need NA that match what your pump is expecting.
I'd buy a rebuilt set from someone like this, I hardly trust Bosch anymore.
http://oregonfuelinjection.com/index.php?pid=35#VW_REBUILT_INJECTORS (http://oregonfuelinjection.com/index.php?pid=35#VW_REBUILT_INJECTORS)
Not that playing with yours is a bad idea at all, but if you are trying to get it running right
and you haven't been around them for awhile, removing a variable might make things go
more smoothly.
Thank you! I think ill just go with them and not even waste my time messing with what i have right now.
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The rebuilder will be doing the exact same thing, except using new nozzles.
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The TD one's are a different break pressure, you need NA that match what your pump is expecting.
Nothing internal of the pumps require a certain break pressure of injectors. With the higher break pressures you simply need more static timing. The internal pump pressures, plunger size and stroke are all the same between NA and TD.
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The rebuilder will be doing the exact same thing, except using new nozzles.
Yep, and they have done it many, many times before and have an eye for correct spray pattern and might notice a weeper.
Least that's the theory.
Nothing against VW-Tim, and everyone ought to learn sometime, but trying to get a new motor to run when one has very
little (I'm assuming) experience probably isn't the best time. Hell I don't rebuild mine, for $150 and I keep my hands clean?
No thanks to all that put together, take apart. If they pop nasty I get them rebuilt by someone. Maybe I'm getting old.
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The TD one's are a different break pressure, you need NA that match what your pump is expecting.
Nothing internal of the pumps require a certain break pressure of injectors. With the higher break pressures you simply need more static timing. The internal pump pressures, plunger size and stroke are all the same between NA and TD.
"Need" as in to be able to function correctly when set to the spec in the book.
One can make a lot of things work that aren't quite right, I encourage following spec whenever possible unless there is a need
to do otherwise. Like necessity, or cost savings for instance.
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spec in the book.
Well the spec in the book means nothing to an engine with any amount of kilometers/miles on it ;). So therefore, it is deemed completely useless.. That is unless you are building a zero mile engine.
I do believe you are the one who thinks "hill-billy" tuning is the devil, but it is what is necessary in this instance..
Using higher or lower break pressure injectors depending on personal preference for emissions or power is not "making things work".
Volkswagen has used break pressures all over the map.. I can tell you for a fact, nothing about that is specific to the pump OR engine.
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I disagree but only partly, and some of that is philosophical. And I have nothing against timing by ear because of wear or any other sort of creativeness. I've been driving these things since I was sitting on my father's lap, and most of them have been pretty tired one way or another. I'm pretty comfortable with making do. But I choose to strive for an ideal in all things.
I also try and not actively pass disinformation, but my opinion is worth exactly what everyone pays for it. 8)
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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My apologies, it was someone else who thinks timing by ear is voodoo/black magic haha.
I understand your ideal, but this instance is not "making do". NA's were offered with higher break injectors at one point or another in the 1.6 IDI's lifetime.
Spewing incorrect information is also a good thing to strive against, I am with you on that one.
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No worries. I don't pretend to know it all.
I have a file somewhere with all the IDI injector part numbers, from VW, that I could locate and corosponding Bosch numbers. They are interesting to say the least. Also that most rebuilders just split them as NA and TD. And the pump changes. Oi...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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I really appreciate all your guys input and help with all of this! :)
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It's what we do dude. 8)
I like to see these old cars on the road, and when people are left
to figure it out themselves they more often than not end up with a
bad opinion of VW-D's. I STILL run into people that bought an early
1.5L car new and insist every VW-D does nothing but blow headgaskets and
overheat and don't start if it's even chilly out, etc, etc, etc.
None of them can account for the last like, million miles I've driven
them with little to no incident. For the record I've only had two die in service, and they
were both batteries that crapped out of the blue in grocery store parking lots.
I took a fire hydrant in the drivers rear door of an 85 TD Jetta once in the rain @60mph
after being cut off and trying to evade, and drove the car six miles home.
They got heart. Treat em right and they will
take care of you and yours.
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They got heart. Treat em right and they will
take care of you and yours.
Character too, but mine doesn't like to treat me right.. haha.
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They got heart. Treat em right and they will
take care of you and yours.
Character too, but mine doesn't like to treat me right.. haha.
There's a reason my car is named Jezebel... she has a way of playing tricks on me for sure. Though she usually gives me some warning first.
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They got heart. Treat em right and they will
take care of you and yours.
Character too, but mine doesn't like to treat me right.. haha.
Heh.. Character for sure.
I'd like to say it's why I still drive them, and I do drive something else now and again for a year or so.
But I always come back. Rattles and leaks and annoyance galore with aging chassis, questionable road
manners, declining parts quality, etc, etc, always back.
I've owned and been around some of the best cars every made, every iconic Euro car from E30's to
Saab 99's and everything in-between, lots of diesels, some fast gassers, some not, etc, etc. While
an 80's redblock Volvo is close, and so is a W123 Merc-D, there isn't anything cheaper or simpler or
easier or more reliable if one does there part than an IDI VW-D in my experience.
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Are both your caddy's Non-turbo? If so, then yeah pretty damn reliable.
For ultimate reliability I would have a mechanical 1.9 1Z/AHU with no turbo, a header and a long tube gasser intake.
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They have both been both a few times , couple jettas too. Stock TD's don't live as long but haven't been less reliable really. I've probly got 500k across a couple over the years, rest were NA. Course they were younger and original. Hell neither father or I have ever replaced a headgasket other than for worn heads or weeping external oil. Just lucky maybe. If they weren't reliable as crap I wouldn't put up with the noisy rattly things. ;D
The 82 has a NA AAZ in it now, pretty decent combo. MPG has never been what it should, but it's been steady for 140k or so now.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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Are both your caddy's Non-turbo? If so, then yeah pretty damn reliable.
For ultimate reliability I would have a mechanical 1.9 1Z/AHU with no turbo, a header and a long tube gasser intake.
1Y already has the right ports to match the AAZ/TDI head ;-)
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Are both your caddy's Non-turbo? If so, then yeah pretty damn reliable.
For ultimate reliability I would have a mechanical 1.9 1Z/AHU with no turbo, a header and a long tube gasser intake.
1Y already has the right ports to match the AAZ/TDI head ;-)
Yup, that'd be the best of all engines right there.
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I'd like to spend some more time with a TDI eventually. Preferably in a chassis I'm familiar with.
Every time I start thinking seriously about it though I end up saying to myself..
"but what about a 4BT in a 77 Buick wagon?"
In circles I go.
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I love your guys conversations ha but id like to do alittle update here! So got the new injectors from Oregon and got them in running the truck now i set the IP to 1.00mm and she starts and runs without cold start in 30 degree weather but there seems to be a lot of white smoke. So i messed around with the max fuel screw not knowing what im doing but i figure whats the harm adjusting it alittle along with the screw that controls the idle i can make them line up and i have gotten it to smoke less it seems like.. I cant tell if its because its cold outside or if its because of the engine still white smoke im gonna start it up tomorrow and see if it was cuz of the cold or what. Anyway! sorry to ramble here.
My questions now are:
How do i fix the white smoke issue? What is it suppose to be normally?
Also How should i adjust the max fuel screw and idle screw? Is there a sweet spot?
Lastly is my 1.00mm IP timing correct? or should i adjust that?
Just trying to learn more thank you guys! Hope your all having a good one!
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I love your guys conversations ha but id like to do alittle update here! So got the new injectors from Oregon and got them in running the truck now i set the IP to 1.00mm and she starts and runs without cold start in 30 degree weather but there seems to be a lot of white smoke. So i messed around with the max fuel screw not knowing what im doing but i figure whats the harm adjusting it alittle along with the screw that controls the idle i can make them line up and i have gotten it to smoke less it seems like.. I cant tell if its because its cold outside or if its because of the engine still white smoke im gonna start it up tomorrow and see if it was cuz of the cold or what. Anyway! sorry to ramble here.
My questions now are:
How do i fix the white smoke issue? What is it suppose to be normally?
Also How should i adjust the max fuel screw and idle screw? Is there a sweet spot?
Lastly is my 1.00mm IP timing correct? or should i adjust that?
Just trying to learn more thank you guys! Hope your all having a good one!
you are jumping around too much. you shouldn't be touching your fuel screw yet.
in those temps you should be using your cold start lever and let it warm up a bit with it pulled out, thats what the manual says its there for.
so with the lever out how is it starting in those temps and how is the smoke pattern a minute after startup?
it only gets down into the teens winter here but for example i go outside in the morning and pull the lever, let the glowplugs cycle once and then hit the key. bam almost instant startup with an initial cough of smoke. maybe a few stumbles but the car will run smooth, although nosier, and idle without a constant puffing of smoke.
post a video of your cold startup procedure with a look at pipe and engine bay for noise. i would totally do by ear timing but you kind of need to know the noise of a healthy engine. you don't want it to sound like somebody is taking a hammer to the engine if you advance the pump until there is no constant white smoke.
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well when i first started it with the cold start pulled it would start up and then i let it warm up and i turned off the cold start through it all it just seems to be a constantly white smoking.
I will try and take some videos tomorrow to show it.
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You aren't going to know how it acts, or smokes, till you drive it and really warm it up. Unless you let it run with the hood closed for 30-45 minutes
it still isn't really warmed up as driving with a load on it across an RPM range will provide. An oil temp gauge will illustrate this fact.
Ambient temp will effect a tired injection pump too.
That 81 Caddy in my sig started with that tired, 300K+ motor and 300k+ injection pump starting up rough,
smoking white, and getting 38mpg, and over the course of 5K miles and some timing tweaking it
got to the steady MPG seen below and no smoke unless it was really cold out.
Take one thing at a time, and put a few miles on it.
If it starts up mostly as damac said, it's probly essentially OK.
Drive it, if coolant temps and oil pressure are good and no bad sounds, drive it hard.
They like that.
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You aren't going to know how it acts, or smokes, till you drive it and really warm it up. Unless you let it run with the hood closed for 30-45 minutes
it still isn't really warmed up as driving with a load on it across an RPM range will provide. An oil temp gauge will illustrate this fact.
Ambient temp will effect a tired injection pump too.
That 81 Caddy in my sig started with that tired, 300K+ motor and 300k+ injection pump starting up rough,
smoking white, and getting 38mpg, and over the course of 5K miles and some timing tweaking it
got to the steady MPG seen below and no smoke unless it was really cold out.
Take one thing at a time, and put a few miles on it.
If it starts up mostly as damac said, it's probly essentially OK.
Drive it, if coolant temps and oil pressure are good and no bad sounds, drive it hard.
They like that.
right on! ill take it around the block tomorrow and then report back
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If it's safe, go put ten miles on it.
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If it's safe, go put ten miles on it.
Okay ill try. Any suggestions on how i should have the timing on the pump? or the fuel screw? I did mess around with it a little.
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It's good practice when you adjust anything to make sure you put it back where it started at, if you can do that. If you have to back off the idle screw, put it back where it was and then back the fuel screw
to where it has a normal idle RPM, if it's all totally gone you'll just have to watch the smoke. It ought not to smoke black much under full throttle at the stock setting, a little but not much.
Play it by eye. Tons of black smoke under accel is bad.
On the timing I still start with a stock-ish spec and tweak it by ear and feel from there. Honestly with mostly stock parts on mostly stock motors, the stock
spec works fine, even if it's not ideal. Read the hell out of the bentley manual. On an unknown motor/pump I usually static time to .90 and advance it if it feels weak until it clatters too much when warmed up good. I don't like to hear one clattering like a SOB myself, but that's more a personal belief than a technical one. Unless you have some weird popping injectors or a weird pump 1mm is usually more than enough.
If things are not stock that's all out the window and other folks can advise you better. Remember that that the pump advances timing with increasing RPM, and they do so less-well as they age and wear.
It's a battle of making-do. I've also found my rear isn't a good dyno, and MPG across a couple tanks tells a better tale of what's going on. It makes it a very long process tuning sometimes. When I win the lotto I'll
have a chassis dyno in the shop and save myself some time. :)
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Okay so just drove it down the street and back and it actually seems to run pretty decent not a ton of smoke but i seem to be having an issue with the temperature the temp gauge is really hot and my radiator fan isn't turning on. Could this be like an IP issue? or could it be somthing else like just with the radiator thermo switch and that sorta stuff?
Just to add alittle detial the little thermo switch thats hooked up on the side of my radiator is brand new and i put in a brand new thermostat too.
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A cheap IR thermometer will tell you what the deal is. Measure the radiator sections, hoses, etc.
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Is it running hot at highway speeds?
If so, it's not the fan that's the prob, though it should be on if it's really hot.
If it's just running hot when not moving and the fan isn't coming on, it's fan related.
IR thermo is good, test light to check the thermoswitch and straight wire the fan briefly to make sure it
works at all. If you have AC, turning that on should kick the fan on as well.
Don't overheat it. Bad juju.
And don't trust a stock gauge untill you've spent a long time with it, and only a little then.
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pretty much just driving it on the street i sorta live in hilly area but just driving it like 40ish and then coming up a hill i feel its under powered like im at WOT in 2nd making it up but its not like really fast maybe thats just how it is for hills?
The fan works i jumped it with the battery.
Also the truck is an A/C truck but all the lines and stuff were taken out by Previous owner i did turn the dials to A/c and still no fan came on.
on the thermo switch is there a ground and a +? or could it be either one? maybe i have it wired up wrong. I was also thinking of just making a wire from the thermo switch + to the + on the fan and then ground the fan and ground the thermo switch to the battery warm up the truck and then see if it turns the fan on that way like bypassing all the fuses and fuse box would this be an option?
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Yeah, the PO probably took out the relay needed to pass the juice to the fan. It sometimes lives(d) on the fan shroud. Clue is no-fan w/defrost or AC.
I would proceed with the direct wire, as proposed.
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On my latest 1.6TD acquisition after resealing the pump doing the waterpump and putting on a new belt and such. I timed it to 1.00mm exactly, where it was hard starting and smoked white once it did.
I feel that with the white smoke you probably need to retard the timing just a touch.
I would recommend adding one of them triple gauge setups, so you can accurately measure what is going on in there. On top of that, I like the idea of a an added fan switch so you can manually over ride the system for whatever situation. Me personally, I only have a manual setup on my 84 M-TDI.
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so it really helps to have the correct wires plugged into the right spots. I figured out the radiator fan im gonna go drive it around the block it should come on now when it gets hotter
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What chassis is this in again?
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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so it really helps to have the correct wires plugged into the right spots. I figured out the radiator fan im gonna go drive it around the block it should come on now when it gets hotter
It shouldn't if the car is moving and air is coming through the radiator. ;) The gauge will likely have to climb near 3/4 to turn the fan on.
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so it really helps to have the correct wires plugged into the right spots. I figured out the radiator fan im gonna go drive it around the block it should come on now when it gets hotter
It shouldn't if the car is moving and air is coming through the radiator. ;) The gauge will likely have to climb near 3/4 to turn the fan on.
and it didnt! :P i was stoked it did come on though when i let it idle after driving it around so it all works im happy about that!
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What chassis is this in again?
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
its a 1981 caddy
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Okay back on topic now.
So here is how its looking the pump is 1.00mm and it smokes alittle white on start up but once it warms up i cant see any smoke while driving it and on WOT black smoke comes out and continues to come out til i let off the throttle and just cruising no smoke.
How should i go about getting alittle more power out of it? Or what should i do now? I feel that it can be tuned better it doesnt seem to idle completely perfect yet its alittle clanky.
I feel it should be able to take hills a little better and not be so slugish i can start a hill in 3 but then i have to go to that 2nd WOT to make it up and its just black smoking all the way ha
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There is another two/three prong plug in the engine bay that fits on the radiator fan? ;)
The fan works on a simple positive and negative.. Plug a positive jumper into one terminal and a negative jumper in to the other terminal. Fan turns on? Fan is good.
Okay back on topic now.
So here is how its looking the pump is 1.00mm and it smokes alittle white on start up but once it warms up i cant see any smoke while driving it and on WOT black smoke comes out and continues to come out til i let off the throttle and just cruising no smoke.
How should i go about getting alittle more power out of it? Or what should i do now? I feel that it can be tuned better it doesnt seem to idle completely perfect yet its alittle clanky.
I feel it should be able to take hills a little better and not be so slugish i can start a hill in 3 but then i have to go to that 2nd WOT to make it up and its just black smoking all the way ha
Where are you located?? Is it hard to start after it has sat over night?? What is your coldest yearly temperature?
A 1.6 Non Turbo will always smoke, its naturally aspirated lol. There is not much at all you can do for power, other than the Governor Mod.
What gearbox do you have in the truck??
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If you are at much elevation above sea level and your hills are more than a couple of percent grade, you are probly just enjoying life with a NA 1.6.
If your compressoin is good, your cam isn't worn, your fuel is good, your exhaust is clear, your intake is clear, your fuel system is tight, your assorted static timings are right,
your injectors spray well, and your pump advances as it should (that one is of note), your brakes aren't dragging, your alignment isn't wonky,
and you aren't carrying a ton of weight, that's getting to be about all there is to a NA motor.
People speak well of the gov mod, read up.
Otherwise save your pennys for a turbo if the truck is worth it to you.
One of the reasons I strive for ideals with these things, is without the turbo you got nothing but optimization left.
There is a marked difference between a NA 1.6 that runs "ok", which don't take much, and one that runs extremely well.
They are both slow, but the latter is enjoyable. At least to me. I've had both.
Trans gearing for your lifestyle/terrain is a thought as well.
I think personally if you put a (well) rebuilt pump on there and open the exhaust up you'll have a more enjoyable ride.
Assuming you aren't at 6K feet and trying to climb 7% grades and all the other bases are covered. :)
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If you are at much elevation above sea level and your hills are more than a couple of percent grade, you are probly just enjoying life with a NA 1.6.
If your compressoin is good, your cam isn't worn, your fuel is good, your exhaust is clear, your intake is clear, your fuel system is tight, your assorted static timings are right,
your injectors spray well, and your pump advances as it should (that one is of note), your brakes aren't dragging, your alignment isn't wonky,
and you aren't carrying a ton of weight, that's getting to be about all there is to a NA motor.
People speak well of the gov mod, read up.
Otherwise save your pennys for a turbo if the truck is worth it to you.
One of the reasons I strive for ideals with these things, is without the turbo you got nothing but optimization left.
There is a marked difference between a NA 1.6 that runs "ok", which don't take much, and one that runs extremely well.
They are both slow, but the latter is enjoyable. At least to me. I've had both.
Trans gearing for your lifestyle/terrain is a thought as well.
I think personally if you put a (well) rebuilt pump on there and open the exhaust up you'll have a more enjoyable ride.
Assuming you aren't at 6K feet and trying to climb 7% grades and all the other bases are covered. :)
Its funny i wish i had a 1.6L i got alittle dinky 1.5L which probably doesnt make it any better lol but yeah i live at about 5k feet and i guess the hills are pretty decent grade atleast where im at so i should just accept i wont be making up them fast but more slow and steady ha.
So i guess i should just work on fine tuning the pump and should i stay at the 1.00mm or should i maybe try and advancing or retarding it some is Advancing might give me alittle more power but less fuel correct?
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There is another two/three prong plug in the engine bay that fits on the radiator fan? ;)
The fan works on a simple positive and negative.. Plug a positive jumper into one terminal and a negative jumper in to the other terminal. Fan turns on? Fan is good.
Okay back on topic now.
So here is how its looking the pump is 1.00mm and it smokes alittle white on start up but once it warms up i cant see any smoke while driving it and on WOT black smoke comes out and continues to come out til i let off the throttle and just cruising no smoke.
How should i go about getting alittle more power out of it? Or what should i do now? I feel that it can be tuned better it doesnt seem to idle completely perfect yet its alittle clanky.
I feel it should be able to take hills a little better and not be so slugish i can start a hill in 3 but then i have to go to that 2nd WOT to make it up and its just black smoking all the way ha
Where are you located?? Is it hard to start after it has sat over night?? What is your coldest yearly temperature?
A 1.6 Non Turbo will always smoke, its naturally aspirated lol. There is not much at all you can do for power, other than the Governor Mod.
What gearbox do you have in the truck??
the truck is a little 1.5 NA and it has a 5 speed. I will look into this Governor mod!
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1.5NA is the worst for power of the lot, 48hp at like 4400rpm. Which explains why you have to run the bag off of it to get up a hill.. 5000ft elevation doesn't help either haha.
With the white smoke on start-up its telling me you are a smidgen too advanced. Back it down a touch until you get the perfect cold start then you have the best setting.
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While I have a fondness for the under-dog, I have very very seldom heard anything good about the 1.5.
Keep an eye out for a TD.
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1.5NA is the worst for power of the lot, 48hp at like 4400rpm. Which explains why you have to run the bag off of it to get up a hill.. 5000ft elevation doesn't help either haha.
With the white smoke on start-up its telling me you are a smidgen too advanced. Back it down a touch until you get the perfect cold start then you have the best setting.
haha yeah i figured i was gonna see amazing power out of it! and Okay ill try that out thanks man! much appreciated!
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While I have a fondness for the under-dog, I have very very seldom heard anything good about the 1.5.
Keep an eye out for a TD.
haha already ahead of you :P