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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: sixb on November 01, 2012, 05:13:45 pm
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I recently bought a 91 Eco-diesel in great shape with 150k. I have owned a few Dodge and Chevy diesels from the 80s and early 90s but this will be the first vehicle I've ever owned that has the potential of getting over 20 mpg. Currently I drive a 90 Dodge 2wd diesel that gets 18-19 in town with no od, it's a great truck and has 122k on it. The new Jetta will be my new dd from now on, but will keep the old Dodge around. I'm looking forward to learning about these old vw engines/cars and defiantly need to get a little more get up and go out of this little car. here's a picture of my vehicles.
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Nice truck! The Jettas alright too ;)
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Welcome aboard!
Nice, solid-looking MKII Jetta. Original color? Similar to my van, in Wolfram Grey. Interesting hubcaps... they look like Checker cab wheelcovers.
Ditch the whitewalls, (or turn them inwards) and you're looking much better. ;D
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Hub caps are pie pans JB welded in place. Tires are not whitewalls he just bought if from a guy that parked to close to the curb.
Welcome yeah,
That Dodge is going to get lonely now. Ecodiesel, turbo, 150K Very good find. And about that 20 mpg? Double it and add some more. That baby ought to get close to 50 and with the right Injection Pump (IP) settings you might even get some more on top of that. Depends on your daily drive and how lean you want to make it.
And clean, wow, I am envious.
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Like both the the car and truck; first body style to receive a Cummins all the way back in, what, '82 was it?
Either way, you'll like that Jetta. Get your factory service manual, stick with these forums, and you'll find that fixing these diesel VW's isn't as hard or expensive as you think.
Welcome aboard, and don't forget to ask questions! :)
P.S. Love the pie plates and white stripes.
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Wow that's an amazingly clean turbo diesel you have on your hands there! Take good care of her!
Welcome to the forums! ;D
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2
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Thanks for the welcome!
The old guy(80s) I bought it from was real proud of those hub caps! The tires are 12 years old with probably 5k on them. I will be buying new tires and wheels.
I'm the 3rd owner and the car is out of Nevada so it's rust free. That won't last long here in SALT Lake City winters, so I may look into some kind of undercoating for it.
The car is completely stock and everything works except for the factory radio. The ac even works and blows real cold but I suspect it may be going out, when you engage the compressor the car shakes real bad with the extra load. I'll deal with that next spring before the heat comes.
It's taken some reading on here to figure out what I have for sure.
MK2
K14 turbo
Non turbo pump
Coming soon,
2.5 turbo back exhaust
Up grade to the turbo style IP
Have the injectors tested and possibly upgraded
Boost, egt & rpm gauges
Tune for fun/economy and enjoy!
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does this car have some sort of weird plastic cover over the head lights?
the wheels are hideous. ad so are the white walls..
besides that, its an AWESOME mk2 Jetta.. wish mine were that nice..
welcome to the forum..
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Welcome aboard!
Nice, solid-looking MKII Jetta. Original color? Similar to my van, in Wolfram Grey. Interesting hubcaps... they look like Checker cab wheelcovers.
Ditch the whitewalls, (or turn them inwards) and you're looking much better. ;D
It does appear to be the original paint.
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Like both the the car and truck; first body style to receive a Cummins all the way back in, what, '82 was it?
Either way, you'll like that Jetta. Get your factory service manual, stick with these forums, and you'll find that fixing these diesel VW's isn't as hard or expensive as you think.
Welcome aboard, and don't forget to ask questions! :)
P.S. Love the pie plates and white stripes.
I'm pretty sure 89 was the first year for the CTD in a Dodge.
Thanks.
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does this car have some sort of weird plastic cover over the head lights?
the wheels are hideous. ad so are the white walls..
besides that, its an AWESOME mk2 Jetta.. wish mine were that nice..
welcome to the forum..
Yeah I wasn't sure it that was original or not on the head light covers.
Thanks.
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Picked up some new wheels and tires for the jetta today.
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(http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32328.0;attach=664;image)
SOOO much better! Good choice.
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/2/2c/2cda10c2_slow-clap.gif)
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Nice and clean
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Well my first tank came to 37 mpg, 489.8 miles and 13.1 gallons all city stop and go driving. I filled it like the last time until you could see fuel in the filler neck(13.1 gallons) but then was able to put another gallon in it by pushing the vent button that I learned about on this forum ;D I also bought some stuff to build a 2.5 exhaust for it, I'm thinking that will get me over 40 mpg in town. That cat with 2 mufflers has got to be restrictive. Also I'm gonna have to come up with some kind of drink holder for my morning coffee, what have ya'll done for drink holders?
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Well my first tank came to 37 mpg, 489.8 miles and 13.1 gallons all city stop and go driving. I filled it like the last time until you could see fuel in the filler neck(13.1 gallons) but then was able to put another gallon in it by pushing the vent button that I learned about on this forum ;D I also bought some stuff to build a 2.5 exhaust for it, I'm thinking that will get me over 40 mpg in town. That cat with 2 mufflers has got to be restrictive. Also I'm gonna have to come up with some kind of drink holder for my morning coffee, what have ya'll done for drink holders?
i use a cup/vacuum bottle with a button on it..
no liquid comes out (even when on its side or upside down) unless you push the button..
plus, the vacuum bottle keeps my coffee warm for half the day!
everyone else uses ford taurus cup holders..
and whats this button you speak of? my mk2 dont have no button in the fuel fill spout..
it did start out life as a gasser tho, maybe thats why i dont have the button.
should get better mileage as well.. mine did a pretty regular 40+mpg (closer to 45 actually) even with a close ratio GTI trans installed..
ive since installed a long ratio trans, and have not since checked my mileage.. i got 600 miles to a tank pretty religiously, even with the close ratio trans..
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I wedge my travel mug between the e-brake handle and the seat.
I've never owned a car with cup-holders before, and I always seem to manage to find a place to keep my coffee.
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Well my first tank came to 37 mpg, 489.8 miles and 13.1 gallons all city stop and go driving. I filled it like the last time until you could see fuel in the filler neck(13.1 gallons) but then was able to put another gallon in it by pushing the vent button that I learned about on this forum ;D I also bought some stuff to build a 2.5 exhaust for it, I'm thinking that will get me over 40 mpg in town. That cat with 2 mufflers has got to be restrictive. Also I'm gonna have to come up with some kind of drink holder for my morning coffee, what have ya'll done for drink holders?
i use a cup/vacuum bottle with a button on it..
no liquid comes out (even when on its side or upside down) unless you push the button..
plus, the vacuum bottle keeps my coffee warm for half the day!
everyone else uses ford taurus cup holders..
and whats this button you speak of? my mk2 dont have no button in the fuel fill spout..
it did start out life as a gasser tho, maybe thats why i dont have the button.
should get better mileage as well.. mine did a pretty regular 40+mpg (closer to 45 actually) even with a close ratio GTI trans installed..
ive since installed a long ratio trans, and have not since checked my mileage.. i got 600 miles to a tank pretty religiously, even with the close ratio trans..
The button/lever is in the filler neck to the left.
I do hope I can get in the 40s city driving. I live at 4500 ft and all my driving is 3 to 10 mile trips with lots of lights and traffic so I'm happy with 37 also my speedo is fast, speedo says 40 gps says 37 not sure if that really affects my mpg calc. by much. The exhaust looks original and if so that's a lot of soot going through that cat over the years, so I'm really hoping for some improvement with that mod. I can't believe there are 2 mufflers under there to ??? just seems like a ton of restriction to me.
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Just delete the cat with a straight piece of pipe. Leave the mufflers alone. Two exits are half the flow to each side. Less restrictive not more.
If you use the GPS to figure out the difference between speeds than you should be able to run with it for a while to determine if the odometer is off as well. Generally that is the case. GPS says 37 and speedo, Not the suit, says 40 40/37= 1.08 or 8% off. If the odometer is the same then you are figuring more miles for mpg than you actually drove. 100 miles would actually be 92.
I have mine dialed in and it is 6.372% off. Roughly 6 more miles on a 100. So when I calc the mpg I have to add to the odometer ones. Then divide by the gallons to get it correctly.
My coffee holder is my hand or between the Ebrake and Passenger seat. Find the right insulated cup and it fits just fine. 8)
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Just delete the cat with a straight piece of pipe. Leave the mufflers alone. Two exits are half the flow to each side. Less restrictive not more.
If you use the GPS to figure out the difference between speeds than you should be able to run with it for a while to determine if the odometer is off as well. Generally that is the case. GPS says 37 and speedo, Not the suit, says 40 40/37= 1.08 or 8% off. If the odometer is the same then you are figuring more miles for mpg than you actually drove. 100 miles would actually be 92.
I have mine dialed in and it is 6.372% off. Roughly 6 more miles on a 100. So when I calc the mpg I have to add to the odometer ones. Then divide by the gallons to get it correctly.
My coffee holder is my hand or between the Ebrake and Passenger seat. Find the right insulated cup and it fits just fine. 8)
Thanks, for the info.
The exhaust has only one tail pipe with both mufflers inline.
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nice car, definitely can get better mileage, delete the cat, and the muffler; it was the first thing i did to my ECO and i saw almost immediate gains. I also saw mileage gains by INCREASING my max fuel screw (i dont know if this is because its the even more underpowered ECO pump or not) also im running an ACN transmission and it will net way better mileage than the AVX. you will definitely enjoy your new toy ;D
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Here is a photo of the vent in the filler neck of my 1992 ECOdiesel.
(http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx336/Kragges/1C544FF0-2483-49C9-B39A-D410A96D5A5D-95938-000019A93E8C3C0A.jpg)
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Wait a minute? Inline mufflers? One pipe? Ecodiesel? Something isn't adding up here with the cat in line. On the diesel isn't it a resonator that is in there first and then at the end of the line a muffler. All run through a skinny straw line exhaust pipe?
Maybe a picture of the system will clarify. I thought you had the gas motor until I went back to the pictures initially posted and see the engine bay.
Not sure what to say now.
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Wait a minute? Inline mufflers? One pipe? Ecodiesel? Something isn't adding up here with the cat in line. On the diesel isn't it a resonator that is in there first and then at the end of the line a muffler. All run through a skinny straw line exhaust pipe?
Maybe a picture of the system will clarify. I thought you had the gas motor until I went back to the pictures initially posted and see the engine bay.
Not sure what to say now.
yep inline, what else can it be? on my 92 eco, down pipe /cat one piece, resonator, then muffler. 1.75" i.d. throughout. I believe my 81 N/A caddy exhaust is 1.5" i.d.
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everything is in a series on a VW.. there is only one exhaust stream..
the center muffler is NOT a muffler, but a resonator..
the muffler is at the end of the system..
the resonator shouldnt be nearly as restrictive as the cat or muffler tho.
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Also I'm gonna have to come up with some kind of drink holder for my morning coffee, what have ya'll done for drink holders?
welcome aborad! sweet mkII and sweeter choice on the new wheels!
there was a thread on cup holders some time ago... IIRC there was some cool and crazy solutions for cup holders you should find it with the search feature tho...
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I have put a little over 5000 miles on it since buying the car.
I'm averaging about 35/36 mpg all city stop and go driving.
I've had it on one road trip and got a best of 41 mpg.
The only problems so far was the driver side glass fell out of the door mirror but didn't break.
The car wont start when it gets near zero degrees but is fine in the teens. I can't plug it in.
Still happy with the car and looking forward to warmer weather so I can do the exhaust and a brake job.
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Great find! I have the EXACT same car. 91 Jetta Eco Diesel Ascot Grey Metallic is the paint. I have had a ton of fun fixing and modifying this little car.
Since I have gotten it I have gone straight pipe with the exhaust from the downpipe. It dumps driverside right in front of the rear tire. No clamps, no resonator, no muffler, just a pleasantly loud bark with a hint of whistle from the turbo. I LOVE driving around with the windows down, radio off. Its only loud when you jump on the go pedal.
As for the AC issue, you may wanna try adjusting the idle a little higher. The AC is causing the car to shake because its lowering the RPM with the drag on the motor it creates. If you dont wanna fiddle with the idle you could always just pull the cold start advance when youre driving with the AC on. It did the trick for me until I started fooling around with the fuel screw and idle.
I am curious if you have the same transmission I had. It was TERRIBLE for interstate driving, and I switched it out with an ASF I got out of a gasser 8V. Would you be so kind as to looking under the car from the front, and reading the little code on the flat part of the tranny, and share your findings?
Again really sweet find. This community is awesome for getting help. Just make sure you use the search feature before asking, SO MUCH stuff has been talked about and re-talked about in this forum. Pleasantly enough, no on has issues with you bringing back an old thread from the dead if something about it still left you with questions.
A pic of my 91...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/asshesits.jpg)
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dieselbalz I will look at the code but will have to wait for warmer weather, probably be a few weeks at least.
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And not to hijack your thread, but another sot of the car where you can see the side exhaust, and a video to hear how it sounds straight pipe.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/DSC_0960.jpg)
http://youtu.be/FNdMjLiDYd4
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dieselbalz I will look at the code but will have to wait for warmer weather, probably be a few weeks at least.
Ecodiesels came with AVX from the factory.
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I forgot one other issue the car is having, is sometimes the glow plug light will blink. After a search I found out it's also the water in fuel indicator. I opened the valve but nothing came out so there is obviously water in there since I know last fall fuel came out when I opened it. I think I'm just gonna delete it when it warms up, it should warm up enough in the next few days to at least drain the water I hope.
I will have to run at least a muffler due to inspections and will run it out the back since my kids are with me so much and having the exhaust dump right there by the back door would be a problem.
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Why would you want to delete the water in fuel setup if it works? Would you rather ruin your IP and injectors when you get a bad batch of fuel? The drain tube or valve may be clogged. Try to unclog it and drain it and see if the blinking stops. If it stops the WIF system is working. Clean and inspect the condition of the plastic housing. If it is good I would suggest keeping it and carry a piece of fuel hose and tools to bypass it when it decides to spring a leak.
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With the quality of today's diesel fuel, the water separator is really not needed. Not to mention the fuel filter itself has the capacity to remove water from the system. Its really down to personal preference.
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If I remember correctly the fuel filter has a drain and would just use that.
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If you are intent on deleting it, don't destroy it when taking it off. If in good shape I'll buy it from you.
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If you are intent on deleting it, don't destroy it when taking it off. If in good shape I'll buy it from you.
Agreed, when working it was designed fora purpose that is useful.
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It may be true that with the diesel of the day this might not be needed.
But that is in a perfect world. How many threads have we just seen where someone got a tank full of crappy fuel? This item if not totally messing up your fuel delivery may save your butt and the cost of a filter. Granted they are not that expensive but you may not have the cash or the ability to buy one at 1 am on a Sat night.
Most of us have spare parts in the trunk because we are old Boy Scouts or Preppers. Just my sense of what would be good here.
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The big problem is the water separators crack and let air in. They cause all sorts of problems but don't really provide any benefit.
I haven't seen a single thread in the past 5 years about someone having water in their fuel causing them problems, but I've seen dozens of threads about water separators causing starting problems and all sorts of other things.
The water separator built in to all the current filters works great. You'll find there is rarely any water on it though since it's pretty unusual to actually find water in your fuel unless you like to leave the fuel cap off all the time.
Also modern cars like the PDs are way more sensitive to fuel quality than these old IDIs. None of them have separate water separators. The IDI will run on just about anything, modern diesels not so much.
If water is getting on to the fuel you are using then the BIG problem you are going to have is algae, not the the water itself. Algae will grow in badly stored diesel and will then fill your tank with black slime, clogging your pickup, filter and pump. It needs water to grow though. That's why stations are so careful these days (that and if water is getting in to the storage tank chances are diesel is getting out). Quite simply here in 2013 with all the modern engines out there and the environmental regs we have stations with leaky tanks selling crappy fuel can't stay in business.
I'm not saying "you must remove your water separator" by any means but it certainly isn't going to do much for you. Now of you want some protection, the stock fuel filter is really only so good at actually filtering. Upgrading to a finer micron filter (or installing one after the stock filter) would do a LOT more for your fuel quality.
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the a/c thing; the a/c shakes the engine some at idle but excessive shaking could be your motor mounts. they may want changing.
as far as the fuel i've in the past 5-7 years had a bad load of fuel, i always go to a station i know. not just a random station or cos of a lower price.
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With the quality of today's diesel fuel, the water separator is really not needed. Not to mention the fuel filter itself has the capacity to remove water from the system. Its really down to personal preference.
True, the quality of fuel is better today than in 85. However, the water in fuel does not come from the refinery, it is introduced afterwards. All you need is one batch of bad fuel to ruin your day. Here is an example
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=32805.0
The fuel filter does not and cannot remove water from the system. The water separator, with a (working) water in fuel warning system, gives you ample time to take action before damage to your injection pump occurs and prevent you from getting stranded.
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With the quality of today's diesel fuel, the water separator is really not needed. Not to mention the fuel filter itself has the capacity to remove water from the system. Its really down to personal preference.
True, the quality of fuel is better today than in 85. However, the water in fuel does not come from the refinery, it is introduced afterwards. All you need is one batch of bad fuel to ruin your day. Here is an example
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=32805.0
The fuel filter does not and cannot remove water from the system. The water separator, with a (working) water in fuel warning system, gives you ample time to take action before damage to your injection pump occurs and prevent you from getting stranded.
The mk 2 and 3 filters most certainly can and do remove water as they have a built in water separator. That's why there is a water drain on the bottom of them.
They do NOT have a water in fuel sensor though which would certainly be a nice addition. That is one area where the original mk 2 separators have some value. Except that they tend to go bad and indicate water in the fuel when there isn't really.
Bryn
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...they tend to go bad and indicate water in the fuel when there isn't really.
Plus, the original units get brittle and leak. When I removed one of mine, it crumbled apart in my hands.
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The mk 2 and 3 filters most certainly can and do remove water as they have a built in water separator. That's why there is a water drain on the bottom of them.
They do NOT have a water in fuel sensor though which would certainly be a nice addition. That is one area where the original mk 2 separators have some value. Except that they tend to go bad and indicate water in the fuel when there isn't really.
Bryn
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Having a drain does not mean the filter can remove water automatically. You have to do it. What do you do when you get a bad batch of fuel with more than a gallon of water in it? Wait for the engine to crap out before you know there's a problem? Yes, some of the water separator degrades with age and let's air in. If you have one that is sound and holds vacuum with a working WIF indicator, I'd suggest keeping it.
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Everyone has a different opinion. Myself I would remove it as it always leaks and causes more problems. That said, you could install a functional one if you were worried about water in its place.
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Everyone has a different opinion. Myself I would remove it as it always leaks and causes more problems. That said, you could install a functional one if you were worried about water in its place.
That's basically my point... A Racor filter with an integral water sensor will do a better job filtering your fuel, give you the water in fuel alert and won't screw you over by letting air in. If I was going to bolt something on to my car that wasn't there currently, a 20 year old factory separator that has a solid history of giving false alarms and causing fuel leaks would not be my choice. Actually I'm adding that to my TDI build parts list now!!
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................................................... A Racor filter with an integral water sensor will do a better job filtering your fuel, give you the water in fuel alert and won't screw you over by letting air in. .......................................
Now you're talking! I was reading somewhere about a late model Mercedes Bluetec needing the entire fuel system replaced to the tune of $5K due to rust in the fuel system, not covered by warranty! Don't know if the Mercedes has a water in fuel warning or not. My guess is not.
What about late model Ford and Cummins diesel trucks? Do they have a water in fuel warning system?
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Yes the Cummins and my old Chevy diesels have the water in fuel indicator and I've never gotten an alarm ever. I like the Racor idea and will have to look into that a bit more.
I finally got a chance to see what's up with the water separator and well last fall when I purchased the vehicle I had a local body shop spray the under carriage with a protective coating to help prevent rust in the future and it looks like they coated the cap pretty good. I did unscrew it all the way and fuel did come out, didn't notice any water either.
I had to unplug the ac compressor in order to use the defrost this winter so I didn't going crazy with the shacking. I will also be looking into the motor mounts when the weather warms up a bit. It would be nice if I don't have to replace the compressor yet.
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the a/c thing; the a/c shakes the engine some at idle but excessive shaking could be your motor mounts. they may want changing.
as far as the fuel i've in the past 5-7 years had a bad load of fuel, i always go to a station i know. not just a random station or cos of a lower price.
I like to add a fan-on light and a manual toggle to kill the AC comp when the defroster is on for my VW-D's. The AC switch helps a lot in town with a NA 1.6L, especially with tired motor mounts.
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A light to show you the rad fan is on?? Should be stupid simple to wire up, In either of your cars in the sig the wiring will be in the cabin from the fuse box.
Just tap a small gauge wire in to the rad fans power and have a LED indicator somewhere in the dash.
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Yes the Cummins and my old Chevy diesels have the water in fuel indicator and I've never gotten an alarm ever. .............................
That's because you are lucky and never got a batch of bad fuel. I hope you are not saying that because you never got an alarm that the water in fuel warning system is not needed.
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I had some bad fuel last month.. In Canada.. where water in the fuel at -20c would be a serious issue.. PLUS I got it from a truck stop on our province's main highway..
Our fuel is top notch and still has water in it..
Water detection is a must. I got totally stranded on a fresh fuel filter..