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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: wdkingery on October 12, 2012, 09:13:09 pm
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My route home from school changed 2 weeks ago, forcing me to take a longer path that has a 70 mph speed limit. Usually I do a static 54 mph, but Considering I spend so little on fuel, I have decided to hold the skinny pedal to the floor for increasingly long stretches, sometimes for 5-7 minutes at a time. Top speed around 80 (it gets quieter then??)
I normally run my fuel filters until the car won't go anymore, or struggles to. But the other day, at only 50 mph, the car just stopped running. Coasted off the road, changed the fuel filter.. Seemed fine. Awful strange how the fuel filter cut out like a light tho.. Normally they die a slow death. Well, the next day, same thing. So I changed the fuel filter again today, and went for a drive.
Final verdict is: if I go more than 60 mph for more than 5 minutes, the gas pedal slowly does less and less, until it struggles. If I pull over, it will shut off immediately. Let it sit, crank and crank, and it will run fine again. It's almost as if the pump cannot get the fuel fast enough. The pump doesn't have to draw its own fuel, as I have an electric lift pump off a diesel v8 Chevy.
Clogged return line or something? It is slowly getting worse it seems. I had the smoke screw turned down for the summer; i just turned it back up today, but haven't had a test drive since.
On a lighter note: before I started doggin it, I was getting just under 40 mpg on a 50/50 blend of motor oil to diesel, for an average of 77-85 miles-per-paid-gallon, for a cost per mile of between 4.5-5.1 cents, depending on diesel prices and mppg. I have now gone thru 3 fuel filters (I converted to the spin on kind gas stations use,) 2 1-micron bag filters, and about 200 gallons of motor oil. 200 gallons times $3.86 per gallon = $772 saved, minus the 5 filters and about $50 in fuel collecting the motor oil. Have had to pull my injectors three times to clean them. Injection pump timing is at 1.41 mm now.. Seems to like the timing more and more. Have been about 10k miles now.
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Sounds like something's gummed up. If you have access to one, hook a mityvac up and see if you can pull fuel through the supply and return lines (I forget if the return just has a dump on the top of the tank or an actual pick up). If they pull/push fine, try running this tank down and filling up on straight diesel w/ some diesel cleaner and stabilizer and see if that cleans it out. If they don't, get something to clean the hard lines like a speedo cable on the end of a drill, and replace the soft lines. One last thing I'd ask is if your lift pump is worn, causing it to slow down or stop after heating up which would cause enough of a restriction.
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If you have to change your filter even once in 10,000 miles, you should be running a restriction gauge or light.
Just to eliminate eazy stuff, try a run with the fuel cap loose/off, and maybe the same at the muffler.
Can you drain a sample form the bottom of your fuel tank?
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These pumps use fuel to cool themselves...just like every in tank push pump on a gasser. If you are doing this repeatedly it is not going to have a positive result on the wear characteristics of the pump. I would spend more on filters and change it faster. The lift side of the pump is probably getting weaker everytime you run it short. Yes there is a pusher pump, but the lift pump is for internal pump pressure. The more pressure the more advance it has...probably why you keep adding more advance and it likes it. Just some observations, as I am not the final authority, but I would think I am not far off. I bet if you add that savings on fuel for a pump rebuild you will be right at 0.00 saved and ready to start again.
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There is this too.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5856741-Volkswagon-Diesel-Injection-Pump
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When this engine totally craps out, I hope you will pull the head and show us photos of the piston tops so we can see how much etching has occurred in this "experiment."
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You need fuel as you see.50/50 is nothing on warm wether.
Much better is 1m static(hidro filter) than bag filter.Do you check in tank mash?Try only D for some time to see.Put clear lines from IP to see if is air in.
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One last thing I'd ask is if your lift pump is worn, causing it to slow down or stop after heating up which would cause enough of a restriction.
looks like my lift pump was gettin hot and poopin out on me .. just threw it in the ditch at the bank at the corner of hell and nowhere today so.. we'll see on the way home if it was the problem
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'85 Jetta?
Do you still have the water seperator and check valve?
Where was the fuel pump located?
Throwing it in the ditch was littering. I hope you kept it and realised it might be getting hot because it had to pull so hard due to a restriction.
I hope you go back and pick up your mess.
Vacuum gauge on the fuel line!
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'85 Jetta?
Do you still have the water seperator and check valve?
Where was the fuel pump located?
Throwing it in the ditch was littering. I hope you kept it and realised it might be getting hot because it had to pull so hard due to a restriction.
I hope you go back and pick up your mess.
Vacuum gauge on the fuel line!
ok i didn't really throw it in the ditch.. it was added for emphasis. it's in the trunk.
but yes i do have the water separator thing, and it no longer spits out water since i started on wmo; in fact it doesn't release any liquid any more. and i'm not adverse to getting rid of it. would you get rid of it? how to do this?
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Nah, picking up litter makes the local civics groups feel important!
Pull your in-trunk tin plate and inspect your lines entering and exitting the sender for cracks or mouse bites. Then, pull the sender, carefully pop off the little bottom-cover cap, and use carb cleaner or gas to clean the minute nylon screen located there. I had to do the same on my 85 last winter.
If ambitious, use a little electric pump to drain the tank and then use a bunch of lint-free clothes to wipe the inside of the tank clean (while it is still in the car). There is no baffle in these plastic tanks and wiping it clean is not bad. Reaching in there to clean it is a lot like helping a cow have a calf....although you urban dudes wouldn't know squat about THAT!
Less time in front of the keyboard and more real work will have you up and running.
The water seperator? You get rid of it by going back and reading the sentence immediately preceding this one.
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Nah, picking up litter makes the local civics groups feel important!
i so wanted to say that, but i didn't actually litter..
got any advice on a water separator? i'd like to have one.
i didn't see how your info shows how to delete the separator, but i'm sure i'll see it when i get home
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Nah, picking up litter makes the local civics groups feel important!
i so wanted to say that, but i didn't actually litter..
got any advice on a water separator? i'd like to have one.
i didn't see how your info shows how to delete the separator, but i'm sure i'll see it when i get home
i would delete the mk2 water separator AND filter..
i would UPGRADE to a mk1 filter/separator, and a racor if you can afford it.. they are about $100 for a base and element..
ive got no dedicated water separator on my car, just the built in separators in the mk1, and racor filters.. my Racor has a clear bowl on the bottom.. makes it easy to check for water..
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i would delete the mk2 water separator AND filter..
i would UPGRADE to a mk1 filter/separator, and a racor if you can afford it.. they are about $100 for a base and element..
ive got no dedicated water separator on my car, just the built in separators in the mk1, and racor filters.. my Racor has a clear bowl on the bottom.. makes it easy to check for water..
you say the water separator also has a filter on it, or you refer to the filter up near the IP?
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Just delete that white box under the car by the rear passenger seat. I think there is 2 lines, one in an one out. Cut and splice and then throw that white box in the ditch.
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Just delete that white box under the car by the rear passenger seat. I think there is 2 lines, one in an one out. Cut and splice and then throw that white box in the ditch.
That caused me to laugh out loud in class and gather attention to myself.
Thank you for the info.
Anything on a water separator? a 1986 6.9L IDI will also leak (air) at the water separator, and i haven't figured out a water separatin solution for that thing either
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Get a filter with a water drain from a MK1 like R.O.R. sez. Negates the other water separator; you can even use your old filter base just fine. The racor is great as well, especially for getting fine particles out of waste fuel mixes.
Is water separation a big problem with those running WMO mixes? I know that diesel has gotten good enough that a big separator really isn't needed anymore, but mixes are always the wild card.
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Get a filter with a water drain from a MK1 like R.O.R. sez. Negates the other water separator; you can even use your old filter base just fine. The racor is great as well, especially for getting fine particles out of waste fuel mixes.
Is water separation a big problem with those running WMO mixes? I know that diesel has gotten good enough that a big separator really isn't needed anymore, but mixes are always the wild card.
Well I don't think I've had a problem with water, but it's inevitable that I will, because people almost always allow water to get in the oil before I get my hands on it. And I have processes for dealing with the water (mostly including leaving the water in the bottom of the container and working from the top down) but I'd still like to have a backup.
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So I had my lil pump (that I did not throw in the ditch) SLOWLY draining my tank, and I got under the vehicle to stare at the water separator while I was waiting.. I figured hell let me just open it to see what it does.. Well the whole separator was sucked up tight, and returned to the correct shape when the knob was turned! Damn thing was under hella vacuum! My poor injection pump! I guess I'm kinda glad I had the lift pump to take the brunt of it.
Reckon I damaged the ip? Would be a shame that a restriction wiped my pump out before my wmo cocktail managed to.
I guess it's still possible that the clog was in the tank, and the water separator was just the thing to show the symptoms of vacuum. But I cut the damned thing loose, and I'm fixin to splice the lines back together and find out. Or maybe ill drop the tank.. Can't really do much from inside the car through that little peep hole.
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i would delete the mk2 water separator AND filter..
i would UPGRADE to a mk1 filter/separator, and a racor if you can afford it.. they are about $100 for a base and element..
ive got no dedicated water separator on my car, just the built in separators in the mk1, and racor filters.. my Racor has a clear bowl on the bottom.. makes it easy to check for water..
you say the water separator also has a filter on it, or you refer to the filter up near the IP?
no, im saying i would get rid of the water separator (under car)
and i would also get rid of the STOCK MK2 FUEL FILTER AS WELL
and replace it with a mk1 fuel filter.. they have the water separator, and filter all in the same package..
and you can do everything you need to, thru the access cover in the car..
golf is easy.. Jetta you have to climb in the trunk...
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It seems the fuel lines prevented me from lifting the sending unit out of the tank at all. I was hoping to scoot the sock off the bottom of the pickup tube (assuming it has one)
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There's a check valve in the line in front of the seperator that should be removed too.
I think it's all 5/16"/8mm stuff.
Your fuel filter in the engine bay probably has a water seperator on it.
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Is water separation a big problem with those running WMO mixes?
I use 95 % acetone (not one of wive) in a range of 0.2-.5%,It BOND water and oil so no way your IP will ever see JUST water,and you get some clean.
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Nah, picking up litter makes the local civics groups feel important!
i so wanted to say that, but i didn't actually litter..
got any advice on a water separator? i'd like to have one.
i didn't see how your info shows how to delete the separator, but i'm sure i'll see it when i get home
i would delete the mk2 water separator AND filter..
i would UPGRADE to a mk1 filter/separator, and a racor if you can afford it.. they are about $100 for a base and element..
ive got no dedicated water separator on my car, just the built in separators in the mk1, and racor filters.. my Racor has a clear bowl on the bottom.. makes it easy to check for water..
x10 on this.
I went with a big Racor turbine filter off a boat.
I also deleted that pesky separator, mine was badly leaking.
Pic-
before-
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/tinworm2/86%20VW%20Jetta/fuelthing.jpg)
after-
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/tinworm2/86%20VW%20Jetta/prefilterremoved.jpg)
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ugh.. well i figured it out, finally.
it would have been HELPFUL if the fuel pickup could have been removed inside the vehicle, without dropping the tank.
the clean spot i made after it had been removed.
what is the point of this thing when i have a fuel filter just feet away?!!? i could understand in a gasser application where your pump is before the main fuel filter but .. geez.
and my tank had the shinies in it. not a bunch, but it was certainly sparkly in there.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img440/2971/messs.jpg)
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ugh.. well i figured it out, finally.
it would have been HELPFUL if the fuel pickup could have been removed inside the vehicle, without dropping the tank.
the clean spot i made after it had been removed.
what is the point of this thing when i have a fuel filter just feet away?!!? i could understand in a gasser application where your pump is before the main fuel filter but .. geez.
and my tank had the shinies in it. not a bunch, but it was certainly sparkly in there.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img440/2971/messs.jpg)
idk what kept you from removing the sending/pickup unit, but it is 100% possible without dropping the tank.. you cut the stupid band clamps, slide the lines off, and remove the sending/pickup unit..
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yeah i thought about that, but then i had the delusion that i would be dumping the tank and cleaning it out ..
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ugh.. well i figured it out, finally.
it would have been HELPFUL if the fuel pickup could have been removed inside the vehicle, without dropping the tank.
the clean spot i made after it had been removed.
what is the point of this thing when i have a fuel filter just feet away?!!? i could understand in a gasser application where your pump is before the main fuel filter but .. geez.
and my tank had the shinies in it. not a bunch, but it was certainly sparkly in there.
what do you mean by the shinies? When you say not a bunch, and sparkly, I take that to mean metal flakes in the waste oil, is that what you are saying? Or are you saying it is clean.
What is the makeup of the blockage on the screen, is it hard grit? Looks like VO polymerization, but coated with oil to me. Is it soft?
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i'm glad you asked, as i'm worried about it.
it was metal flakes, and it's NOT from my waste oil. i filter down to a micron.
i had decided it's either from the pump i bought a year ago, or the pump before that.
I don't use any VO, only WMO.
It was like.. mud essentially. brown, plantlike material. was soft not hard.
it is the sparklies i am worried about, although that tank gave the appearance it had never been down in 27+ years, so i guess it would be safe to say it had 27+ years to accumulate the shinies.