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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: pointynoggin on October 06, 2012, 09:20:54 pm
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I want to get at least a tire chirp, what can I do? I got a t3 which spools slow and a Giles pump. I live in the mountains and need the low rev torque to get up the drive way, I seem to remember my 86 NA having more low end than this TD.
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Sounds like you'd be happier with a smaller, faster spooling turbo like a K03 or maybe a K14. The K03 is especially good for low-rev spool, but at the expense of high-end air flow; it'll feel a bit choked near redline if it's on a 1.9 AAZ, but it might do better when paired with a 1.6. And are you sure your T3 is operating correctly? Trev0r would be a better candidate at answering a turbo-related questions, but that is my recommendation.
Also, how is your fuel tuning with regards to smoke and on-boost power?
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I think u will probablybe happier with a smaller turbo, but I never thought spool up was all that bad on t3 and k24 turbos, u might be surprised how it acts if you install a boost controller(even if you keep the same boost pressure it will spool faster) and also increase fueling some more will help spool. T3 was definitely the slowest spooling of all the stock turbos especially with out extra fuel and a boost controller
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Hmm, I did put a boost controller on but mounted it by the air box. There is a lot of small diameter line with pressure loss so the min boost is 14psi.
I get the feeling that I might be expecting too much from this setup again.
I have a inter cooler to install next so I don't think I want to use a turbo that may choke under normal flow.
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Turning the starwheel all the way" in",or clockwise I believe..or to least spring pressure will help spoolup,at the expense of smoke before it spools...count the turns in and record any adjustments in a notebook..a little paint dab on the starwheel helps so you can record your turns.
haa my buddy once tried putting the lda spring on top...nice soot clouds!!!!
basically full fuel all the time
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With a T3, you'll need to rev high and drop the clutch if you want to chirp the tires. Of course that's hard on the clutch. Get a k14 and you will be happy. Or a small vnt, but then you need to build a vane controller.
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The fuel adjustment on Giles pump shouldn't need messed with too much for power, usually only if you want less power do you touch his settings. I would wonder if your timing is set to his standards. Then if your intake and exhaust is up to par. If you still have the stock downpipe that could be your problem. My K24 I guarantee spooled as fast as a stock K14, but it was a ported head, with a K&N air filter, and 3" Turbo back exhaust.
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Unless the boost threshold of the turbo you are using is at or below idle, then it will not do anything for off-the-line performance. You are running non-turbo (or actually slightly worse because of the additional exhaust restriction of the turbine) until you hit the boost threshold.
I tried a K14 and K24 on the same stock 1.6TD engine without any exhaust after the turbo and the fueling set to a light haze when floored. The K14 spooled more than 1,000 rpms sooner. Boost threshold was about 2,000 rpms with the K14 and over 3,000 rpms with the K24. Regardless, even with a k14 boost threshold is well above idle and so it does nothing for off-the-line performance. A k03's boost threshold is near idle and so it WILL increase off-the-line performance but it will hurt higher rpm power. The ONLY turbo option that will actually increase off-the-line performance without being so restrictive that it hurts high rpm power is a VNT. Other than using a VNT, mods for increasing off-the-line performance are the mods you would use for increasing the performance of a non-turbo motor.
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TIME FOR COMPOUNDS ;D
But seriously, everything that everyone has said is true; and your NA did have better off-the-line torque because it wasn't having to suck air through a turbo compressor that isn't spinning fast enough yet to be anything else but a restriction (with the same being true on the turbine side).
If you want insta-boost (read insta-torque), get a k03, compounds / sequential turbos, or a vnt. If you wanna keep your upper rpm power, which I assume you do since you've got a Giles pump, then that narrows it down to a vnt or compounds / sequential turbos. All things considered, a vnt is gonna be far less work (and weight ::)), even factoring in having to construct and calibrate a vane-control device. And as an added bonus, if you cut off the EGR elbow on a vnt, you can fit a gasser intake manifold--better airflow at all rpms without having to fab a custom dual plenum intake. Only downside (other than the vane control problem) is you're gonna need a redesigned rear engine mount since you're rockin a mk2--if you want to buy rather than make your own, other members have some already for sale.
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Yes k24 is a nice medium turbo, I used to have atleast 25psi by 3k-3500, but that was with stock pump and stock intake/engine just increased fuel and stuck shut wastegate.
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My advice would be to try and install a long runner manifold of some kind. It makes a big difference to the overall performance without adding any stress and not much complication...
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I have always dealt with a noticeable turbo lag since I have a t3 and intercooler, which is basically like having an extra air filter in the way until the turbo gets to pumping air.
If you're running the stock exhaust, get rid of it for something like a 2.5" exhaust and a muffler lets the exhaust flow straight through with no screens, bends or small holes to go through. That made a pretty big difference, because letting the exhaust flow out of the turbo better will spool it up faster.
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I have always dealt with a noticeable turbo lag since I have a t3 and intercooler, which is basically like having an extra air filter in the way until the turbo gets to pumping air.
If you're running the stock exhaust, get rid of it for something like a 2.5" exhaust and a muffler lets the exhaust flow straight through with no screens, bends or small holes to go through. That made a pretty big difference, because letting the exhaust flow out of the turbo better will spool it up faster.
Amen on that. General rule of thumb is that anything with a T3 or VNT sized exhaust trim does better with at least a 2.5 inch full-back setup. K03/K14 can get away with 2.25 but 2.5 seems to be the rule of thumb for the best systems. If you can get the turbo exhaust flange and know somebody who will weld for you if you provide the pipe and beer, then it can cost less than an aftermarket DP.
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I really do not see the point of a big turbo. Unless you exclusively race the car then I do not see the desire for one.
Lag sucks, everyone knows it does. You have to wait until 2500 before your boosting? That is despicable! lol Get rid of that T3 if you don't plan on stupid amounts of power.
Just because there is a Giles pump does not mean you can't fuel the hell out of it at a much lower RPM, and still make some ballsy power. I suggest the k03, it is an amazing turbo for what it is. I have one on my tuned up AAZ and my mtdi AHU. Both non inter cooled and both running stock boost levels (8-11 psi). Both have the pumps maxed out 9mm on the AAZ and 11mm on the AHU. Full boost before 2000 rpms is an amazing feeling, one which I think everyone should have.
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Wow, that is a lot of feed back :)
I'm not looking for stupid power, just to get up my drive way without riding the clutch or making a run at it.
I think the timing is good, I tried from .97 to .8 and settled at .94. Tons of power over 3000rpm I can get the get to 1350 if I really try but on a long steep climb at 110 kph it stays under 1200f. Smokes with a heavy foot but light gray haze otherwise.
Once I get my new gtd intercooler set up in the next mod is the exuast and getting the sound down in the cab, I'm in this car for the long haul.
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I can crawl up steep hilly trails (not the rockies..) here in Ontario with our vast Canadian shield exposure with ease.
I also now with the addition of my trailer hitch, routinely pull about 16-1700lbs behind me. I have no issue hauling it and can still nearly idle it around, up grades even.. All thanks to the k03 boosting so low.
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yes, the k03/gt-15 sized turbo's are great for daily-ing.
The main problem I have with 1.9TD's with these turbo's is clutch slip due to huge low rpm torque :-(
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I think something is wrong. Mine had turbo lag after the I/C but I had 5-7lbs by 2,200 rpm with the k24. I never had to ride the clutch to get up a hill. It was sluggish to get going compared to my TDI which has a vnt and stage 2 tune now, but it still had power. I guess what I am saying it was not quick off the line, but it still had power. If I put it in first and went up a hill it pulled just fine, but especially with the 3.67 ring and pinion I couldn't peel the tires off unless it was wet. I could start even on most grades by just letting the clutch out, so it had torque. Is this what you experience or is it worse? If it is worse I would say something is off. If it is like this I would say it is normal.
Just read the other guys posts and if you are talking about going up hills at speeds not starting off, shift. Match the torque of what you need to the speed you are going. Mine would lug up a hill at 40mph in 5th, but I wouldn't gain speed/wouldn't lose speed. If I wanted to gain faster I would shift to 4th, if I wanted faster yet then 3rd, and if I wanted stupidness I would get 2nd until the pump quit at 53mph or so and go through them all.
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I agree something doesn't sound right maybe do compression test and double check can to flywheel timing
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Make sure you aren't experiencing major boost leaks, the "blow-off" overpressure valve is a big source of them.