VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: snedboy on July 03, 2012, 12:52:15 pm
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Hi guys I'm looking to fit a pump with on boost enrichment to my ABL motor and VW pumps are a bit thin on the ground around here. Would a Disco 300 tdi pump work or is it controlled by an ecu? Also does anyone know what kind of turbo they run? From the pics I've seen on the net the three bolt flange looks similar to the one on my K14. Sorry if this is common knowledge but a search doesn't bring much up.
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There were both mechanically-controlled and electronic LR300 pumps; the mechanicals have the big LDA module on the top, and are almost a perfect drop-in fit for an mTDI, which I assume is what you're looking at, so I imagine they'd work just fine for an IDI, (as an upgrade ;D pump--the roller camplate and head / plunger are going to be more aggressive and larger, respectively, than the 1.9 IDI ever saw as a stock pump) I think the LR pumps have 11mm plungers, and stock VW IDIs only got 9mm, afaik. The dynamic advance might be different for the LR pump, though. Not sure.
Myself, what I'd do is put an IDI camplate in the LR pump, and call it square.
Do you have any IDI pumps to scavenge parts from?
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no idea if a tdi pump will work on a idi... works great for tdi-m though.. what i have on mine...
you wanna talk to 8v of fury... he made his own tdi-m pump from a idi and tdi-e pump...
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Thanks for the replies guys. I think I realised after posting that the Disco pump was probably more suited to the M-tdi motor what with it needing higher pressure to run the tdi injectors.
I don't have any spare tdi pumps available so I would be looking at buying two pumps to make one good one
Ultimately I was hoping that I could just pull the pump, turbo and intercooler from a Disco, sorta like a 1.9td tuning kit in a (big metal landrover discovery) box. This may still be do-able but I will need to research it a bit more
Another pump I have heard of being used was from the pre 1995 Renault Espace. I realise this is a euro motor so may not be familiar to you guys, any thoughts on this one?
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Thanks for the replies guys. I think I realised after posting that the Disco pump was probably more suited to the M-tdi motor what with it needing higher pressure to run the tdi injectors.
I don't have any spare tdi pumps available so I would be looking at buying two pumps to make one good one
Ultimately I was hoping that I could just pull the pump, turbo and intercooler from a Disco, sorta like a 1.9td tuning kit in a (big metal landrover discovery) box. This may still be do-able but I will need to research it a bit more
Another pump I have heard of being used was from the pre 1995 Renault Espace. I realise this is a euro motor so may not be familiar to you guys, any thoughts on this one?
the pump would be the only part of the land rover that would fit the VW.. i doubt the turbos or manifolds are even close!
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also check the rotation,i bought 2 and one of them was not the same side rotation as vw.
didnt know it at the time... >:(
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the pump would be the only part of the land rover that would fit the VW.. i doubt the turbos or manifolds are even close!
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I'm not so sure. The turbo looks like it has a three bolt flange though I haven't figured out what kind of turbo it is yet. k24?
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the pump would be the only part of the land rover that would fit the VW.. i doubt the turbos or manifolds are even close!
I'm not so sure. The turbo looks like it has a three bolt flange though I haven't figured out what kind of turbo it is yet. k24?
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there are about 200 different triangluar 3 bolt flanges out there.. all of them slightly different..
its different, trust me.
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Tdi pump on an idi, I wonder if Giles would chime in on the compatibility or the general differences between them
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I have had both apart, I don't really see what it could be. Other than the fact that maybe the 11mm and 12mm heads just are able to produce that much more pressure through the lines to injectors. Being that I am sure DI injectors open at a much higher pressure, they can handle the extra oomph from the pump. The IDI injectors open between what 135-155-?? bar for the 1.6 na, 1.6 td and a.19 aaz respectively.
I and other have made the M-TDI work using only the DI cam plate, springs, rotor and distributor head within a IDI body and lid. I have also heard of people just bolting 1.6 TD pumps and 1.9 AAZ pumps in stock form on to their TDI engine and they will run. Not well, because the throttle lever needs modifying to supply enough fuel for the steeper cam plate.
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Giles also told me that the "dwell" of the higher camplates are less and you are injecting that fuel in a shorter time span. In my new pump it took him a bit to get the idle right he said. Something about the bigger head having a different ramp. Lots of variables, I would suspect higher EGT in the idi when using the DI stuff for the bigger head and the ramp differences.
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the pump would be the only part of the land rover that would fit the VW.. i doubt the turbos or manifolds are even close!
I'm not so sure. The turbo looks like it has a three bolt flange though I haven't figured out what kind of turbo it is yet. k24?
there are about 200 different triangluar 3 bolt flanges out there.. all of them slightly different..
its different, trust me.
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You are right enough. It turns out the three bolt flange I was looking at was for the exhaust downpipe.
Thanks for all the replies. I think I will go for a Renault or Peugeot pump and maybe stick with the stock turbo for the time being
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sent you a pm
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bought mines on ebay.uk and ebay.de, lots of pumps there...
iveco pumps could also be adapted and have a bigger plunger.
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I and other have made the M-TDI work using only the DI cam plate, springs, rotor and distributor head within a IDI body and lid.
Interesting. I'm curious if yours runs well, why the Land Rover pump is so desirable? Especially, if the Land Rover pump needs to be modified, as well.
What's the catch?
-Todd
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It runs well, but I had to have the throttle lever modified to make the fuel plunger move further.. and to do that I had to clearance the inside of the pumps body quite a bit, and grind some other things down too.. so really not a bolt and go operation lol.
The land rover pump is more desirable i suppose because of the pumps ability to move more fuel in stock form, being that it fueled a 2.5L engine stock.
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gov mod is only pump mod i did on my disco pump... runs well with no power problems... will pull 6200rpm via math and gear ratio chart with tire size...
now fitting pump to a ahu vs alh... alh is pretty much direct fit.. 1 mount and chnge the nipples the lines attach too... on a ahu.. its like fitting a alh pump to it... bore out mount.. use later pully set up..
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gov mod is only pump mod i did on my disco pump... runs well with no power problems... will pull 6200rpm via math and gear ratio chart with tire size...
now fitting pump to a ahu vs alh... alh is pretty much direct fit.. 1 mount and chnge the nipples the lines attach too... on a ahu.. its like fitting a alh pump to it... bore out mount.. use later pully set up..
weird. idk how you got more RPMS with a BIGGER pump head..
my engine only turns 5750 revs, on the bolts, in neutral with the rollers skipping... governor shimmed solid.
VERIFIED BY TACHOMETER.
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no idea.. gps = 78mph max in 3rd gear at ~21psi.. then andy did math and came up with it.. stock 98 tdi tranny.. 195/50-15...
your correct 11mm pump head..
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weird. idk how you got more RPMS with a BIGGER pump head..
my engine only turns 5750 revs, on the bolts, in neutral with the rollers skipping... governor shimmed solid.
VERIFIED BY TACHOMETER.
Stiffer springs--the springs behind a DI camplate are unreal. Incidentally, that's one thing I'm very set on trying--using a DI head (11mm) & springs, but an IDI camplate. Or maybe just even an 9mm head, who knows. Increasing the rev ceiling is somehow very appealing... :D I think it'd be great if we could reliably raise the redline to 6500 or even 7000rpm.
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1.9 AHU springs in my hand, 1.6 TD springs in the distributor head.. As can be seen, they are a WAY stronger spring. It makes turning the pulley of the pump by hand easily 4-5 times harder when assembled.
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/84%20Jetta/2012-02-17220106.jpg)
Blocksmith, fwiw the 1.9 AAZ uses the exact same springs and it also has the IDI cam plate. However the difference in cam plate between the 1.9's, IDI or DI, is not that far off from one another. So therefore theoretically an AAZ should be able to achieve this higher rev limit, which I do not think it can.. so in theory it won't raise the 1.6 ceiling either.. Maybe a few hundred rpms at most.
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oh crap....
does someone have a set of DI springs they would sell cheaply?
i wanna try some in my peugeot 10mm pump..
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oh crap....
does someone have a set of DI springs they would sell cheaply?
i wanna try some in my peugeot 10mm pump..
AAZ springs are the same.
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Are all the aaz springs the same? I have 2 pumps off the core engines that are not TD pumps, one is the ECO and one the N/A versions.
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no idea if a tdi pump will work on a idi...
I'm doubtful. The larger head and rotor and steeper ramp on the camplate would cause the fuel to be injected into the engine in say 5 degrees of rotation where if it was the smaller head and rotor and IDI camplate it would take 15 degrees of rotation. I think it would sound like marbles in the engine the whole time, and would probably be low on power because all the fuel is being injected near TDC when you have the least amount of leverage on the crank. I think you'd also be blowing HGs pretty quickly.
I just made up all those numbers, don't quote me :D
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well, does anyone have any AAZ, or TDI pump springs?
cause i have ZERO of either..
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Are all the aaz springs the same? I have 2 pumps off the core engines that are not TD pumps, one is the ECO and one the N/A versions.
well, does anyone have any AAZ, or TDI pump springs?
cause i have ZERO of either..
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Are all the aaz springs the same? I have 2 pumps off the core engines that are not TD pumps, one is the ECO and one the N/A versions.
well, does anyone have any AAZ, or TDI pump springs?
cause i have ZERO of either..
so, are saying you might have springs to offer up, being that you have a pump? any possibility of purchasing a whole pump off you? i wouldnt mind buying a whole pump off you if its a good price.
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no idea if a tdi pump will work on a idi... works great for tdi-m though.. what i have on mine.
I thought you were running a Defender pump or is it the same pump?
-Todd
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defender/disco same pump for my knowledge... but like said.. i have on tdi not aaz.. no idea if will work on idi..