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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: steevz on February 13, 2012, 08:26:27 pm
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Alright, I got a mint 92 Golf. Not a speck of rust, not a dent. It's beautiful. Pulled the gas engine and all the sensor and ECU wires. Pulled all the automatic transmission junk.
Swapped pedal clusters, installed manual shift box and linkage, almost ready to drop the 1.6 TD into it.
For the instrument cluster, what the best way to get a working tach? Should I swap fuse box for my diesel fuse box? I take it all the lights and everything minus the gasser engine electronics will plug into it and I can just add the diesel engine wiring loom.
As for getting a cold start cable installed.. how does it remove from my donors dash? Does that black rectangle that holds the cable to the knob have a clip or screws? I haven't got my head into a spot where I could see it properly to remove it and it feel sturdy.
Thanks.
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Steevz As for getting a cold start cable installed.. how does it remove from my donors dash? Does that black rectangle that holds the cable to the knob have a clip or screws? I haven't got my head into a spot where I could see it properly to remove it and it feel sturdy.
Isn't that clip similar to the one on the IP? I thought it just slid off perpendicular to the cable. Then the whole thing pulls out from inside. Take the grommet through the firewall as well. Keeps that cable from buzzing against the metal.
I moved mine a bit back and was able to access it best from the radio area. I didn't have one in at the time so that gave me a place to reach in with a pair of vice grip needle nosed pliers.
Good luck. DAS
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Thanks.. I'll try just sliding it, maybe find a mirror if it gives me trouble. Right now I have both dashes fully opened up. No clusters or lower dash pieces. So I'll give that a shot. Thanks. :)
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The 92 Golf will have CE2 wiring.
I can't remember what your other car is right now for some reason. lol
But 89-92 Mk2 is CE2, 85-88 is CE1.
So probably best to just leave all the necessary exisiting wiring thats already with the 92 = intact. You'll either need to upgrade/downgrade the coolant outlets to the plastic ones from the gas engine - or adapt your wiring to go with the aluminum outlets sensors.
A gasser tach has to be converted to work with Diesel "W" alternator.
Some How-To's in General Section up front.
Dakato Digital convertor is what most use.
Or find a 89-92 TD Tach cluster - direct swap - plug n play. done.
One just sold here in classifieds section for $100
Think he has more coming for sale soon.
The cold start will be simple.
Can't remember for sure what type clip/retainer, its been a while.
But have removed a couple and don't remember much fuss.
Whole cable comes in thru the firewall and out thru the dash.
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The cold start, if you get a used cable make sure you get the end you pull on, it has a special clip (it's a pin clip with 1/2 round ends to hold it in place). The cable itself is has a thread that holds it in place. My gasser MK3 had the tang/hole and everthing there for it. I expect the mk2 will be the same the hole will already be in the dash, you just have to run the cable to it and the ip.
I have a gasser MK3 changed to diesel, the only thing I had to do is run a wire from what used to be the coil wire (as it is on when you hit the starter) and my alternator already had the w wire. I bought a dakota digital unit to condition the wire so the vw tach read correctly. The coolant stuff was just changed over to aaz stuff (mine is 1.6td), but you won't have any problems with MK2 in that respect.
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Ahh.. it's 85 diesel. So early Mk2, CE1 I guess.
Can I just put the tach into the gasser cluster? My diesel cluster's clock is screwed anyways.. Is using the diesel (CE1) fusebox out of the question now if I don't want swap ALL the wiring in the car, or are the plugs the same?
IF I can use my diesel fusebox can I swap the cluster's wires with the ones from the diesel car? Hope this is making sense.
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Ahh.. it's 85 diesel. So early Mk2, CE1 I guess.
Can I just put the tach into the gasser cluster? My diesel cluster's clock is screwed anyways.. Is using the diesel (CE1) fusebox out of the question now if I don't want swap ALL the wiring in the car, or are the plugs the same?
IF I can use my diesel fusebox can I swap the cluster's wires with the ones from the diesel car? Hope this is making sense.
you CANT mix CE1 and CE2 wiring..
you get either FULL CE1, or FULL CE2.. not a mix-n-match of what you have laying around.. the connectors are 100% different between CE1 & 2..
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So as Baron said.. I need to locate a CE2 diesel cluster then? Can't change the internals of the CE2 gasser cluster.. (swap tachs) ?
Edit: I might be SOL on some other wiring now when I take a second though.. All the sensors for the engine.. there are few but... they are from CE1 fuse box. So it looks like I need to get all new wiring or else change everything over? Even head lights, signals.. everything?
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So as Baron said.. I need to locate a CE2 diesel cluster then? Can't change the internals of the CE2 gasser cluster.. (swap tachs) ?
Edit: I might be SOL on some other wiring now when I take a second though.. All the sensors for the engine.. there are few but... they are from CE1 fuse box. So it looks like I need to get all new wiring or else change everything over? Even head lights, signals.. everything?
i just recently installed a mk1 diesel into a 92 Jetta.. i used all the existing mk1 sensors, and just made my mk2 wiring work.. i think the hardest thing to do, sensor wiring wise, was cut the coolant temp connector off, and then crimp a spade terminal on the yellow wire that goes to the gauge..
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Give that a shot. TY!
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Give that a shot. TY!
if you need help with anything, just post up.. theres been a few of us who have very recently completed gas to diesel swaps in mk2 cars..
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Will do, thank you. Before I started I figured.. mk2 to mk2.. other wiring should be the same.. Thanks for filling me in on the CE1 and CE2. Hopefully a2resource and myself will get it figured. Will update.
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Will do, thank you. Before I started I figured.. mk2 to mk2.. other wiring should be the same.. Thanks for filling me in on the CE1 and CE2. Hopefully a2resource and myself will get it figured. Will update.
early mk2 cars had wiring that was almost identical to the mk1 american production cars..
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Leave EVERYTHING alone. lol
You can pull the ECU and its wiring - but leave all else as is.
Use the coil wire for your Inj Pump soleniod as mentioned.
CE2 cars had plastic coolant flanges with different type sensors/sending units. And just a lil bit different wiring to them. You can swap over to the plastic flanges and use those - or stay with your aluminum flanges and do small mods on the wiring ends (like RoR mentioned).
Your CE1 diesel tach will not swap out into any CE2 cluster, and be functional. I've already been there and had a look before.
Unless you are an electronics guru from he\\ -
and have to do some fab mod work too.
CE1 and CE2 clusters are not friendly to one another.
Backlight bulbs and LED's are about the only swappable items.
Best bet is to sell your CE1 TD cluster and buy a CE2 TD cluster.
Or trade someone.
Or get a Dakota.
An American CE1 MPH speedo head will plop right in to replace your KPH -
so its sell-able to USA folks. And USA folks want them too.
85-86 TD's were the only Mk2 Diesels we got with Tachs.
And they are SCARCE items here.
CE1 digi clocks can be replaced fairly easily from memory (gas donor).
CE2 digi clocks - a pure bicht.
You'd have to change out the entire fusebox and wiring and cluster from a CE2 Diesel car to get back the automatic GlowPlug feature and the Dash LED Indicator for Gplug.
OR make your own auto system and run an LED into one of the blank spots of the cluster LED's section.
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I'm not sure if you were looking for a CE1 diesel tach? I have one from an 86 jetta I'd be willing to sell relatively cheap if you were interested in it. It's a VDO unit. The cluster had the older style with the upshift arrow in the cluster. It has two connectors at either side of the cluster. I have a CE2 cluster as well, but it's a gasser unit.
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Me too. I have a CE1 diesel cluster and CE2 gasser cluster too.
I have everything to wire up a toggle switch for the glow plugs myself. No problem.
Alright, well in the ECU wiring, the sensors were through the same hole. So I'll just get that part of the loom separated and reuse it. I'll also try and find a CE2 diesel cluster with a tach, I don't really want tthe gasser tach reading the diesel rpms, because it goes up to 7000 so that part with never even be used.
One the plus side, today I got a PP 3" downpipe and full catless 2.5" exhaust for $80 plus some 100mm axles I don't need.
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Me too. I have a CE1 diesel cluster and CE2 gasser cluster too.
I have everything to wire up a toggle switch for the glow plugs myself. No problem.
Alright, well in the ECU wiring, the sensors were through the same hole. So I'll just get that part of the loom separated and reuse it. I'll also try and find a CE2 diesel cluster with a tach, I don't really want tthe gasser tach reading the diesel rpms, because it goes up to 7000 so that part with never even be used.
One the plus side, today I got a PP 3" downpipe and full catless 2.5" exhaust for $80 plus some 100mm axles I don't need.
SO JELLY!!
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One the plus side, today I got a PP 3" downpipe and full catless 2.5" exhaust for $80 plus some 100mm axles I don't need.
Did you kick the siht out of the guy and then just leave him $80 for his pain, lmao. how do people score such deals!! ;)
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I agree with RoR and 8V ..... Jelly / Kick
I put ECU covers from gassers in my raintrays for more finished cleaner look.
Wouldn't really want an UnLeaded cluster either.
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One the plus side, today I got a PP 3" downpipe and full catless 2.5" exhaust for $80 plus some 100mm axles I don't need.
Did you kick the siht out of the guy and then just leave him $80 for his pain, lmao. how do people score such deals!! ;)
Found a local forums of VW guys. Some dude has an 8v gasser now, and didn't need them anymore.
Sandblasted the DP today at work.. what's the best way to seal it? Hi temp paint?
Will sand blast the exhaust later.. just really don't want the DP to rot, PP doesn't make em anymore.
Edit: One question.. for the fuel sender.. can I leave the gasser one in there with the little pump? Or should I put the diesel in and swap wires? If I can leave it and that pump is low enough pressure I figure it might help my pump out?
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Post a pic for us of the 3" PP DownPipe.
Don't remember if i have even seen one that size before.
Eastwood Products used to have a stainless steel impregnated exahust coating.
On the DP it would probably need a refresh once or twice a year - at the top.
On the piping it would hold up a lot longer.
Is a brushable product.
Aerosol products won't last long at all.
Better than nothing tho.
Best bet is to have DP ceramic coated or powder coated.
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Can use existing sender, and that in-tank low press pump.
After it dies - think it has to replaced or deleted - not just left there dead.
If it has the secondary high press pump inline - it needs to be removed.
Believe thats what i remember reading from other Mk2 conversions in the past - about those two pumps.
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The downpipe is 2.5" *faceplam
My bad.
Well, the tank had 3 lines coming from it.. feed, return, and some small black plastic one.. don't know if it's for air.. or? I cut it, guess I'll just plug it off.
Got the diesel lines hooked up, and the engine dropped in. Stupid me removed the two lower bolts on the tranny mount when taking it off the Golf for some reason.. were easy to access with the automatic tranny in it. Now I dropped the engine in and thought I had the mount bolted down and it's going to be a *** to get them in.. gah. Oh well, it's coming together nicely. Dropping the engine in finally felt good. :)
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2.5" is great.
Still would be cool if you could post a pic sometime.
I had never heard anyone mention a 3" store bought DP for these cars before.
TT is 2.25, and PP did some 2.5
That 3rd line is a vent (or EEC) line.
I'd leave it uncapped and in a good clean dry spot (probably about right where it was). Then test it later on with it plugged.
Use the fuel cap from your 85 Diesel.
Diesel = vented cap, Gas = unvented cap ... think i got that right.
And you'll need a fuel filler hole upgrade/enlargement.
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Still would be cool if you could post a pic sometime.
I'll get you guys a pic tomorrow. Haven't painted it yet, but it's blasted. Looks SO sick.. can't wait! :)
And you'll need a fuel filler hole upgrade/enlargement.
I was thinking that.. but the majority of the diesel pumps around here have the same sized pump necks as the gas ones (I think).. I won't swap it right away.. and go from there.
For wiring my my GP...
I got a starter solenoid.. my understanding is... I need a GROUND, EXCITER, 12V from BATT and TO GP.
So I was thinking of wiring GROUND to ground, EXCITER (Can I just use a constant or switched 12v source to my switch then to the solenoid?), then 12V to 12v and then to GP.
I guess my question is right there.. can I just use a SWITCHED if I want key activated or else constant.. because it's on a switch power source and then the 12V fromt he battery to power my GP? Is it that simple?
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The gas neck of a diesel MK2 is larger than the gasser to accept large fuel nozzle at a gas/diesel station. The necks are actually the same size, but there is a reducer inside so you can't fit a larger nozzle properly. The one in my car was plastic, all I did was cut slits in it so the larger nozzle will fit.
I also left the in-tank pump and fuel level sender and after two years of running it, I haven't had any issues in tank due to diesel instead of gas.
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One the plus side, today I got a PP 3" downpipe and full catless 2.5" exhaust for $80 plus some 100mm axles I don't need.
Did you kick the siht out of the guy and then just leave him $80 for his pain, lmao. how do people score such deals!! ;)
Found a local forums of VW guys. Some dude has an 8v gasser now, and didn't need them anymore.
Sandblasted the DP today at work.. what's the best way to seal it? Hi temp paint?
Will sand blast the exhaust later.. just really don't want the DP to rot, PP doesn't make em anymore.
Edit: One question.. for the fuel sender.. can I leave the gasser one in there with the little pump? Or should I put the diesel in and swap wires? If I can leave it and that pump is low enough pressure I figure it might help my pump out?
i TRIED leaving my pump.. but diesel fuel quickly (within a week of conversion) damaged my lift pump..
and if that lift pump in the tank dies, all it is, is a HUGE air leak.. ASK ME HOW I KNOW!
anyways, for ease of service, i deleted the in tank low pressure pump, and the high pressure pump too.. i replaced the high pressure pump with a solenoid fuel pump for a carburated vehicle.. after i deleted the gasser pumps, and installed a universal pump, ive been good to go on fuel system problems.. nothing to speak of since i built the car. the universal fuel pump i installed, has a internal check valve or 2 also, so fuel does not flow backwards thru it, but if it is not energized, the injection pump can still pull fuel thru it!
if your in tank pump works, then use it.. but if it starts giving you headaches, delete it.
i had spare in tank pumps, that worked, but being as how much of a PITA it is to replace, i deleted it..
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The downpipe is 2.5" *faceplam
My bad.
Well, the tank had 3 lines coming from it.. feed, return, and some small black plastic one.. don't know if it's for air.. or? I cut it, guess I'll just plug it off.
Got the diesel lines hooked up, and the engine dropped in. Stupid me removed the two lower bolts on the tranny mount when taking it off the Golf for some reason.. were easy to access with the automatic tranny in it. Now I dropped the engine in and thought I had the mount bolted down and it's going to be a *** to get them in.. gah. Oh well, it's coming together nicely. Dropping the engine in finally felt good. :)
its a feed, return, and VENT line.. that small black line goes to the charcoal canister under the hood, in the pass fender well..
i deleted the charcoal canister.. left the vent line open to the atmosphere..
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Great, thanks! I'll leave it for now, any signs of problem.. I will just swap it out.
Good to know to keep that vent line open, thank ROR.
For wiring my my GP...
I got a starter solenoid.. my understanding is... I need a GROUND, EXCITER, 12V from BATT and TO GP.
So I was thinking of wiring GROUND to ground, EXCITER (Can I just use a constant or switched 12v source to my switch then to the solenoid?), then 12V to 12v and then to GP.
I guess my question is right there.. can I just use a SWITCHED if I want key activated or else constant.. because it's on a switch power source and then the 12V fromt he battery to power my GP? Is it that simple?
I was drinking when I wrote this out....
I was trying to ask if I can just find a switched power source, then run it to my switch then to my solenoid for GPs..?
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Great, thanks! I'll leave it for now, any signs of problem.. I will just swap it out.
Good to know to keep that vent line open, thank ROR.
For wiring my my GP...
I got a starter solenoid.. my understanding is... I need a GROUND, EXCITER, 12V from BATT and TO GP.
So I was thinking of wiring GROUND to ground, EXCITER (Can I just use a constant or switched 12v source to my switch then to the solenoid?), then 12V to 12v and then to GP.
I guess my question is right there.. can I just use a SWITCHED if I want key activated or else constant.. because it's on a switch power source and then the 12V fromt he battery to power my GP? Is it that simple?
I was drinking when I wrote this out....
I was trying to ask if I can just find a switched power source, then run it to my switch then to my solenoid for GPs..?
i like to use battery power (constantly hot) to supply the switch that energizes the plugs.. that way you can burn the plugs before you turn the key on.. that way the plugs are the only thing drawing power, and they get the most power available..
my plugs are currently wired to key on power.. meaning i cant burn my plugs unless my key is on..
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That is what I was thinking.. but I suppose that makes it's possible to hit the switch and end up with a dead battery.. if it gets bumped getting out or something. I'll get it all figured out.. just took a nap.. time to get this finished. :)
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That is what I was thinking.. but I suppose that makes it's possible to hit the switch and end up with a dead battery.. if it gets bumped getting out or something. I'll get it all figured out.. just took a nap.. time to get this finished. :)
i used a momentary contact switch, meaning your finger needs to push it to close the circuit.. let off, the switch return to the OFF position..
think starter button, horn button, that type of thing.. basically any switch that has a return function when you let your finger off..
with a momentary contact switch, you CANT leave the plugs on unless the switch fails..
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I was thinking of getting a push button switch.. only one the auto parts place had was like $40. I said.. EFF that. I'll shop around some more.
Anyone know what I should do with the transmission's electrical plug.. not exactly sure what it's for?
Edit: Here's a pic of the DP. Only sandblasted so far.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/steevz/25dp.jpg)
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I'd give about $100-150 for that D-Pipe on the spot.
I've never messed with an Auto VW.
But part of that plug - or some plug somewhere - should have the back-up light wiring. Find which wires do those lights and you can work them back into your 85 Trans switch and have back up lights retained - if you feel ambitious sometime.
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Yes, after I posted that I was thinking back up wiring. Right now the plug for the backup lights are at the shifter box. If it ever bothers me.. I will run wires to the plug. :P
Called 'er a night on the car.. but all the wiring is done.. everything is in except the rad. Hook that up tomorrow, add coolant, some diesel, ... still have replace the two outer boots on my cv axles. Repacked the inners, cause they were easy.. and one had gotten dirt in it.
Guess I'll just the car with the gasser tach non fuctional for now.. until I can find a diesel ce2 cluster. Reworking it just seems like a PITA.
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Swap is done!! Hooray!
Can't get the starter to engage with the key though.. I think it's from the automatic shifter interlock maybe? Anyone know which wires would bypass this?
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Congrats on the swappage.
No idea on the autoslagic - other than thinking it was probably tied to the shifter - like the reverse lights. But its a VW ....
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Yup, automatic is tied to the shifter for a park and neutral cut out switch.
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Figured.. a2resource doesn't have info on the relay that goes to the shifter. Not sure what wires to jump.. need ideas..
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Try working it backwards
Remove solenoid wire - and connect a 12V jumper to it.
Get inside and test the wires and see which one is now 12V.
Maybe try to be quick about it too.
After that is found -
Turn key to crank position and hold it.
Test which of the shifter wires is now 12V.
Then tie those 2 confirmed wires together - and see if it cranks/runs with key switch -
or bursts into a raging ball of fire .....
I'd wear a helmet and safety goggles - just for the effect .. lol
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I'll try and get it figured out this morning. Thanks!
I'd wear a helmet and safety goggles - just for the effect .. lol
Awesome. Just that picture in my mind is priceless.
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IT'S ALIVE!!!
I had it figured out last night but had the signal wire unhooked from the starter.. lol, was tired.
I was hoping I would be able to crank to purge the air from the system? Not possible after removing lines? LOTS of air coming in the feed. I don't know if the lines just won't self prime or what.. maybe they lose prime and drain back to the tank after the car is shut off. There is no check valve so this is possible? What's the best way to get these primed without having a mityvac? Hoping to have the car drivable for tomorrow.
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take the out bolt out and pour in diesel. It won't fill it completely but if you pump is dry it works. Towing it in 2nd gear usually works too, key on 25mph or so, pulls it right in.
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I bought a mityvac.. just need to figure out a way to pull more fluid then the little brake fluid reservoir it came with. I can pull and pull and pull out of the return on the pump and I keep getting air coming out of the filter.. once I have to empty the little bottle I think the air just goes back into the line and I'm right back at step one. Any ideas?
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Once you buy a MityVac , you are now a confirmed Diesel aficionado.
Welcome to the club. lol
You've got a Major (although probably minor fix) suction leak somewhere.
Is the In-Tank feed pump not in working order ?
The only thing that "might" help some to overcome the small container is to hook MVac to outlet coming off the filter - instead of pulling through the Inj Pump.
Once the car is running - it would purge itself within a couple minutes - unless there is a suction leak. And it sounds like you're running already.
Got your helmet on ?
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You've got a Major (although probably minor fix) suction leak somewhere.
Is the In-Tank feed pump not in working order ?
That's funny. I just swapped my fuel sender and was going to tell you guys my success! That intank pump must have been FOOBAR'D!
Got your helmet on ?
Haven't taken it off all day!
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If you keep fixing this stuff so fast you're gonna run out of things to mess with later on. Sounds like its getting to be about finished.
Have you already installed the 2.5 Dpipe and big exhaust too ?
Here's me with my helmet and goggles on, prepared for duty
(http://i44.tinypic.com/dmfry8.jpg)
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Hey Steve! Been away a bunch for a while. Wow, quick progress through the diesel world since the Vanagon, eh? :)
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Hey Steve! Been away a bunch for a while. Wow, quick progress through the diesel world since the Vanagon, eh? :)
Yeppers! The new golf is awesome! Going to throw in my TD injectors this week and maybe you could help me get it timed "perfect'. :) Just timed by ear right now.
Have you already installed the 2.5 Dpipe and big exhaust too ?
Just the DP. OH my god is it loud once you get moving. That SCREAMING turbo is quite amazing without a cat or muffler though.. sounds crazy!
And I think I definately felt a boost in acceleration.. I don't know if the loud sound is playing tricks on my brain.. but maybe it's from the open DP and lighter body?
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Hey Steevs.
The downpipe looks AWESOME!
Yeah, i had that downpipe, been offered some cash for it, but truthfully I won't be getting back onto a 1.6 turbo diesel anytime at all. So i figured, i might as well offer it to someone that had parts that I needed. Really, was I about to negotiate with someone for a measly 150 for that thing? nah, i couldn't care less.
I've had people offering me 80 here, 100 there, but when I need something Steve came through and I figured why not? Offer that part which he needed and we'll both be happy.
On the plus side, i'm glad that DP worked out in your favor.
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Thanks again Vangruver!
I sold my CE1 diesel cluster for $100 + shipping and have on enroute from Van Island that I got for $40 + shipping. Can't wait to get that in.. Drove the car to work today with no speedo and no tach..
The plastic end piece came off my speedometer cable when I pulled it through the firewall and I thought I fixed it, but I think I have it on too far cause it won't clip into the back of my cluster.. guess it needs replacing.
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Thanks again Vangruver!
I sold my CE1 diesel cluster for $100 + shipping and have on enroute from Van Island that I got for $40 + shipping. Can't wait to get that in.. Drove the car to work today with no speedo and no tach..
The plastic end piece came off my speedometer cable when I pulled it through the firewall and I thought I fixed it, but I think I have it on too far cause it won't clip into the back of my cluster.. guess it needs replacing.
if the plastic piece came off the end, then you need a new cable.. they are not supposed to come off.
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Alright.. getting there..
Got the exhaust installed.. rattles a bit when idling cold.. hmm... going to get the brackets redone. One piece install.. PITA.. had to drop the rear axle..
I got my CE2 diesel cluster today.. in the works of wiring the W plug.. Do I run the wire from the W plug on the alt to the fusebox? There is a spot, A2/06 which is for the W plug. If I get the wire into the plug (how do you do this?) then will me tach read the signal, or is it missing other wiring from being a gasser?
Thanks
if the plastic piece came off the end, then you need a new cable.. they are not supposed to come off.
It actually works fine after makeshift repair.. they're hard to find.. damn. No one seems to stock or can get em locally.. except one place $35 w/o gear?
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Well, replacing my injectors finally over from my NA ones to my TD ones. #2 injector "right after running the car" was dry. The other 3 have diesel on them, also the heat shield is so FCKN stuck in the base! I don't think that injector was working properly.. thought my mileage was kinda low.. can't wait to finish swapping these out.
Edit: Well, the reason it was stuck .... there is a chip out of the heatshield seat. Allowing carbon to buildup around the heatshield.. and possibly into the injector? Guess I need to get my other heads valves replaced.