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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: ffgb on October 27, 2011, 09:16:55 am
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I have a 1.6 N/A in a 2-door rabbit with a 4A transmission. I have rebuilt the motor with .020 oversized pistons along with a resealed IP and governor mod, and a borla 2" exhaust system. I want more pep, well especially when going up hills!!!
1) Is it worth changing out the toilet bowl exhaust manifold for a dual outlet exhaust manifold?
2) Along with changing the exhaust manifold, is the gasser intake manifold worth it too?
With both the gasser intake and dual outlet manifold, will I see an improvement in performance, especially when climbing hills?
I want to hear results from people who have actually done these modifications!
Is it worth the COST to turbo charge the motor? I don't mind collecting parts from various junkyards from various cars for turbo charging the motor over time, I don't want extreme performance, just an upgrade when driving up hills sometimes!
Thanks
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Here's a link to a post I did on my exhaust modification. http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=20427.msg155903#msg155903 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=20427.msg155903#msg155903) Note that I don't have any pictures of the toilet bowl manifold outlet, but it is still bigger than the inlet opening in the tube I cobbled together. Not sure how the area compares to the dual outlet manifold.
For a N/A, it made what I consider an amazing difference in driveability. Not sure if this is better/easier/similar to the results of the dual outlet exhaust, but definitely change it from stock. I guarantee you won't regret it.
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I have about $400 in my turbo kit. Can't beat that it and it's a lot more fun to drive. No black smoke anymore either...just *** and get.
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I agree 10 lbs a boost makes a big difference in this little motor. For how inexpensive the old T3's are and the rest you need, much further ahead adding a turbo...$.02
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The gasser intake manifold really isn't necessary on a NA.. It is however a decent upgrade for a turbo..
The toilet bowl exhaust manifold isn't actually all that bad either, it's the size of the flange and pipe that make it suck.... Has the flange on the exhaust been opened up to match the 2" exhaust?
There is also the transmission to look at as well.. Probably the absolute best thing I have done for pulling hills is swap to an ACH 5 speed.. I always felt when I hit the mountains that I needed that extra gear between 3rd and 4th..
In my '81 Bunny 4 door I have the toilet bowl exhaust opened up to 2", governor mod, ACH trans, and 185 70 13 tires and can maintain the speed limit or a little more on most of the hills I encounter in Central PA.. Passing cars up hills rarely happens though...
A Giles pump would probably be the next think you could do short of a turbo, but bang for the buck a turbo would propably be the way to go...
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Giles $1k < Turbo ~$400
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I would love to turbo charge my motor, but need help sourcing the parts. What cars came with turbocharger I need? What cars came with the exhaust manifold I need? Can I use the stock IP? What is the intake manifold to use? What about my oil pan and all associated fittings? What other items would I need?
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I would love to turbo charge my motor, but need help sourcing the parts. What cars came with turbocharger I need? What cars came with the exhaust manifold I need? Can I use the stock IP? What is the intake manifold to use? What about my oil pan and all associated fittings? What other items would I need?
turbo diesel jettas, golfs, rabbits, well, basically anything turbo diesel will have most/all of the parts you will need.
it will probably be easier to find the parts on the forum, rather than off a car at a junk yard. people are always selling stock VW diesel turbo kits on here.
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Do you ever come up north? I've a header and I think 2.5" maybe 2.25" exhaust for a rabbit I'd let go really cheap but I don't want to ship.
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for a while i had a 2" toilet bowl down pipe with a 2.25 tt exhaust, it definitely ran well, then i swapped to a turbo diesel with the same exhaust and, then it really really ran well haha. u could easily build your own turbo setup, but its much easier to use vw parts. most smaller turbos off any car will work fine, especially if u just want more hill climbing ability, even the standard sized 45 trim t3 would work well
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Thanks to everyones feedback! I will now start collecting parts for turbo charging my N/A motor!
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Thanks to everyones feedback! I will now start collecting parts for turbo charging my N/A motor!
if you can find a VNT turbo off a TDI (99-2003) they bolt right up to the 1.6 head, and are a big upgrade to the stock T3..
you gotta rig up custom oil lines tho..
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Custom oil lines...
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Custom oil lines...
since the VNT hangs down soo low, the feed and return lines for high mounted turbos wont even come close to working.. i know, ive done the swap. been running it for 4 years (damn, didnt notice it was that long) now without an issue..
i used half of a T3 feed line, half of a TDI feed line, and a chunk of brake line for a sleeve to fit both lines in, then cut both lines the right length, slipped them in the sleeve, and CAREFULLY welded them back together on some super light duty heat settings on the welder..
for the return line, i cut the bottom half of a T3 line off, and then cut the flange off the TDI return line, i connected the 2 pieces with a ~3" chunk of oil hose..
downpipe is SUPER EASY to make on a mk1..
mk2 cars, its WAY TOUGHER to fit a integral VNT on them without a special rear engine mount..
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Giles $1k < Turbo ~$400
Just wanted to back this up. My friend went the Giles route and I went the turbo route on an N/A(still n/a pump)
I'll be nice, he wished he had gone my route.
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That is the message I wanted to hear, turbo and a N/A pump!!! What is your setup? What all items did you have to get for the conversion? Anything you learned and might have done a little different with the conversion? Thanks!
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That is the message I wanted to hear, turbo and a N/A pump!!! What is your setup? What all items did you have to get for the conversion? Anything you learned and might have done a little different with the conversion? Thanks!
i used a stock n/a long block, fitted a TD filter housing, oil pan, oil lines, VNT turbo, mk2 gasser intake manifold, intercooler.
i also used the n/a pump for a while. but theres no way i would ever use a n/a pump top again. you can modify the n/a pump body to throw down the same fueling as a TRUE TD pump.. i drove the fuel limiter pin out of the way of the governor fulcrum plate, and added a TD pump top to my n/a pump. man it came alive after i did that. shortly after i installed the LDA, and tweeked it close to where i wanted it, the clutch went up in flames (not literally, but you get the idea)
vdubspeed and I are probably the cheapest TD conversions on the forum. i did my swap for under a grand, including the cost of the vehicle. and it was over 4years/50k miles ago that i did my turbo conversion. havent had one issue since, except for blown boost couplers.. but those happen at high boost pressures. im running ~20 psi into a stock n/a block
vdubspeed built his setup very cheaply also..
if i were gonna do it again, theres no way i would try to build such big power out of a stock n/a engine. im far away from stock TD power levels. i would say i have atleast TWICE the power and torque of a stock TD engine. and my boost builds ALOT sooner because of my VNT turbo.. i can make full boost by 2000rpms.
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Giles $1k < Turbo ~$400
Just wanted to back this up. My friend went the Giles route and I went the turbo route on an N/A(still n/a pump)
I'll be nice, he wished he had gone my route.
If you're just building a pos that gets good mileage and can get out of it's own way this may be true but if you want to do a proper build Giles is the man bar none.
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If you're just building a pos that gets good mileage and can get out of it's own way this may be true but if you want to do a proper build Giles is the man bar none.
yes. But $1k for not much better mpg and less power? A Giles pump should not be wasted on a non turbo engine.. unless for some reason you have one sitting around..
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The n/a pumps from Giles I think are around $600-$650, not $1k. Even that is over the TD pump prices, or at least what we paid last year for one. Worked out to be around $900 USD ($950CAD) I believe for our TD performance rebuild. Great buy for sure. Definitely notice the difference in the car after we put it on. Couple it with a few little mods and you have a great addition to the car (we did a 2.5" exhaust and it really woke the car up. But we also coupled that with the full engine and turbo rebuild ;D ;D)
But if you are keeping the car n/a, as much I love our Giles pump, I do agree that going turbo first would be the way to go. Silly to spend the coin on a Giles pump on an n/a. Get that turbo on there, run it awhile, and save up for a TD pump from Giles 8)
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Giles $1k < Turbo ~$400
Just wanted to back this up. My friend went the Giles route and I went the turbo route on an N/A(still n/a pump)
I'll be nice, he wished he had gone my route.
If you're just building a pos that gets good mileage and can get out of it's own way this may be true but if you want to do a proper build Giles is the man bar none.
so, does that make my car more of a POS just because i dont have a giles pump on there? ive got a pump with less than 30k miles on my car, i dont feel it needs a rebuild quite yet..
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my friend's Giles pump was in the $900+ range!
My turbo setup was in the $400 to $500 but I build and do everything my self. That also includes the $100 EGT gauge!
My setup is a stock 1.6 n/a engine, 1.6 TD oil pump, Spearco intake, 1998 Jetta TDI exhaust manifold and turbo, custom oil feed and return lines. Pump has the gov mod and 1.5 turn in on the screw. I took a prothe downpipe and cut/reweld it to match up to my exhaust. I boost 15psi or there abouts. Car is a blast to drive now after driving an n/a pump.
Not to say that Giles doesn't build nice pumps BUT if you are looking to make a little more power, NOTHING will beat adding a snail and cranking up the fuel a little.
Here's the build thread. It really isn't much to read because boosting a diesel is so damn easy.
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=29061.0
Good luck,
Jason
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my friend's Giles pump was in the $900+ range!
My turbo setup was in the $400 to $500 but I build and do everything my self. That also includes the $100 EGT gauge!
My setup is a stock 1.6 n/a engine, 1.6 TD oil pump, Spearco intake, 1998 Jetta TDI exhaust manifold and turbo, custom oil feed and return lines. Pump has the gov mod and 1.5 turn in on the screw. I took a prothe downpipe and cut/reweld it to match up to my exhaust. I boost 15psi or there abouts. Car is a blast to drive now after driving an n/a pump.
Not to say that Giles doesn't build nice pumps BUT if you are looking to make a little more power, NOTHING will beat adding a snail and cranking up the fuel a little.
Here's the build thread. It really isn't much to read because boosting a diesel is so damn easy.
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=29061.0
Good luck,
Jason
oh man, if you had an LDA buddy.. you would be in heaven.
knock that limiter pin out of your n/a pump, and drop a TD top on your n/a pump. it does wonders. cleaned up my smoke, and gave me more boost. car was actually boosting to the mid 20s last night, it was a ROCKET.
and Natnah_B..
your truck is a mk1. and the back half of it is a big box of air... Lucas's car is a mk2 jetta. thats not even a good comparison.
mk1s, and mk2s are a WAY DIFFERENT ball game...
your truck, and his car could have the same HP/TQ, and your caddy would still be faster, its only like say, 700 lbs lighter?!
its all about power to weight, not whos pump your running.
im running a pump on my car that i built and tuned myself, and it does a damn good job of smoking clutches, and hurting trannies..
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I would say if you want a faster car do both. Add turbo and Giles pump.
Ding ding ding. Winner Winer Chicken Dinner!
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I would say if you want a faster car do both. Add turbo and Giles pump.
Ding ding ding. Winner Winer Chicken Dinner!
my car is fast enough, any faster and i would be having regular run-ins with the law..
my car is already squirrley, and a giles pump would make that worse for sure..
if you wanna make it a little faster, tune the pump you got, and open up the intake/exhaust..
if you wanna make it alot faster, turbo it, and crank up the stock fuel pump.
if you wanna make it REALLY FAST, then GILES pump it, and turbo it, but thats getting up close to the $2k price tag..
i have ~$1000 into my whole build, including the car..
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Seriously though, $2000 isn't that much money if you think about it... I know, people are on a budget, want to save money, do it yourself blah blah blah, but still, it's fun to save up and spend it on a real quality item :D
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I would say if you want a faster car do both. Add turbo and Giles pump.
Ding ding ding. Winner Winer Chicken Dinner!
I thought this is what we were talking about? If you want to run n/a all you should do is get a big exhaust a better intake and tweak the pump a bit...still to slow? Turbo.
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This is your warning. Next time it's a ban - theman53 and nathan_b. There is no need for that.