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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: dodger21 on March 28, 2011, 04:34:37 pm
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So, with my MMPG build, I am going to be conservative.
But I have an extra engine that is doing "nothing" right now.
So, what improvements can I make to a 1.6 NA to get more HP besides the obvious mods to the IP and a turbo.
I am talking head porting, valve sizing, rods, heads, cams...
I wonder how well it would spin with a 15% decrease in rod length? ::)
Or how a shorter rod/bigger bore setup will do...
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15% rod length and you will be smashing the pistons into the head..
Porting would help some with a 1.6na,
not as good as a stock aaz head though,
and still I suspect gains will be minimal without a turbo,
I think the exhaust will be the biggest bottleneck. or the smallest. lol
maybe a cam?
1.6na's suck, sorry. turbo it or something.
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Oh, I remember a thread where someone took a 1.6na and put a giles pump on it, decent exhaust, and made 75ish hp. Not bad at all.
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If actually read this, I said "besides the obvious"
I know Giles, turbos, etc.
I am talking an actual build.
Also since when does a 15% decrease in the rod LENGTH equal piston slapping heads? It puts the piston below the deck...
Please read before posting. ;)
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shorter rods will actually make revving worse, you'll still have the same stroke but much harsher rod angles
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sell it to me and i'll sell you my turbo!
i'd love to have a fresh NA.. :-[
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LoL.
People have been modifying 1.6's since like 2 years after they came out with them. They are the obvious upgrades because they are the only ones that matter. Everything else is completely useless.. Do all that stuff in addition to a Giles pump and Turbo? + Intercooler? Now your making power.
There is nothing that will make power on a 1.6 N/a other than the "obvious stuff".
Sorry.
I mean best case, put an AAZ head on, big exhaust, huge cold air intake, Governor Mod, and drive the piss outta it. You might break 63hp ;)
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The aaz head on an N/A may make less power...not enough velocity.
Porting to increase velocity and Bigger intake and exhaust tubing make worlds of difference in these engines, and that isn't so obvious.
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Since velocity is relative to volume and space, if you ported it, you would lose velocity unless you increased volume correct?
Don't really see how an aaz head can flow worse than a ported 1.6..
And sorry about my rod post, coulda sworn he said increase at one point..
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I did not say it didn't flow worse, it will flow better on a Turbo engine. On a non turbo the engine relies on the piston to suck the air in. In that case it would have LESS velocity in the air charge. Same would be true if it had bigger valves.
The shape of the port has more to do with velocity than the size and volume. Bigger will move more air but a taper will move the air faster....hope I make sense.
Like I said as well, MAY make less power. I haven't done it. Only in theory and talking with my guy that has a flowbench and does this better than I do :D
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you can take a n/a, and make almost-stock-1.8-8v power out of them, and they are pouring coals to be doing that..
like jeremy said, its the OBVIOUS things that make these things have tons of power..
i had nothing more than a modded n/a there for a while.. big intake and exhaust, dual downpipe, NITROUS, turned up fuel pump, and some other things..
still wouldnt touch what it would do when i turbo'd it..
and recently i added an intercooler, and cranked my fueling up as far as possible.
now, first gear is totally useless, and so is second.. you really gotta go easy on the throttle.. the right foot needs lessons in traction control.
and i have nothing more than the list of OBVIOUS modifications..
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Goodness!
Port and polish turbo intake is going to be done!
I am asking about valve grinds, boring, cams, smaller pre cups.
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Goodness!
Port and polish turbo intake is going to be done!
I am asking about valve grinds, boring, cams, smaller pre cups.
well, smaller pre-cups are counter-productive if you want boost..
what is a "port and polish turbo intake" ?
dont bore it out unless you need to, boring is not a good way to increase power on an engine this tiny..
valve grinding? what are you expecting performance wise from a valve grind? it just allows the valves to seal in the head better..
Giles does make performance cams for these engines..
look in the FAQ section, theres all you would EVER need to know about making your n/a faster, or converting it to a TD..
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I have read and re-read the FAQ.
I see this is going no where. Sorry I brought it up. ::)
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So, with my MMPG build, I am going to be conservative.
But I have an extra engine that is doing "nothing" right now.
So, what improvements can I make to a 1.6 NA to get more HP besides the obvious mods to the IP and a turbo.
I am talking head porting, valve sizing, rods, heads, cams...
I wonder how well it would spin with a 15% decrease in rod length? ::)
Or how a shorter rod/bigger bore setup will do...
well, had you asked a less-vague question, you might have gotten better answers..
why would you want to make your engine have shorter rods? thats just going to make the rod speed & angles more extreme. longer rods would be the way to do this, but a VW diesel is not limited by the bottom end, its limited by the injection pump.. ~5600 is pretty much all the more you can spin one of these things..
and why would you want to build power without boost? that just doesnt make much sense to me.. you dont need to perfectly port your head when you are CRAMMING AIR THRU THE PORTS.. sure, it helps, but no port and polish job is even going to come close to what a turbo or supercharger will do..
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I am not asking about making power with it being NA. Turbo sizing I can do.
Shorter (talking a little bit!) rod length allows for more RPMs while at the same time better cam profiles for allowing more duration, over lap, IP timing, etc.
I am wanting to know what guys have done for valves (size, grinds, material), cups, head profiles, etc.
Bunch of hard *ss here, aren't there?
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I am not asking about making power with it being NA. Turbo sizing I can do.
Shorter (talking a little bit!) rod length allows for more RPMs while at the same time better cam profiles for allowing more duration, over lap, IP timing, etc.
I am wanting to know what guys have done for valves (size, grinds, material), cups, head profiles, etc.
Bunch of hard *ss here, aren't there?
why do you need your bottom end to be capable of a million rpms? its still only gonna see around 6000, period, end of story, unless you miss a shift and hit second gear shifting from fifth.. what gain is there to be had if the rest of your engine cant support more than 6000 rpms, but the bottom end can?
there can not be any overlap in diesel cams, the pistons would mangle the valves if there was.. there isnt much gains to be had by way of cams like on a gasser engine..
none of us really do much valve work we slap an AAZ head on there and be done with it.. only the most OFF-THE-WALL builds use big valves.. and most people, when replacing their valves use stainless, or inconel valves.
nobody changes the pre-chambers for performance, its not needed. only time they get changed, is when they are cracked..
and most people just lightly port the head.. there are some crazy users who go balls deep and hog the ports way out..
most people just advance the timing to ~1mm on the IP and call it good..
see, when you have more specific questions, you get more specific answers.. 8)
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See, that is what I was looking for.
I have been told to look for AKI and saurkraut. Been looking up threads on them. Nice!
The reason behind the higher rpms is when torqued is applied more evenly though the RPM band, the less stuff breaks, the better turbo applications for racing.
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right.. and the point of racing is to not break your engine.. lol
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there is actually over lap on our cams, and diesel burns too slow to rev high enough to change the geometry of our engines to suit
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I thought that you wanted to make N/A power. Turbo is different. Port polish, swirl polished valves, AAZ head, custom exhaust and intake manifolds, cone filter, 2.5" Downpipe or 3" and the same size tubing all the way back no muffler. Have the pistons coated with that special heat barrier coating. Big stinking turbo *many out there, but search AKI 76 and MJF for nutty ones*, have the turbo ported, intercool it, and most importantly buy a pump like the one Libbybappa was selling or send one off to GILES at performance diesel injection.
After all that make sure your injectors are spraying good. Hate to trash it all on a general maintenance item :D
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You can mod your pump if you know what you are doing, otherwise, leave nothing to chance, and the pump to Giles. Also Vince Walden has some part munbers on his web site. One is for GTD nozzles, a good upgrade if you are getting the injectors rebuilt. Basically the way I understand the porting of the head is that you want to deflash it (remove the casting seam bumps) gasket match it, and leave it rough. Exhaust open up to a port match and from the manifold back, all one size. Get mandrel bent tubes for angles so as not to restrict it.