VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: adi on March 26, 2011, 03:59:31 am
-
I'm looking at getting an EGT guage to tune my GTD, but on ebay there seems to be different ranges of temps. What is the normal maximum EGT I should expect and try and keep it to? And whats the maximum EGT I can have before something goes wrong?
-
I think you can sustain 1200F for short lengths.. and can peak at 1400F briefly. I would get a gauge that shows 2-1500F as you want to know the temp for cool-down too. To make sure you dont cook the turbo if its still at 1000F and you shut it down with no more oil circulation.. right? lol
-
I like something with cool down. 200F to 1600F is plenty. I try never to go over 12-1300F. There are several threads in the general section and FAQ detailing this. Search for aircraft spruce, micro 1000, EGT probe, ETC IIRC the EGT probe you want is the micro 1000 and the gauge I used is a westach 2C2-1
-
So in my language I need 0-1000 degrees C ;D
And when tuning I should try and keep the boost/fuel mixture to keep it at no more than 700 degrees C (or 1300 degrees F)
-
yep, i can't remember what brand it is but the gauge i got is nicely color coded from green yellow and red
-
I just installed mine today, and was coming here to get research that same question. The no more than 1300 for a short time alarms me though cause when I was testing mine after install at WOT, it climbed to 1450. I have the VDO kit.
So since this thread is already off and running, and no one is suggesting the search function, can we get a little more input on this? As in, if I am running up to 1450 peak, do I need to add more fuel, or less?
During a test run, the buddy who helped me put it in (races gassers ICB class SCCA, builds his own race cars) suggested I had more fuel. The Eco diesel I have has the stock exhaust and DP, sans the cat, ECO pump and at WOT is running 10 PSI of Boost. So I already have one full turn in, and at his reccomendation, I gave it another quarter turn, ran the same road at WOT, and it only peaked at 1400. This would lend me to think that more fuel keeps the temps down but I know I have read somewhere that more fuel usually means hotter, I could be wrong.
I have also recorded a video, the gauges are a little blurry, but am doing a little over 70 and she is running at 1050. Also, I decided not to put in the water temp gauge as mine works, so if someone has a VDO Tach for a diesel, I have a brand new Water temp and sender Ill trade.
Here is the vid!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJePJTTQzdw
-
LOL, "BalzOnYer4Head," nice!
-
LOL, "BalzOnYer4Head," nice!
Heh, thanks. Its been my gamer tag forever. Kinda my online persona.
After reading around on the site anyway, it looks like short periods at those temps are ok, but anything sustained above that would be asking for trouble. Also, more fuel equals hotter EGT's according to what I have read around here.
What I want to know is, on the Eco, adjusting the wastegate (turning the screw in) allows for more boost? Or for max boost (10psi) longer? And if I turn that up, will it help reduce the egt's being created by my 1.25 turns in on the fuel screw?
-
More fuel = higher egts
more boost = lower egts (to a point, most agree at around 15psi)
Past 15 psi, intercooler,
when intercooling and egts are too high,time for an exhaust (exhaust maybe should come first.)
still too high time for a giles pump
still too high, water/injection/?? poorly documented territory.
1000+f is HIGH for 70mph. I hate cruising past 800f in my caddy, and thats like 85-90mph, aka top speed.
Normal 65mph=650f
60=600
55=550
but I have a 2.25 straight dp, stock pump tuned, gov mod, k14 with wastegate shut, aaz head helps too boost is like 18, regulate the boost with my right foot, try to keep under 17, not intercooled yet.
-
Iwas always on the understanding that an engine running too lean (i.e too much air/boost) will run hotter, so thats my thinking as to why your man suggested more fuel to lower the EGTs slightly...
-
Iwas always on the understanding that an engine running too lean (i.e too much air/boost) will run hotter, so thats my thinking as to why your man suggested more fuel to lower the EGTs slightly...
This is true in gasoline/petrol engines, diesel is a completely different engine design and many rules do not apply to both. The afr on diesels is primarily adjusted with your right foot and is related to power in an entirely different way than in gassers. Do some research on tuning these engines and pumps on this site and much will become apparent.
-
Iwas always on the understanding that an engine running too lean (i.e too much air/boost) will run hotter, so thats my thinking as to why your man suggested more fuel to lower the EGTs slightly...
This is true in gasoline/petrol engines, diesel is a completely different engine design and many rules do not apply to both. The afr on diesels is primarily adjusted with your right foot and is related to power in an entirely different way than in gassers. Do some research on tuning these engines and pumps on this site and much will become apparent.
It has to work to some degree for diesels as well. Before I removed the collar and turned the fuel up, at 70 (before I put the EGT in) all I had to go on was the water temp, and it would run right at the the third hash mark to the right. Once I gave the fuel a twist, she never went over half way between the middle and third mark, usually just a tic over half.
Im thinkin its cause the Eco runs sooo lean from stock? Im interested in what some of our resident VW Jedi's have to say on the matter.
-
EGT thread without mention of probe placement... wow.
The probe really has to be placed in the manifold. You can install it post turbo & add 200-300 degrees but its really way more complicated than that. The turbo removes heat but not in a linear way & also dampens temperature spikes. I have the micro-1000 probe & a autometer gauge. Reacts as fast at the boost gauge. You'll wonder what kind of damage you were doing after you get this installed.
-
Pre turbine. The VDO reacts quickly. If I'm hard on the throttle, the gauge instantly responds.
-
Probe position was actually going to be my next question. Is this a cast of drilling a hole, and welding a nut on there to screw the probe in?
-
Probe position was actually going to be my next question. Is this a cast of drilling a hole, and welding a nut on there to screw the probe in?
drill and tap it
-
Probe position was actually going to be my next question. Is this a cast of drilling a hole, and welding a nut on there to screw the probe in?
drill and tap it
Thats what I did. Ill have pics up soon of the placement. Gonna clean it up and add the pics to my original thread.
-
A little bit of a bump. ::)
All this talk of EGT's and after recently getting mine installed I wanna get my Eco pushin a little more boost. I know the wastegate is internal on the K14. I have literally scoured this site to find a decent pic of the screw that I need to turn to adjust it. I have gathered that there is a lock nut, but before I go tweakin on anything I would love to see a good pic with an explanation or an arrow pointing to the one that needs adjusting.
Thanks!
-
A little bit of a bump. ::)
All this talk of EGT's and after recently getting mine installed I wanna get my Eco pushin a little more boost. I know the wastegate is internal on the K14. I have literally scoured this site to find a decent pic of the screw that I need to turn to adjust it. I have gathered that there is a lock nut, but before I go tweakin on anything I would love to see a good pic with an explanation or an arrow pointing to the one that needs adjusting.
Thanks!
Hello good sir.
If you want more boost from a K14 you need to cut the metal wastegate line and put in a manual boost controller. Then you can just slip on some rubber hoses over the line and put the controller in the middle. You want the boost to be at 1-1.2 bar max. These hair dryers don't like much more :)
-
Thanks. I think I will wait than until the intercooler install. I just cranked the fuel back down to only being a full turn in, and it dropped the EGT's @ 70mph from 1050 to 850-900. Still plenty of pep and not blowin as much black.
A pic of this wastegate line would be sweet.
-
Unless you are wide open to maintain 70, this doesn't make much sense to me.
-
All this talk of EGT, I am wondering are you guys working all your temps in F? its just over here the uk its C and the gauges I have seen go up to 1000c
-
All this talk of EGT, I am wondering are you guys working all your temps in F? its just over here the uk its C and the gauges I have seen go up to 1000c
My temps are in farenheit.
@745 I do not have to go WOT to maintain 70. Maybe cause I am in fla at sealevel? On the way in today, 65mph ran at 800F. It was rainin some and the roads were wet so I run a little slower. Last night on the way home, 70mph ran at 900F.
-
If you are not WOT, then it takes X amnt of fuel to maintain 70, and you should do it at less throttle position with the same EGT regardless of smoke screw setting.
Rolling resistance makes a big difference, I recently took a 200 mile trip in heavy rain, and ran 1000F 14+PSI to hold 75MPH.
On the way home, it was back to 800F/9PSI at 80 MPH, and I did about 5 MPG better.
Apparently displacing water takes lots of energy .
-
If you are not WOT, then it takes X amnt of fuel to maintain 70, and you should do it at less throttle position with the same EGT regardless of smoke screw setting.
Rolling resistance makes a big difference, I recently took a 200 mile trip in heavy rain, and ran 1000F 14+PSI to hold 75MPH.
On the way home, it was back to 800F/9PSI at 80 MPH, and I did about 5 MPG better.
Apparently displacing water takes lots of energy .
I hear what you are saying but turnin the screw back a bit did lower the egts @70. I'm alsoo not comfortable at 75 or higher as the motor bucks sporadically a little bit once I start pushing it past that speed. When it bucks it also puffs dark black out the back.
-
Right I'm proper confused now...
My AAZ, running 8-9psi boost. only turned the fuel up a bit, but i get NO SOOT from the exhaust at all.
If I boot the throttle uphill, I can see 600 degrees CELCIUS in seconds, with no smoke? at idle, it's about 100 degrees C? you're all saying this is way too high?
I see about 350-400 degrees C at 60 on the flat, but this is in a small 4x4 (breeze block aerodynamics).
But the thing that confusesme is that I have No soot at all? It's an aircraft grade EGT gauge?
-
Right I'm proper confused now...
My AAZ, running 8-9psi boost. only turned the fuel up a bit, but i get NO SOOT from the exhaust at all.
If I boot the throttle uphill, I can see 600 degrees CELCIUS in seconds, with no smoke? at idle, it's about 100 degrees C? you're all saying this is way too high?
I see about 350-400 degrees C at 60 on the flat, but this is in a small 4x4 (breeze block aerodynamics).
But the thing that confusesme is that I have No soot at all? It's an aircraft grade EGT gauge?
1. confusion is common here :)
2. Not all engines dump soot like a steam engine making heat on a grade. You are also not dumping enough fuel into your engine to make a steam engine load of soot with the amount of fuel you are running. If you have the need to do that, do the 2010 fuel mod.
3. they are hitting in and around the same temps as you, but with more fuel and more ponies available. Diesels are funny in that if they are too lean they get too hot, if they are rich they get too hot. So the trick is finding the happy medium.
4 no soot as you are running leaner then most guys here, and yes aircraft grade probes are the norm.
-
Right I'm proper confused now...
My AAZ, running 8-9psi boost. only turned the fuel up a bit, but i get NO SOOT from the exhaust at all.
If I boot the throttle uphill, I can see 600 degrees CELCIUS in seconds, with no smoke? at idle, it's about 100 degrees C? you're all saying this is way too high?
600 degrees Celsius = 1112 degrees Fahrenheit
If I bury it on a hill, I see 1200F in a second or two, and might creep to 1400. I think the stock turbo is introducing a lot of heat at 1 bar.
No soot.
I also pretty much never cruise under 75 on flat ground
-
Thanks for the replys Guys, I'm just worried that I'm seeing such high EGTs with no gov mod and no soot? surely tuning this engine will only increase temps, and I'm already at 1100 degs F?
I understand that extra unburnt fuel increases temps, and a leaner burns is cooler on a diesel - I'm just worried about my temps ???
How much difference would a nice free-flowing header/downpipe make? my current one (non-standard) is a little constrictive, at about 1.75" bore.
-
Thanks for the replys Guys, I'm just worried that I'm seeing such high EGTs with no gov mod and no soot? surely tuning this engine will only increase temps, and I'm already at 1100 degs F?
I understand that extra unburnt fuel increases temps, and a leaner burns is cooler on a diesel - I'm just worried about my temps ???
How much difference would a nice free-flowing header/downpipe make? my current one (non-standard) is a little constrictive, at about 1.75" bore.
wheres your timing at?
retarded timing can cause high EGTs and make your turbo overspool..
my old engine would make 40 psi with a vnt, because of severely retarded timing..
-
wheres your timing at?
retarded timing can cause high EGTs and make your turbo overspool..
my old engine would make 40 psi with a vnt, because of severely retarded timing..
Er... set by ear at the moment... really must get myself a DTI adapter...