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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: rodpaslow on March 10, 2011, 08:02:36 am
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I have a very quick question. I read recently; can't remember which post, but someone had a vnt that started spooling right off 1000 rpm. I think it was about 5 lbs of boost. I am going to be starting to install mine shortly (vnt 15) - with the vanes closed at this rpm is it safe? Can you bend a rod spooling right off idle?
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I don't think an idi injection pump can put out enough fuel at 1,000rpms to create enough boost to bend a rod. Personally, I think if you made that much boost without rpms increasing, (theoretical) the motor would stall before it made enough power to bend a rod.
but theres only one way to find out. put a boost gauge on it and report back.
My k14 can make 5 psi in neutral, so 5psi in a loaded 1000rpms is not that impressive imo.
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if you make 5 psi at 1000 rpms, you are going to be making around 40 by 3500 rpms.. ask me how i know? ask me what happens?
seriously tho, you can boost the head right off a VW diesel with a VNT..
ive done it before :o
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So... don't run the vanes closed/ problem avoided.
As long as you ave acceptable egts and boost numbers
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no dude, dont run them closed.. you will (possibly damage your engine) make 40 psi, and NO power.. run the vanes as open as you can get them if you arent gonna hook them up cable operated..
that stop with the adjustable set screw, thats the closed position.. you want the lever to point up, not towards the firewall..
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R.O.R-2.0
what vw engine you send head to space ?
how manny boost to that hapen ?
im trying to use vnt 15 too , but i was thinking just change the can by 1 of pression and kind take it easy to pedal in low rpms..
but since im a fast and nervous guy in trafic ... probably not good ideia just relay in heavy food..
in actuactor arm , you can take pression away ? going forward , or backwards?
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im going to make the assumption that pression means pressure?
and the head never actually left the block, it was just very close..
it was a 1.5D that i turbocharged the crap out of..
my timing was stupidly retarded, and it would make 40 psi boost, apparently enough to vaporize a head gasket..
if you dont have the ability to hook up your vanes of the turbo to the inj pump throttle arm like many on here have done, then just open them all the way up..
the little arm on the turbo is pointing up when the vanes are open, and the lever should be away from the adjustable stop,not against it. when the lever is against the stop, the vanes are closed, and you will overboost the hell out of your engine..
i drive my car like i stole it every day. it has no way to control max boost besides the fuel quantity going into the engine.. if i want more or less boost, i use my max fuel screw on the pump to adjust it.. thats basically the only way to adjust the max boost of the turbo, since it has no wastegate..
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I'm am planning to hook up some sort of cable control to control the vanes, but I'd like to hit between 20-25 lbs of boost. I've seen some posts here with cable and full mechanical control and from the sounds of it, from posts, seems to work pretty good. I don't drive my car too hard, most days; but I definitely want to improve the off idle to 3500 rpm speed. I have a t3 at the moment with all the goodies (& water to air intercooler) and I don't see any speed till about 2500+ rpm, and then woosh I off. I want to improve that too maybe 1500 with a steady pull till max boost & 35 to 4000 rpm.
It sounds like it will definitely improve bottom end, was just concerned about over-doing it down low.
Thanks!
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sounds to me like you need a k14, not a vnt.
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Im going to be running a VNT onmy 1.6td pretty soon .I plan on modifying a 1.8t wastegate actuator in place of the factory VNT actuator. That should give me proper operation of the viens while using a manual boost controller
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I have the vanes locked closed on my 1.5 Rabbit,
with the VNT-15.
I watch the boost gauge more closely than the speedometer when accelerating.
I have boosted past 30psi,... last number on the gauge.
Yeah for head studs.
I'm going to set mine up so it can be adjusted with a knob on the dash, like the cold start handle,
and still be effected by boost.
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30psi with vanes closed makes no power, it just chokes engine breathing. EMP will tell what is going in vnt.
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Im going to be running a VNT onmy 1.6td pretty soon .I plan on modifying a 1.8t wastegate actuator in place of the factory VNT actuator. That should give me proper operation of the viens while using a manual boost controller
no, it wont, its going to give you a turbo that is super restrictive off boost..
unless you know something about a 1.8T wastegate that we dont..
wastegate cans are a BAD IDEA when it comes to VNT operation..
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I have the vanes locked closed on my 1.5 Rabbit,
with the VNT-15.
I watch the boost gauge more closely than the speedometer when accelerating.
I have boosted past 30psi,... last number on the gauge.
Yeah for head studs.
I'm going to set mine up so it can be adjusted with a knob on the dash, like the cold start handle,
and still be effected by boost.
were your vanes on the stop, or away from the stop?
like closed down to where the turbo will overspeed very easily and make boost at idle basically?
mine are wide open, and it works best this way, from my experiences..
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Right, against the stop, will make boost without being under load but not at idle.
Your's is a VNT-17, right? There is a big difference. I wouldn't run my VNT-15 with the vanes tied open.
I agree 30 psi doesn't give me more power, actually feels like less power.
I'll be pulling the turbo, freeing up the vanes and working on a vane controller that can be manually adjusted like the cold start timing advance knob.
My last controller held the lever tight against the turbo,..
it's on a small arc,
it needs to pull away from the turbo to come off open or closed.
The next controller won't push it against the turbo, might even pull it away some,.. then the boost does some more controlling like my current setup would if the boost line was connected.
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pardon my ignorance, where does one find a VNT15? (and intake and exhaust mannifolds?) I looked on Garrett's site and they don't list a VNT15, they list a G15
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R.O.R-2.0
what do you think its the best way to control vnt ?
cable operation ?
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trav1856
in cars like seat ibiza gttdi 110 hp
golf 4 tdi 110
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trav1856
in cars like seat ibiza gttdi 110 hp
golf 4 tdi 110
are you sure that's not 110kW? which would be 150hp
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nop
my turbo is vnt 15 and come from a seat ibiza 6k gttdi 110 hp
i know that turbo are found in manny others cars
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Right, against the stop, will make boost without being under load but not at idle.
Your's is a VNT-17, right? There is a big difference. I wouldn't run my VNT-15 with the vanes tied open.
I agree 30 psi doesn't give me more power, actually feels like less power.
I'll be pulling the turbo, freeing up the vanes and working on a vane controller that can be manually adjusted like the cold start timing advance knob.
My last controller held the lever tight against the turbo,..
it's on a small arc,
it needs to pull away from the turbo to come off open or closed.
The next controller won't push it against the turbo, might even pull it away some,.. then the boost does some more controlling like my current setup would if the boost line was connected.
some tell me i have a VNT15, some tell me its a 17..
its a GT1749v.. ive read that the ALH came with a 1549, and a 1749..
either way, i know i have a VNT, and it makes LOADS of boost.
original poster should have a VNT17 also, since he has the 110hp engine.
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pardon my ignorance, where does one find a VNT15? (and intake and exhaust mannifolds?) I looked on Garrett's site and they don't list a VNT15, they list a G15
off any TDI thats 2000+
garrett calls them GT15vnt...
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Im going to be running a VNT onmy 1.6td pretty soon .I plan on modifying a 1.8t wastegate actuator in place of the factory VNT actuator. That should give me proper operation of the viens while using a manual boost controller
no, it wont, its going to give you a turbo that is super restrictive off boost..
unless you know something about a 1.8T wastegate that we dont..
wastegate cans are a BAD IDEA when it comes to VNT operation..
why wastegate s are a bad idea?
i control my max boos with one on my gt2052v
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Im going to be running a VNT onmy 1.6td pretty soon .I plan on modifying a 1.8t wastegate actuator in place of the factory VNT actuator. That should give me proper operation of the viens while using a manual boost controller
no, it wont, its going to give you a turbo that is super restrictive off boost..
unless you know something about a 1.8T wastegate that we dont..
wastegate cans are a BAD IDEA when it comes to VNT operation..
why wastegate s are a bad idea?
i control my max boos with one on my gt2052v
is the wastegate your only means of controlling your VNT? as in, hooked up so that it directly operates the vanes?
thats bad because at idle, and at light load conditions, the vanes will be closed. and it will make more back pressure while driving down the road..
if you had control where your vanes were open at idle, but then close when you mash the throttle, then open up again as boost comes on.. thats the more ideal way to control a VNT if you dont have the electronics to operate them..
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pardon my ignorance, where does one find a VNT15? (and intake and exhaust mannifolds?) I looked on Garrett's site and they don't list a VNT15, they list a G15
off any TDI thats 2000+
garrett calls them GT15vnt...
yeah but the intake and exhaust aren't going to bolt to a 1.6 are they?
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pardon my ignorance, where does one find a VNT15? (and intake and exhaust mannifolds?) I looked on Garrett's site and they don't list a VNT15, they list a G15
off any TDI thats 2000+
garrett calls them GT15vnt...
Would you use a gasser intake and fabricate a header? or find a jetta set? I dunno.
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pardon my ignorance, where does one find a VNT15? (and intake and exhaust mannifolds?) I looked on Garrett's site and they don't list a VNT15, they list a G15
off any TDI thats 2000+
garrett calls them GT15vnt...
yeah but the intake and exhaust aren't going to bolt to a 1.6 are they?
Pretty sure it will.
I have a 1.6 N/A and am using an inlet manifold off a mk4 TDi golf, I think the exhaust manifold should be the same fitment(8v engines, not sure if USA got a crossflow diesel at all, but in the Uk it was just a stock 8v like all the other earlier diesels). I think it was only when they got to 16v TDi's and the engines in the mk5 that stuff stops fitting.
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Im going to be running a VNT onmy 1.6td pretty soon .I plan on modifying a 1.8t wastegate actuator in place of the factory VNT actuator. That should give me proper operation of the viens while using a manual boost controller
no, it wont, its going to give you a turbo that is super restrictive off boost..
unless you know something about a 1.8T wastegate that we dont..
wastegate cans are a BAD IDEA when it comes to VNT operation..
my garret vnt says in flat area vnt 15 so i think is not the same turbo that you are talking ..
gt i think is fixed geometry ..
if i make trotle cable in conjuction with the pressure can , how the vanes open again in boost ? since the trothle cable as puxing them to close ? ani ideias
why wastegate s are a bad idea?
i control my max boos with one on my gt2052v
is the wastegate your only means of controlling your VNT? as in, hooked up so that it directly operates the vanes?
thats bad because at idle, and at light load conditions, the vanes will be closed. and it will make more back pressure while driving down the road..
if you had control where your vanes were open at idle, but then close when you mash the throttle, then open up again as boost comes on.. thats the more ideal way to control a VNT if you dont have the electronics to operate them..
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I've a mk5 golf turbo - that bolts up just fine.
If the bolt holes are in line vertically it fits - if diagonal it doesn't!
is the wastegate your only means of controlling your VNT? as in, hooked up so that it directly operates the vanes?
thats bad because at idle, and at light load conditions, the vanes will be closed. and it will make more back pressure while driving down the road..
But is it really? You see, I thought this was the case when I spent months researching my controller and designing it to have open vanes at idle - but since building it I have conflicting opinions, including apparently the men who design Audis. they idle with the vanes closed.
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idling with vanes closed isn't that terrible, all John Deere powertech four cylinders do that.
But if it was me hooking it up I'd use the boost signal as it is the most important load signal from the engine.
I'd set my turbo up so the vanes can never fully close (spring applied to close) so they are always a little open for safety, and then use the building of boost to open them up with a dual spring set up so that at light load, they open easily so you have the least restriction when cruising on the highway. and a second harder spring that opens them up progressively when you are pouring the coal on. So that they don't open up too fast in the upper boost ranges.
Once you figure out the spring combo. should be good.
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That's the plan. Mine will be a cable setup. I think the VNT I bought was off a 2000 MK4 car. Looks like it hasn't seen a whole lot of use and the control is nice at loose for the vanes at the moment. I assuming its a 15 as it was off a jetta Mk4. I don't know what it came with, but I'm assuming if it worked on a 1.9 tdi it will more than do on a 1.6. It is 1 piece manifold and turbo and will bolt right up to a 1.6 head; no problem.
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cool man. what will control your cable?
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I've a mk5 golf turbo - that bolts up just fine.
If the bolt holes are in line vertically it fits - if diagonal it doesn't!
is the wastegate your only means of controlling your VNT? as in, hooked up so that it directly operates the vanes?
thats bad because at idle, and at light load conditions, the vanes will be closed. and it will make more back pressure while driving down the road..
But is it really? You see, I thought this was the case when I spent months researching my controller and designing it to have open vanes at idle - but since building it I have conflicting opinions, including apparently the men who design Audis. they idle with the vanes closed.
im not worried about idling with the vanes open. im worrying about going down the road with the vanes closed, and making WAY too much back pressure..
and yes, the VNTs bolt right up. they have the manifold cast as 1 piece with the turbo.. i welded the EGR port shut and trimmed the top ear a little. and i used a mk2 gasser intake manifold with the bottom of runner #3 modified..
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some tell me i have a VNT15, some tell me its a 17..
its a GT1749v.. ive read that the ALH came with a 1549, and a 1749..
either way, i know i have a VNT, and it makes LOADS of boost.
original poster should have a VNT17 also, since he has the 110hp engine.
If it's from an AFN you have the VNT15...
GT1544 or K03, wastegate turbos used on 1Z and AHU 90hp non-VNT TDI engines
GT1749V aka. VNT15 used on the 90 and 110hp VNT TDI engines
GT1749VA aka. VNT17 used on the 130hp TDI engines
GT1749VB used on the 150hk TDI engines
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some tell me i have a VNT15, some tell me its a 17..
its a GT1749v.. ive read that the ALH came with a 1549, and a 1749..
either way, i know i have a VNT, and it makes LOADS of boost.
original poster should have a VNT17 also, since he has the 110hp engine.
If it's from an AFN you have the VNT15...
GT1544 or K03, wastegate turbos used on 1Z and AHU 90hp non-VNT TDI engines
GT1749V aka. VNT15 used on the 90 and 110hp VNT TDI engines
GT1749VA aka. VNT17 used on the 130hp TDI engines
GT1749VB used on the 150hk TDI engines
that about makes no sense whatsoever..
i trust you are right, but the way things are named, makes no sense..
my turbo is off an 01 ALH..
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ALH = VNT15 (GT1749V)
VNT15 is just a nickname you yanks have given the GT1749V to distinguish it from the the bigger GT1759VA (VNT17) :)
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'Mericans do lots of shizz that dont make sense!
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Cable control I plan on having the throttle cable connected opposite to the throttle cable, as you step on the go pedal, the cable will be pulled closing the vanes, a vacuum boost can will control in the opposite direction. - just like "dual spring set up so that at light load, they open easily so you have the least restriction when cruising on the highway. and a second harder spring that opens them up progressively when you are pouring the coal on. So that they don't open up too fast in the upper boost ranges."
All the cable setup has to have in addition is a stop plate so once the vanes are closed (or as closed as you want them) the boost can is against the stop so once boost pressure is reached it has something to push against to open the vanes.
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Cool man that will work, just as long as the boost can that opens the vanes after the cable shuts em with throttle input is set low to start, if you have vanes closed for too long its and engine brake!
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Cable control I plan on having the throttle cable connected opposite to the throttle cable, as you step on the go pedal, the cable will be pulled closing the vanes, a vacuum boost can will control in the opposite direction. - just like "dual spring set up so that at light load, they open easily so you have the least restriction when cruising on the highway. and a second harder spring that opens them up progressively when you are pouring the coal on. So that they don't open up too fast in the upper boost ranges."
All the cable setup has to have in addition is a stop plate so once the vanes are closed (or as closed as you want them) the boost can is against the stop so once boost pressure is reached it has something to push against to open the vanes.
search for andrews (Libbybapa) VNT control mechanism.. its very much like what you are describing..
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and others
there some youtube videos , vnt operated that way
what i dont understend theres 2 types of vnt ?
1 with exaust manifold and turbo build in piece
and there ones like mine turbo unit only , separated exaust manifold
mine says in flat area vnt 15
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Besides the Garret VNT turbos;
VW also used a KP 39 and KP 49,.. KKK products,
that bolt right to a 1.6 as well.
I think the KP 39 is something close to what americans would call a VNT 16.
It also has some feedback to let you know where the vanes are sitting.
Since these turbos were sometimes sticky, because they are moving all those vanes.
A certain vacuum might not put the vanes where they are supposed to be,.. so feedback to the computer was needed.
This could probably be used to make some colored lights change on your dash,.. or a gauge move.
I'm really looking forward to being able to push a knob on the dash to adjust boost and see what happens as far as fuel mileage on the highway,..
searching for optimum.
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I am of an idea that ideal mileage will be a balance of just enough boost to rid smoke, and a turbo that can do it while flowin exhaust fairly unrestricted with almost open vanes. at 3000 rpm, these engines should have enough exhaust velocity to achieve it.
Dammit! I was supposed to keep doin reno's on the home. Now I am turbo shoppin.