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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: regcheeseman on November 18, 2010, 01:53:56 am
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Now I appreciate I shouldn't touch turbos ;) but I'm going to anyway and would appreciate some assistance.....
Here we have a low mileage BV39, the main body needs to be clocked nearly 180 degrees and then the cold scroll(?) need to return to it original position
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/P1020778.jpg)
First off, take it apart, a single locating pin should make it fairly easy to relocate the body, but the vanes present a challenge
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/P1020779.jpg)
Ideally I'd like to move the vane marked with a white dot over to the vacant space or rotate the vane assembly the required amount
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/P1020780.jpg)
I've no idea how it is assembled and what solution would be workable until I get the thing apart.
Which is where I got stuck last night, (actually it was 2am this morning)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/P1020781.jpg)
I had a few prods at the assembly and gave it a few taps with a punch but mechanical sensitivity and the time of day thankfully stopped me from reaching for the big hammer and belting it to death.
What is the attack mode from here? Can I tap that ring out with a punch, do I need to make a tool with a pin on it? Does that assembly turn left or right?
Or should I leave the vane assembly well alone and just move the actuator instead?
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Do those little pulleys(rollers) pull off? There appears to be something under the bottom one in the picture, possibly a set screw?. I might just be seeing things and I'm also with Andrew on this one. Keep us posted!
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Do those little pulleys(rollers) pull off? There appears to be something under the bottom one in the picture, possibly a set screw?. I might just be seeing things and I'm also with Andrew on this one. Keep us posted!
those little roller lift out, and are sat in holes, which is what you can see. then the metal ring they are sat in lifts out and that's it, a plain flat surface underneath.
It also looks like there is an angled hole in your final picture in the exhaust housing at approx. the 12'00 position.
Yes I was going to ask about that, i.e. what is it?
It hadn't crossed my mind to replicate it - so thanks for the input.
The housing was flooded with penetrating oil and left, I couldn't touch it last night as yet again it was nearly midnight before I got out to the garage and the noisiest thing I could do was polish my paintwork by hand. ::)
This turbo is very low mileage and has been very clean with all the bolts etc undoing with ease - hopefully the vane holder will not present too much resistance - but I have the heat on standby.
That punch hole looks like it's only purpose would be to turn the assembly so I'm not convinced that it will pull out.
I will indeed keep you posted....
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Right, now I'm in trouble.... ::)
The new KKKs are pressed together and designed to not come apart without destruction.
I've got the vane assembly out but it's housing, the bit that needs to rotate is still firmly in the turbo casting with no way of getting any decent purchase to press it out.
I've been speaking to people who build turbos for a living and the response is the same, they don't come out in one piece and you cannot get a replacement.
Anyone know somewhere to get KKK parts?
If was to have something made, what should it be made from?
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I thought the vane assembly was the part that needed to rotate,
It is indeed but I've got all of the vane assembly out apart from it's housing
Yes, need to take another pic......
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Why don't you just take the ring that moves all the vanes and have a machinist or yourself grind out another slot 180 degrees opposite the original and you'd be all set. Well it wouldn't be exactly 180, just put it clockwise of the white vane in the space.
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This is the vane assembly out,
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/P1020792.jpg)
the housing was so reluctant to budge that the bolt threads stripped before the housing moved - yes it was heated
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/P1020793.jpg)
This is left behind, not much to grab onto
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/P1020791.jpg)
Even less to press it out from the other side
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/P1020790.jpg)
I'm thinking about my options and seeing what parts are available....
Either I leave the housing in place and machine it to refit the vane assembly in a new position - obviously this will involve fitting the bolts in he wrong way.
I could TIG the vanes asssembly back in place
Or I get the parts and press them in in a new position
Why don't you just take the ring that moves all the vanes and have a machinist or yourself grind out another slot 180 degrees opposite the original and you'd be all set.
180° looks like it would put the vane lever between the two vanes. That wouldn't work. You could move it to a space between vanes, but the nearest one looks to be 20-25° out and the max out of vertical is supposed to be 15°.
Yes spot on, it would have been an easy option but not workable.
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So just to be clear as far as what we're looking at, I assume that there are three bolts threaded through that plate that basically bolt that plate to the vane assembly. On initial assembly, the vane assembly and plate bolted to it are then pressed onto that center piece. Is that correct?
Yes, spot on.
I would cut those bolts off flush, drill the bolt holes the rest of the way through the vane carrier, counter-sink them, drill three corresponding holes in that plate and tap them. Bolt it back together. Then drill that angled drain hole and the alignment hole for the pin in the center cartridge, bolt it all back together and Bob's your uncle.
It's exactly what I see as the best option at the moment, the only problem area is those three bolts are rattling around, I can cut them flush but I cannot remove them.
Oh and drilling the threaded holes through the vane carrier, puts them on that step, no biggie - extra machining required.
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Can you get any purchase at all on the heads of the bolts in order to drill them out or at least below flush?
No, no way at all. >:(
A weld may be the answer.
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Well after quite a stint of fruitless searching and duff leads that gave me 'experts' that could supply a re-con unit/sell me another turbo because mine was un-rebuildable I found the everso helpfull Mellett and amazingly a UK company, great website, full catalogue of bits, AND based in the UK.
I contacted the sales team, they sent me all the details I needed and photo's of the bit's but they couldn't actually sell them to me and they weren't prepared to tell me who their distributors were either.
Next google session found me Krone turbo in china, a tiny little thumbnail image may have been half of the bits i wanted so I made an equiry.
They sent back a picture....
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/3000-016-025-1.jpg)
perfect! All the bits I need, all I need now is to get them on my doorstep...then I dont need to worry, I can smash the old nozzle out and replace all with new, in the modified orientation.
Yes I know the questionable nature of chinese turbos, but as this isn't the spinny round and round tremendously fast bit, it should (hopefully) be ok.
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After a lot of being messed about by UK 'distributors that wouldn't or couldn't supply me with bits. I managed to broker a deal direct with China, the bits arrived and were wrong. ::)
I then sent an array of photos showing me measuring everything with digital readout visible to Jrone direct, in basic english I sorted out a 1 off deal, and the bits thankfully turned up....and looked ike they might fit.
I toyed with all sorts of methods then used a bit of acetate with concentric circles printed on it to mark up the new positions for the locating dowels for vane assembly and housing.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/turborebuild1.jpg)
I made up a tool from a washer to tighten the nozzle
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/turborebuild4.jpg)
Assembled the vane assembly
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/turborebuild7.jpg)
And fitted the outer housing
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/turborebuild8.jpg)
The cold side is now in the wrong place but it's only located by a circlip, which was soon shifted.
Can you believe this was a used turbo bought from ebay for £70 delivered, I've not cleaned it or anything!
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/turborebuild.jpg)
While its off, should I taper the output to flow better?
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/turborebuild3.jpg)
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Nice work Clive! :)
Is the controller for it up and running yet?
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I think I'll build an angled adapter before ever trying to clock a BV39.
Not sure what you mean 'angled adaptor'
However, now I know how they come apart (had to break it) all you need is that tool with the three pegs on it and they are child play.
Annoying when you phone the so called experts and they tell you "No they do not come apart and you cannot buy spares for them"
IDIOTS. >:(
As far as the compressor outlet goes, there is a stock hose that clips into it. I think you want something like this:
Something like that, but the outlet is exactly 2" bore - matching all my I/C pipework. I've a plan to fabricate an fitting.....
Meanwhile, why isn't that outlet tapered and more to the point, should it be?
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I never realized how TINY those things are.
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So again, just to gain clarity, are you saying that w/ the three-toothed tool, the center piece unscrews, allowing access to the bolts that hold the vane assembly to the plate that was stuck in the turbo?
Bang-on! Just undo the centre piece (nozzle) and the complete vane assembly drops out - really easy when you know how. ::)
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Is the pressure of that center piece the only thing the orients the vane assembly
nah read again...
I toyed with all sorts of methods then used a bit of acetate with concentric circles printed on it to mark up the new positions for the locating dowels for vane assembly and housing.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/turborebuild1.jpg)
the vane assembly and the outer housing are both pinned, I also had to drill a drain hole? in the cast section.
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(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Enginegoingin012.jpg)
Built up the vane operating mechanism on the turbo and concocted a messy manifold to fit the pressure and oil temp senders, I've since decided it was rubbish and got some decent fittings from local hose specialist - he was very helpful and gave me a really good cash price ;D
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i read your post on clocking the bv turbo. i got a bv43a which needs clocking and looks the same as yours. do i need to buy those bits from china or can i reuse mine. it unscrews anti clockwise with your special washer tool?
grateful for any help