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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: ffgb on July 13, 2010, 02:16:01 am
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I have decided to delete my AC on my 1981 Rabbit 1.6N/A. I know I will need the non-AC bracket, h20-crank-alternator pulleys, alternator, and spacer for the alternator. I am having a hard time trying to locate all of these parts. I don't mind piecing it out if I could buy the individual parts from different vendors. Need help sourcing all of these parts.
There is a ton of mk2's in the junkyard, unfortunately there are all gas models, has anyone here used this bracket setup and still be able to use the mk1 timing belt cover?
Thanks
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You can save some time and just get a kit with alt from the company off the Vortex
?
GB
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GEE-BEE, do you happen to remember what the name of that company is?
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[email protected]
INAEngineering.com
Nice....
GB
you can get the 6pk923 belt from your local supplier
Dont forget the clutch pulley , ebay 68.00
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I know I can save time, but I have time to gather parts. The entire kit cost $599. That is a little steep for some of us. I was just wondering besides finding a complete MK1 diesel non/ac bracket and associated items if anyone here has utilized the items from a gasser Mk2 or MK3. I did some searches on this topic, and it seems there are some people here who have gone that route. I just haven't seen a complete installation with a list of all the components needed for a non/ac conversion, be it v-belt or not. If I can get $600 for my complete AC system on car, then I would jump all over the serpentine kit, but funds are tight right now, and when the junkyards have 50% days on all items and the abundance of gasser MK2's and MK3's are there, I would like to recycle some of the VW parts.
Thanks
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You have 2 options:
1) Complete MK1 setup
2) MK2 style with some mods.
The MK2 style uses the same base bracket (as used on cars with AC). The bracket is cast iron and looks exactly the same as the cast iron bracket currently on your Rabbit. The only difference is in the diameter and pitch of the bolt hole for the alternator. On the MK1 it's 6mm (IIRC) and on the MK2 it's like 8mm. So, if you want to retap your holes to accept the larger bolt, then you can use a MK2 diesel alternator.
The alt swings down instead of up, and if I'm not mistaken, uses the same pulleys as the cars with AC. I can't be certain on this last point, but I want to remember that they're the same.
Anyways. I think you'd have a better chance of finding the MK2 setup than the MK1 setup. They'll bolt up to your motor just the same, and in fact, the early ones used on the USA Golfs used the same plug on the alternator as the MK1 version.
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Thank You, that's awesome. Do you know how to tension the alternator belt? I came across this website, http://mk1ultra.com/mods/90a_alt/index.html (http://mk1ultra.com/mods/90a_alt/index.html), it seems to be the answer to my ac delete. Has anyone fabricated this tensioner? If so, what are your feedbacks to this and how many miles do you have with this setup?
Thank You
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Thank You, that's awesome. Do you know how to tension the alternator belt? I came across this website, http://mk1ultra.com/mods/90a_alt/index.html (http://mk1ultra.com/mods/90a_alt/index.html), it seems to be the answer to my ac delete. Has anyone fabricated this tensioner? If so, what are your feedbacks to this and how many miles do you have with this setup?
Thank You
Looks a little hokey to me.
As for my original post, I should clarify a few things:
1) You should be able to use your MK1 cast-iron bracket and install the different alternator. BUT, you may have to clearance some material. I want to think that there are a few ribs of the casting that might interfere.
2) When I said you could use the AC pulleys, I meant for the crank and the water pump. The alt. pulley is definitely different.
Essentially, on a MK2 car, the difference between the AC and Non-AC setup are:
1) Alternator. The non-AC uses a 65 amp alt. with mounting ears that are 180 degrees apart. The AC uses a 90 amp alternator with mounting ears that are 90/290 degrees apart.
2) Alt bracket. The Non-AC alt bracket mounts to where the curved AC adjustment bracket would go, and is quite short. The MK2 one mounts to the head and is fixed (i.e. non-adjustable) and long.
3) Pulleys. The alt pulleys are DEFINITELY different, the other pulleys MAY interchange. I can't remember exaxtly.
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Ok, for clarification:
1) Use my existing AC bracket, grind the ribs, and get a mk1 non-ac diesel alternator, non-ac alternator pulley.
2) Use a mk2 alternator bracket along with a mk2 diesel alternator, non-ac alternator pulley.
But what do I use for the adjustment/tensioner? Are the tensioners different for 1 and 2 and where is the best place to source them, junkyard or online shop?
Thanks
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I am really fuzzy on the details now, but I deleted the A/C on my 81 Rabbit gasser convertible using parts from a late 80's VW Fox. I'm not absolutely sure the same bolt holes are resident on the gasser and diesel blocks, but they may be.
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Let me get this straight.
MKII brackets
MKI no a/c alt
different alt top piece?
Is that how I am reading above?
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here you go
Ebay item's :230467207391 1.9 AAZ TYPE
MK II DIESEL : 220632819175
MK I DIESEL TYPE : 360251729457
So what else ?
GB
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When using the mk1 or mk2 alternator bracket, with appropriate non-ac alternator, the alternator is moved down and lower than the stock mk1 ac setup. But, once the alternator is relocated, you have to adjust it from the bottom. That's my question, how do you adjust or tension it? What other parts are needed to make it work? I guess I can try and fabricate a piece and tension it from the top or bottom?
-Thanks
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There's a curved bar bolted down where the AC compressor used to be bolted to.
You might even be able to make one from the adjuster bar that was used on the alternator during the AC setup.
The A1 requires a long-necked pully,.. and you might even still have to put a shim under it and stick it out farther to get it to line up with the crank/waterpump.
The A2 setup moves the alternator over closer to the belt, so the neck is shorter.
I don't suggest boring an A1 alternator to fit the A2 swivel bolt, it might make it weak/thin.
The A1 bracket requires the removal of alot of webbing,
in order to rotate the alternator down,
might even make it weak.
The A2 bracket still should get some metal removed,
so you can rotate the alternator as far down as possible,.. so the belt is shorter.
Even remove some from the alternator casing.
I haven't actually run an A2 setup in a Rabbit yet,
the car I'm trying it on should be running soon.
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Thank You for the information.
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I was looking at an A2 90 amp alternator and comparing it my A1 non a/c alt. Other than the mounting ears being in the wrong location and the mentioned 6mm : 8mm pivot bolt, I think I can get it to work; The pulley offset is the same. The mount's hole/sleeve can be drilled out to accomadate the later 8mm bolt. Your biggest issue would be finding a non a/c A1 mount.
The link you posted was in a thread I started a few months back. Last night, I mocked the A2 alt in my car mounted in the A1 non a/c mount. I'm not sure if you need the added bracket that mounts to the top of the alt mount and ties to the mount bracket. I figure if the pump/engine mount bracket will support that side of the engine, the stress from tensioning a belt will be trivial. Replace the one pump bolt with a 12.9 grade and it'll be fine.... most likely overkill.
Making the new alt mounting point bar is simple and adding a nice curvature will give it some cosmetic appeal. Replacing the turnbuckle with a reverse threaded heim joint end link will clean things up, although purely cosmetic, also.
My alt was broken in an accident, so I'll be working on getting the A2 alt mounted. Tensioning the alt from the top will be way better than the stock method. It'll save me about $100, too.
-Todd
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Trying to locate a non/ac MK1 bracket is difficult. MK2 brackets are everywhere in junkyard. I guess what I am going to have to do is get a mk2 bracket, early mk2 alternator or try and find a diesel alternator new or used, take the pulleys from the mk2, and fab some sort of tensioner. I wish someone had a concrete idea on the locating what tensioner I could use instead of me trying to fab something up.
Thanks
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I'm not sure if you need the added bracket that mounts to the top of the alt mount and ties to the mount bracket. I figure if the pump/engine mount bracket will support that side of the engine, the stress from tensioning a belt will be trivial. Replace the one pump bolt with a 12.9 grade and it'll be fine.... most likely overkill.
There might be some other way to support the upper timing belt cover,
I think that's the main reason for that bracket.
I have a post over on vwdieselparts.com that will show you an adjuster bracket option,
that will work even with a MK2 gasser alternator.
In my non-AC conversion for my MK2 Golf.
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Not to muddy the waters, but someone was asking about a tensioner system. This one IS a/c equiped, but I think relevant. I was VERY interested in this and even built one. I eventually am going to serp, but this may help someone in the thread or searching later.
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8173&highlight=belt+tensioner (http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8173&highlight=belt+tensioner)
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm64/glkingdon/PIC00001.jpg)