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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: lord_verminaard on May 04, 2010, 05:30:25 pm
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Ok, need some help here. Obviously I screwed something up.
Here's the short story:
Car originally had a N/A pump on it, worked pretty well, was rebuilt sometime within the past 5 years. Got a good working TD pump (since the car is now a TD) threw it on a couple months ago, worked great.
Well, the pump started leaking. So I got a re-seal kit, removed the pump and went to town. When trying to put on the o-ring seal on the pump head, the seal popped out when I was torquing it down and it snipped the seal in half. Frustrated, I decided to put the TD pump top on the NA bottom half. Figured, while it's out there, go ahead and do the governor mod too. I followed the instructions exactly, put three thin washers on the main spring, everything is peachy. Re-assembled everything, put it back on the car, re-timed it, and as soon as it started, the RPM's took off. I shut the car off immediately. I figured I got the damn throttle lever screwed up. I checked and re-checked it, tried again, same result. I took off the lever completely and manually turned the shaft all the way to the "no throttle" position. Tried again, same result. I took off the pump top (on the car, which sucks, by the way) and checked to see if I got something on backwards or saw anything out of place. Nope, everything looks like it should. Put it back together, this time I backed the max fuel screw out a whole lot. Tried to start- nothing. (this is still with the throttle lever removed and the shaft turned all the way "off". I turned the screw in about two turns, tried to start, and it sputtered a bit, once it got started, the RPM's took off again. RAWR!!! What the hell have I done? At this point, I gave up. This car is lucky that it's not mine, otherwise I would have probably torched it as it sat in the driveway.
If anyone can help me out, that would be great!!!
Thanks,
Brendan
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sounds like something is bound up. Maybe I will see you friday :D. Hope you get it figured out soon, my guess is something with the weights on the shaft.
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Nope, they all moved fine, I checked that. This NA pump bottom had been sitting a little while (couple months) but I closed off the holes and it was full of fuel.
I think what pisses me off the most is that both pumps worked, the only thing I changed was the stupid governor, I did it exactly the way that you are supposed to, and now it doesn't work. It looks like the next thing I'll try is swapping in a stock governor. I'll probably pull the pump, AGAIN, and do it on the bench this time.
What sucks even more is that I needed this car back on the road like last week. Someone wants to look at the Corrado (and maybe buy it) but I really need to get the work done on it SOON. It's actually a good thing that I bought this Audi, we would have been screwed without another car. (4 total, 2 of which work!!!) Of course, the 2 cars that work both need a ton of work done. Rawr.
Brendan
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I have my prothe IP that was on my N/A you could try it out. It ran, the rest of the engine was the problem. I would say you could borrow the Giles pump, but it will be needed soon(hopefully) :D
I bet libby or burn should be able to point you in a better direction. I never had any issues with the gov mods I did.
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I think the problem is: when you did the gov mod, you put the regulator with 3 springs of the TD pump in N/A pump and the N/A pump had only 2 spring... try to put the regulator with spring of N/A pump and shim the big spring of that...
cumps
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Woah, wait- the governor levers are different between TD and NA? You know, I did switch them, one of the two had what appeared to be a stiffer main spring (had more coils) but now I don't remember which was which.
I guess I'll swap them (one is unmodified) and see what happens. Thanks-
Brendan
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How high will it rev? Do you have any control over it?
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There's a point where backing the fuel screw out too far won't let it start and screwing it in too much won't let it idle.
Did you try moving it little tiny bits at all?
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Recently happened to me but moved shaft one spline to cure it. Can you make a td top work on an n/a pump without removing the max fuel limiting pin?
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Burn- I didn't check to see how high it would rev. I'd say (this was a totally cold start, after the car had been sitting for a couple of days) it was like if you just put your foot to the floor and held it there. It was revving fast, so I shut it down immediately. I didn't have any control over it.
rabbitman- I did move the screw some. I had it backed off to the point where it wouldnt start, increased it until it would start but barely run, and increasing it more would make it rev out of control once it got running smoothly.
rolo- I eventually took the throttle lever off completely, and turned the shaft manually to the full "off" position, and got the same result. I did not remove the max fuel limit pin but it didn't look like it would interfere with anything.
I didn't work on it last night and probably won't be able too tonight either, but I am very quickly losing motivation for making it ever run again.
Brendan
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i ahad the same issue with a pump that had been stood, sent it for a reseal and it worked fine, never knew the real cause!
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Update. Got it running yesterday, ended up swapping the NA cover back on the NA pump. Also used the stock governor. When I took the TD top off, I compared the governor's more closely, and they are both completely different. All three springs were different, the little cage was different lengths, they had different pivot positions from the throttle shaft. What's weird though, they were both the same length and the interface point that hooks on to the fueling lever in the pump was the same distance on both. So it still should have worked. Oh well, back to the N/A pump with the weird surge at part throttle. But at least it runs and I don't have to burn it down/part it out/sell it/beat it with a hammer.
Brendan
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awesome. I was hoping you didn't call me for the prothe pump becuase you got it running.
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I'm glad too. :) But thanks for the offer though, I appreciate it.
Brendan
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back to the N/A pump with the weird surge at part throttle.
if you figure out what the "weird surge at part throttle" is, let me know. Mine lunges forward at about 10% throttle.
advanced .99 mm, hardly any smoke at any speed/gear/load.
81 caddy 1.6na.
idles real rough on 30 degree mornings with cold start pulled out
???
I did notice i'm leaking diesel at the back of the IP where one of the hard fuel lines connects and maybe back at the tank because there seems to be dark stains when I park somewhere. I'll be checking the rear lead out tonight... think i've got the front one fixed.
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Well, the throwout bearing on the Audi decided to give up the instant I pulled in to Forward Air's terminal to pick up the spare tranny for it. (typical, sometimes I think these cars are telepathic) So I finished throwing together the Golf last night, (yet again without installing the catch can, not even close to getting the intercooler in there) and drove it to work today. Drives fine, and strangely enough, the surging at low throttle stopped. It still hangs at higher RPM's a little, though not as much as before- and I did take about 1/2 a turn out of the max fuel screw. Runs out of fuel at about 10 psi now. Oh well, the car runs good now and that's all I care about. Now I have a trans swap/timing belt/clutch to do on an Audi Coupe Quattro. Woo-Hoo!
I guess I'll start saving our dimes and come up with a rebuild for this TD pump. I don't really see any other choice.
Brendan