VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: andy2 on November 29, 2005, 02:52:56 pm
-
I just bought a digital camera and I'm not too familar with posting pics etc.. However here is a link containing some pics of my project
www.msnusers.com/gtdforum/shoebox.msnw
I had to pull my head off due to a headgasket failure at 37 psi,I'm sure that my 12.9 grade capscrews were not tight enough though.I then found the cylinder damage that can be seen in the pics also.
-
Thanks for the pics! Looks nice and tight. I would have liked to see the compressor piping between two turbos but I can see what it'd look like anyway.
That sucks about the cylinder scoring. Any idea what might have caused it? Were your cylinders bored before, with overbore pistons installed?
-
That is sweet! :twisted: Too bad about the cylinder damage though :( . Props on the fab as well that intake and downpipe, as well as the turbo setup is straight PIMP. Looks like it might be time for studs and some Edelbrock Gasket goo for the HG.
-
That's pretty cool. Very similar to the concepts I had for a compound setup, but that just goes to show how few fitment options there are for cramming 2 turbos back there. Good work though. :D
-
Looks nice.
-
That was a .5mm oversive Bore/pistons :cry:.We actually went a half thou
over spec for the bore already.I hope another half thou will clean up 90% of the damage.I could then just get new rings and slap it back together hopefully.I was running my EGT's a little past 1500 for a little too long :twisted: .This occured when I was using a G meter to check 1/4 mile times which BTW with some traction problems in 1st and 2nd got 14.88@97mph :wink:.2700lbs+14.88=159hp I believe.
-
i like number 4 the best, nice pics Andy
"save-as, set as backround"
Jeff
-
Hey Andy whats you oil feed/return detail like?
-
Thanks for the pics, Andy... very nice work indeed! :twisted:
Sorry to hear about your wall scoring setback. Did you eventually figure out how much to torque the 12.9 bolts?
-
man i like you pic...sorry about the block and piston damage..i was jsut going to post hight egts as the culprit ..scans down the thread and thats what you said too ha... piston swelling up etc..when you mention rehoning and new rings..did you get to save th epsitons?..that looks like a lot of psiton scuffing to fix with scotchbrite and a razor?...i had to taek 3 engines apart to build this last 1.6 TD as most of em were scuffed ..and other engine problems..but heck 1 from 3 isn't too bad ha...what head gasket are you running?..the 1.9L metal one? . it blow at 37psi huh?..let use know..as i know of at least 2 compound setups that will be running before the spring..mine and blakes hopefully... thanks
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!
-
man i like you pic...sorry about the block and piston damage..i was jsut going to post hight egts as the culprit ..scans down the thread and thats what you said too ha... piston swelling up etc..when you mention rehoning and new rings..did you get to save th epsitons?..that looks like a lot of psiton scuffing to fix with scotchbrite and a razor?...i had to taek 3 engines apart to build this last 1.6 TD as most of em were scuffed ..and other engine problems..but heck 1 from 3 isn't too bad ha...what head gasket are you running?..the 1.9L metal one? . it blow at 37psi huh?..let use know..as i know of at least 2 compound setups that will be running before the spring..mine and blakes hopefully... oh and what size exhuat housing is the holset?..
thanks
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!
-
Pistons are all reuseable :wink:,Just need to rebore and get a set of rings.
The oil returns both go to the oil pan,and the supply is pretty neat.We put a 14mm thread where the 12mm thread was in the housing and used a 14mm banjo fitting for the bigger line then drilled and tapped 12mm ontop of the 14mm bolt for the smaller line :wink:.
If I'll stick with the capscrews I would torque them down to 110ft lbs they are rated for 118ft lbs max.
-
Any pics of the oil reurns? Where did oyu tap in for an extra oil feed? Are you happy with the k24 turbine and k14 compressor to the holset hx30? Were you worried about the k24 compressor not spooling quick enough? If you were going to do it over again would you change the turbos or positioning? And last of all does that turbo clear the rain tray? Sorry for all the questions that looks like a pretty fun setup :twisted:
-
I added some more pics for you guys.I like the way this setup works and I wouldn't change a thing it fits prefectly and as mentioned before has good firewall/raintray clearance.Theres a company "PDR" that makes 3 different sized twin setups for the 5.9 cummins as DVST8R probably knows.Anyways in comparison I would say my setup is medium in size.It could be done smaller or bigger than mine in reality depends what your HP goals are.If you want a very streetable daily driver my setup is perfect IMO.Bruce AKA QuickTD helped me size it up so he might take a guess on what psi this setup is good for,ID say probably 40-45.BTW The intercooler in the pic is from a 6L powerstroke,I may fab up some endtanks for it :twisted:.
-
Yup I know PDR, and there twin setup's well :wink:, I think the ford intercooler with "proper" end tanks would be a sweet addition.
-
I just added some more pics to the link.I'll let them do the talking :lol:
-
:) :) :) very nice :) :) :)
I want a holset
Joe
-
The bores look much better now :) interesting head+precup decking pics too
-
Do you have access to your own mill? If so your a lucky guy, I sure with I had a nice lathe and mill, one day... Looks great andy, keep up the good work. Oh how are you supplying all that fuel for that much air? Giles custom pump I assume? Have you done any head porting or thought about a bigger/better intake manifold?
-
I do have access to a couple lathes and mills in our basement and much much more as well as someone who knows how to operate them properly :lol:,Oh the benifits of staying at home 8) .You guessed it Giles pump for fueling needs.I've done quite a bit of head porting as well as that we plan on modding the intake for the the rebuild.
I've currently been looking for a proper AAZ headgasket,The Aftermarket doesn't seem to make one thats quite as good as the OEM one.Aftermarket ones are simply shims that are stacked together and the OEM has an aditional thin (.002") layer that wraps around the fire ring of the gasket making it impossible for any leakage between the gasket's layers unlike the aftermarket ones.I'll bite the bullet and pay extra for the real deal.Not saying that the aftermarket ones are not good enough, just that they are not as bomb proof shall we say :twisted:
-
I like the way this setup works and I wouldn't change a thing
Upon closer inspection of the k14 compressor housing/wheel I,m now thinking its a little on the small side for the hx30 to flow through it properly so to be safe I'll stick the k24 compressor back on.I figure it will spool as good anyways :roll:
-
andy
All I have to say is that is one kick ass setup. Are you going to aftercool the first stage turbo before feeding the next stage?
What are the peak pressure ratios of each turbo for your designed flow rate?
-
Thanks, One big FMIC should do the trick,plumbing is tricky as it is let alone having two IC's
Basically to make 35psi boost It takes about 40psi (exhaust) drive pressure overall,I will probably do more testing in the future as things keep changing :twisted:.I had a very undeseriable rad hose Plumbing with way to many leaks as well as a leaking IC,So with a nice IC and proper plumbing It could be closer to a 1:1 overall pressure ratio.The k24's boost is regulated to 10psi so after the ported wastgate opens fully it does a good job of bypassing the needed flow the the hx30.
-
Thanks, One big FMIC should do the trick,plumbing is tricky as it is let alone having two IC's
Basically to make 35psi boost It takes about 40psi (exhaust) drive pressure overall,I will probably do more testing in the future as things keep changing :twisted:.I had a very undeseriable rad hose Plumbing with way to many leaks as well as a leaking IC,So with a nice IC and proper plumbing It could be closer to a 1:1 overall pressure ratio.The k24's boost is regulated to 10psi so after the ported wastgate opens fully it does a good job of bypassing the needed flow the the hx30.
oh I see now what your trying to do. What I was asking is if turbo 1 has a PR of 2 or 14.7 PSI and turbo 2 has a PR of 2 your combined boost is 44.1 PSI. 2*2=4-1=3*14.7=44.1.
I thought your wastgate plumbing looked a bit confusing but now it makes sense, your not going after HUGE boost.
-
your not going after HUGE boost.
Well I would'nt say that,I've lowered compression down to 18.5:1 :twisted:.I'm going to get this engine to produce as much power as I can safely get out of it, If I need 40-45psi then so be it.
-
your not going after HUGE boost.
Well I would'nt say that,I've lowered compression down to 18.5:1 :twisted:.I'm going to get this engine to produce as much power as I can safely get out of it, If I need 40-45psi then so be it.
this may be of some use. http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml
use an AFR between 18 and 22, and adjust the specific fuel comsumption to get stock power then play with the boost.
-
Yeah as you've probably gathered I'm no turbo expert :oops:.
BTW thanks for website,I havn't seen one that detailed yet :wink:
I had roughly 140-145 WHP before,so it will be interesting to see what happens next.
-
Yeah as you've probably gathered I'm no turbo expert :oops:.
BTW thanks for website,I havn't seen one that detailed yet :wink:
I had roughly 140-145 WHP before,so it will be interesting to see what happens next.
You should get ahold of Tdimister he has done a bunch more engine analyis than me, and gave me that URL. Do you by chance know someone that could adapt the not2fast calc to support staged turbos?
IE break it down like his format for each stage and allow adding an intercooler and water injection for each stage. or make it modular like have it ask how many boost stages and such.
Also play with the water injection option.
-
Andy's setup has controls on both turbo's, so sizing is not as critical as in a free running compound setup. Of course, you have to give up a tiny bit of efficiency for ease of tuning. In checking the boost/backpressure ratios and substituting the K24 turbine for the K14 he has almost achieved 1:1 boost/backpressure ratio and nearly the same pressure ratio across each turbo. I would call that exceptionally good sizing. I'm not sure that computer analysis will make it much better.
-
I've actually made an excel spreadsheet for calculating compound twin turbo sizing while accounting for intercooling and aftercooling. Most of the parameters are able to be changed.
I sized things out for my own car and bought another turbo but am not quite yet ready to get that on there. It looks like with the stock turbo and a 60 trim T3 I should be efficient all the way down to around 20 or so and up to about 105 psi. Here is the second turbo I will be using
(http://www.tdtuning.com/pictures/turbonium.jpg)
I don't think I will intercool it and just run a single aftercooler due to space and plumbing restrictions. So much boost can be generated that I see no reason to look for every single advantage there is to be had.
-
I've actually made an excel spreadsheet for calculating compound twin turbo sizing while accounting for intercooling and aftercooling. Most of the parameters are able to be changed.
I sized things out for my own car and bought another turbo but am not quite yet ready to get that on there. It looks like with the stock turbo and a 60 trim T3 I should be efficient all the way down to around 20 or so and up to about 105 psi. Here is the second turbo I will be using
(http://www.tdtuning.com/pictures/turbonium.jpg)
I don't think I will intercool it and just run a single aftercooler due to space and plumbing restrictions. So much boost can be generated that I see no reason to look for every single advantage there is to be had.
Yes I agreee on making the plumbing simple, but I'm concerned (perhaps needlessly) with the final turbo outlet temps.
an example of an extreme measure can be taken to after cool the air charge that was poo pooed on TDIclub is to use utilize waste heat via an absortion cooler.
-
I had a relatively small ford IC and it actually did an great job of cooling down the air from both turbos,it really suprised me as I thought it would have been to small for two turbos worth of heat.I jammed through the gears from a dead stop and without downshifting I just jammed on the brakes jumped out and grabbed both pipes.I could only touch the pre IC pipe for a second it was that hot,then I grabbed the Post IC pipe and to my suprise it wasn't much hotter than the intake air pipe.
-
I just bought a digital camera and I'm not too familar with posting pics etc.. However here is a link containing some pics of my project
www.msnusers.com/gtdforum/shoebox.msnw
I had to pull my head off due to a headgasket failure at 37 psi,I'm sure that my 12.9 grade capscrews were not tight enough though.I then found the cylinder damage that can be seen in the pics also.
dumb question does the exhaust normaly exit on the passener side on a 1.6L TD?
-
It usually exits on the driver side.It was a little tricky to fit a 2.5" downpipe on the passenger side between the motor mount and the bottom turbo with that elbow/adaptor though.I was tempted to cut a hole in my hood and run it up through.I'm pretty sure the 2.5" is big enough and I'll do a restriction test to see if it cuts It.
-
It usually exits on the driver side.It was a little tricky to fit a 2.5" downpipe on the passenger side between the motor mount and the bottom turbo with that elbow/adaptor though.I was tempted to cut a hole in my hood and run it up through.I'm pretty sure the 2.5" is big enough and I'll do a restriction test to see if it cuts It.
2.5" should be plunty, 3.5" is stock on the 6.6L Duramax 4" for upgrades.
I think the stock 1Z TDI is 2.25".
-
vwmike
Do you still have the excell app?
-
Yes I do. I'd like to finalize a couple small things on it though before hosting it. I'm sure all of you would be interested to see it.
-
*
-
PCP>injector pop pressure=very bad!
Two questions what are the peak cylinder pressures with more than 35PSIG boost and fuel to match, and what is the pop pressure for the IDI injector?
-
PCP>injector pop pressure=very bad!
I don't see this being an issue, other than it would reduce the quality of fuel atomization under heavy load. The fuel must be injected, the pump is positive displacement. No matter what the cylinder pressure the fuel is going in, or the pump will be destroyed.
If youre worried about backflow of combustion gasses into the fuel system, don't. The cylinder pressure would have to be several times the injector pop pressure to open an injector, the surface area of the pintle that is exposed to cylinder pressure is far less than that exposed to the fuel pressure. Even if the cylinder pressure were high enough to open an injector, the pressure wave would also have to somehow blast through the delivery valve to ever reach the pump internals, impossible under even the most extreme circumstances.
-
...what is the pop pressure for the IDI injector?
IIRC,
130 bar (1900 psi) for n/a engines
150 bar (2200 psi) for turbo engines
-
Just an update on my project.
We lowered the compression down further from 21.1:1(3 notch HG) to 18.5:1 by installing GM 6.2L pre cups in my 1.9 head.I had done some research on various GM diesel precups finding that there are about 2 different ones for 6.5td and about 3 different ones for both 6.5/6.2 N/A.One of the more rare 6.2 precups had the same outlet shape orientation as our 1.6/1.9 ones :twisted:.We took about a 1/16" from the OD and height on the 6.2 cups as they were thick and tall.We also took about 1/16" from the chambers in the head.Then done some rurther porting to match things up.
I got the turbine housings,exh manifold,pistons,etc creamic coated.I fineally got my total seal rings.I've got the complete k24 reassembled rarther than the k14/k24 hybrid.Done some porting on both compressor housings.I've got a nice bar and plate IC(overall dia 25"x10"x2.5" with 2.5" in/out ports.This engine/IC will go into my new project car 94 golf.
The only major set back now is that I,ve got three out of four con rods bent #2 being the worst It was .025 thou above the deck before and now the rod is twisted and squished down to the point where the piston is below the deck at TDC.Numbers 2 and 3 seem to be the worst,#'s 1,4 are almost fine :?.This I believe is proof as we all well know that the OEM intake manifold gives better flow to #'s 2 and 3 and thats why they broke down first.We will be making some sort of intake to fix the flow issue :twisted:.
I had the 1.9 up to 37 psi boost and the only reason I pulled it apart was to replace a leaking HG.Not beacuse there was any hint whatsoever of a rod(s) being bent,it ran smooth At idle and fired up in the cold on all four :?
Basically now need some sort of better rods.Any ideas?I heard that in the sixties they use to weld supports onto OEM rods before the aftermarket made any :lol:.The 1Z/AHU TDI's use the same dimention rods but I wonder If they are really any different/better at all?
I really sould update more often :oops:
-
very very interesting that you have bent rods..mummn no water ever got ingested or something?....damn i had 35 psi single turbo...before..i want to do my new mech tdi caddy up with a set of twins soon..kkk24 and a hy35 holset.... not looking forward to breaking teh rods or blowing teh headgasket...onanothger note tahstcool you figured out a way to make te gm precups fit..do you have apart # or pics of this before and after?
thnaks, keep up the good work.
Deo
-
Bent rods, that's crazy! :? Congrats you're the first I know of to do that in an IDI because of too much boost! Good call on lowering the CR! :P
We lowered the compression down further from 21.1:1(3 notch HG) to 18.5:1 by installing GM 6.2L pre cups in my 1.9 head. ...
We took about a 1/16" from the OD and height on the 6.2 cups as they were thick and tall.We also took about 1/16" from the chambers in the head.Then done some rurther porting to match things up.
Awesome!! :)
-
ya andy, great work. clever use of the GM parts... can't wait to get a ride in the new beast.
-
Andy,
What is your starting like on an IDI with such low compression. Excellent acheivment making the GM parts work. If you can get it to start reliably with that compression ratio thats great.
Let us know. Any chance of a few images of the compound setup ? Exhaust manifold / header, pipework. thanks,
Matt
-
Isn't there already a link to the image gallery from the first post of this thread? Unless you were asking for more specific pictures..
-
Mark,
The images on the link dont work. Also, why does Giles not reply to e-mails regarding pump re-builds >?
Thanks, Matt
-
The link should work now,I'm not too good with this kind of stuff :oops:.
-
(http://x10.putfile.com/3/6719510947-thumb.jpg) (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/6719510947.jpg&s=x10)
I lost the casting part# for the 6.2 head that I got the precups from but will get it soon.The particular precups I used have the "small" square marking as per application,They are somewhat rare but should't be too hard to come by.I would'nt hesitate to use other types of 6.2/6.5td precups either,basically just what you can find.
My dad and I designed the manifold and he made it.
Editing: due to me learing how to upload pics fineally :oops:
-
Mark,
why does Giles not reply to e-mails regarding pump re-builds >?
Thanks, Matt
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3100
-
(http://x10.putfile.com/3/8018224686-thumb.jpg) (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8018224686.jpg&s=x10)
(http://x10.putfile.com/3/8018271533-thumb.jpg) (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8018271533.jpg&s=x10)
Some more pics from the latest develpoments,Once again my dads handy work.
-
OMFG that is a sweet main girdle.I'm assuming you made it ?
I'll be the first to order one if you care to make another. :D
What are you using for rods ?
-
Yes my dad made it,He's got quite intrested in the project needless to say.
The rods are from the PD100 engine,Thats the only version of PD we have in north Amreica.Both the PD130,150 rods are different again,so the 100 rods was my best OEM option.
The Girdle is actually sunk down into the block 3/4 of its thickness,we machined the caps down and made notches on the sides or them that lined up with the plate for aditional strength,its also a nice tight fit all the way around the in the block.The gridle was torqued down and then we got the block line bored.The main bearings showed signs of uneven wear and the center journal was out of line too much.I also had uneven piston potrusion before due to the crank sitting on a .004 thou slant(from cyl1-4).
-
So HOT!!! Andy you never cease to amaze, and to bring it to a whole new level! :twisted: 8)
-
Looking good Andy! Can't wait to drop by and check out the progress
-
where can i go to get my compression checked?? and approx. how much would it cost?
-
Any good diesel or VW (make sure they know diesels !) shop should be able to do it.The hardest part is getting the injectors out.Princess auto sells a diesel compression tester,and the injector removal sockets if you want to attempt it yourself.The tools would probably cost less than paying a shop to do it.
Normally I charge $120 for a compression test,plus parts.Make sure you "(or they) replace the injector seals when replacing the injectors,they are one time use only.You may have to pay additional if the injectors are siezed or difficult to remove.
-
i may look into getting my own tools. because i am getting my own shop at the new house. will the compression tools be good for any diesel engine? for example a detroit diesel?
-
It comes with 4 adapters,that do VW,Cummins,and a few others.
I'd suggest buying the tools,you could always sell them and recoup the cost.
-
Any more compound updates?
-
that girdle is nice,but,the vw block is so strong,,look how far the crank is shoved up in there,known as a "deep skirted" engine,,usually,only weak crap like chevys and stuff need them,,see how a chev crank is almost on the outside of the block??? but thas ok,, overkill can b e cool especially when it works for you,not against you,,,,,,,do you think you were having a problem with block flex????
-
I imagine that that girdle will help keep the crank in check under high boost pressures, because he machined down the main caps there is more sureface area that is being clamped down now. The intake manifold, well I would just put it on a flow bench before I tried that to make sure you are getting even air flow across your ports, I would agree its gonna be better than the stock, but when you are playing with high boost you want your intake as even as possible.
-
We just figured that putting a girdle in could't hurt.The mains did move before causing the crank to run hard on the middle journal's bearings to the point where the crank was hard to turn with "new" bearings and mains torqued down.
Sure the manifold Isn't the best that could be made by someone,but making one "better flowing" probably would't help much.I think it will flow about 100% better than what I had :D.
Not too far off starting the engine just waiting for some things like an Hy35 etc.Someone was looking for an Hx30 so I didn't rufuse the cash toward's the proper turbo for my project.I believe the hx30's compresor was way too small to flow the kind hp I was and will be making.I don't really know much about turbos/sizing so it was kind of a trial and error process :oops:.In fact I believe the housing was restrictive enough that it was pulling oil out or the turbo in 35+ psi cases :shock:,Also causing higher Egt's too probably.
I'll post some pics of the assembly in the car when the Hy arrives.
-
Andy I think you are on the right track man, Thats why for the compounds I am building I am using hy35's, are yous till planning on running the stock k24 as your small? Yeah man taht girdle is tight, they are great for keeping the cranks in place. And yeah that intake manifold is a lot better than stock, but what isn't :lol: they are pretty brutal. Get taht custom cam in there and get her all buttoned up I wanna see this thing rip
-
Yep running the k24 with the hy35.I don't want to push this engine until its broke in again.I'm definitely looking forwward to some back to back comparisons like 9 vs 12mm heads and your stg 3 cam vs stock.Should be interesting to see how the 18.5:1 precup's work too.Then some bigger nozzles,Too much to do :D.
-
:o Big project, man. Keep it up. :)
-
So besides the "up-pipe", what supports are used for the big turbo? A couple support brackets or something?
-
Nice work on that girdle!
I have been working on a similar thing. But I ran in to this problem, the main crank bearing lost its shape. The holes for the crank in the block got oval (not round..) they lost 0.1mm vertical, and increased in diameter 0.1mm horisontal. This vertical can easily be linehoned (grinded). But the problem is that because it got wider the bearings wont sit just right.
How hard did you torque it down? I followed the bentley manual..65nm + 1/4 rev
-
So besides the "up-pipe", what supports are used for the big turbo? A couple support brackets or something?
Theres one support running from the side of the block to the "up pipe" thing.I had no problems before with that setup,however now that I've up sized both turbo's I may need another support :wink:
-
Nice work on that girdle!
I have been working on a similar thing. But I ran in to this problem, the main crank bearing lost its shape. The holes for the crank in the block got oval (not round..) they lost 0.1mm vertical, and increased in diameter 0.1mm horisontal. This vertical can easily be linehoned (grinded). But the problem is that because it got wider the bearings wont sit just right.
How hard did you torque it down? I followed the bentley manual..65nm + 1/4 rev
Thanks,Is your block an AAZ also?I'm begining to think this center journal movement etc is very common :?I guess with any aaz block its almost a must to get it line bored(not honed :x ) for rebuilding.The old bearing's must gradually wear as the block distorts,thats why the new bearing are causing the crank to be tight?I've heard of some rebuilt engines having center journal problems before,aaz's as well.
I installed 12.9 grade capscrews and using moly lube I torqued them to 50 ft lbs and didn't have any issues with that.
-
if main bores are gettin funny,it could have been run low on oil,leading to hi oil temps, itll actually try to"curl" the caps :cry:
-
Yeah I have seen the mains lose their shape before, I'll be cncing soem girdles out along witha few other tricks to keep the cranks straight on the crazy motors :twisted:
-
Yes AAZ.
So you have run the engine with that girdle?
50lb/ft is about 65nm.
My manual says angle tighten also by 90 degrees. Did you skipp that? And it works?
I've also used 12.9 bolts. When I use 50lb/ft force it works fine but that last 90 degree messes it all up.
The problem that we've had is that the main bearing (thing that bolts to the block) cracks and then the crank and pistons sits nicely in the oil pan...
-
Yes, 50 ft lbs final torque with the 12.9 capscrews also that was without the girdle.Running 37 psi boost it made enough power to bend rods and no main bolts were loose when I took it apart.Stock rods can basically take double the hp(145-155) before they bend :twisted:.
-
is it going your car going to creap out soon andy? my engine is going in , in a couple days the old one is already out. :D Maybe we can do some comparison driving later 1.6 vs 1.9.... Cant rely on the doc getting his stuff done anytime soon... (lol)
Jeff
-
i don't think andy's 1.9 is much of a platform for comparison...not as far as your typical 1.9 :lol: - that thing is gonna haul ass. great work andy can't wait to see it on the street! :shock:
-
I would agree, there is no comparing andy's ride to anything else. It pulled as hard in 5th at 100mph as mine does in 2nd at 20mph. It promises to be even stronger this time around...
-
Not too far off running
(http://f5.putfile.com/5/12317064757-thumb.jpg) (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12317064757.jpg&s=f5)
The "into" intercooler pipe will be running under the tranny/engine,still need to get IC piping welded up.I'll post anther pic when the HY35 arrives,Not much room back there so it should be interesting.
-
Looks great, what airbox is that and I'm curious as to know if you flow-tested your intake manifold?
Cheers,
Mark
-
nice setup man.... still wanna give him a go though.
-
Never even thought about flow testing it,until yourself and 935racer brought that up?If i could get it done somewhere around here now would be the time to do it :wink:.
If the engine holds together I don't want to push it over 210hp as the rods would likely bend/break again.It will move well I'm sure,if I could get into the high 13's/low 14's reliably I'd be happy.My car is going to be quite heavy when compared to others so to make it that quick it takes lots of power.I will definitey have to take it to the track and dyno after break-in.
BTW malone the air box is from a 94-02 dodge diesel.That specific turbo I'm using only comes on 00-02 dodge diesel with auto trans only.
-
I have a good HY-35 off coming off a 2001 Cummins soon,if you need one.
-
How soon :D ,That may work for me as I'm buying a brand new one after endless searches for a good used one :cry:.I guess when people upgrade they just throw the old turbo in thier garage to rot away :?.
-
Andy,
I haven't been able to see the pictures you linked to (web filter at work), but your description of the cylinder scuffing is the classical symptom of lubrication failure due to overly high PCPs. As you know, the rings are forced radially outward for a firm seal on the cylinder bores by gas pressure. Too much gas pressure --> too much radial force on the rings against the cylinders --> high contact pressure --> lubrication failure.
I would suggest that you try gapless rings on BOTH rings, contrary to the suggestion of some... If there is the option, you should consider low-tension rings and a material high-stiffness (i.e., NOT cast iron, again somewhat of a contrary advice) to resist radial expansion under gas pressure. And use a highly shear stable synthetic motor oil. You may need more viscosity. Amsoil HDD 10W-40 might just be the ticket.
Ceramic coat all the combustion chamber surfaces and drop that CR as much as possible.
One last thing: do you REALLY need 37 PSI of boost to burn the amount of fuel you throw at it? How good is your intercooling? Ever consider water injection and/or nitrous?
Even though your rods and crank are holding up at the moment, fatigue manifests over a long period of time. ... have you taken a look at your bottom-end bearings?
-
As a part time engineer on this project, I'll field a couple of these...
Andy,
I haven't been able to see the pictures you linked to (web filter at work), but your description of the cylinder scuffing is the classical symptom of lubrication failure due to overly high PCPs. As you know, the rings are forced radially outward for a firm seal on the cylinder bores by gas pressure. Too much gas pressure --> too much radial force on the rings against the cylinders --> high contact pressure --> lubrication failure.
The bore scuffing was distinctly one sided, the thrust side to be specific. The skirt of the piston showed scuffing and partial loss of the anti-friction coating. I think its pretty safe to say the scuffing was purely a result of piston thrust.
Ring scuffing, in my experience, is always immediately fatal. In searching for the magic "zero ring gap" on a couple of motocross bike engines, I have had the ring ends butt together at high temperature and cause the engine to sieze. Same mechanism as you're suggesting, but brought about by pressure due to lack of ring end gap. The engine will often come free after the ring contracts but the scuffed iron will immediately re-seize as soon as the engine is started, not the case with andy's motor.
I would suggest that you try gapless rings on BOTH rings, contrary to the suggestion of some... If there is the option, you should consider low-tension rings and a material high-stiffness (i.e., NOT cast iron, again somewhat of a contrary advice) to resist radial expansion under gas pressure.
Gapless rings would tend to make the ring scuffing problem, if it exists, worse. With little leakage past the top ring all the pressure is carried by it alone. With standard rings the leakage past the top ring is sufficient to load the second ring and the pressure is somewhat shared between them. Cast iron is the best material for rings, particularly when scuffing or marginal lubrication is a concern, I would stick with it. Lubrication might be an issue. 2 stoke detroit diesels are famous for piston scuffing. The detroit "fix" is to run straight weight dino oils in 30 or 40 grades as they typically have the highest HT/HS viscosity. Food for thought?
drop that CR as much as possible.
Done.
One last thing: do you REALLY need 37 PSI of boost to burn the amount of fuel you throw at it? How good is your intercooling? Ever consider water injection and/or nitrous?
Intercooling is much improved this time around. Anybody that says high boost is bad hasn't tried it. :D Nitrous is just cheating.
Even though your rods and crank are holding up at the moment, fatigue manifests over a long period of time. ... have you taken a look at your bottom-end bearings?
The 1.9TD crank is the same as the AHU TDI, save for the sensor wheel. The rods this time around are from the PD. Electron deposition coated anti-fatigue upper bearings are installed in the rods. Standard VW aluminum main bearings will stand anything, no sweat there. The block has been girdled for improved stability.
-
The bore scuffing was distinctly one sided, the thrust side to be specific. The skirt of the piston showed scuffing and partial loss of the anti-friction coating. I think its pretty safe to say the scuffing was purely a result of piston thrust.
After finally seeing the pictures for myself, I think I'm a bit more qualified now to comment than I was earlier. You're right, Bruce, the scuffing looks distinctly loaded on the trust sides of the pistons. I still stand by my believe that it was PCP-related. Very high gas pressures act on the head and basically want to push the head off the block surface, with only the head bolts/studs holding them down. This tensile load is transfered down the bolts and are taken up by the engine block, and this causes the bore to distort. Of couse, there is a combination of several things that cause bore distortion; I'm mentioning just one.
How do you reduce side thrust, or ultimately prevent scuffing in the future? Offset piston pins can help for one. I believe some of the newer VW engines have this feature. I don't know if blank crowns are available. When I was working at FEV a few years ago, I was aware that they bought Mahle piston blanks that were basically the same ones that go into the TDI, but had a flat crown and no bowl or other pattern machined into them yet. I donno if anyone has the contacts to get something like that.
Second is to just not run such high PCPs. Bore distortion is a very real phenomenon, and that's one of the reasons why PCPs have an upper ceiling. The ALH design limit is 155 bar and 130 bar for the 1Z/AHU TDI. I would hazard that the AAZ would be the same or lower than the 1Z/AHU. I would also estimate that Andy's setup would more than double that figure, albeit in short bursts.
Ring scuffing, in my experience, is always immediately fatal. In searching for the magic "zero ring gap" on a couple of motocross bike engines, I have had the ring ends butt together at high temperature and cause the engine to sieze. Same mechanism as you're suggesting, but brought about by pressure due to lack of ring end gap. The engine will often come free after the ring contracts but the scuffed iron will immediately re-seize as soon as the engine is started, not the case with andy's motor.
Zero-gap rings technically still have "gaps" because they have step-butted-ends. Seizure is most often due to the butted end gaps not being proper to begin with, not an inherent design flaw of zero-gap rings.
Gapless rings would tend to make the ring scuffing problem, if it exists, worse. With little leakage past the top ring all the pressure is carried by it alone. With standard rings the leakage past the top ring is sufficient to load the second ring and the pressure is somewhat shared between them. Cast iron is the best material for rings, particularly when scuffing or marginal lubrication is a concern, I would stick with it. Lubrication might be an issue. 2 stoke detroit diesels are famous for piston scuffing. The detroit "fix" is to run straight weight dino oils in 30 or 40 grades as they typically have the highest HT/HS viscosity. Food for thought?
The second compression ring does very little of the gas sealing work; rather as you correctly say, it reduces the pressure drop across the first ring. In some racing applications, the second ring is either made very low tension and thin or totally dispensed with.
However, the reduced pressure drop due to the contribution of the second-ring, I would say, is relatively small compared to the overall magnitudes of pressures that the top-side of the top ring experiences, and would primarily affect the axial loading of the rings on the piston grooves and not the radial loading on the cylinder. Here I'm looking at both rings as a pair, but concerned only with the top ring. If you have a given 250 bar on the top of the top ring, I would argue that it makes very little difference whether the pressure under the top ring is atmospheric (hypothetical extreme case if the second ring weren't there at all), or a couple of bars.
As for material, yes, the consensus is that good ol' cast iron is ideal for non-plated rings. However, OEM VW rings (at least one or both of the compression rings) are chrome plated, and the tribological surface is the chrome plating and the cylinder, not the base cast iron material. Anyway, I agree that VW has as good OE rings as anyone anywhere, and it would not make sense to try to second-guess them. I think it was Deo who said that Total-Seal simply reworked OEM rings, and if one were so inclined to go overkill on the rings, that might be the route to take.
Intercooling is much improved this time around. Anybody that says high boost is bad hasn't tried it. :D Nitrous is just cheating.
Well, respectly fully I have to disagree here. Any more boost than is required to burn up all the fuel you plan on dumping while aiming for minimal smoke and having decent EGTs only adds to more needless stress to the engine and, in the final analysis, no extra HP made. Note: Please don't misunderstand what I just said! Consider the whole statement rather than just the last 4 words. Do you disagree?
OK, I grant you nitrous is out of the discussion. :)
The 1.9TD crank is the same as the AHU TDI, save for the sensor wheel. The rods this time around are from the PD. Electron deposition coated anti-fatigue upper bearings are installed in the rods. Standard VW aluminum main bearings will stand anything, no sweat there. The block has been girdled for improved stability.
The PD rods make the one beside it look a twig! And if these are PD100 rods, I hear the PD150 ones are even stronger!
My question stands: have the bearings been looked at? :)
Cheers,
Dave
-
I do know how gapless rings work, I was just using my "butted ring gap" failure as an example of the kind of damage that occurs during a ring siezure. I'm not sure how the scuffing problem could be remedied. A bit more piston clearance was used this time around as well as a different coating on the skirts. Piston thrust is directly proportional to cylinder pressure and torque, so cutting back on the torque would be the only surefire way to reduce it.
The compression is in the 18-19:1 range due to the larger prechambers that were fitted so cylinder pressure will be similar or slightly lower than (due to prechamber throttling) to a stock TDI shortblock at equivalent boost/power level.
I don't disagree about running high boost for the sake of it, but as you know, to create ever higher power, you must use more fuel which in turn requires more boost (or better "quality" boost) to burn it. The compound setup delivers good quality boost.
You seem to be under the impression that an andy's engine couldn't possibly make use of the kind of air that 35psi provides, fact is it would like more... :D EGT's and smoke were still fairly high with 35psi. I would think that increasing the rate of injection via a larger plunger it should be possible to make similar power with a bit less boost. It may also be possible to lower the PCP at the same time by taking out a bit of timing advance. More testing will tell...
-
lol I don't intend to come across as a smart aleck, Bruce. Tis all in a good technical debate. :)
-
lol I don't intend to come across as a smart aleck
Yeah, but I AM a smart aleck, and I don't care for you calling me on it... :lol:
Tis all in a good technical debate.
Indeed, keep it coming... I can't argue with my GF, she just leaves the room, I NEED an outlet... :D
-
I'm hoping that the 12mm head will turn that smoke into useable power and as well as that 35-37 psi would probably be enough to produce 200hp IMO.Without adding more fuel I believe a good 15-25 hp alone will be gained with all thats been improved,That would be somewhere around 180 hp.
The PD100 rods were the best "bolt on" option I had, they will hold a little above 200hp but by how much nore??
As Bruce mentioned we have a little more piston to cylinder wall clearance this time around which will help.After the engine is broke in I will use a good synthetic oil like Elf.Also a contrubiting part of the damage was probably due to high engine oil temp and non synthetic oil.This time around I've got a temp gauge and a nice oil cooler rarther than the factory heat exchanger.EGT's will likely drop considerably with all the mods thats been done too.As long as the pyro does't sit too long at 1500 deg by the end of the track and I have Whatever hp I won't bother trying to get more power as I have more control this time around, I think :twisted:
-
(http://f5.putfile.com/6/15415041978-thumb.jpg) (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/15415041978.jpg&s=f5)
Fineally a pic of it all back together!We may have some HY spoolage problems,I'll keep you all posted on that issue as I figure out whats happening.I dynoed the car this weekend running 30 psi on k24 only.
161.7 WHP @4060 rpm
225.7 ft-lbs@3445 rpm
Heres the link from the dyno GTG
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3940
-
Good dyno run! Thats the highest LEGIT dyno run I have seen for an IDI vw so far! Get some more fuel and my custom cam in there man! So whats the verdict on the hy? Too big? Or is ther another issue causing lack of spool? Whats your backpressure like on pre k24 and than pre HY? How much boost are you running on the k24?
-
I'm testing the hy tomarrow night,as well as setting up the k24's wastegate to open at 20 psi.Then some more fuel :twisted:
-
I am a compound newbie - when the K24 wastegate opens, it dumps into the HY to help it spool, correct?
-
Thats correct.
-
I'm testing the hy tomarrow night,as well as setting up the k24's wastegate to open at 20 psi.Then some more fuel :twisted:
I love your project and congrats on getting it running! I like your approach of letting the K24 stay in its' best efficiency range and giving all that extra energy to the HY. I think if you stay in it a little longer, it'll spool :D
-
Hey andy, wanna race to see who can get a dyno sheet with over 200WHP? Nothin bettin on it, just bragging rights :twisted: I think you havea good head start though, I dont even get my pistons back from cermaic coating until friday :( And I still need to get my total seal rings.
-
The hy spools just fine,With some more setup It'll work better.
200 WHP bragging rights :).Don't worry I'll probably wait for you to catch up as I'd like my engine to last a little while.Still though 40 hp more is not to far out of reach just cross you fingers hoping that she'll hold together :twisted:.
-
so was it just a matter of getting the wastegate to come on sooner or add more fuel or what???
Ps for fuel I got a 14mm head commin :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
-
t6his shall be rather interesting. so can you feel any extra power with it starting to spool now?noticeable?
-
200 WHP bragging rights :).Don't worry I'll probably wait for you to catch up as I'd like my engine to last a little while.
What do you guys think are the weak links? You have a custom girdle, right? PD rods? You think the headgasket is the weak link now, even with those head studs you have, or something else?
-
Its hard to say now what the weakest link might be,Time will tell probably :roll:.I spiked the k24 at 37 psi without and headgasket leakage.
I have some disapointing news about the twins :(.They are just not working right.It seems that the k24 compressor just isn't big enough to allow proper flow of the hy through it.After endless testing with wastegate and fueling,monitoring egts and 2 boost gauges I have figured the only way to make good boost and "extreme" hp Is to run the hy as a single turbo.
The hy spools alot better than I first expected.Its not far off the k24/t3 by any means,espically when the exhaust is directed to it through in a custom header.
The "proper" sizing of twins Is still a good option for streetable applications.I just feel that for all out hp the big single is the way to go!
Back to the drawing board for now.When the car is down for the single turbo work I will be modding the pump and installing the passenger preformance cam as well.As Dave mentioned his cam will help with lag anyways.
-
Well that's still good.. at least the TDI guys won't be able to use your twin turbos as an excuse for your IDI making awesome power with relatively low smoke :twisted: It seems there's more in your IDI than just K24+HY35 compounds with the HY not fully spooled up.
Anyway, hopefully the single HY35 can make good max. boost.
-
I think imho that hte wastegate area of either the t3 or the k24 is just to small and restrctive to be used as the small tubo, I belive that it would have to be a large external wastegate or a differt setup for a internal wasted gate to make it work. I had my suspsions when I was first peiceing together my origional idea for twins 2years ago, but never was able to test the theory.
You are right for all out power on a dyno or down the strip a big single will win every time, However for drivability twins are where it is at. Keep us informed of how things are going.
-
Brett, I am impressed, you have done your homework! You are dead right about the k24/t3 wastegate being too small. You gotta remember that for stages turbos when you are pushing that much air through your high pressure turbo you gotta have a big enough wastegate to get rid of the extra air pressue or the high pressure turbine will stall out. And you will loose spool on your low pressure turbo.
-
They hy spools ok without the k24 wastegate opening,That sugests ok flow through the k24 turbine/wastegate.I did enlarge the wastegate port from 3/4" to 1" I believe.The T3's hole isn't able to be opened up that much.I don't think the k24's wastegate/turbine is the problem here,its the compressor side thats the main restriction,or perhaps rarther the slow moving k24 compressor is slowing down the flow from the hy.As Bruce "QuickTD" and I were discusing the k24's wheels are possibly turning too slow with the wastegate fully opened this is what probably cuts down flow too much through both ends of the k24,espically the compressor side!I wonder if a switchover valve on the hy's compressor outlet bypassing the k24's compressor would help any :idea:.Does't mercedes have some intake bypass on thier compounds?
-
They hy spools ok without the k24 wastegate opening,That sugests ok flow through the k24 turbine/wastegate.I did enlarge the wastegate port from 3/4" to 1" I believe.The T3's hole isn't able to be opened up that much.I don't think the k24's wastegate/turbine is the problem here,its the compressor side thats the main restriction,or perhaps rarther the slow moving k24 compressor is slowing down the flow from the hy.As Bruce "QuickTD" and I were discusing the k24's wheels are possibly turning too slow with the wastegate fully opened this is what probably cuts down flow too much through both ends of the k24,espically the compressor side!I wonder if a switchover valve on the hy's compressor outlet bypassing the k24's compressor would help any :idea:.Does't mercedes have some intake bypass on thier compounds?
I would say that your dead on about that it seems to me under closer inspection that the k24 is close to the right size of charger but the wrong design.
Let me expend on this thought a little, iirc the k24 on the cold side has about twice the number of blades as the T3 (just using for refernce) now the reason for using more blades is to push the surge left on a map or for those not literate in turbo speak to alow for more pressure at low air flow. The K24 has about the most blades I think I have ever seen...
Now for the hotside you have to balance spool and flow, and for the amount of power you are running I think that your hotside is still just too small, it should be like .44 - .48, turbine design comes into play as well but, optmum design is out of my range I am sure QuickTD or TdiMeiseter could probably shed some light there.
I belive its is BMW and Opel that use a bypass valve, but that is just symantics :wink: , and it may work very well for your app. The reason that you don't see it in alot of "homebrew" designs is cost and complications. That and the compound setups out there (cummins, powerstroke, duramax ect..) seem to work without it, but we are comparing apples to oranges there.
I think that a bypass both hot and cold would be optimal. Using just an adjustable pressure swtich like a hobbs #83298, just off the top of my head :P . As I write this I think that it may react to quickly and you would loose pressure and flow on the sudden switch and would be better off with a wastegate style controller that as the pressure builds it starts to open allowing more and more pressure to pass to the big turbo until 20psi or so and then it would all go that way. Lots of options, but I know you have some bright minds already helping you. Keep us updated.
8)
-
Wow- andy2, seriously nice work... thanks for the updates and congrats on the nice dyno numbers! :D
Let me expend on this thought a little, iirc the k24 on the cold side has about twice the number of blades as the T3 (just using for refernce) now the reason for using more blades is to push the surge left on a map or for those not literate in turbo speak to alow for more pressure at low air flow. The K24 has about the most blades I think I have ever seen...
Actually, the 1.6lTD Garrett versus the 1.6lTD KKK K24 do indeed have the same number of compressor blades: 6 long ones (extending to the inducer bore) and 6 shorter ones (that are set back a little... not extending fully to the inducer bore inlet.) The K24 has a slightly larger compressor blade inlet surface area than the Garrett.
1.6lTD Garrett compressor on the left, KKK on the right:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid201/pdf56e685abfc31322fd9897c4fcba776/f007edec.jpg)
-
Thanks, for the correction.
I must have been comparing to malone's Gt-20 or somthing else of similar size, that I had seen.
-
Hmmm - again, a compound newbie, so be gentle.
Would porting/slightly englarging the exhaust housing help, and/or clipping some of the turbine blades?
-
I did enlarge the k24's wastegate hole,If I put any bigger turbine housing on there then I may as well just go with the single turbo as the smaller one would'nt spool that great anyhow.
I've came up with an Idea about using an hx35 that spools quick and has good top end flow.Not really my invention,But it would make the hx35 spool better than the hy35.
Here's a link to see the MultiStageTurbo, http://www.atsturbo.com/atswebsite/ProductsDodge/TurboSystems.asp
Kinda like VNT/VGT just old school :twisted:
-
It's been ahwile since I had an Hy in my hand's, does it not have a split turbine housing like the Hx? I know I saw a smaller 6cm housing that still had the split housing so I think in my mind I asumed that they all did.
-
IF you are running justa big single with a split turbine housing you need to make a pulsed manifold, so that the turbine is getting even exhaust pulses, it wont help spool up as much the multistage turbo, but it wont create the backpressure/exhaust turbulence that the multistage will. I love how simple and effective those multistage turbos are though, thats a great idea.b
-
The hy does'nt have the split housing and It spools ok with the 9cm housing.With a pulsed manifold and all exhaust being forced through one half of the 12cm housing(6cm) it should spool as well as the t3,k24 I'm pretty well convinced it will.Any more thoughts on the idea now?
-
I will build the diverter and sandwich it between the turbo and header.It will open up with boost and act as a wall between the two banks of cyls.I think that makes some sence :lol:
-
I would say its likely a lot more hassle than its worth. Why not just run the hy35 straight up? Worried about smoke down low? Than you gotta use turbo underneath... :D But I guess that isnt working for you either. I sent you a pm.
-
What about using a supercharger and a turbo then?
20 psi constant and the big turbo for high revs.
Just an idea like that. :D
-
(http://automobile.nouvelobs.com/mag/050829/twincharger/images/schema.jpg)
Something like this. :D
-
Something like this. :D
Interesting- a bypass on the intake air around the supercharger. You think maybe when the turbo reaches full song, it bypasses air around the charger? As in the supercharger is a restriction?? :shock:
Uh-oh, I'm getting dirty evil thoughts a brewin'....... :twisted:
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
-
Nope, I see a mag-clutch on the s/c drive pulley, the bypass valve is there for free air flow when the s/c is disengaged.
-
Ok, that's the purpose of this magnet clutch.
This is on the TSI engine (gas engine in Europe).
I guess that on a diesel you could disregard the magnetic clutch and have the SC blow let say 20 psi at all time.
The intake bypass is probably there to help the turbo suck as much air as it needs at higher revolution while when closed pressurise the pipe in between the SC and T at lower revolution.
I'd put another intercooler (Ladeluftkühler) after the SC, not obstructing the by pass.
Air would be colder before getting to the turbo.
Anyway, it's always good to have a few options. :D
-
I was thinking about this bypass valve: it's the only thing missing on Andy's setup, a bypass valve to let the big turbo breathe adequately. :D
-
(http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/7/19519273874.jpg) (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/19519273874.jpg&s=f10)
A pic of the latest attempt at getting it to work properly :lol: !! This is the Vw T3 and the hy35 on top.I figured again with it all apart I had better take a pic as its pretty well hidden in the engine bay.
-
So is the big pump and the cam going on at the same time?
Lookin hot. 8)
-
The cam will go in after I get it up and running again.First I'll see how the turbos work and then put the cam in to see how it changes things.Shortly after testing the cam I will then put the 12mm pump on. One thing at a time. I believe I will increase feuling on the 12mm pump to 105CC's full load fueling(86cc's now),That may just be the key to making the hy spool that much better.
-
Ok,so I've got the turbos back on and running.Still not working right but I believe that it may be due to the fact that the engine is running under fueled.On 23 psi now I can hardly get the pyro above 1200 deg,before on 37 psi I could peg the pyro at 1500 by fourth gear :shock:.With the lowered compression and increased cc's in displacment this engine needs more fuel!
I've upgraded the fuel supply pump its the same one that hilfolk'r using form the ISB cummins.I was using the one from a 6.5TD powered chev before and it barely kept up with demand.
Tonight I put brand new mercedes nozzles in place of the GTD ones.The engine runs 25-50 rpm higher cold and hot so I'm sure they are delivering more fuel however its not enough to really notice,possibly 5 hp I'm not sure?
Also directly after that test drive I installed Dave's Stg 3 camshaft from Passenger Preformance.Again I didn't really feel any noticeable gain in preformance,Perhaps a second cut from spool time and mabye 25 deg from egt's.
Because my engine is not fueled properly yet I would say that the gains from both the nozzles and espically the cam have not really been fully seen yet!!
I don't even rev the engine that high right now as its running low on boost with the small T3 set to 23 psi.As soon at 23 psi comes at lower rpm there is'nt much more torque after that.
I'll be working with the inj pump at my work with the asistance of my Boss.Swaping it to 12mm soon as well as some other setup changes while on the test bench.
Oh, and I had to replace my new coolant temp gague as it was a dud(isspro) new one works great though.Also done some body work to the car and got some cheap paint put on :roll:.The other biggest job of all was definitely changing the heater core,If you've changed one for the first time you know what I mean :evil:.
I think thats about all for now :D.
-
any pics of the car with the new setup installed? from your post it seems like theis new combo drives better? no?
thanks
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!
-
can you give enough feul under boost with such big twin turbo? :shock:
Is the LDA the only mod with this twin turbo to give more diesel under pressure?
Greetz, Benjamin
-
Deo,theres a pic of the engine bay on page 7 of this thread :wink:.I think this car is a little slower only because this car weighs a little more than the A2 jetta.
The pump can be cranked up good with the 12mm setup,It will be set at 105cc's full load fueling(at 86 now).
-
The pump can be cranked up good with the 12mm setup,It will be set at 105cc's full load fueling(at 86 now).
i assume its 86cc/min ?? on wich rpm :roll: (wich make 160WHP!?!)
A guy here is talking about a his race engine in a caddy wich rev's 7000rpm and 280cc, he even can go higher with a VE pump :roll:
his max EGT's should be between 1740-1920F (950-1050°C)
Greetz, Benjamin
edit, its a vw caddy 1.9
-
I believe its cubic mm/stroke,perhaps someone else could confirm?
7000rpm+280cc+1900F :shock: thats pretty insane,whats the hp goal, 300 hp on 60 psi boost??
I was quite happy with my 160 whp @4000 rpm with 86cc and 30 psi.
-
hi guys
the 86cc's is measured per 1000 injections
so it's 86 cc's @1000 injections.
not /min or Ib's / hr. like gas is measured.
Giles
-
I am trying to get used to dealing with the smaller pumps. I work for a diesel shop that specialized in pick up truck performance. We have built a P7100 that flows over 1000cc :shock: Now you need a whole lot of air to burn that. The twin setup on this truck is running in the 110-115psi range. Puts about 900hp to the ground with over 1700lbft of torque. I want to get my little 1.9 up to 175hp to the ground. I guess I have a way to go.
We are also a Airwerks engineering shop here. I have our turbo engineer mapping out both a single and a compound system that will work on this engine. I will keep you all posted on what we come up with. :twisted:
Gilles, I hear you make a killer pump so when my fueling needs come up I am going to pick up one of your pumps.
-
@Kantdrive55: what is a P7100? a pump?
can you answer this topic?
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4244&highlight=gt2252v
I will keep you all posted on what we come up with
yeah, you do that! :D
Greetz, Benjamin
-
A P7100 pump is a bosch inline injection pump used on 2nd gen cummins 12V motor's. :wink:
-
um,my manifold dude will machine my hx30w housing to fit the hy35 turbo setup,but he would rather machine more than one,for cost purposes
unless i really twist his arm.....
does anyone want a hx30w exh housing machined to fit a hy35 turbo???
lemme know
sorry to jump off topic just figured id post here,since andy2 has done this
-
Well I fineally got my 12mm pump built,With bone stock advance :wink: and only full fuel holding on to 4700RPM before my new working governor starts to cut off.However while pumping out 105cc's worth fuel my clutch now slips,Its a 16v(stock Pressure plate) with kevlar faced disc.It held up to 180hp Thats about it.Any clutch suggestions?
-
talk to blake ie : macs dub or hillfolk. he jsut did a sweet clutch i think it was clutch net or something pm or email him
thanks
Deo
-
blakes was off of clutchnet.com some sorta 4 puck *** and it's the 210 setup too
-
Well I fineally got my 12mm pump built,With bone stock advance :wink: and only full fuel holding on to 4700RPM before my new working governor starts to cut off.However while pumping out 105cc's worth fuel my clutch now slips,Its a 16v(stock Pressure plate) with kevlar faced disc.It held up to 180hp Thats about it.Any clutch suggestions?
We use Southbend Clutch for the diesel pickups. They work awesome. They have some pretty cool stuff for your car as well. southbendclutch.com
-
blakes was off of clutchnet.com some sorta 4 puck *** and it's the 210 setup too
yep
its a "red" setup
get the red pressure plate,and the 4 puck ceramic
it wont slip then
-
Here's somthing interesting
http://www.msnusers.com/gtdforum/Documents/opel%5Ftwinturbo%5F1.png
-
the link doenst work andy2
Greetz, Benjamin
-
I don't know?Still works for me?Anyone having issues?
-
It is broken for me as well.
VelocityConservation
-
Mabye try this :?
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/09/gm_unveils_opel.html
-
Andy what type of dyno was your car running on????
-
The dyno in the link pictured is the actuall one my car was on.
http://www.chandlertechnologies.com/dyno.php
-
So have you dynoed it since the 12mm pump? did you get your clutch sorted out. I know that Dave @ PP has a 4puck and a 16Vpressure plate that holds alot of power, more then any 020 I have come across. That is if you are still running an 020. If not clutchnet has good stuff so does spec, as well as, dxd (southbends car division). How does the new combonaiton spool, with the big pump?
-
So have you dynoed it since the 12mm pump? did you get your clutch sorted out. I know that Dave @ PP has a 4puck and a 16Vpressure plate that holds alot of power, more then any 020 I have come across. That is if you are still running an 020. If not clutchnet has good stuff so does spec, as well as, dxd (southbends car division). How does the new combonaiton spool, with the big pump?
I am building Andy a special 3 strap pressure plate from a 16v sachs unit, as well as sending him a 4 puck disk. I see a riveted differential blowing to bits in andys future... :lol:
-
or a 5th gear, or an imput shaft or... What else did I break??? :lol:
-
or a 5th gear, or an imput shaft or... What else did I break??? :lol:
Shoot Brett you would like this I don't think I ever told you. After replacing one of your many blown o2o's last year I pulled one of them apart to see if I could salvage 5th for a buddy with a short ratio tranny in his gasser. The 5th gear was broken in 3 PIECES, none of the teeth were broken or stripped, the gear was just in 3 pieces, I was like :shock:
So of course I put them in a bag and took them to my buddys later that night and said hey man I got something special for you, even better than a diesel 5th gear, a racing 3 piece gear :D So him not knowing anything about trannys was all stoked and was already making plans as to when I could swap the gears for him until he opened the bag. Damn we were laughing.
-
No dyno since the 12mm was installed.After I get Dave's clutch installed and do some serious fine tuning I'll have to dyno it.Perhaps I'll dyno it before I start to test out the drivetrain too much :lol:.The way this 12mm pump puts out I can't see any issues making 200 WHP at the dyno next time.
-
As for spoolage well its alot better now the hy's working so well I may have to build a bypass like the Opel design.For the short peroid of time that the clutch did hold It was all I could do to keep the car on the road let alone read 2 boost gages and the pyro.I almost need a willing passenger to monitor whats going on when I'm flying down these bumpy back roads in forth :shock:.
-
I WILL BE THE CO PILOT! hey hopefully everything is going to work out. i think i only have a month left of building my car then im going to pull the hole car apart and finish off some stuff and suspension and build up a new top end. also a well hidden nitrous system.
-
Just wondering, guys. Does anyone do a heavy duty rebuild on the VW transmission? I mean, these cars have been raced for years...surely someone does a HD Race rebuild.
-
So the hy35 is too big for my compound setup(possibly even as a single turbo IMO??) and I'm installing the hx30 again.The T3's wastegate flows good enough to the hy's turbine its just too big.Tonight I was removing the hy and intake manifold when I noticed that the #1 intake port was carboned up a good bit :cry: so I ran the engine without the intake and I can hear and see very clearly at idle that the intake valve is leaking.So off comes the head for inspection.I will likely be installing head studs this time around.
-
no luck buddy.... i know how ya feel. well im happy with my headstuds i got rid of my cap srcews in a hurry when my car kept going through head gaskets and stripped the threads out of the block.
-
I don't think the headgasket was leaking with the capscrews in there but the studs will do a much better job thats for sure espically when I really crank this engine up.
I pulled the #1 intake and exhaust valves out tonight and could not see anything wrong with the valves,seats,springs or lifters.When I first had the engine running with my re done head on there in the spring it had the same noise coming out of the intake manifold and I figured it was somewhat normal but like now the engine ran great so I didn't worry about it.It has'nt got any worse but now with the intake manifold off I could really see how bad this problem was.So now it looks like there is a problem with the head where the normal looking cracks are found between the valves :roll:.I figure the crack is bad enough to the point where the pressure is leaking between the intake valve seat and the head??I'll hopefully get the head checked out soon as this is my daily driver :( .
-
So the hy35 is too big for my compound setup(possibly even as a single turbo IMO??) and I'm installing the hx30 again.The T3's wastegate flows good enough to the hy's turbine its just too big.Tonight I was removing the hy and intake manifold when I noticed that the #1 intake port was carboned up a good bit :cry: so I ran the engine without the intake and I can hear and see very clearly at idle that the intake valve is leaking.So off comes the head for inspection.I will likely be installing head studs this time around.
Something isn't right if your hy isn't spooling. Apparently the hy35 turbine is around .48 AR, I have run .48 ar turbines on 1.6's and 1.9's as single turbos with no issues, I get full boost (around 35 psi) at about 3-3500 rpm, this is of course with modfied fuel pumps and stuff, not stock. On my 1.6td I am putting together for my daily driver I am using a .48 with my new tubular manifolds, it should spool great.
-
Rememeber the A/R can't really be used as a reference from one manufacturer to another. I would expect the HY would be comparable to a T4 .48 A/R, not a T3 .48.
-
I'm thinking the hy is more like a .54-.60 AR if the .48 spools good.
Correction:more compareable to a .54-.60AR :wink:
-
The hy didn't spool well enough for Hilfolkr's TDI either this only supports my theroy about it being to big.A Tubular manifold would help it spool quicker but I think that the max boost may only go up 1-3 psi when compared to the stock manifold.
-
Lots of updates :lol:,Last time I replied on this thread I had the cracked head which I had repaired.At the time when the turbo (hy35) was off I decided to put the hx30 back on as the hy was not working for me.So I had it all back together and running with some crazy hybrid injector boddies,They consisted old GM 6.2 injector (bottom W/corse thread) unlike the later 6.2 injector,Then I used the 1.6 injector top on the 6.2 bottom as the threads were the same.I assembled them with the Merc nozzles and they work alot better than the 2 stage 1.9 setup I had in there before.Why? Where the cyl head and heatshield sit there was an issue with the sealing as the heat and pressure had kind of got the better of the head this resulted in compression leaking by the heatshield therefor seizing up the nozzle!No more issues now as I used a copper washer to seal the inj to head :twisted:,Crazy :twisted:.
So I had the t3/hx3o on there and can't get that combo to work right either :cry:.I was testing out drive pressures vs boost when my coolant temp goes up.I pulled over to see coolant pounding out the overflow,Now I have to pull the head again to see whats going on either headgasket/stud issue or cracked head??
While I have this apart I will swap the T3 turbo for the k24/k14 turbo which seemed to work well before with the hx30 :roll:.So I'm busy again.
-
Sounds awesome keep it up man. Were gonna need some video of this monster.
-
Thanks,I just tried torquing my ARP head studs down to 120 ft lbs up from the 80 ft lbs using the moly lube as the lubricant.The 120 ft lbs torque in the insructions was only intended for use with motor oil.Anyhow I still have major issues so the head will come off and I'll see if the gasket had any issues and get the head checked out also.At least I'll be doing two jobs at once this time(turbo swap,head gasket) so it won't be a total loss :roll:
-
what is the story on the 2 rods?
-
Bent connecting rods?The stock AAZ ones seem to handle about 145- 155hp on 35psi boost.
My repaired cylinder head was not repaired well enough as the weld is porous.Now I have coolant enter the intake port and then under load, boost in the coolant :x.Were starting fresh on a very good used head it will require some work for the larger pre cups and what not :twisted:.
I reassembled the k24/14 turbo today ready for the hx30 again.
-
the last 2 pictures on your link on the first post. 2 different rods? whats the story? i am looking for better rods for a tdi. i want it to stay together at 40 psi
-
That pic shows the AAZ rod and the TDI PD 100hp rod (BEW engine code) I believe.Which TDI engine are you hot rodding 1Z/AHU or ALH? I don't have to much hardcore TDI hotroding info as others on this forum,Prehaps others will chime with some info.
-
1z I havent looked yet but i do have aa good used set of ALH rods
-
So we started from scratch with another cyl head and machined it to fit our custom pre cups and ported the head as well.I torqued the studs to 120 ft lbs using motor oil as the lubricant this time.I built up my k24/k14 combo this time and used the hx30 also.With a special "compound only" modded wastegate (QuickTD's idea) :twisted: this time around it all works much better in terms of EGT's spool up and more importantly we have the compound effect working :wink:.Only one big problem though,After a couple of hardcore trips around the block the engine blows coolant out the overflow :x.On 29 psi boost and loads of power it looks like the headgasket has surpassed its useful limit.As I'm deaccelerating after the coolant blows out the engine stalls out as I want to down shift which I can only guess happens due to the loss of compression.Currently I'm thinking about what to do next,one thought was to moddifly a headgasket to add about .004 thou of additional crush around the gaskets sealing area "fire ring".Possibly moddifying the head as the cummins guys do may be an option??
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=132796&highlight=ring
-
Its great to hear that its working well. accept the coolant thing. God dammit i know how you feel its just so dam frustrating. I have also thought about oringing my engine because for some reason i just cant hold the top end down. I am running arp studs 1.9 gasket and both surfaces are freshly machined and still coolant problems. I AM ONLY RUNNING 27 PSI... i used to runn that in my bone stock 1.6 with factory headgasket..... Im staring to wonder how much boost before grenading this thing. Dr.diesel was running 35 psi and nitrous and his engine held togehter great with nothing done to the thing accept arp headstuds and giles pump... DAM!
i wonder were we could get this procedure performed.let me know if you find a place.
(sorry i got worked up)
Jeff
-
andy i think its time for you to try a pure copper gasket... i honestly cannot see a copper gasket failing you! :twisted:
only one problem... $$$$$$$$$$$$$4
-
well how much? i dont car it would cost me less to by one of those then by 7 normal 1.9 ones and all the stress that comes with it.
-
My 1.6/1.9TD engine had a few coolant tank blow-outs too when exceeding 30 or 35 PSI, albeit with a lower-flowing GT20 turbo. Had Raceware headstuds and a OEM 1.9 headgasket. The car still started & ran like a champ thousands of KMs after that though, it was probably a temporary head lift under full power.
During the engine build Passenger Performance mentioned getting o-rings and I thought it was a great idea, but we couldn't find some small enough for the 1.6 bores so we skipped it.
Next time I would try to get it o-ringed/fire ringed and probably a copper headgasket.
One source for copper headgaskets:
http://www.headgasket.com/products.html
About $85.00 USD per gasket.. if they haven't done a TD gasket before then there's a one-time CAD fee $75.00. I'll gladly donate some of my money for their CAD fee and order a gasket. mini groupbuy anyone? Disclaimer: I haven't really researched for other places that make custom copper headgaskets, so there may be better deals elsewhere. I'd like a AAZ-based gasket (for my 1.9 head on a 1.6 block probably with AAZ pistons).
andy2: That really $ucks it has to come apart again, but keep your head up. It isn't an impossible problem and we're all anticipating your results :)
-
I would say that it looks like 140-145 hp is about the max hp(reliably) that we can get out of these engines before having gasket problems.I'm sure that we can over come this issue and bend rods at 200+WHP :twisted:.
-
i'll donate money to the copper head gasket 'fund'... i would expect the copper to hold to around 60 psi easily with good strong head studs.
i trust copper... i learned pretty quickly working on cars that without the copper gasket, high pressure things will leak... :oops:
-
im not sure what kind of power im running its pretty quick but i dont think 145 hp maybe its more i dont know i would love to dyno it. I think i would go for a couple copper gaskets and im sure dr.diesel would buy a few.
Jeff
-
i wonder about their re-useableness... could probably re-use it once or twice... :)
maybe the copper hg would need to be a little thicker as well, due to the fact that it 'squishes' a little bit.. maybe 0.5mm max?
-
i heard they could be re used but i would kind of hesitate on reusing it on a high boost diesel.
-
i heard they could be re used but i would kind of hesitate on reusing it on a high boost diesel.
i wonder why exactly copper gaskets must be replaced... maybe there is a way of 'shaving' or even just scuffing/sanding the surface to make it seal good again?
-
if you wanna re-use a copper headgasket, you need to heat it up, just like you have to do with copper O-rings. i should always remeasure the tickness from the gasket before you put it on again (always measure after heating it).
with tick (3mm or so) headgaskets there are sometimes problems, they can leak sometimes. (well, thats my knowledge about copper headgaskets on gassers, but i never had one installed myself)
Greetz, Benjamin
-
heating it up isn't so bad... worth it imo... i honestly cannot see copper leaking... unless there was large enough gouges on the gasket itself to cause a leak...
-
anyone find a place yet get oringing done?Prices?
-
anyone find a place yet get oringing done?Prices?
in Belgium there is 1 producer for copper headgaskets, i called with them and they ask 125EUR. you have to send an original to them, they send you back the two gaskets.
http://www.cojoint.com/en/home.php?page=
this one is definitly cheaper http://www.headgasket.com/products.html
there is also a other metal headgasket solution, but i dont know the right name in english :cry:
Greetz, Benjamin
-
well i think a good way to go if you want to make power with out problems is just straight out change the head stud size to 13mm. Clearly there isnt enough clamping force so change it to 13mm. I have 12 mm arp studs right now and just cant seem to hold that thing down.
-
Copper is not the way to go for a daily driver.They will seep and leak like crazy during warmup\cooldown.Been down that road with the Cummins.
O-rings are the way to go.You need to find a shop who can machine the head,and find a source of o-rings.They will be good to 50-60 PSI if you can keep the clamp load tight enough.
-
Copper is not the way to go for a daily driver.They will seep and leak like crazy during warmup\cooldown.Been down that road with the Cummins.
O-rings are the way to go.You need to find a shop who can machine the head,and find a source of o-rings.They will be good to 50-60 PSI if you can keep the clamp load tight enough.
hmmm good to get some first hand experience with the copper hg... wish there was an aftermarket cast iron head available... no more issues :)
-
The cummins doesn't have an aluminum head, and they do hold up well to lots of boost. But the weight savings on the little cars is probably worth more.
-
Yes,the cummins is an iron head.
I can only imagine the copper headgasket problems would be worse with an aluminum head,due to the different expansin and contraction rates of the two different metals.
-
well then just freeze the copper hg and the head and then torque them down asap while cold... this should give a really good seal! if the studs can hold it down with enough clamping force there shouldn't be a problem.
maybe bigger head studs is the way to go? wasn't there a guy running 60 psi boost and producing major hp in a vw caddy???
-
I don't think the head studs are the problem its just that the stock HG doesn't have enough crush around the fire ring for high HP.I've got the block out ready for machining the grooves.The cyl head will be left alone in this case.I may put rubber o rings into the gasket for the oil pressure ports to ensure a good seal there.I'm not sure what rad cap pressure the OEM rad cap holds but the experts say to use an 8 lb cap to hopefully help with coolant sealing issues.Still kind of up in the air about The actual gasket and o rings themselves.QuickTd is looking into the copper end of it and We are in touch with some other place too.The PD 100 rods are holding up good anyways :twisted:.
-
Here is the place
http://clarkcopperheadgaskets.com/cchg/modules/content/index.php?id=1
-
Well my newer setup involving copper headgasket and stainless steel "o-ring" is not holding much better than factory Headgasket and factory headbolts. I'll be pulling the head off to cryo treat it and possibly creamic coat the exhaust ports in an attempt to make the head more stiff also we will be lowering the compression a bit by upsizing precups from 6.2 NA to 6.5TD.We are having some issues with threads in the block as we got a little carried away with headbolt torque :oops: so we will need to put something bigger in place of the 12mm mabye 13,14 mm.Perhaps Bruce will post up some pics of his work done with the copper HG and head machining so it can be drooled over :lol: .I've got another car now so this car is not going to be daily driven all the time so we can take the time needed to sort out all of these endless issues to persue this engines max potential :twisted:.
-
surprised that even with all those mods it is still leaking... i can only imagine the pressures going on in there :shock:
i hope the cryo & ceramic coating helps!!!
maybe going to bigger head studs will be the key??? there was also talk of a girdle that could go inside the head to beef it up, since the soft aluminum might be the problem.
-
Wow, how much boost were you pushing with the copper headgasket and o-rings? I'd like to see pics of the o-rings too. Hopefully the head stays put next time!
-
I was only running 30 psi and have not yet setup the trubos But there is alot of fuel going into that engine with the 12mm head cranked up pretty good (105cc).On 30 psi the EGT's are out of control so I figure it will need 35-40 psi to lower temps and probably make a good bit more power in the process.
We were looking into making a head support (girdle) and possibly will be.
I was talking to an older vw mechanic and he said that the older 1.5 and early soild lifter 1.6 heads were much better quality,better material,better castings.He sugested using one of those castings to build up??
-
Andy I have been working with fellow that has literally oringed and fire ringed hundreds of cummins heads, after my first couple of copper HG failures we talked about it and he said hes never had any luck with copper HG's, he told me for running O rings to use a fiber gasket and use an oring in the head and block. We are going to try and just make a fire ring on my new 1.6 daily driver in a couple weeks here, I will use a 1.9 MLS gasket because its already oversized ready for a firering! Shoot me a PM we can discuss some specs for the firering cuts/machining. Making a head girdle would be pretty badass :twisted: But I don't think its necessary. Those big cummins only run 12mm studs.
-
i'm really surprised at the copper head gasket issue... copper is such a good soft sealer... but then again running at huge pressures and temperatures... :shock:
-
Perhaps it's time to use Water Injection to control EGTs, lower Peak Pressure spikes and give you back some of that energy later in the power stroke - it's such a powerful tool... even 50% water to fuel might make all the difference?
-
Perhaps Bruce will post up some pics of his work done with the copper HG and head machining so it can be drooled over :lol:
Ask and ye shall receive.
Milling the o-ring groove on the cnc, .040 diameter solid carbide endmill, careful is the word. Never used tools that small before to cut iron. Worked pretty well, if time consuming. 0.8inches per minute feedrate and ~0.015 depth of cut , 2 passes for each groove. The grooves go out around the (much larger) prechamber, sealing at the same location as the stock gasket.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pef3b8a3a9019ecf1c5a31c75d2f62c71/e99be641.jpg)
Head gasket, cnc milled from 0.062" sheet copper. If anybody would like the math, I now have it.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pd0559cd165e6c8631a18ab98703c6216/e99be630.jpg)
O-ring receiving grooves, also cut on the cnc but with a larger 0.062 end mill, not as deep as the O-ring groove and in aluminum, so much less stressful. :D The added head and block dowel pin holes are machined in the same setup, so the o-ring and receiver grooves register precisely.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p9d0797c3363a5f5ce291880590616c23/e99be635.jpg)
Shame about the whole setup not working as well as expected. I can attest to the flatness and surface finish of the head a block surfaces, the only thing I can figure is that the head is flexing under load, or the studs are stretching. Larger head studs may help? Some sort of girdling for the head? I'm out of ideas...
-
Nice work Bruce!
Few thoughts and questions, why go around the prechamber? I would have cut right into the pre chamber, and made sure I changed my feed rate before I hit the iconel :lol:
Reason being is that I think I'd want the o ring to be as close to the combustion area as possible, and in a perfect circle, with the oval like cut out for the pre cup its going to give that excessive PCP somewhere to squeeze between the copper HG and block/head deck surfaces a lot easier than if the O ring was consistant all the way around. Its kind of hard for me to type this and explain it :?
I am personally going to try and fire ring my new engine, I hear it holds a lot more boost than O ringing, makes sense.
Did you CAD that HG out yourself? If so that probably took a while, I need to do that soon :cry:
-
The reason I went around the prechamber was to avoid leakage at the prechamber/head junction. The lower lip (counterbore) of the chamber is not a press fit in the head. If you drive out the chambers and measure them relative to the bore you'll find they only press into the upper bore, there is some clearance at the counterbore. This would port combustion gas over the o-ring to the coolant passages unless sealed at the perimeter. The stock gasket crimp ring goes outside of the prechamber for this reason, no attempt is made to seal it at the bore. This is even more obvious on the composition gaskets where there is a steel insert under the chamber, no sealing at the bore edge. The amount of added surface area is negligable, I didn't think it would make much difference. Then again, it didn't work, did it...
Perhaps using oversized prechambers and machining to insure that they are a nice press fit in the counterbore as well as the main bore and o-ringing it with round o-rings would be the answer. It would be impossible to end mill the groove through the inserts (much too hard for solid carbide, easpecially at that size) but since the groove is round it could be cut using a single point CBN or ceramic tool. Your turn to try it Dave... :D
-
Did you CAD that HG out yourself? If so that probably took a while, I need to do that soon
Yes, I did, and yes, it did... Lots of plotter paper consumed for proofing... Like I said 2 posts up, if you or anybody wants the math I can send you DXF or IGES, no sense all of us having to suffer through it. Hell you can even have the NC code if you like, the more the merrier... :D
-
Hmmm I see what your saying, that makes sense too, do you have any idea where it failed from? I kind of assumed that because you put larger precups in both bores would have been press fit. How tight of a press fit do you think you could do? I am still really new to machining, just got my first CNC mill, a Tree journeyman 330, 40 taper. Its pretty fun! I'd love the DXF file!
-
I just looked at making some girdles for the heads, I don't think its gonna work, there are these supports that go from the edge of the head to the center of the head where the lifter bores are, I would assume these add quite a bit of strength in maintaining the bores roundness. The only decent way I see of making a head girdle would be milling these out than getting an end mill the same diameter as the recesses for the head bolts at the same depth than running it the length between the two outermost head bolt holes. So there would be 2 "girdles" , one for each side, basically they would be really beefy 1.6td valve cover hold down straps :lol:
But yeah, I don't like the idea of milling those lifter bore supports out...
FIRERING :twisted: (please work please work please work)
Guess I need to put my money where my mouth is and give it a try.
-
So please explain the diff. between a firering and an o-ring. I thought i understood this but now i don't think i do.
-
I'm also curious about the method of using CAD in the machining. Could you guys go into a bit more detail. I am currently an AutoCAD Architectural Drafter for employment and curious what software and methods you use.
Andrew
In order to generate a tool path for machining you need to start with a vector (line) drawing. I use bobcad/cam for drawing and generating the toolpath for most 2d stuff because it's cheap, simple to use and allows good control over the toolpath. (good product, just don't get yourself on their contact list or a salesman will call daily...) Once I've drawn the geometery or imported it from some other program (autocad) I use the machining tools within bobcad to offset the toolpath from the geometery (to account for cutter diameter or kerf). Then using the NC code generator, I select the entity or chain of entities to machine, select a direction (climb or conventional) and the software automatically generates the NC code to machine the particular detail I'm working on. I usually select each entity individually so I can control the order in which they are machined and avoid clamps etc.
There are more automated methods of generating the NC code from geometry, for 3D surfacing in particular, but I don't have the kind of money it takes to buy the software (10k+) nor do I do much 3D work that requires it.
-
So please explain the diff. between a firering and an o-ring. I thought i understood this but now i don't think i do.
This is a pretty good explanation. It's chapter 13. (pg156-165) Pg 160 has the pictures. The whole chapter gives good detail on the process.
http://www.freetrust.be/piaa1/Maximum_boost.pdf
-
Fantastic book Subsonic... thanks muchly !!
Vince
-
ahh yes i read that book already. Very good piece. But now it seems i must go read it again. Thanks for the info.
-
Just a quick note. I have this book, but the book is on the forum courtesy of Benjamin.
-
i wonder if it would be possible to o-ring the oil and coolant passages as well... hmmm? that might help quite a bit
-
Bruce put a rubber o-ring around the oil pressure supply port to the head gasket,it worked perfectly.The coolant ports would hold alright if there wasn't serious compression entering the cooling system.I'll have it apart hopefully soon enough to take another stab at it.
-
Anything new happening with this beast?
-
andy2 is the only person I know who is actively trying to resolve the recently popular big boost > hg leak issue. I'm crossing fingers that this will work out!
-
Anybody ever tried easing the pressure on the head gasket by using ring inserts that fit in the block and the head. I'm sure one of my old cars from the seventies had these. Perhaps something made of copper for the oil supply rather than an 'o' ring... :idea:
-
Hate to drag this up but any updates?
I am eager to hear if it is working or not.
-
Yes, I've temporarely gave up on the compounds :oops:.Too many issues with it so we are going to run the hx30 as a single turbo.I'll have it together soon enough to have results.The cyl head still needs to come off for some more work but I need to get the turbo business figured out first as it just may be the biggest contrubiting factor for the gasket failing.
-
What else are you planning on doing to the head at this point?
-
Shame about the whole setup not working as well as expected...
i hear ya on that,,,same thing goin on here with my hy/hx hybrid on the tdi....too much lag,,but it wants to rev to the moon when it comes on around 33-3500 or so
pioneers get shot in the hiney with arrows,sometimes we slipthru,but other times we get hit........
i think you aughta try that compound setup on a tdi....i think mine got to somewhere around 40- 45 psi,maybe 50 the way it pegged the 30 psi guage around so quickly before it blew a headgasket
at least i got in 4 or 5 gtech 1/4 runs to give me an idea of what was goin on
theres too much fuel goin on for a prechamber engine to handle for any amount of time,imo
-
One of the head studs threads is stripped completely so that needs to be fixed.We may also get the head cryo treated and/or just try a stock head gasket on this setup to see if it holds any better or worse.The hx30 should get to 30-35 psi without too much lag.I figgured that the hx/hy combo would have worked well hilfolk'r,mabye the hx30 will work for you as well.Do you know what fueling your pump is set to.
-
Did you o-ring the block? how did that work?
What size of head studs are you using (I think due to your striped one you are having to go to 14-15mm)?
If you do the bigger head studs, you have to drill out the wholes, and re-tap the treads in? Assuming so.
What about a big VNT?
Are your compound problems to do with pluming the exhaust to the second turbo (I read the whole thread and it sounds like this is your problem.)?
I have an idea for the head thing, I will draw it up and post it, and see what kind of feed back you buys give me on it.
I have a few concerns about it, but some of you have way more experience then me, so I am hopeing you will be able to tell me if I am way off the mark or not.
Andy2, thanks for the post, it has helped me learn a lot. Hope you keep us updated on your progress. I know I will keep bugging you for updates! :wink:
-
Well I've had both the hx30 @29psi and hy35 @20psi on as a single now and have just now built a hybrid sort of like Hilfolk'r only I used the hx30 turbine housing and it's wheel along with the hy35's centersection and compressor.No machining required direct bolt-on.This should make it spool quicker.I'll have it on soon enough for some results :wink:
-
Here is that picture I was going to do up.
(http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/2333/vwringedih0.png) (http://imageshack.us)
Shot at 2007-07-12
My only concern with it is the expantion and contraction rates of the block and head, you could to a two ring design, but i think that it might be more suseptable to it.
I am not sure if you would need to to the recieving cut for these, if you kept them low enough only to deform the gasket to provide a better seal.
I am also thinking that Dave's, from PP, contact might be right with a fiber gasket, it would form better to the rings.
Any way, just an idea, let me know if I am way off on this.
-
Your idea looks a bit too bluky for the this head (IDI) its tight enough to use 1 o-ring!Also if you look at the pics of my head you would see that we had to machine around the prechambers which could not work with your idea but Your idea would work on a TDI.
Part of the issue with sealing the head to block is due to using a turbo(s) that are not proprely sized which leads to high turbine inlet pressure preventing the exhaust from leaving the cylinders thus increasing cylinder pressures and raising combustion temps also.
The hybrid hx30/hy35 still won't cut it with 29 psi boost/32psi drive pressure and EGT's pegged the whole time.I'll be putting an hx35 compressor onto the hx30 turbine next hoping that is will raise boost and equalize drive psi/boost pressure,Any thoughts?
-
4" exhaust and dave's pulsed manifold?
-
Well I'm back to 2 turbos again for the next test we are putting a heavier spring in the k24 wastegate to better control higher boost levels.The big turbo is a non wastegated H1C off an early cummins 5.9L.The head is off to get cryo treated and to modify the precups to lower the CR and flow better.14mm headstuds are going in this time to try and keep the head down and the Inj pump is off for some more tweaking also.I really hope we can get this thing to work this time around as there are some soon to be high power TDI's that I'd like to meet up with at the track next year :twisted:.
-
Keeping an eye on this one! :)
-
i will be at that track next year with my rabbit :twisted:
-
I cant tell ya how much I would love to see you make this work.
I have a hy35 sitting around I would love to use on something..
Keep thinking I'll just put it on the wifes Durango :twisted:
Would rather have it on my jetta though.
-
crazy stuff, eagerly awaiting updates :D
-
Is that last pick yer oil pump pulley?
-
Yeah that pully was made up over 2 years ago to raise to oil pressure as adding a second turbo lowered the pressure enough.My 1.9 engine uses the shorter 1.6td timing belt now :wink:.
14mm headstuds are now ready to go.We drilled and tapped the bigger thread in the block without removing/dismantling the engine.The head has been machined to accept the studs and hardware as well.
The pre cups have now been modded to flow better and lower the CR.Glow plugs have been replaced with custom made blank off bolts to this was done to help reduce the CR a bit more and to get the tip out of there as it does nothing for performance :twisted:.
A bigger hybrid k26/24 has been made up this time.Its basically just the Audi k26 with a machined out k24 turbine housing to accept the bigger k26 wheel.The water cooled center housing was swaped out for the k24 one as I was not interested in using the water cooled section.
Some more calculating was done to help size the 2 turbo's this time around.Slowly getting that figgered out :) .
The inj pump of off getting the fueling jacked up as well.
Thats all for now.
-
The pre cups have now been modded to flow better and lower the CR.
Got any more info on this?
-
A bigger hybrid k26/24 has been made up this time.Its basically just the Audi k26 with a machined out k24 turbine housing to accept the bigger k26 wheel
you mean, stock k24 center and housing, only bigger k26 compressor and exhaust wheels?
-
A bigger hybrid k26/24 has been made up this time.Its basically just the Audi k26 with a machined out k24 turbine housing to accept the bigger k26 wheel
you mean, stock k24 center and housing, only bigger k26 compressor and exhaust wheels?
Now I'm confused :lol: The k26 shaft dimensions are the same as the k24 so I was able to put the k26 shaft into the k24 center housing.the machine the k24 turbine housing to accept the k26 wheel.
-
The pre cups have now been modded to flow better and lower the CR.
Got any more info on this?
The pre cups are not orignal they are heavily modified GM 6.5TD pre cups basically.I started off with GM 6.2 precups and have now modded them to the same as the 6.5TD precups.The prechambers are basically double the stock CC's now.I have high flow 6.5 TD marine nozzles on order.They should be a good match for the prechamber and flow more than other IDI nozzles i think??
-
So what compressor are you using? K24 or K26. I'm guessing the K24 comp.
-
k26 compressor
-
oh okay smaller 24 turbine housing spooling larger 26 turbine/compressor. Sounds like a good set up. Very interested in hearing the results.
-
isn't k24 exhaust housing a/r too small?
-
isn't k24 exhaust housing a/r too small?
Not when using it in a compound application.The wastegate has been enlarged to bypass the needed flow to the big turbo.The wastegates on the T3's,k24's are double the size that they need to be (old school turbo) :lol: .The wastegates on the smaller turbos like k14,T2 and k03 have much smaller wastegates along with smaller wheels and turbine housings!
-
Andy, thank for all the updates.
Have you looked at how Ford, and Cummins do their compound setups?
Big turbo first, then the small, with a separate waste gate before the small turbo. I am not sure if you would have the room but this would allow for the larger turbo to spool properly, and let enough exhaust gas pass through to spool the small.
On a second note, did you have a post in here with Dyno results, as I can't seem to find it, if not can you post some, even if they are old?
-
I'm still slowly plugging away at my project Its a bit too cold for me to get excited about working on the engine.I've installed The H-beam rods that I bought from Kerma TDI.Very nice rod and I like having the tangs on the rod bearings which the PD rods did not have.I have a new turbo/manifold ready to be fabricated into my compound setup.Its a 50 trim T3 and I'll be using an internal wastegate with it.
Taking hints from 935racer,Dvst8r and zaprzal about the k24 being too small fineally got throught to me :wink: .Its all Ebay made in China stuff so we'll see how it holds up :twisted:.I'm using permatex 300 sealant to glue that head and block together.
Also every time I've pulled my pistons out I've noticed that the total seal rings are moving around :? .The middle ring is the gapless ring and the two ring gaps are positioned 180 deg from eachother.However the two gaps meet up with eachother after only a couple of 200 hp runs.They probaly should have pinned the rings to keep them from rotating.Once the gaps line up the compression is allowed to bypass the ring like stock ring almost.
-
Glad to hear you haven't given up on it, you are so close to having a monster!
-
A pic of the latest turbo setup before its all covered up.
(http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/3/8520444122.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7890532)
We had to cut into the rain tray above the fire wall to get the big turbo to fit better this time around.We have added a thin sheet of aluminum between the firewall and the turbo's as its all very close to the melting hot exaust.Some custom wastegate work was done to get it all fitted in.A heavier accuator for the small t3 was robbed off an hy35 as we need the small turbo to make approx 25 psi.
We lowered the front motor mount to get clearance for the turbo's as well.I have an oil cooler thermostat to add to the cooler plumbing this time around as the oil temps were too low before causing oil to not flow properly and cause damage.
Mike and I just got the inj pump issue's all sorted out it now has a different governor setup and some other modifications that it was lacking before.
-
A pic of the latest turbo setup before its all covered up.
(http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/3/8520444122.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7890532)
We had to cut into the rain tray above the fire wall to get the big turbo to fit better this time around.We have added a thin sheet of aluminum between the firewall and the turbo's as its all very close to the melting hot exaust.Some custom wastegate work was done to get it all fitted in.A heavier accuator for the small t3 was robbed off an hy35 as we need the small turbo to make approx 25 psi.
We lowered the front motor mount to get clearance for the turbo's as well.I have an oil cooler thermostat to add to the cooler plumbing this time around as the oil temps were too low before causing oil to not flow properly and cause damage.
Mike and I just got the inj pump issue's all sorted out it now has a different governor setup and some other modifications that it was lacking before.
cut raintray??lol
(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4892/hpim1096tp4.jpg)
-
Click here to watch cold-start-50 (http://media.putfile.com/cold-start-50)
A cold start video of the engine with lowered compression,no glow plugs and no cold advance device on pump,either only.We had 50 psi boost last night while test driving so now that the turbo end is figured out I'll pull the head to get the cracks welded up and see how the gasket is holding up.There is excessive pressure in the cooling system as soon as the engine is started cold so that is why we suspect the head is cracked.Coolant pours out the overflow vent onto the whole car during test drives.
We removed the hood so we could run the exhaust and see the smoke better while driving.Off boost fueling is high and full boost fueling is much higher but when 40+ psi boost comes on it cleans right up :D.
If we can get this back together and holding together we would like to make it for a dyno day that I saw on TDIclub.So 3 weeks should be enough time to get it ready :wink:.
-
Off boost fueling is high and full boost fueling is much higher but when 40+ psi boost comes on it cleans right up :D
crazy project :twisted: 8)
-
wow!!!!!!!!!!!!
when and where is this dyno meet?
and is that a Hood stack I see!
-
Big problems!! The head is off and will not hold its shape under power.Looks like the Aluminum head can no longer hold up to the pressure.It would either need 6 bolts around each cylinder or need to be made of steel.This was the problem all along,not the OEM headgasket or even the 12mm ARP headstuds.The TDI can make 200 hp before having the same issues with its head.My engine was making 200+ hp but had huge head sealing issues.My dad and I are brain storming up some ideas to get this working.Needless to say it will not be ready for the dyno but I will likely attend it anyhow to see what happens with the other tunned TDI's.
-
Big problems!! The head is off and will not hold its shape under power.Looks like the Aluminum head can no longer hold up to the pressure.It would either need 6 bolts around each cylinder or need to be made of steel.This was the problem all along,not the OEM headgasket or even the 12mm ARP headstuds.The TDI can make 200 hp before having the same issues with its head.My engine was making 200+ hp but had huge head sealing issues.My dad and I are brain storming up some ideas to get this working.Needless to say it will not be ready for the dyno but I will likely attend it anyhow to see what happens with the other tunned TDI's.
i wonder if there would be a way to make some sort of 'girdle' for the head like the mains down below. basically to reinforce the structure of the head. otherwise you'll need to make your own head.
another idea might be to make a special intake manifold to even out the pressure between the cylinders and hopefully reduce the stress by spreading it out? and maybe pulsed exhaust mani? some pretty involved machining/fabricating, but it might work. Dave's 1.6 is pushing some crazy hp and holding up.
have you pressure tested the head to 50+ psi? no leaks?
good progress man! maybe some day i could drop by to see this beast again :?: :D
-
The head is just not up to the challenge for these high hp IDI's.The coolant ports and pre chamber are the week spots.We would need 6 head bolts per cylinder to have any hope of keeping the aluminum from flexing.
All 4 cylinders are leaking so an intake manifold will not fix that.
Daves setup is completely different to mine his engine has smaller pistions (1.6) and has a big single turbo making much lower torque and HP than my setup.With the compound turbos my engine produces lots air flow at lower rpm and having bigger pistons ony helps push the head off.
The last dyno 2 years ago my engine produced 161 whp @ 4250 and 225 torque @ 4000 on only 30 psi and 86cc's fueling and no head or gasket issues.
Now The fueling is 120cc's boost is 50 psi the engine now pulled well past 4500 RPM you do the math?
-
The head is just not up to the challenge for these high hp IDI's.The coolant ports and pre chamber are the week spots.We would need 6 head bolts per cylinder to have any hope of keeping the aluminum from flexing.
All 4 cylinders are leaking so an intake manifold will not fix that.
Daves setup is completely different to mine his engine has smaller pistions (1.6) and has a big single turbo making much lower torque and HP than my setup.With the compound turbos my engine produces lots air flow at lower rpm and having bigger pistons ony helps push the head off.
The last dyno 2 years ago my engine produced 161 whp @ 4250 and 225 torque @ 4000 on only 30 psi and 86cc's fueling and no head or gasket issues.
Now The fueling is 120cc's boost is 50 psi the engine now pulled well past 4500 RPM you do the math?
:shock:
hmmm have you tried o-ringing it? (would need to o-ring the coolant ports)
what about running evans coolant with the cap drilled out to run it at 0 psi?
guess theres probably no way of keeping the stock head with your setup then? :(
-
Nothing more can be done to the head but we are pondering the idea of making a steel cyl head :roll: .
-
Nothing more can be done to the head but we are pondering the idea of making a steel cyl head :roll: .
What about a bigger head stud using arp custom age 625, and then ~ 150 ft lbs clamping force? Another common thing to do in the cummins world is to use a .020 overbore HG on the stock cylinder size, seems to help seal as well. If you goto the work of a custom steal head at least goto cross flow. If I was going that crazy I would take a honda B or K series head and model it after that but with swirl chambers instead of spark plugs, as they are known for there head flow, with 300cfm+ a port on stock ports. Alas that is getting a little crazy.
-
this is getting crazy. But I like it :twisted:
Don't get discouraged and keep brainstorming.
-
Well, If you're going to make a custom head, how about making a custom casting for a block/head combo as a single unit? Have to make it so the pistons can slide in the bottom and it would make machining valve seats a bit of a pain, but would eliminate the headgasket and it's resultant issues entirely. :lol:
Andrew
thats a really interesting idea... seems like it would be wayyyyy too complicated though :(
getting the precups in there would be a PITA :lol:
i wonder how hard it would be to weld the head right on???
-
The IDI will never run again :cry:, its prechamber design that we enlarged really weakens the head also every point between the headbolts flexes up and thats with 14mm headstuds.
We are going to build up an ALH TDI and make a cyl head for it.Higher hp TDI's have the same head issues so we figured make a iron head for it instead.The direct injected setup is easier on the head/gasket and is overall stronger due to not having the prechamber and easier to make.We might even use long studs to hold the head and main bearing caps together like the tractor pullers do.Custom main caps/Girdle.
Does anyone have any thoughts on running the TDI engine on a single spring injector setup with the opening pressure setup like an IDI at 155 bar?
Would the lower pressure still atomize the fuel well enough.The reason I was thinking of this was that aparently the M-TDI pump has fueling limitations for high hp 200+ Perhaps Tintin would know this :) .I would Possibly use the exact same pump thats on my IDI with the IDI camplate for better revibility and higher fuel delivery on the TDI.
-
Sad day for IDI, two of the big ($$$$ and Time, R&D) motor's are dead, and will not be revived. In the light of this I'm putting a celling on IDI power at about 200hp. Both of these cars produced ~200hp but neither could live for any length of time with it.
So for everyone pushing for a powerful, reliable, IDI I would call it quits at about 170. If you are down for the $$$$ and time it takes to push the limit, absolutely I applaud your effort.
-
Sad day for IDI, two of the big ($$$$ and Time, R&D) motor's are dead, and will not be revived. In the light of this I'm putting a celling on IDI power at about 200hp. Both of these cars produced ~200hp but neither could live for any length of time with it.
So for everyone pushing for a powerful, reliable, IDI I would call it quits at about 170. If you are down for the $$$$ and time it takes to push the limit, absolutely I applaud your effort.
Damn :(
I´m still running my Scirocco almost daily. Broke the first 02A at weekend, but other one is coming. Still looking for more hp´s...
-
you should talk to the pump builder over in the Czech republic. i bought a pump off someone who had it built over there for m-TDI (got it from vw4motion - peter). just ask Giles when he tested my pump to see how much fuel it was delivering. :lol: he said with how much fuel it was putting out, it would have ate my engine :shock: and because there was practically zero pressure inside the pump, the dynamic advance would have took a dump. glad i had him check it over :lol: i'm sure he could reproduce the fueling and have the dynamic timing work as it should.
-
Does anyone have any thoughts on running the TDI engine on a single spring injector setup with the opening pressure setup like an IDI at 155 bar?
I had posted a question about this a while back: http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13400&highlight=
Although I would think the pressure should be a bit higher, like a middle ground between the TDI's initial break pressure and the 2nd stage break pressure. Keep the injection event as short as possible for optimum timing and RPM's. It'd probably be loud as hell but who cares? :)
Brendan
-
Sad day for IDI, two of the big ($$$$ and Time, R&D) motor's are dead, and will not be revived. In the light of this I'm putting a celling on IDI power at about 200hp. Both of these cars produced ~200hp but neither could live for any length of time with it.
So for everyone pushing for a powerful, reliable, IDI I would call it quits at about 170. If you are down for the $$$$ and time it takes to push the limit, absolutely I applaud your effort.
Damn :(
I´m still running my Scirocco almost daily. Broke the first 02A at weekend, but other one is coming. Still looking for more hp´s...
yeah... i think people forget about your car too often haha.
-
we need MORE pics!!!!!!!
-
I´m still running my Scirocco almost daily. Broke the first 02A at weekend, but other one is coming. Still looking for more hp´s...
1,7 is history. Con rod was broken and everything is junk now :? The best 1/4 mile is 14,5/166kmh now, there could be a little more power than in dyno last year.
-
This is all so wonderfully deranged! Keep it up! :twisted:
-
1,7 is history. Con rod was broken and everything is junk now :?
sad to hear that :(
-
I´m still running my Scirocco almost daily. Broke the first 02A at weekend, but other one is coming. Still looking for more hp´s...
1,7 is history. Con rod was broken and everything is junk now :? The best 1/4 mile is 14,5/166kmh now, there could be a little more power than in dyno last year.
:shock: thats bad, how much kilometers did you drove with the gt23v?
what will you do now???
i wish you much luck mate!!!
Greetz, Benjamin
-
I´m still running my Scirocco almost daily. Broke the first 02A at weekend, but other one is coming. Still looking for more hp´s...
1,7 is history. Con rod was broken and everything is junk now :? The best 1/4 mile is 14,5/166kmh now, there could be a little more power than in dyno last year.
:shock: thats bad, how much kilometers did you drove with the gt23v?
what will you do now???
i wish you much luck mate!!!
Greetz, Benjamin
With gt23v ~40kkm max, with that engine ~5-7kkm. 16-20vt gasser would be nice, Vw diesels just cannot handle/make enough power. 240hp at 900kg car is not much :lol:
-
16-20vt gasser would be nice,
almost all of my "diesel friends" (and me) want turbo gasser as their next project car ;)
-
Its very hard to make reliable power (200+whp) on the vw diesels IDI or TDI and thats just the kind of challenge I'm still up for :wink: .
-
Well, if a Hbeam forged conrod bent, was this on very high rpm, or how did it happened, was it realy the conrod wich couldnt take the power becouse of the high compression ratio what you need to make it start, or was the problem wrong injection timing or so, just thinking what the cause is...
My friend got an Opel Speedster, 900kg and about +200whp now, including his driving skills, he kill most porsche's at the track, and not only the old one's :wink:
Greetz, Benjamin
-
So how does someone go about getting an iron cylinder head? :twisted:
-
Mabye one could cast an iron head and machine it :wink: .How about an ALH TDI head to be exact with no place for glow plugs :wink: :wink:
-
to keep on dreaming: 16v crossflow with central injector location :)
-
I know one who is going to try gasser 16 valve head :wink: Tdi though.
-
gasser heads are even more flimsy than diesels, hes doing it for the flow right?
I guess this is all about the maximum pressure inside the chamber
-
Would a hx35 be alright as the high flow turbo on a compound set-up? I really think the small turbo needs the have an external wastegate to keep the exhaust manifold pressure from flexing the head.
Personally, although I have no proof, I would keep intake ports virtually untouched, precups as well, and port the crap out of the exhaust ports. I'd keep the IP pump less than 10mm. Then a compound could work.
I will do it. Mark my words. Now I have to learn to weld :roll: .
-
I think you would have better luck with the HY35 over the HX.
I like your thinking though.
Been thinking a small set of compounds would be better.
Like a k14 over a k27 or T3/t4 equivalent. Fast spooling of the 14 combined with the flow of the 27.
-
I would try blocking off the wastegate on the k14 and running a large external wg to bypass the k14 at higher flows. It seems that lately the people who have been getting the extreme power figures lately and even 935's black widow engine all had very aggressively ported exhausts and haven't really had head issues. :?:
What are the differences between the hx and hy holsets?
-
seat leon with 1.9 tdi 150hp engine:
(http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/2294/teste306cvreduzidofj0.jpg)
many more of this kind in portugal and they seem to hold the head :?:
-
I would try blocking off the wastegate on the k14 and running a large external wg to bypass the k14 at higher flows. It seems that lately the people who have been getting the extreme power figures lately and even 935's black widow engine all had very aggressively ported exhausts and haven't really had head issues. :?:
What are the differences between the hx and hy holsets?
That sounds like a very good option
The HY35 has a small 9cm exhaust housing. I'm unsure what size the HX is but it's much larger especially if you consider in the 1.6 liters of air we are displacing compared to the 5.9 liters it's designed for.
-
seat leon with 1.9 tdi 150hp
what turbo is it? custom PD injectors?
-
dont know the specs but in portugal is very usual prepared tdi´s run more than 200hp.
they street race them all the time and they seems to hold many km at full rpm without many issues.at least that is known.
-
dont know the specs but in portugal is very usual prepared tdi´s run more than 200hp.
they street race them all the time and they seems to hold many km at full rpm without many issues.at least that is known.
yes, also in Poland there are many tdis over 200hp... but 300hp is not this same as 200hp :)
-
well, check the you tube for videos in the ponte vasco da gama and you will see that they move good as well :twisted:
+300 is not the same as 200 but there is more and more going over that 300 mark :shock:
-
I think you would have better luck with the HY35 over the HX.
I like your thinking though.
Been thinking a small set of compounds would be better.
Like a k14 over a k27 or T3/t4 equivalent. Fast spooling of the 14 combined with the flow of the 27.
The k14 and the merc 3 litre diesel T3 would work very well I think.I ran the k14 with the hx30w and it worked well too.
-
The k14 wastegate is big enough even for small compounds.The k14 is small so I could run it to the point where the wastegate was fully open and it still just kept the turbo spinning where it need to be.A big wastegate or bypass valve is only neccesary for a sequential setup where the bigger turbo takes over from the small one.
The hy35 turbine (9cm) is plenty big enough our engines the hx35 turbine at (12cm) is way too big even for compound.The hx30 has a 6cm housing.keep in mind that each of the corresponding turbine housings are matched with a turbine wheel that flows accordingly :wink:
-
I can't get the pic links to work? I wanted to study the pics again. Does anyone have them saved?