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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: brandon5 on April 20, 2010, 03:51:17 pm

Title: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 20, 2010, 03:51:17 pm
So i have a 1.9td with a t3 turbo and intercooler. My question is how do i run a boost controller. Im still kinda noob. I have a boost gauge and its reading around 8 or 9. It has a wastegate off the manifold, and i have the manual boost controller. just need assistance for how to hook it up.

Pics for clicks

(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/Lowered005copy.jpg)

(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/Picture008.jpg)

(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/Lowered001.jpg)

(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/Lowered002.jpg)

(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/Lowered004.jpg)
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: rabbitman on April 20, 2010, 04:00:06 pm
Very nice car!! :o
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 20, 2010, 04:11:04 pm
Thank you :)
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 20, 2010, 05:06:43 pm
Any help appreciated.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: smoken u on April 20, 2010, 06:04:36 pm
where abouts in ontario are you, lol noticed your plate,  swear i may have seen that car before... anywhoo ok first thing first, take the blow offf valve on the intake and disble it, remove the brass screw out of the top, remove the spring inside, and replace it with a bolt of approximately the same length, then re-install the brass screw in to the top of the blow off valve.

Now to turn up the boost on the t3, i cant say ive personally done, i had a K24 which is different, so i will draw upon my knowkedge of the cummins 5.9 and hopefully it works, but please reasearch first lol, on the cummins which is an HX 35, what i did was install a small valve in the line supplying the wastegate with its pressure (the line on the compresor side of the turbo that runs to the wastegate) this valve limits the amount of pressure able to enter the wastegatem which changes its opening pressure.

i hope this helps some. lol
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: Smokey Eddy on April 20, 2010, 06:31:35 pm
What smoken u said im pretty sure is all you gotta do.
If you want to totally disable any boost control and just boost according to fueling, which you control with the pump, you can block that rubber hose on the T3 anywhere you like. if you can find a bolt that fits the hole you can use that with some teflon tape. I personally filled the little brass fitting that's in there with JB weld.
some people think im a dumb ass for doing it but i don't intend on running the car with lots of fuel on the track. its just nice to know im getting max boost for how much fuel im throwing at it and therefore burning it as cleanly as my components can do so. pushing the mileage up a bit.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/SSPX0304.jpg)
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: MJF on April 20, 2010, 06:53:12 pm
Smokey Eddy is right, disabling wastegate is dumb ass. You need boost control and fuelling is not way to do it. Sure you can do it, but you wont get decent power that way.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 20, 2010, 07:20:02 pm
Ok so i can either block the waste gate, or block the tube coming off the t3. But where do i hook up the boost controller.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: Patrick on April 21, 2010, 12:39:21 am
cut into teh line between the two and put a "T" fitting in. Put the contol valve at the end so you can have a controlled "leak" in the system to fool the wastegate into thinking it has less boost than it really does. more leak, more boost. No leak, same boost you've got now. Simple.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on April 21, 2010, 01:49:33 am
unless your controller is a 'ball and spring' type, then you just splice it in that line, withe the ball toward the intake.
if you have a T3 with two hoses, some extra fiddling is called for, as you have to compensate for the engineered 'leak' which is supposed to be cooling the wastegate.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on April 21, 2010, 08:12:12 am
What smoken u said im pretty sure is all you gotta do.
If you want to totally disable any boost control and just boost according to fueling, which you control with the pump, you can block that rubber hose on the T3 anywhere you like. if you can find a bolt that fits the hole you can use that with some teflon tape. I personally filled the little brass fitting that's in there with JB weld.
some people think im a dumb ass for doing it but i don't intend on running the car with lots of fuel on the track. its just nice to know im getting max boost for how much fuel im throwing at it and therefore burning it as cleanly as my components can do so. pushing the mileage up a bit.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/SSPX0304.jpg)

you can actually have too much boost for a certain amount of fuel. my rabbit used to push 35 psi on a stock un modded n/a fuel pump, doesnt mean it was right, or got good fuel mileage. my car gets better mileage at 25 psi with tons of fuel than it did with 35 psi and almost no fuel. i would run a boost controller (if i could that is) your car will be faster to a certain point with boost, then it will actually be slower. it takes more force to compress 25 psi of air then it does to compress 8 psi of air. the piston is undoubtedly going to slow down more with the more boost and same amount of fuel. maximum boost is not always the best bet.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 21, 2010, 11:14:07 am
I still cant fully grasp the idea so i posted some new pics of my setup. I wish i wasnt so noob.

Thanks guys
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: rabbitman on April 21, 2010, 12:28:09 pm
You'll have to do something about that BOV.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 21, 2010, 12:28:59 pm
The wastegate? I dont run a bov.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: rabbitman on April 21, 2010, 12:34:06 pm
Sure looks like one to me, sitting on the t-belt side of the intake mani.......
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: truckinwagen on April 21, 2010, 12:36:31 pm
many stock TD manifolds have a pressure release valve on them(not really a BOV, as the function is very different)

if you plan on boosting past stock levels, you should disable/remove the release valve, as it will vent all the extra boost.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: rabbitman on April 21, 2010, 12:42:29 pm
many stock TD manifolds have a pressure release valve on them(not really a BOV, as the function is very different)

if you plan on boosting past stock levels, you should disable/remove the release valve, as it will vent all the extra boost.

That's kinda what I said ;D :P
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 21, 2010, 03:13:32 pm
Really? i thought that was the wastegate? Can i disable it without taking it out?
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: rabbitman on April 21, 2010, 03:29:39 pm
Follow the 3/8" rubber hose on the compressor and it will lead you to the wastegate actuator.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: Syncroincity on April 21, 2010, 08:18:52 pm
Did the boost controller come with a in-line pill for the boost line? You need this for it to work... It will be a small piece, in & out nipples, and a pinhole orifice in the side of it. That is your calibrated leak. What you need to do is put the pill & the adjustable valve in the boost sense line (small rubber hose, coming from the turbo outlet that goes to the wastegate actuator can. Picture #3 is looking right at it. This tells the wastegate when to open). The order of hose connections should be; Turbo Outlet - Pill in - Pill out - Boost Control valve in - Boost valve out - Wastegate in.

The valve regulates how much boost sense pressure gets dumped out by the pill. This "fools" the wastegate into staying closed longer, which builds more boost. The more restricted the valve (usually turned "in") more sense line pressure leaks out,  the higher the boost pressure builds, until the wastegate reads 8 psi and opens... the line pressure at the wastegate will never actually change; it stays at the factory setting. :) This won't eliminate that pressure relief (BOV) from stepping in and killing the boost, take that off and block off the hole, you'll never build boost while that is attached to the intake manifold, it'll just vent.

Just make sure the pill is between the turbo and the valve. Start with the valve wide open, then adjust in small increments until you see the boost build up to where you want.  An Exhaust Temp gauge is also highly recommended when tuning up these motors... Go slow with the adjustments, or you'll be walking home.


Have fun!
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 21, 2010, 09:52:57 pm
So your pretty much saying i have to take it out or disable it? And the ports actually do line up i assembled everything my self. Thanks for the detailed reply Syncroincity ill be sure to re-read it tomorrow and see what i have to work with. Im way to tired to think about this right now.

Thanks everyone. If i get it workin ill be sure to post up a video with proof.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: Syncroincity on April 21, 2010, 10:20:57 pm
Quote from Harry Mann in another post;

"The BOV is there to limit boost runaway if the wastegate fails, usually set to about 12 psi on VW TDs, and because peeps like to boost a bit more than that usually, they either block it or remove it and blank the inlet manifold hole off. Else it self defeats the overboost work. I find a wine bottle cork (of the synthetic kind) fits perfectly in the BOV."
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: rabbitman on April 22, 2010, 11:47:11 am
I wonder if it's a aaz bottom with a 1.6 head????
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 22, 2010, 02:22:14 pm
Its not its a 1.9 head. But i have both the intake side by side and they were the exact same.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 22, 2010, 06:01:11 pm
Shoooooot man maybe i was on drugs at the time. Ugh that makes me mad, kinda wanna punch a baby in the face. How difficult do you think it would be to swap the manifolds out? Will my car be slower with the manifold i have now?
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: Syncroincity on April 22, 2010, 09:09:17 pm
Swap won't be very difficult, but those Allen bolts in the middle are hard to reach with the exhaust manifold in place, probably best to take it off first. Find the right intake, and order the correct gasket. Your car will be limited to 12psi boost thru that intake with the BOV in the system, unless you block it off...
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 22, 2010, 10:23:47 pm
Whats the easiest way to block it off? and i have the right manifold in my trunk. im just a retard kinda. Well thanks guys im gonna try and swap that out then crank boost. Does that mean the wastegate is on the t3?
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 22, 2010, 10:59:01 pm
Do you mean the top part of the intake? i think it'll fit. Am i harming the engine running it with this intake? Cause i might wait till i can afford a temp gauge for the down pipe, so i can kill 2 birds with one stone. And is there a site i can order the bolts for the exaughst mani from?
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 23, 2010, 08:58:32 am
Yeah thats what i meant. I hope i dont strip any bolts taking this out... Whats the easiest way?
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on April 23, 2010, 09:19:02 pm
Bump
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on April 24, 2010, 09:59:39 am
whatever way it comes off in one piece is the best way. quit waiting around for someone to answer your question, and go tackle the project. vw's are not rocket science. and you never need a pry bar to take anything apart on a VW engine, just so you know. if it doesnt slip right apart, you missed a bolt.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: Syncroincity on April 24, 2010, 06:13:49 pm
+1 ^^^ :D   Do it. You heard me, do it.

Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: sprstu on April 24, 2010, 06:27:47 pm
I think the piece youre having a hard time seeing is this;
on the 'cold side' of your turbo there is a little pipe. That pipe does not put air into your engine, rather, it is used to activate the wastegate. the wastegate has a little pressure sensing diaphragm that opens and closes a little door on the 'hot side' or 'exhaust side' of the turbo. Now, what this is doing is diverting the exhaust around past the 'hot side' fan blades thus tricking the turbo into boosting less. That wastegate door is opened and closed by the little pipe on the 'cold side' of the turbo acording to hyow much boost the turbo is making at the time.

example: (not technically accurate)
Turbo boost= 5psi ----> wastegate opens= 10%  Turbo boost= 20psi ----> wastegate open=90%
All it does is prevent too mush boost for the situation.

SO, when you install a boost regulator what you are doing is putting something in-line between the 'cold side' and the wastegate tricking the wastgate into opening less, or more depending, than is would normally there by giving you MORE boost.Tricking the wastegate into opening less allows more of the exhaust to flow over the 'hot-side' fan (exhaust turbine) causing the whole turbo to make more boost.


makes sense? 
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: jettaman8691 on April 29, 2010, 08:14:14 pm
Definitely a BOV on there.  That also means that someone mounted a 1.6TD manifold and the ports don't match up to the head.


Hello Libby; I remember your advice (great) form the Hagar book.  Question; I have a 1.6td intake manifold from an '82 Quantum on my hydraulic head 1.6td from an '89 Jetta.  If I understand you correctly, I need to find a different intake manifold?
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: burn_your_money on April 29, 2010, 08:27:42 pm
The 1.9 intake manifold needs a bit of trimming to make fit with a T3. There is a piece that sticks out that has a threaded hole in it. That needs to be cut off. I don't think it serves any purpose in real life. You don't need to grind away a cutout or anything in the manifold.

On my 1.9NA I am using a 1.6 intake manifold. There is barely enough gasket material to make it seal. Personally I would be worried about it under boost, especially above stock levels.
Title: Re: Boost controller help
Post by: brandon5 on May 06, 2010, 10:27:00 pm
Thanks guys sorry if im sounding naggy. Ive just put alot of money into it and when it comes to touching the engine i get scared. Without you guys it wouldn't be running.

Thanks again