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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: jack's lack on January 22, 2010, 05:01:51 am
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Alright, so now that I have the AAZ in and running, it is clear that my current setup is not going to work. When I get above 10psi my clutch just starts slipping.
It is a Sachs stage1 with less than 5,000 miles on it used in conjunction with a 16v pressure plate and a 9lb flywheel. (210mm)
I can find some performance kits online as upgrades sold as stage 2, 3 & 4. They are described by how much HP they can handle presumably from a gasser.
It seems like torque would be a far more useful value in this case. What kind of numbers would an AAZ with my setup be making roughly anyway? (I am shooting for 20psi)
I think I need to go up to a 6 puck with a sprung center and the next step up for the pressure plate. Will this hold?
Should I step it up from organic to a cerametalic? or to sintered?
The other thing I am thinking is that if I am going to spend nearly $500 on a new clutch setup, maybe I should think about swapping trannys. I don't think my 5th is tall enough for the freeway.
I will see if I can find the number on my 020 so at least we will know what I am working with.
Just as a lark, what is involved in going up to a 6spd box in a MK1?
Those of you that are happy with your setups let me know what you are running, where you got it and how much you paid.
Cheers,
Ryan
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I use to run a Clutchnet three puck disc with a stock pressure plate on an 83 GTI 1.8 (Built) plus a 100hp shot of nitrous. It held but axles, but stock 9A, and 4K transmissions did not. Killed the diff rivots in both cases. Finally got a Quaif Diff which held, but didn't stop the axles from snapping. I am pretty new to performance diesels but it sounds like you will need to keep moving the money around the car untill everything is strong enough to hold. Sounds like I need an AAZ. My stock 1.6 gets to 10psi my stock clutch holds fine.
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here you go Ebay 290386672942
You will have to put 100 mm inners on like I did
P.S. your hose shipped via mail
GB
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Okay Trans code is FN (January 29, 1982 is the date on it)
which means I have a .71 5th gear and a final drive of 3.89. So it is actually one of the better ones
Gee Bee man what do you do hang out on the internet all day searching for all the good stuff?
That transmission CHD has a .75 5th gear and a final drive of 3.67
So at 80mph they are essentially the same only a few RPM better for the CHD
(http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu107/kaputtschlagen/FNleftCHDright.jpg)
FN is on the left CHD is on the right
My question is, can I put a 3.67 final drive (Ring and Pinion) in my transmission, or modify a CHD to have a .71 5th gear ?
(http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu107/kaputtschlagen/FNleftCHDmodRight.jpg)
FN on left, FN with 3.67 R&P is on the right
What is involved in doing this?
in either of the latter scenarios at 70 to 80mph we are looking at a drop of about 200RPM which I think would be a step in the right direction
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I was first thinking of a FF code, then I found this later style trans and installed a Peloquin
P.S. Yes I pretty much sit in a comfy chair selling aircraft seals most of the day!
I'am just two blocks from the beach and four blocks from the Pier here in So cal
I paid 450.00 for a complete overhaul plus new transaxles and the PQ diff.
I told Giles to set my pump for 17psi, I traded him a new T3 for the overhaul.
I wanted a bulletproof trans since I knew of the upgrades later.
If you need me to ship that trans, I know if we ship Fed Ex ground it will save you some money, sell yours for 150.00..
GB
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GB, that sounds very nice, I am a little jealous.
How the hell did you get a PQ differential and an overhaul for $450? I have seen the Peloquin LSD for over $700 alone.
I'm thinking if I go frankenstein on a transmission, I might as well upgrade to a LSD too.
do these projects ever end?
btw thanks for the hook up on that hose, I will let you know when it arrives.
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That was the price for just the OHC, I found a new in the box PQ O20 ( bad listing ) on ebay for under 350.00
Sometime sellers dont list there item on ebay correctly, it's all about how you search,The new T3 cost me less than 325.00.
The T3 was worth 1165.00, So the Giles pump OHC was a deal !
I used to broker aircraft parts when I was twenty, I have been in the aviation field since 79
I designed a seal for aircraft mfg ( Battery Box ) that paid for 2008 997TT
My son and I have done three caddy restorations, the last Lt blue one is owned by a TDI Jetta Cup driver.
It has been shown often on the Vw vortex....
Stay Tuned and dont touch that Dial !
GB
Here to help other people and I blessed that my aircraft customers pay for everything...
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where can i find that trans calculator?
i'm running and acn in my rabbit truck with a 1.6t pushing 22psi through a k24 and intercooler.. i run a stock disc with a gli pressure plate. 210mm and have no slipping problems.. only when i put my feet on all three petals to lit the turbo and spin the tires.. ha!! its done that a few times though.. and it would boost creep to 25 psi in fourth.. still no slip.. i think your flywheel needed surfaced or something..
and if you don't believe me ask foxracer1 on here... he'll tell you.. he was killing clutch disc but thats because he likes to johnny hot step the clutch..
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where can i find that trans calculator?
i'm running and acn in my rabbit truck with a 1.6t pushing 22psi through a k24 and intercooler.. i run a stock disc with a gli pressure plate. 210mm and have no slipping problems.. only when i put my feet on all three petals to lit the turbo and spin the tires.. ha!! its done that a few times though.. and it would boost creep to 25 psi in fourth.. still no slip.. i think your flywheel needed surfaced or something..
and if you don't believe me ask foxracer1 on here... he'll tell you.. he was killing clutch disc but thats because he likes to johnny hot step the clutch..
#1 murder of clutches for sure. i found out that when i quit dumpin the clutch, it worked alot better daily driving. its kinda cool watchin your boost gauge go from damn near zero, to 25-30 psi pretty much instantly when you let the clutch fly.
my setup is a 16v plate, gas 8v wheel, and 210mm 8v sachs clutch.
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ya sounding like an old man when i say this but its hard on stuff just steeping off thats fo sure.. i'm a load and leave kind of guy.. ha
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the only time i am really hard on my clutch is when im burning out.
yes, i know burn outs are hard on your transmission, axles, clutch, and motor mounts, but god damn, i just love fryin the tires off. i used to get maybe a full rotation from the tires when it was n/a, now it just blows the tires off. 2nd gear rubber is no problem.
120ft 2nd gear posi burn outs rock! (lol)
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trans calculator!??????
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hey patience here you go. I just googled transmission calculator and this came up.
http://www.fatboyraceworks.com/gears/index.php (http://www.fatboyraceworks.com/gears/index.php)
Well whether or not I should be having a problem I am. I am not talking about when I am touching the clutch pedal either. The slip occurs when I am cruising along in a gear and I floor it. i.e. doing 55 in 5th and stomp it the clutch slips for awhile before it will grab and I actually start accelerating. Maybe I got some coolant or oil on the damn thing during install. if the 16v pressure plate is strong enough, maybe I can get away with just stepping it up to a 6 puck ceramic clutch. The flywheel and the pressure plate were replaced with the clutch less than 5,000 miles ago and have almost all of those miles with a wimpy 1.6 NA on a giles pump. so I think the surfaces are fine.
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my setup is a 16v plate, gas 8v wheel, and 210mm 8v sachs clutch.
are these uprated parts or just standard replacement parts? is the 8v gas flywheel much different to the diesel one?
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its bigger than the 200mm clutch that comes on them factory. grabs alot better too. little harder clutch pedal resistance tho. and the flywheel is about 5 pounds lighter than the diesel flywheel. but it doesnt have diesel timing marks, so you just gotta know where to put the mark.
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sorry.. i just didn't know if you saw my whole ? was not trying to make you over work.. ha.. THANKS!
i'd say you got something on the clutch.. oil, coolant, diesel fuel.. anything and it won't help.. the trans input shaft seal could be leaking even?
16v clutch and 8v pressure are stock available stuff.. you can get fancy but i haven't needed too.. not saying there is not a need for it.. foxracer1 was a solid hub 200 from a air cooled beetle disc in his.. he was going to try a 6 puck but everyone said it was going to be too much of an on off switch.. no slip!
you weight the gas flywheels? i always wondered myself? which on did you weight though? the 210mm ones out of jetta three's and golf's three's are thicker up by the starter teeth.. thicker then even the regular diesel flywheels.. i figured it was heaver.. never got the scale out though.. that's the one i'm running.. the thick one.. lighter is better to rev it up.. but diesels are torque so i want to go with the whole rotating mass thing.. keep it heavy.. foxracer1 got a lighten 210 to put in his car.. we really cant tell to much of a difference? the dyno will tell..
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the mk2 gasser flys are considerably lighter. i never got an actual weight, but hand in hand, the gasser fly is alot lighter. its got almost a half inch less metal on the engine side of the ring gear. the trans side looks just like a normal stock flywheel. and yes, it did make my engine very rev happy. my diesel has better throttle response than my gas GTI. with the exact same flywheel and stuff.
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16v clutch and 8v pressure are stock available stuff.. you can get fancy but i haven't needed too..
i've been trying to find more info on these clutches on the net but it's come up with mixed results, do all mk2 8v GTI's come with the 210mm clutch?
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yep, all mk2(and 1.8 mk1) gassers use a 210mm clutches.
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I've had junk clutches. Springs in a new sachs 8v disc came apart driving on the high way. It tore up my trans and caused me headaches. Techtonics still has yet to take care of this for me.
I do burnouts here and there and if it can't take that i'll find something that will. Thats just how i drive. Stock replacement clutches are not up to the task to handle any built diesel.
A solid hub disc is actually smoother engaging than any sprung clutch i've used. The springs fully compress and rebound so quiclky due to the diesels vibrations making it chatter and it fatigues the springs and they fail.
I'm not sure how a puck clutch will act may be to harsh? Only one way to know.
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I emailed clutchnet and told them my issues and setup. Hopefully they can make a suggestion.
I think I may buy that transmission and swap my .71 5th in it and then look for a LSD and hook it up with the ARP bolts
and go up to the larger driveshafts.
GB if you find another steal on a Peloquin or a Quaife LSD let me know please.
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I think a 9a with a 3.89 final drive and the add on 6spd setup(rare i know) with a .71 6th would be sweet! Peloquin or a Quaife LSD and ARP bolt kit. Already got 100mm cvs.
1st-3.45; 2nd-2.12; 3rd-1.44; 4th-1.13; 5th-.89; 6th-.71
Nice close ratios and good up top.
Maybe a 3.67 with the .71 if i had a TDI or 1.9 AAZ.
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I think a 9a with a 3.89 final drive and the add on 6spd setup(rare i know) with a .71 6th would be sweet! Peloquin or a Quaife LSD and ARP bolt kit. Already got 100mm cvs.
1st-3.45; 2nd-2.12; 3rd-1.44; 4th-1.13; 5th-.89; 6th-.71
Nice close ratios and good up top.
Maybe a 3.67 with the .71 if i had a TDI or 1.9 AAZ.
3.67 really isnt too bad with a .75 fifth. least i dont think so, i like it alot better than .89
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I agree that what i have now. But a .71 eith a 3.67 would be to tall with my set up. Unless you drove 80+ mph. Now a 3.89 with a .71 would be very close to the same as the 3.67 with a .75 and yet the 3.89 would give a lower gears down low. I've always thought reverse was to tall too.
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I agree that what i have now. But a .71 eith a 3.67 would be to tall with my set up. Unless you drove 80+ mph. Now a 3.89 with a .71 would be very close to the same as the 3.67 with a .75 and yet the 3.89 would give a lower gears down low. I've always thought reverse was to tall too.
reverse is way the F*** too tall... period. and it gets way worse with 3.67s.
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I agree that what i have now. But a .71 eith a 3.67 would be to tall with my set up. Unless you drove 80+ mph. Now a 3.89 with a .71 would be very close to the same as the 3.67 with a .75 and yet the 3.89 would give a lower gears down low. I've always thought reverse was to tall too.
reverse is way the F*** too tall... period. and it gets way worse with 3.67s.
I had not considered this, and mine often shudders with my 3.89.
I still think .71 + 3.67 combo would be the stuff on the highway. It says E instead of 5 on the knob after all ;)
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I will keep you posted, Your first on my List !
GB
P.S .Ooh and it's no my *** list I might add !
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yep, all mk2(and 1.8 mk1) gassers use a 210mm clutches.
does any one know if the 16v fly wheels would work with the diesel engine and box?
i've just bought both 16v and 8v clutch kits to mix and match with the intention of using the fly wheel off my project 8v GTI, only to find out after pulling the engine and box that it only has a 200mm clutch fitted to it :-\
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it *SHOULD* work, but dont quote me on it. i used a 16v PP and 8v FW, but idk why you couldnt use the 16v FW.
how old of a GTI are you working with to have a 200mm clutch? something really old appearently. cause im pretty sure when the 1.8L engine came out, so did the 210 clutch.
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after a bit of searching i found that the 1.6 GTI engine came with a 200mm clutch and i can only assume that this is what this engine is that i have got. i got it from a mate who bought a car that had been converted to this engine and he was told it was a 1.8 so that was what i was assuming it was. i guess that's the risk you take when you buy an engine with no history.
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someone probably just used the 200mm clutch off the 1.6 engine. probably had no idea that the 1.8 had a bigger clutch.
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trans calculator!??????
how abouts a vw version
http://www.scirocco.org/gears/ (http://www.scirocco.org/gears/)