VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: brandon5 on January 20, 2010, 02:31:33 pm
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Ok so my swap is nearly complete. Just a few more minor details... plus the entire mk3 dash swap
So here are some pictures.
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td001.jpg)
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td002.jpg)
rats nest wiring
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td006.jpg)
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td007.jpg)
old dash
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td005.jpg)
new dash
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td004.jpg)
dual rad fan cut to fit
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td010.jpg)
t3
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td003.jpg)
trunk storage
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td008.jpg)
headliner
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td009.jpg)
I still dont know what to do with this stuff. If i already have a wastegate on the turbo what do i do with the wiring?
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td011.jpg)
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td014.jpg)
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/19td015.jpg)
Ill try and post pics as i get closer with my progress.
Any help i can get will be awsome. Seeing as i wanna drive this fricken
thing.
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Congrats, looks pretty good :)
Is there a way you can host pictures right to your post? instead of links? makes viewing a little easier.
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Ya sorry about that :-\ Image shack wasnt to good to me. Ill check it out tomorrow. If i get new pics too. But i need to know about the wastegate wiring first.
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pictures put up right. I need help with this people!!!!
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a lot of the wiring isn't really necessary. looks like you have a very newer style 1.9 though! where did you get it? i wonder if the 505 00 oil sticker on the valve cover is stock?
im not sure why you took the whole dash off? but while you're in there i highly recommend throwing in a new heater core (and i'm not kidding...) because if it hasn't already been replaced, it will need to be eventually. i also recommend rebuilding the heater box with new foam to help with the cold winters.
it also looks to me like your wastegate is vacuum controlled. that IS a good thing! good by you can control your boost to whatever you wish. there are PWM circuits available on ebay that you can use to control your boost from inside the cab. PWM circuits with variable frequency are like fast switches. the faster they go, the more times the switch is activated meaning the wastegate is opened more. the lower the frequency or even off, the more the wastegate is closed or fully closed. this gives you some really finite boost control. Giles bought one, and his setup is pretty slick 8)
if you're tight on cash and really want this thing going, then just leave those wires alone and get a boost gauge. keep the boost levels to around 15 psi max until you get a feel of the engine, and the amount of smoke coming out the tailpipe. the boost pressure alone won't damage the engine, but too much fuel and boost will.
as for the solenoids on the pump, some can be given 12v all the time to negate their functions (theres one that retards the timing to reduce NOx etc...) it's really that easy. i'm sure others with more knowledge of how to 'trick' these newer style pumps will chime in though. it almost looks as if your pump has that plunger position sensor too...
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I took the whole dash out because im replacing it with a mk3 dash :) ill check the heater core and stuff to. I filled it up with all the fluids it needed and tried to start it but nothing happend :( The only thing i can think of is a relay missing for the computer. Its labeled number 30 on the chart. I also have a few other questions about some tubes coming off the turbo but ill put them up tomorrow.
thanks alot
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That wastegate stuff can just be deleted. It's an emissions thing that disables your turbo.
There is no computer for that engine. Just power to the stop solenoid away you go. Glowplugs help of course...
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i wonder if the 505 00 oil sticker on the valve cover is stock?
I have the same sticker on my AAZ in my B3 Passat out of Germany. Mine does not have the lda and the EGR setup is different.
Do you have a mk3 speedo cluster to go with the dash?
Ian
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Im kinda of a complete noob but whats a stop solenoid? I just remember seeing in the bently something about an ecm relay. and it doesn't have one in the fuse box. So im guessing i can just leave the waste gate the wiring? or just pull it from the fuse box and get rid of it?
And i have everything for the mk3 dash, cluster, heater box, everything. I have like 3 boxes full.
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The stop solenoid is on the top of the steel part of the pump, just above the injection lines. There is another similar one on the side of the pump. The top one needs power, the other one you can decide if it needs power or not. It will run just fine both ways.
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it seams i have power to everything i need and its a no go. Wont turn over, just clicks. any ideas?
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bad ground from the batt.
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Check in the FAQ for a voltage drop test. That will tell you exactly where your problem is.
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Will do. But the grounds should be fine. Im getting power cause my lights and my cluster works. Is there anyway someone can make a quick list of things that i need to get the initial turn over? That would help me out alot.
Thanks alot guys
Edit: will the drop test do anything if my engine wont even crank?
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Bumbity bump
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You could run your headlights with the ground being telephone wire. But as soon as anymore load is on it nothing. Do the drop voltage test and you should have the answer or know where to get it from there.
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lights dont take much power to run. starters and glow plugs take lots and LOTS of power to operate. my money is on a loose/bad ground. clean your batt terminals too. in a diesel, it is SUPER IMPORTANT to keep up your charging system.
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If you just want to get the engine running (to prove to yourself it will). Fuel, 12v to the stop solenoid jump 12v to starter with jump leads.
Ian
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My battery shouldn't still work seeing as i ran it with my other motor. i tested the voltage in it a few days ago and it said around 12 volts i think? Today i tried connecting jumper cables straight from the battery to the back of the starter (negative) and the power to the starter directly. And nothing happened. So i'm going to once again try charging my battery and cleaning the posts. But if that doesn't work then i'm stuck because the starter work on my other car to.
Thanks
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i swear to you. grounds.
i fought with a starter one night. changed different solenoids, different starters, everything. well the problem was the batt posts were dirty, the terminals were loose, and my connections were bad. clean all your ground connections and batt posts. ground from the battery right to an ear on the starter. then you know you have a good ground going to it.
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So i cleaned the posts and everything today. Charged the battery to full. I even hooked up jumper cables straight to the starter from the battery and nothing happened. But the lights work and my cluster still works. Im really lost now as to what it could be. What should i be looking for if the starter was working on my other 1.6 and when i swapped it, it wont even crank.
thanks
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Have you tryed to turn it over by hand at the crank shaft? Will it turn over then?
Have you bench tested the starter?
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How would i go about turning it by hand? No a bench test hasn't been done but the starter was pulled when it was working.
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Put a 19mm socket on the crank shaft bolt, and turn it clockwise/ running direction. If it will, good. The starters not lock up on the engine.
Hot wire the starter to start it to verify it works and back track from there.
It does sound like a ground issue.
You have the ground from the battery to the body and the to the engine or trans. Not a motor mount bolt.
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The bushing in the trans could be done for. If it was really bad I could see the shaft binding a bunch and not letting the starter turn as well.
BUT, I would by new 1/0 cable and replace them. It won't hurt and most of the time it is something in the connections or cables that aren't letting it go. Even if a wire looks good it could be junk somewhere on the inside. Burn you money has a write up on voltage in the FAQ...check it too if you don't just want to throw cables at it.
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So i used the 19 mm to turn it and it did work. It was kinda stiff but it did give in. After that i tried hot wiring the starter and nothing happened.
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So it still sounds like wiring or a intermitently bad starter?
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bench test the starter.
put it in a vice(or if you don't have one you can put your foot on it on the floor to keep it from jumping), wire it to a battery(jumper cables work fine for this) and jump the solenoid.
it should stick the gear out and sing as it spins, if not, or if it spins slowly, then you need a new starter.
also are you sure that you are jumping the right terminals on the starter?
some VW starters have extra spade connectors on the other side of the solenoid that don't excite it, if you are wired there it wont turn over.
-Owen
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ok ill try that tomorrow seeing as to take the starter out i have to take out the front mount to. Im pretty sure im doing it right because theres only one spot i can see to hook it up to. and thats where the battery is hooked up.
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I didn't mean that there was more than one place to hook up the cable from the battery, but rather some starters have more than one spade terminal, and that it is possible to hook up the wire from the ignition switch to the wrong one.
either way a bench test is the way to confirm a bad starter or not.
-Owen
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Im pretty sure im doing it right because theres only one spot i can see to hook it up to. and thats where the battery is hooked up.
Brandon--
I apologize if I'm assuming your knowledge of starters to be more basic than it is, but it sounds like you might not get the whole picture here:
I'm not at all familiar with MK2s, and I've never had to mess with the starter on my rabbit, BUT... on most cars simply attaching positive power to the big lug on the starter where the fat wire from the battery connect won't do anything. Think about it--if power to that lug was all that's necessary to run the starter, and it's always connected to the battery via that fat cable, then the starter would ALWAYS be trying to run. Instead what you have is a solenoid (that smaller round thing piggybacked onto the starter) that is both a giant relay and also a mechanical gizmo that physically pushes the starter's "nose" out to make it interact with the engine/trans. When you energize (power) the solenoid, it pushes the starter out and simulataneously completes the circuit in the starter--so if there is ALSO power to that big lug on the starter, the starter will spin. If you only energize the solenoid (ie, you connect your jumper to the solenoid but there is NOT a hot wire to the starter lug) you will hear/feel a solid CLICK as the solenoid pushes the starter nose out, but the starter won't turn because it doesn't have power even though the circuit has been closed.
This link explains it better:
http://www.samarins.com/glossary/starter.html (http://www.samarins.com/glossary/starter.html)
(http://www.samarins.com/glossary/starting_system5.gif)
As a safety note: Please triple make sure your car is in neutral if you go about this. If the starter is healthy and your problem is elsewhere, then energizing the solenoid with a jumper will turn the engine over even if the key's off--if you're lying under the car and it's in gear, it could be a bad scene.
Good luck.
Luke
PS I join the chorus for bad battery connections/grounds, too. 99% of the time that's been the problem.
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Ok so what im going to do is grab some pictures of the initial setup just to make sure its hooked up correctly. Im probably going to make my self look stupid in the process but i want this running.
And your completely right luke, Im still learning as i go. Its a tough process but getting these answers is making this more understanding for me.
Thanks guys.
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Ok so im going to take the starter out tomorrow and check my battery to. But just to make sure everything is right here it is.
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/DSCN0022.jpg)
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/DSCN0023.jpg)
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/DSCN0024.jpg)
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/brandon555555/DSCN0025.jpg)
Sorry for the terrible blurry pics.
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So i got the gosh darned starter out and it wound right up when i put power on it. Could it be the solonoid thats not letting it turn in the engine? Or am i having issues with the mk3 ignition.
edit. If i touch it to just the solenoid nothing happens. so i geuss its done.
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you are supposed to have power to the solenoid and the starter terminal when testing it.
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I haven't looked at my Mk3 golf, but on my 5.9 Cummins it only has a positive to the solenoid and positive to the main lug, it grounds through the case and through the rest of the engine grounds. What you need to do is hook your jumper cables pos. battery to the main lug on the starter and leave it there, nothing will happen yet, have another smaller wire (14gauge) that also goes to pos. battery and jump that to the solenoid when you want to spin it. If the starter grounds through the case likes other starters, hook it up anywhere close you can get a good ground.
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I haven't looked at my Mk3 golf, but on my 5.9 Cummins it only has a positive to the solenoid and positive to the main lug, it grounds through the case and through the rest of the engine grounds. What you need to do is hook your jumper cables pos. battery to the main lug on the starter and leave it there, nothing will happen yet, have another smaller wire (14gauge) that also goes to pos. battery and jump that to the solenoid when you want to spin it. If the starter grounds through the case likes other starters, hook it up anywhere close you can get a good ground.
this is a good way to do it for sure. and yea, the starter uses a common (engine) ground. but i like to mount a ground cable to the starter lug too.
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I have had this happen as well, if the Pos on the starter is too tight, then she won't start either, don't know why, but this has helped me numerous times in the past, even with the diesel, "when it actually ran" I set up a dual CCA battery setup in the trunk, and when I reconnected the starter to the POS wire I over-tightened it, and didn't even think that it could be possible to do this, sure as S *** that was the problem, since then this has happened on two other separate occasions.
Hope that helps,
Kevin