VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 935racer on November 10, 2005, 03:57:23 pm
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Ok so the stage 2 and 3 cams have been finalized, hardcore race cams are still in developement. So I am going to offer the first couple cams of the stage 2 and 3 models for a discounted price. But wait, there is a catch.
To qualify you need:
Install the cam proptly after receiving it.
Establish base line egts and boost in relation to rpm before and after cam install.
Post a small right up on your thoughts of the cam on both vwdiesel.net and vwvoretex.com in the specified threads.
I have tested the cams extensively with local tds and have had no issues with piston to valve clearance using stock cam timing. Passenger Performance cannot not guarantee the same reults unless we install it. If your timing is accurate you should have no problems. Cam pricing for the first couple test cams will be approx 200USD Let us know!
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hmmm
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Looks like you may be getting some more business from me in the future :roll: :lol:
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Damnit damnit damnit! I wish I had my TD and had it built. Ah well. I plan on using one of your cams after reading about the characteristics they have.
Thanks for making them!
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When yoout tests will be done and approved, I will buy one :wink:
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Sorry I can't find any info on your cams stage 2 and stage 3 doesnt mean anything to me. Do you know off hand of the specs of these Camshafts.
Thanks
Jeff
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Sorry I can't find any info on your cams stage 2 and stage 3 doesnt mean anything to me. Do you know off hand of the specs of these Camshafts.
Thanks
Jeff
Patience, grasshopper. :) There's a reason why there's "Volunteer" in the topic title.
Rather than ask the vendor to disclose their trade secret right away, I think most of us want to see the actual improvements the cams give. You could look at each cam's raw specs but that does not match up to real-world results.
I've seen good results with Passenger's cam in local cars and am really looking forward to getting one for my car, but many people here would like some vwdiesel.net volunteers to experience it and post an unbiased report online.
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Exactly mark, the idea is to get some opinions from the non locals, everybody local loves them and I think everyone else will too I just want to send a couple out and get some feedback before I start spittin a bunch out. Mark and I will do some g tech runs within the next week to try and get some baseline #'s and boost and egts in relation to rpm. Just so you all know this cam is a total bolt on and can be installed in 1-3 hours depending on your skills. I have the specs for the cam but am not willing to disclose them at this time, like mark said they are just #'s right now for everyone, lets just get some WHP results! Thanks for the complements guys, I don't mind spending the money on the r&d for a good cause. Turbo diesel power :twisted:
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Exactly mark, the idea is to get some opinions from the non locals, everybody local loves them and I think everyone else will too I just want to send a couple out and get some feedback before I start spittin a bunch out. Mark and I will do some g tech runs within the next week to try and get some baseline #'s and boost and egts in relation to rpm. Just so you all know this cam is a total bolt on and can be installed in 1-3 hours depending on your skills. I have the specs for the cam but am not willing to disclose them at this time, like mark said they are just #'s right now for everyone, lets just get some WHP results! Thanks for the complements guys, I don't mind spending the money on the r&d for a good cause. Turbo diesel power :twisted:
I always thought that performance cams (in gassers at least) sacrificed slow running stability; which makes me wonder just how much one of these would make a relatively 'lumpy' engine shake severely. :shock:
Whilst you quite rightly don't want to publish the profile/timing characteristics of your design; I can't for the life of me see why you can't publish achieved/alleged improvements in power etc experienced by these numerous 'locals'... perhaps some letters of commendation. :?:
Whats the difference between 'local' testing and 'distant' testing? Unless they're all relatives.
Performance of a modified TD in Nebraska will be the same (with the same mod) to my TD in UK... If you need to collate more results then perhaps you need to run the tests on your own engine (just in case there is an unforseen problem)... I'm sure you're not like Bill Gates who is quite happy to sell a product that doesn't work; but it may do in the future with a 'patch'.... It would be like me selling one of my Quantae as 'working perfectly'... on three wheels :shock:
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Sorry I hadn't realized I hadnt stated my reults in testing in this thread. The cams offer signifgant increase in spool up time and a drop in egts. I havent g teched any so I can't do any good detailed comparisons but mark will be bringin his car by soon and we will get some gtech #'s that we can all talk about. The reason I want other people to try them out is because I don't want anyone thinking that the locals here are biased, no they are not relatives but we are all good friends. This is supposed to be a good thing guys! I just want to do some more testing and get the word out. I would love to hear other peoples opinions, all the cars I have cam'd and modded here I did the work on so I would love to have someone else I don't even know do it themselves and give an honest report on it.
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Sorry I hadn't realized I hadnt stated my reults in testing in this thread. The cams offer signifgant increase in spool up time and a drop in egts. I havent g teched any so I can't do any good detailed comparisons but mark will be bringin his car by soon and we will get some gtech #'s that we can all talk about. The reason I want other people to try them out is because I don't want anyone thinking that the locals here are biased, no they are not relatives but we are all good friends. This is supposed to be a good thing guys! I just want to do some more testing and get the word out. I would love to hear other peoples opinions, all the cars I have cam'd and modded here I did the work on so I would love to have someone else I don't even know do it themselves and give an honest report on it.
Ha ha
Now that sounds better :wink:
And there was me thinking you were about to 'experiment' on some guinea pigs :shock:
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I'd be up for astage 3 or bigger one for my td im building..im putting the pump on tonight..drop me a pm... Piers Harry's pump guy built my injection pump 12mm ..only problem is th dial indicator set up is screwy with it...its been a pain in my arse...ha
but I'm up for a cam
late me know
thanks
Deo
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Hey deo how much travel does your dial indicator have? Mine has a 5mm throw and when I do the pump timing I usually pre load it about 2 or 3 mm, A good dial indicator has an adjustable sleee on it so you can get some preload. It would seem strange to me if you had a 5mm throw dial indicator and couldn;t time the pump. I have talked to piers to try and get osme info on your pump but they don't seem to remeber building it. Do you know if they subbed the work out to NW fuel injection by any chance? They are owned by the same company. I was talkign to them trying to get some differnet pump heads to try in marks pump so we could get some more fuel and mentioned your pump but they didn't seem to know anythin about it. Is your head solid lifter or hydro. I forgot to specify these are hydro cams.
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Well I have been stumbling with this for a while,.. here's the deal.
When the engine is at tdc, and the pump is locked with the pin, lined up with the static notch and mark on the pump bracket.....I have the dial indicator preloaded about 3mm etc.. I turn the engine backwards and nothing shows on the dial indicator. I even put pressure on the dial indicator plunger, and it is bottomed out and not using the preload.... any how, if I keep turning the engine backwards, I can eventually get the dial indicator to climb NOT DROP...so I think that means the pump is built wrong ...it should be at max lift on the plunger with the engine at tdc..it seems to be at a flat spot between bumps on the plunger with the engine at tdc...hence when I turn the engine backwards, I get no moment until the indicator climbs up the plunger again ..but way back on the reverse engine rotation. The problem is how can it be assembled wrong?.. The plunger can't be installed out of time as it has a locating pin right?.. The key way is in the stock location and with the pully locked, the key way is facing toward the cyl head..weird
I am trying to figure it out... I used to have to jump a tooth on the pump gear to time it before, when I used it with my last 1.6TD. That worked "ok" but it never was right ...weird.. I had told Piers and they told me to spill port time it or use my piazzo setup.. That kinda was messed up too.. figure they would have me send it back and fix it for me .... no. I have not taken the pump apart to check it out as it was sealed by them. But, I think thats the only way to fix this problem correctly.
Any ideas..???????????
Thanks
Deo
\x/ Hillfolk!
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...it should be at max lift on the plunger with the engine at tdc.
Not at all, this might be where you are having trouble. The plunger will only be lifted about 1mm of a possible 3mm or so (with a 1.9TD camplate) at TDC. You should adjust the indicator so that it still has some preload at the lowest point in its travel then zero it. Maybe your dial guage is hung up on the adaptor and is not letting the rod extend far enough to touch the plunger?
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Yep the 1.6 camplate has 2.2mm lift and the 1.9 camplate has 3.2 and as bruce mentioned you'd only technically ever need a dial with 1.5 mm lift for setting VW pump timing.Just remember that you don't have the cold advance handle pulled out while setting timing or it would add another .4 mm onto your reading.
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Do you know how to hand time pumps deo? Thats was the only way we timed pumps at Mercedes Benz. I have hand timed a few vw pumps and you can usually get them within spec fairly easily if you have a good ear. Anyways back to cams guys! Hey andy2 how about a cam to get those 2 turbos movin a bit quicker?
P.s. all of us still want to see pictures of that setup.
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well I've hand timed this one previously just takes a little testing and tuning ..but I am kinda irked about it, I wanted to set it up "correctly " this time etc. I checked if the plunger of the dial indicator was hanging uop by pressing on it as i turned the pump ..it still was pressed against the pump plunger and had no movement...I had been able to get it timed last time by jumping a few teeth on the gear and the t belt...any how back to cams...whats the most extrem one you have now..will they work better thena g grind converted to diesel?...i haven't heard about andy2 and the twins..does some one have aset of teins on a 1.6 TD or tdi ..i would liek to see it i did some years ago and want to do a set now..kkk24 and hy35 holset with 9cm exhaust housing...
thanks
Deo
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My twin setup is as follows;Flipped manifold, k24/k14 hybrid with enlarged wastegate bypass.Then I used a HX30w form a 4bt cummins to sit ontop roughly where the stock turbo sits only now intake and exhaust are on opposite sides.I'm running 32psi boost with 2-3 psi IC+plumbing leak and 40 psi drive pressure.Spools pretty quick and works great.The hx30's wastegate will probably never open as it seems to be sized good
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cool sounds like how i want to do mine...but slightly different turbo... post some pics.. everybodies seem my old frankin turbos setup ha..next one will be clean and neat..sounds like its working good fro you..what engine is yours..if 1.6L u using the 1.9L mls headgasket?..using the small turbos wase gate and not the big one or what..my dodge has home made twins on it hy35 and a hx55... does your setup it fit under the hood?..did you get rid of the rain gutter?....and to get back to cams ..are you using one of the new cams?...
Thanks
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!
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Well the biggest cam is the stage 3 cam, wich has a lot more lift than the stock cam. I have never tried a g grind cam on a diesel so I don't know. Is your head a solid lifter or hydro?
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Yeah It all fits under the hood and has adequate firewall clearance,Not one dent at all 8) .The k24's wastegate is the only one being used.Its a 1.9aaz BTW.Also back to the cam's,I will definitely get one in the near future.I really need to get a camera :)
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Sorry helped wron person duhhhh
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Well I have been stumbling with this for a while,.. here's the deal.
When the engine is at tdc, and the pump is locked with the pin, lined up with the static notch and mark on the pump bracket.....I have the dial indicator preloaded about 3mm etc.. I turn the engine backwards and nothing shows on the dial indicator. I even put pressure on the dial indicator plunger, and it is bottomed out and not using the preload.... any how, if I keep turning the engine backwards, I can eventually get the dial indicator to climb NOT DROP...so I think that means the pump is built wrong ...it should be at max lift on the plunger with the engine at tdc..it seems to be at a flat spot between bumps on the plunger with the engine at tdc...hence when I turn the engine backwards, I get no moment until the indicator climbs up the plunger again ..but way back on the reverse engine rotation. The problem is how can it be assembled wrong?.. The plunger can't be installed out of time as it has a locating pin right?.. The key way is in the stock location and with the pully locked, the key way is facing toward the cyl head..weird
I am trying to figure it out... I used to have to jump a tooth on the pump gear to time it before, when I used it with my last 1.6TD. That worked "ok" but it never was right ...weird.. I had told Piers and they told me to spill port time it or use my piazzo setup.. That kinda was messed up too.. figure they would have me send it back and fix it for me .... no. I have not taken the pump apart to check it out as it was sealed by them. But, I think thats the only way to fix this problem correctly.
Any ideas..???????????
Thanks
Deo
\x/ Hillfolk!
Sorry to maintain this 'off thread' thread but you need help...Your problem looks like you have either an incorrect sprocket on the pump(unlikely) OR as I'm scratching it out on the table ... Your sprocket is on back to front. reverse sprocket and the woodruff will reallign itself towards the head of the pump... If you feel this has saved you $1000's then send me a set of heatshields ($5 each here in limey land) and $ nothing out your way :shock:
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I don't quite get what you mean.. the sprocket can only go on one way its tapered and keyed..so ..give me apm or i'll start a new thread on this problem..
thanks
deo
\x/ hillfolk!
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back to the cam Question ...i'm running a hydraulic mf engine right now...so if that helps you..also simon cooper had been used a g grind solid cam in a hydraulic diesel head previously and it needs about 2.5mm of valve relief to run....the solid gasser and hydraulic diesel cams have the same base circle....
thanks
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!
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Deo, just to be clear, is that 2.5mm reliefs cut into the tops of the pistons?
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These cams need no modfication, they are a bolt on. I had looked into using a gas cam before but the sprocket is much smaller on the gas cams and I didn't want to go through the trouble of modifying it differently. The first couple cams are ready to go.
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Hey Dave, just wanted to let you know I'd be all over helping with your cam research, but my racing class doesn't allow cam changes (luckily for my budget! :lol:)
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Hey who says you have to race with them :D But you probaby wouldnt want to go back to stock after trying these cams:twisted: I still need to send you those injectors I will try and do that this week. If anyone would like a custom cam just email us.
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jake..yup 2.5mm or so valve relief on the pistons.. you've seen simon's old posts on the tdi club forum right?..about his cams and mech tdoi a2 golf?..remeber his old 1.6LTD in a mk1 golf in the golf magazine about 5 yrs plus ago.. he used a g grind in that one too...any how his site http://www.centralvwaudi.com/ has pics and such regarding his tdi and cams etc..
thanks off to mess with the pickup..in the rain yuck...
later
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!
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These cams require no modifications. Hopefully will have some Gtechs up tonight.
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just to clear it up i didn't mean dave's cam needed clearancing ..i meant the g grind cam adapted to a diesel needs clearancing..... i hope to buy one of you cams soon..can you pm me some info..ie address tosend the core diesel cam etc
thanks
deo
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Dave,
Are you making custom cams for those 6 cylinders as well 8) Also, is the base circle changed, or is it maintained?
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I haven't seen 935racer do 6cyl cams yet but it definitely can be done. The cam shop he's dealing with specializes in diesels and does many Cummins, Powerstrokes, etc. cams.
If you send 935racer a cam I'm 90% sure he'll get it done for you (with no core charge of course, because you'd have already sent him a cam). Is it from a Volvo 2.4?
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Yes we can do 6 cyl versions as well but i have no cores so you will need to send me one they will cost slightly more due to haveing more lobes. Yes the base circle does change, not it does not have any adverse affects. There is plenty of preload on the lifters to ensure constant contact betweent he cam lobe and lifter.
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No problem, send me a PM about this. I have several spare cams, so I can easily send one. Thanks Dave 8)
Yes we can do 6 cyl versions as well but i have no cores so you will need to send me one they will cost slightly more due to haveing more lobes. Yes the base circle does change, not it does not have any adverse affects. There is plenty of preload on the lifters to ensure constant contact betweent he cam lobe and lifter.
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im sure its probably pointless, but have u considered making a non-turbo diesel cam.... ive got a modified pump from giles on the way and im curious to see if i can get to 100bhp with a 1.6. the pump alone should get me to around 75bhp. im sure it will require headwork in addition to a better breathing intake and exhaust setup, but id still like to try it
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im sure its probably pointless, but have u considered making a non-turbo diesel cam.... ive got a modified pump from giles on the way and im curious to see if i can get to 100bhp with a 1.6. the pump alone should get me to around 75bhp. im sure it will require headwork in addition to a better breathing intake and exhaust setup, but id still like to try it
You can count me in for an N/A cam as well!!
N.
P.S.
Merry Xmas all!
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Chalk me up for a N/A cam regrind as well :) for a future project..
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hmmmm, I would like to try one of my custom cams in a NA diesel. Just so you know, all cams will be HYD lifter only, there isn't enough demand to make it worth my while to do a solid lifter version.
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Dave I think that the NA would be a good candidate for the "BIG" cam like the race cummins profile.... :twisted:
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Brett I think you are right on there, the big race cam would probably work great in the NA diesel. Hey I sent you a PM buddy, check it!
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...all cams will be HYD lifter only...
I must have missed this, Dave. Does that mean there's nothing for those of us with solid lifter 1.6TDs?
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Well I should check the specs on the solid lifter TD ones before I say no, you likely could if you adjusted your shims accordingly. I'll get back to you guys about that.
Volvo cams, I am gonna get some prices on that. Definately doable, I would say around the $300-320 range you provide the core.
Chistmas specials on the regular TD cams guys. stage 2 is now $220USD with your old core. Your old core can be from a solid lifter or hydro and either NA or turbo. It just has to be in good condition, Don't send anything that is not something you wouldn't throw into your car and run.
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Please let us know on the solid lifter cams, thats all I have running and laying around for parts is solid lifter. I have yet to see a Hydralic head here in michigan, and I have looked at 7 different diesel vw's in the past year
later
Justin
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It is nearly impossible to make a performance cam from a stock blank for a solid lifter engine, there simply isn't enough adjustment range in the shims to obtain the proper clearance if the base circle diameter is reduced. The lift/duration of a reground performance cam are modified by reducing the base circle (think of it as increasing the height of a mountain by digging the valley deeper). The hydraulic lifters have sufficient travel to take up the extra clearance. With solid lifters you might luck out if the head had previously used shims toward the thin end of the range. If the head required thick shims to begin with you would probably run out of adjustment with the performance cam. To build a proper solid lifter cam you would probably need to start with a blank cam, making it a very expensive proposition.
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autozone sells new camshafts for hydralic head diesel for $146. If you could source them direct and then get them ground it might be worth it, lets say you have a hydralic cam laying around is it large enough to regrind and use it in a mechanical head? would it hold up?
later
Justin
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QuickTD, good to know about the solid lifter detail, I hardly ever see solid lifter diesels and almost never work on them.
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How about lash caps? I was going to send my solid cam to regrinder.
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How about lash caps? I was going to send my solid cam to regrinder.
Sure, that would work it's just a bit more trouble. If the base circle is measured before and after the regrind, the proper caps can be selected. The retainers are pretty close to the end of the stem in a VW diesel, "normal" lash caps might require modification to fit without contacting the retainers.
Anyone could use a passenger performance cam if they used lash caps. It's just not an easy "bolt on" like the hydraulic cam would be.