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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: Wayland on October 06, 2009, 09:27:27 am
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I was recently offered an 82 Merc 300 turbo diesel, 4spd auto, as a trade on the beater 90 Dodge CTD I'm selling. I've heard that these motors are good, but otherwise don't know anything about them. What kind of mileage could one expect from one of these cars? Also, what is the going rate for one of these cars in good running cond. these days? I suspect my truck is probably worth a bit more.
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The value depends a lot on your local market, but down here in Florida a decent one would be worth maybe $2-3000US.
Fuel economy would be around 23 MPG city, 28 highway. The engines can typically last about 300,000 miles if decently cared for. I have a speedometer off one I saw in a junkyard that had over 500,000.
I have an '83 300D with about 230K miles on it now (also an 80 300SD with same engine 129K , an 82 240D with 190K and a 77 240D with 155K- no issues)
Rick
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I use to own a 84 300TD (Wagon) Average milage was about 25mpg. Best I ever saw was 29-30 on a trip to FL from TN. A dog even with turbo, and big time lag. Very tough engine though. You can buy piston, and cylinder sleeve sets for overhauls. Sold my wagon for $4500 two years ago.
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With proper maintenance and tuning these cars are definitely not slow.
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With proper maintenance and tuning these cars are definitely not slow.
Tuned to Mercedes spec, (includes throttle, and trans linkage, modulator valve adjusted, and pump timing) compared to almost everything on the road the 123, and 126 5 cylinder cars are bricks. I am sure as with most engines they can be (modified) to run better, but modifications are not within the scope of most folks. My worn out 83 Volvo 240 wagon 24D N/A is much more nimble than the Benz. Gets 35mpg highway too.
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Something is rotten in Denmark if your Volvo wagon outruns a turbo OM617. By modern standards, they are sluglike, but in their day they were OK. Now, the 240D is another matter, but simplicity is its virtue, especially in stick format.
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Doesn't take mutch to make the 300td go well. Boost fooler or boost adj and timing with a tranny adjustment will make them go real well. Just sold a 300td coupe with a 5spd that went very well for a heavy car. I drove it from Ct to Fl on filtered used motor oil on a bet, and came back on the same fuel. Stopped at repair shops and they were happy to donate to the cause! Heres to gearheads helping gearheads!!!
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Doesn't take mutch to make the 300td go well. Boost fooler or boost adj and timing with a tranny adjustment will make them go real well. Just sold a 300td coupe with a 5spd that went very well for a heavy car. I drove it from Ct to Fl on filtered used motor oil on a bet, and came back on the same fuel. Stopped at repair shops and they were happy to donate to the cause! Heres to gearheads helping gearheads!!!
I run used motor oil mixed 50 50 with diesel. Are you running it 100%???
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Yup, 100% all the way down and back. Messy looking but lots of BTU's.
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Was that 5-speed swapped? I didn't think any of the 300C's had manuals. If they did, then I'm gonna go look for one right now. :D
Brendan
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Must have been. The (US) 300CD only came in automatic. The (US) 300D only in automatic. The 240D was imported in 4 speed stick and automatic. In Europe, you could get 4 and sometimes 5 speed 240D and 300Ds, but no turbodiesels over those years.
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Why would you so horribly abuse a good car and the environment running cr@p like used engine oil through it? Pouring it on the ground would have been cleaner. >:(
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I wouldn't run WMO in a Mercedes either. Unless it's on its last legs anyways, then it wouldn't really matter. I just know that I'm madly looking for a Mercedes 300D as a second car that I can drive in the winter. The Bus just doesn't cut it below freezing, and I love the old Mercs. ;D
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ok, so how good are merc engines? if i were to use one i would try and source a 5 cylinder. i would put it in a toyota 4x4. i just want something a little better suited to a 4000 pound rig. and a 1.6 is not that engine. what engine would you guys reccomend? and what did they come in? i want to be able to build alot of power. i dont want the head blowing off.
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OM602 used in the 87 190D and 91-93 300D.
OM603 used in the 1987 300D/TD and 86-87 300SDL. Avoid all 3.5L models.
They are known to be good for 250/300hp on stock internals.
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Hey, OM617. You seem to know quite a bit about these old cars. I found one relatively close to me for a pretty darn good price. This one: http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-Mercedes-Benz-300-Series-300d-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ156979275 Now, is there anything that I should really know about it before I buy it? Stuff like known problems that will arise? Stuff to check specifically? I would ask to do a compression check first. I know it has 300 000Km on it, but that doesn't really scare me much.
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Its a good car, 300000km is not much. The only major thing to watch out for is a cracked cylinder head.
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Right on. That's what I wanted to hear. ;D I'm guessing that checking for a cracked cylinder head would be about the same as a VW in looking for oil in the coolant, coolant in oil, excessive blow-by, and low compression. I just hope they let me do a compression check first. I got one that goes through the glow plug on older Mercedes. About what PSI should I be getting?
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300psi+ is good, 400psi+ is fantastic.
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Thanks. :)
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really? only from 86 and 87 cars? thats kinda a small window.
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Its a good car, 300000km is not much. The only major thing to watch out for is a cracked cylinder head.
I would also have the glow plugs checked on that engine. They have a bad habit of breaking off in the head. Mercedes dealerships are about the only ones that have the tools to extrack the broken off part. If you ever have to change the glow plugs be very careful.
Dennis
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Out of curiosity, how much do these engines/cars weigh? They seem like tanks -- maybe the drivetrain would yield better mileage swapped into a lighter vehicle?
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Well, I did go look at that car yesterday, and I think I'm gonna pass on it. There is more rust on the lower rocker panels than what is in the pics in the ad; and when I drove it, when it shifted from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd it was really rough. More like a hard shift with a thud and a jerk through the whole car. Any ideas as to what that would be?
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To the OP, a DODGE will never hold it's value like a Benz :)
82 was a good year.
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Well, I did go look at that car yesterday, and I think I'm gonna pass on it. There is more rust on the lower rocker panels than what is in the pics in the ad; and when I drove it, when it shifted from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd it was really rough. More like a hard shift with a thud and a jerk through the whole car. Any ideas as to what that would be?
Kind of sounds like a vacuum control problem.. That is if they still used vaccum for the shifting in '87..
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Well, I did go look at that car yesterday, and I think I'm gonna pass on it. There is more rust on the lower rocker panels than what is in the pics in the ad; and when I drove it, when it shifted from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd it was really rough. More like a hard shift with a thud and a jerk through the whole car. Any ideas as to what that would be?
Check modulator valve vac hose first to see if there is vacumm. If not, trace it back up to the engine. It is likley off somewhere.
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Ok, I'll check the vac line. Just so there isn't any confusion, where abouts do I have to look to find the line? Also, how is the turbo controlled? Is it vacuum controlled? When I drove it it seemed really slow for a inline 6. So maybe there is something else to be looking for. :-\
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Here's the vac diagram for an '87 300D.. Maybe this'll help you out...
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm124/maxfax3/mbxps1.jpg)
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Yeah, that does help. I'll call up the guy tomorrow and see if he is willing to try checking the hose himself. If we/he can get the transmission shifting smooth again, and I do a compression check that turns up good, I would reconsider buying the car and saving to repair the rust. The interior is near mint. :)
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I wouldn't be overly concerned with the smoothness of the shifts. In fact, if you pull the vacuum line off the modulator and get all good hard shifts that would confirm the the tranny is basically sound. The vac system can be adjusted- many of these cars were sent to an early demise due to minor vacuum issues.
If you are interested , feel free to check in over at peachparts.com diesel discussion and get smart(er).
Rick
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I wouldn't be overly concerned with the smoothness of the shifts. In fact, if you pull the vacuum line off the modulator and get all good hard shifts that would confirm the the tranny is basically sound. The vac system can be adjusted- many of these cars were sent to an early demise due to minor vacuum issues.
If you are interested , feel free to check in over at peachparts.com diesel discussion and get smart(er).
Rick
Thanks Rick, I'm gonna call up the guy tomorrow and see if he is willing to take it into a shop to get the vac lines checked. I'd do it myself, but I'm almost a 3 hour drive away. I just want to be sure it is mechanically sound before I buy it. If the body was perfect, I'd buy it. If it shifted good I'd buy it, but if it has a tranny problem that would cost me, I would pass on it because the body needs work too.
I'll definitely check out Peach parts. :)
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peachparts.com diesel discussion and get smart(er).
HA! Good luck with that there!
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Well, I gots another question. The guy with the last Merc that I linked never got back to me, so I gave up on it and found this one instead. http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-1988-Mercedes-Benz-300-Series-TD-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ167971092 (http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-1988-Mercedes-Benz-300-Series-TD-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ167971092)
I know that there's no pics, but I could always go look at it. So what's the general consensus on the '88 Mercs? Good? Bad?
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I don't think there were any 88 300 Series diesel for the US market anyway. I would guess it to be an 87 300SDL if it is a sedan. A TD would be a wagon. The 603 engines are prone to cracked heads if over-heated. Look in the expansion tank for evidence of stop leak products. Check the exhaust for steam after warm-up. Nice BIG comfortable car with good power though.
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Agree with Dennis. The ad says sedan but TD is wagon (stands for something like touring and transport in German). There were no 1988 US Mercedes diesel imports (or Canada, I think). The alloy heads can crack, as he says, so be careful. Quite a few sellers are clueless as to what they have, my guess is its a W123 sedan, most common model produced from 1982-85 in turbodiesel form.
Rick
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Cool beans. Thanks guys. I'll call up the guy tomorrow and see what he says. I wouldn't mind if it is a wagon, a big hatch back aint a bad thing. :P
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A similar condition '82 VW Rabbit would be worth considerably more.
I would say it is more because of fan base. Some people pay more for rusty rabbits today then they were worth at the factory. With common sense playing a factor, a rusty 1978 1.5 diesel with 400k miles on it should be $50.. or a case of beer. Scenequeers made these cars hot... (don't get me wrong, i love em.. but hell if id pay over 4 grand for one.)
http://www.americanstreetmachines.com/xCars/PageId/11/Classic-Mopar-1970-Roadrunner-Superbird-for-sale/Id/61/1970-Roadrunner-Superbird/ProdId/476/LId/0,61/1970-Roadrunner-Superbird.html#2272170-PLY166250%20199.jpg (http://www.americanstreetmachines.com/xCars/PageId/11/Classic-Mopar-1970-Roadrunner-Superbird-for-sale/Id/61/1970-Roadrunner-Superbird/ProdId/476/LId/0,61/1970-Roadrunner-Superbird.html#2272170-PLY166250%20199.jpg)
This car is in noway worth $275,000 ;) It's just a 70's Chrysler with some bolt on FACTORY performance parts. 1969 you could pick that car up for four and change, and extra $750 got you the Monster Hemi. How did the cars value spike by $270,000 !? Scenesters ;) not the actual value of the car.
and Yes Andrew, I just went there lol PREPARE TO SWORD FIGHT :P!!!
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FWIW, I didn't go for the Mercedes. I finally traded the truck for an 81 Jetta diesel and $1000.
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FWIW, I didn't go for the Mercedes. I finally traded the truck for an 81 Jetta diesel and $1000.
Win/Win :P Congrats