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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Doakster on October 04, 2009, 06:23:41 pm
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I can not believe i'm still getting low 30 mileage after all the things I've looked at over the last few months. Here is what i've done or looking at.
-Was getting 43mpg when i first got the car.
-Mileage dropped to 33ish
-Completely replaced all front end parts, bearing, brakes, (brakes are not dragging and bearings are good)
-Completely replaced all rear brake parts and bearings, they are not dragging either.
-Had small turbo boot leaks, which i fixed, no boot leaks anymore.
-Checked compression, all cylinders were within spec.
-Checked IP timing, all was within spec.
-Just installed rebuilt stock injectors by Giles, with new Bosch nozzles.
-Installed 2.25in exhaust from turbo back
-Pulled trans due to replacing clutch, tore down trans for rebuild and put in taller 3.94 Ring and Pinion in place of my 4.25 AVX trans, installed peloquin LSD.
-Checked my speedo against a GPS, only off by 2-3mph when above 45-50mph, mainly due to my larger tire size.
Got the car up and running today and did a mileage run for about 110 miles. My mileage was the worst i have ever gotten, 31.5 mpg
I'm going to check internal pump pressure tomorrow with a gauge and adjust to the recommended, i'll have to dig up that thread to get the RPMs vs Pressures, or if someone knows them please post them up.
The only other things i can think are the problem are the IP going out or the turbo going out, (don't have gauges yet to check boost pressures, that will be something in the future). I'm leaning toward the IP being the issue.
I have seriously had enough with this issue, i would love some other suggestions.
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do a 4 wheel whel aligiment , pay attention to how the rear wheels are setup .
check the air pressure in your tires , and find the max pressure rating on the tire , and fill the tires to that , and take note of your millage .
measure your injection timing dynamicly .
i noticed a decent improvment in millage just from going to 0w-40 oil from 15w40 .
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do a 4 wheel whel aligiment , pay attention to how the rear wheels are setup .
check the air pressure in your tires , and find the max pressure rating on the tire , and fill the tires to that , and take note of your millage .
measure your injection timing dynamicly .
i noticed a decent improvment in millage just from going to 0w-40 oil from 15w40 .
Alignment was done when i did all the front end work, the alignment still feels good, before and after the alignment i was getting 43mpg.
I'll check my tire pressure but i think they are near the max pressures.
I already run 15w40 oil.
Can you explain what you mean by checking the timing "dynamicly", how is this different than a normal timing check?
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On the oil, i re-read the previous post and saw you switched to 0W-40.
I think you'll probably agree that a 10plus mpg drop can't be solely the result of running 15w-40 oil. I have always run that oil and got 43 mpg with that oil before my mileage dropped big time.
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It takes some fairly expensive tools to check the dynamic timing advance, namely a diesel pulse adapter and timing light with advance and tachometer functions.
I think it's a really good idea to check the internal pressure which is one of the most significant factors that affect the dynamic advance.
Hopefully i'll be checking it tomorrow, is there anything else to check on the pump besides internal pressure and timing?
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Checked the internal IP pressure tonight.
At 500 pump rpm, I was only at about 25psi. Made an adjustment up to between 40-45psi at 500psi. I couldn't get it exact because i was using a cheap gauge that didn't have a pressure dampener and bounced a bit, but i think i am at about 43/44 psi now.
Checked 750 and 1000 rpms, the 750 looked good at around 60psi and at 1000rpm i was just over 70, so a little shy of the suggested 75psi at 1000 rpms.
I did a mileage run, only did about 40 or so miles, so it really isn't all that accurate as it's not a broad range, but i think i got about 35ish, but about 1/3 of those miles were before the adjustment, so hopefully I'll still see an increase. If it get's back up in the 40's i'll be pretty happy. I'll be able to do a 100plus mile run this weekend.
Any other thoughts?
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What car is it? What engine?
Sorry about that, i should have stated it earlier.
91 Jetta, 5spd, 1.6 ECO, stock pump (besides the recent adjustment), freshly rebuilt stock injectors with new bosch nozzles from Giles, 2.25in exhaust turbo back, stock turbo.
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Forgot to mention earlier, i've replaced the air and fuel filter, to rule that out.
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Your internal pressure was almost half of what it should be... I'd run a least a tank thru for accurate mileage measurements before adjusting anything else.
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Your internal pressure was almost half of what it should be... I'd run a least a tank thru for accurate mileage measurements before adjusting anything else.
Your right, i knew is wasn't going to be an accurate reading when i ran it this evening, I just wanted to post some general numbers up tonight for reference. I will run a tank through it hopefully this weekend.
Would that low of a pump pressure really have a 10mpg decrease? I can't speak from experience since this is the first time for me making the changes.
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I didn't read the whole way through your thread but have you eliminated air getting in the pump from the fuel lines sucking in air. I just recently put a new clear fuel line on my TD and was amazed at the amount of air going in the pump from a line to the filter that I re-routed when I had to relocate the fuel filter. My mileage was good though but it was getting harder to start. A good clear line does help diagnose things though ???
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I didn't read the whole way through your thread but have you eliminated air getting in the pump from the fuel lines sucking in air. I just recently put a new clear fuel line on my TD and was amazed at the amount of air going in the pump from a line to the filter that I re-routed when I had to relocate the fuel filter. My mileage was good though but it was getting harder to start. A good clear line does help diagnose things though ???
I do have clear lines on the supply and return lines to the pump and don't have any visible air, so i think i am good to go there.
Maybe there is hope for me after all. If i get that 10mpg back i would be tickled pink. We shall see.
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How did you increase your pump pressure?
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How did you increase your pump pressure?
Here's the thread ye seek:
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5936
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How did you increase your pump pressure?
The picture below is from the thread for a tool that can be made to go in place of the"out" bolt of the pump. Some NA pumps or ECO pumps will have this extra spacer on them. I called Giles (Performance Diesel Injection) and he sent me a spare for $5.00. I drilled and tapped it for a grease line (can be found at any harware/auto place), and installed a 0-200psi gauge on the grease line. This was put in place of the "out" bolt on the pump for the test. I bought a laser tachometer off ebay for $25 bucks so i could check RPMs at the pump pulley (my ECO doesn't have a tachometer). The entire set up probably cost me 40 bucks. Then you run up the rpms to check the following.
-IP Pressure @ 500 RPM should be 3 Bar (43.5 psi)
-IP Pressure @ 750 RPM should be 4.1 Bar (59.4 psi)
-IP Pressure @ 1000 RPM should be 5.2 Bar (75.4 psi)
-IP Pressure @ 2000 RPM should be 10.4 Bar (150 psi)
You can also check with engine rpm if you have a tach in the car and won't have to get a laser tach, engine rpm is twice the pump speed. The ones i listed above are for pump rpms.
If the pressure is low you then all you have to do is adjust it at the plunger assembly which is described in pages 1 & 2 of the thread posted. But the thread goes into more detail, it's a good read but takes awhile.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/libbybapa/Imag0232.jpg)
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I just recently put a new clear fuel line on my TD ... A good clear line does help diagnose things though ???
Not to go much OT here, but what did you use for your clear line?
Tx!
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I just recently put a new clear fuel line on my TD ... A good clear line does help diagnose things though ???
Not to go much OT here, but what did you use for your clear line?
Tx!
My ECO came with clear lines from the factory, but as they age you usually can't see much through them. I replaced my return line with just some clear plastic tubing, but i'll due something more permanent in the future, maybe get the original clear line that has all the proper bends if VW still sells it.
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...the original clear line that has all the proper bends if VW still sells it.
they do ........ for almost $300.
its ridiculous
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I just recently put a new clear fuel line on my TD ... A good clear line does help diagnose things though ???
Not to go much OT here, but what did you use for your clear line?
Tx!
I checked with some other people and they had been using a clear tubing that is chemical rated from tactor supply for like $.30 a foot. They have it in all sizes. Seems to me it was 1/4 in. from the filter to the pump but make sure you put at least 2 clamps on each connection, the good banded ones not the worm screw ones. Take one of your fuel fittings in with you to get the right size. You might be amazed to see how much air some of these old connections and lines can let in the system. I've had this line on now for over a month and it seems to be holding up fine with diesel fuel. I don't think any of those old lines were pre-bent, just the fact that over the years they get stiff from age or whatever along with the clouding. You will cure a lot of hard starting problems very cheaply by seeing the real problem of air getting in the pump instead of going off in another direction from diagnosing it wrong. Just remember the air can be coming in anywhere clear back to the tank outlet which I believe was 3/8 in. From what I saw changing mine I recomend changing every flexible line clear back to the tank. Luckily I had already installed a lift pump which made the bad spots get a little wet but under normal suction they don't show up but let air in. One of the common problems seems to be especialy when in a Rabbit for example, when you move the fuel filter over to the drivers side on the firewall or whever you put it to make room for the turbo version air cleaner that the old line seems to start allowing air in after moving it the other direction. Those old lines have been sitting there for 30 years now and don't like changing their shape very much ;D
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What if I canīt reach the higher pressures?
I have built a M-Tdi IP following the faq and Heyīs instructions. My IP has the right pressures up to 1200 IP rpm. But maxes out at 7 bar at wot. And it doesnīt rev past 4000 rpmīs although I have done the governor mod. Iīve also made sure the governor regulator shuts the tiny hole at wot but still no higher pressure or higher revs.
I used a 1.6 TD IP as base with TDI camplate, rollers, advance mechanism with covers, spring etc, and a 12 mm head. Modified levers as hey described in the FAQ. It pulls really hard up to about 3800 rpmīs, WG set at 28 psi and static timing to 1.0mm. I also use a water/meth injection system that kicks in at 15 psi.
What could be wrong? Iīm almost out of ideas. I have also shimmed and tested different springs for the advance mechanism. But still no luck.
If I tap the regulator the pressures increase at higher revs but itīs really loud from idle (I set the pressure to 4 bars at idle just to check) up to 1/2 throttle. But It still doesnīt rev more than 4000 rpm.
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And do I need shims at each end of the advance spring to keep it from eating itself into the material in the piston and cover? Maybe the thinnest ones just keep it safe? I made a testrun without any shims in there but not much difference.
Sorry if I hijacked the thread BTW ;D
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Thanks Andrew :)
I still use a 1.6 regulator. I tried installing 2 thicker shims today. And I can now make it rev past 4000 rpms again.
I tapped the regulator so it now has 3.5 bar at 500 IP rpms, and some rattle. It takes alot of tinkering to get an IP
like this to work really great.
Iīve understood that my internal pressure might not be that linear as the graph someone drew in the thread over at
vwdieselparts but I have to start somewhere, right? ;D
But Iīm pretty satisfied with itīs performance anyway. But the older IDI was a hell of alot easier to tune.
What would diesel tuning be without this place? Keep the ideas coming, because I sure need them.
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I'm curious to see how your mileage improves by increasing the pressure. I've got a diesel pulse adapter. Waiting to get a good deal on a Snap-on timing light with tach function to check my pressure.
My pump is low mileage, but has never been rebuilt/recalibrated in 15 years. My mileage is like 35-39 if I'm lucky. I need to take care of the air leaks first (at the tank), but I know my compression is good, and I rebuilt the injectors about 5k ago with no improvement. So, pump is the only thing left. Also, my power is kinda soft too.
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Hmm, can we discuss something else? ::)
My mileage is 0.8 liter / 10 km with the current IP setting. You do the math to get it to miles/gallon :P
Might be a bit lower when the pressure is raised.
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Hmm, can we discuss something else? ::)
My mileage is 0.8 liter / 10 km with the current IP setting. You do the math to get it to miles/gallon :P
Might be a bit lower when the pressure is raised.
That's 35mpg uk imp. :o My first QuantumTD did that when I first got it. Ended up capable of 62mpg imp. Turned out cam was out by a tooth or so on the flywheel, and pump too retarded. It's written down in my gasser Haynes somewhere. ;D
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Bad News Guys. Did a mileage run, about half a tank on the new IP internal pressure and I only got 33mpg, so really not a bit of change. Other than the fact my car smokes a lot more than it use to.
I really am about fed up with this and all the troubleshooting i've done with no luck. My thought is it has to be something wrong with the IP or the turbo, i've checked just about everything else.
Why would i have no change in mpg when bringing my internal pressure up?
Here's another thought as to why it might be my IP, based on what happened previously when i got my injectors rebuilt (3 times so far).
-Sent injectors to a local shop for rebuild, they got rebuilt with a NON bosch nozzles (don't recall which make exactly). Mileage increased from 31 to 35 on the new injectors, but they leaked from the bodies.
-Sent injectors back for another rebuild, reinstalled and they still leaked.
-Decided to send them to Giles, he rebuilt them and ran them in his car for testing, he stated the nozzles put out way more fuel that stock bosch nozzles, he had a lot of smoke in his car.
-He decided to build me a set with different cores and stock bosch nozzles.
-Reinstalled those recently and mileage went back down to 31mpg (the same mileage before i decided to get the injectors rebuilt, by the way i still have 3 of 4 leaking >:()
What this tells me is that with more fuel the car got better mileage, but the injectors are not the problem because my mileage was the same with old or newly rebuilt bosch injectors.
I'm really thinking my IP isn't supplying enough fuel. But with my increase in the internal pressure setting the car is smoking fairly bad when on the peddle.
So what the heck is going on, i'm about to sell the car and get a TDI.
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Are you calculating mileage based on the odometer? Have verified it using GPS?
yes, calculating mileage based on the odometer, I have verified the odometer using a GPS, it's only off maybe 2 or 3 mph above 50-55mph, mainly due to my 205-45-16 wheel size.
About a year ago(didn't have my mileage issue then) i switched to the bigger wheels, and calculated my mileage (using odometer) got 43, which is exactly what i got before the wheel swap, to make a long story short the wheel size and the 2-3mph difference in the odometer didn't make a bit of difference on mileage calculation, when my car was getting good mileage.
My mileage just suddenly took a nose dive during last winter months, and no changes to the vehicle as far as parts replaced and how i check mileage were done.
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Are you calculating mileage based on the odometer? Have verified it using GPS?
yes, calculating mileage based on the odometer, I have verified the odometer using a GPS, it's only off maybe 2 or 3 mph above 50-55mph, mainly due to my 205-45-16 wheel size.
About a year ago(didn't have my mileage issue then) i switched to the bigger wheels, and calculated my mileage (using odometer) got 43, which is exactly what i got before the wheel swap, to make a long story short the wheel size and the 2-3mph difference in the odometer didn't make a bit of difference on mileage calculation, when my car was getting good mileage.
My mileage just suddenly took a nose dive during last winter months, and no changes to the vehicle as far as parts replaced and how i check mileage were done.
I know you said you checked it with a GPS but did you actualy verify that the odometer is actualy registering the miles it should be. I know on almost every one of these old Rabbits that a little gear in the speedometer cracks eventualy and it will skip a tenth of a mile when it gets to a certain point I had 3 clusters from different cars and everyone of them did it. The fix is to take the speedometer apart and slide the ear off, drill the hole in the gear to the dia of the shaft and slip it back in place and superglue it. Evidently the plastic gear deteriates from age and changing temps and finaly splits on the one side from the tension on it allowing it to slip. I forget where I read about this fix but I tried it 4 years ago and it's still holding, I didn't think it would last 25 miles at the time. You said it started last winter and it might just finnaly decided to split from one too many temp cyles. Like I said before i took 3 different clusters out my friend had and everyone had the same exact problem. They register miles but not accurately, you can see a tenth coming up and then it will jump back a little and finaly catch eventualy but your miles will be off. I'd deffinately check your ODOMETER.
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Well it's worth a try to check it. Can you tell by watching the odometer tenths closely and see if one of the tenths skips?
I'll be able to do another GPS run tomorrow, and i'll track my miles driven with the GPS verses the odometer and the trip meter.
Unfortunately i think it's not my problem, because i usually do a long drive on the start of the weekend and then back on sunday. The distance according to google maps is 120 miles, and I might register 115-120 on my trip meter.
We'll have to see what i come up with for numbers.
Do the trip meter and the odometer run off the same gear?
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Well it's worth a try to check it. Can you tell by watching the odometer tenths closely and see if one of the tenths skips?
I'll be able to do another GPS run tomorrow, and i'll track my miles driven with the GPS verses the odometer and the trip meter.
Unfortunately i think it's not my problem, because i usually do a long drive on the start of the weekend and then back on sunday. The distance according to google maps is 120 miles, and I might register 115-120 on my trip meter.
We'll have to see what i come up with for numbers.
Do the trip meter and the odometer run off the same gear?
I'm pretty sure the trip meter is driven by the odometer itself which is where the little problem gear is. I'm gonna try to find the site where I found this fix at.
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Thanks, i'd greatly appreciate it, i've never had to take a VDO cluster apart before and it sounds a little hairy from the description. Any thing you can find on the repair would be appreciated.
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I just found it. I don't know how to do the posting links thing but if you search {VW cheap tricks} it is listed in the repairs section under broken odometer. It shows exactly how to do it with all the pictures. This guy has a very interesting site and it's amazing how many of his problems he lists are ones I've had. Check out the Missing Link shifter kits he has too. From what I remember it wasn't as complicated as it sounds and he shows how to do it step by step.
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I just found these two links on the subject, the second one is the write-up. Sounds like quite a process to do the repair.
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/CheapTricks/Odometer.shtml
http://mysite.verizon.net/janvdb/vw/Body/speedo_fix.txt
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Also found this one, the guy used snap rings to hold the split gear together, probably will never fail. And it seems like there is much less tear down of the cluster to get to the gear in his explanation. What exactly did you do to the cluster to get to this gear?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4181342
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Also found this one, the guy used snap rings to hold the split gear together, probably will never fail. And it seems like there is much less tear down of the cluster to get to the gear in his explanation. What exactly did you do to the cluster to get to this gear?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4181342
It's been about 4 years since I did it but once the cluster is out the speedometer then comes out and it's pretty straight forward from there. He does have the instructions there at his site. I can't remember if the speedometer needle has to come off or not but if it does carefully mark it's location to the shaft somehow. Like I said this is all for a Rabbit but it's a VDO unit regardless. There are places on the net where you can even get replacement gears for these speedometers if need be but his drill and supeglue method works fine. Just follow his guidlines and it's not hard at all. From the other things you've done with your pump, injectors ect. this is just childs play ;D
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Did another mileage check tonight and here are the results.
Topped of the tank and checked the following:
Odometer: 112696
Trip Meter: 0
GPS Trip: 0
Ran the car for over 2 hours on my normal trip home, here are the results:
Odometer: 112812
Trip Meter: 116.? (don't remember the tenths)
GPS Trip: 123.64
Topped off tank, total of 3.941 gallons used
Mileages:
Odometer: 116miles / 3.941 = 29.4mpg
Trip Meter: 116miles / 3.941 = 29.4mpg
GPS Trip: 123.64miles / 3.941 = 31.3mpg
So I've proved the following:
1. My odometer and trip meter are right in check with one another.
2. My odometer & trip are only slightly off from the GPS check, not nearly enough to cause such poor mileage. The odometer runs smooth, no clicking what so ever, so the odometer is not the issue.
3. The difference has to be due to my larger tires. As i said my speedo runs about 2-3mph slower, so running the car for just over 2 hours at 60-65mph more or less accounts for the 7mile difference between the GPS and the odometer/tripmeter.
Today was a new low for me and the car. It went into the 20s with the mileage, can't believe it, just keeps getting worse.
How could i have NO mileage increase while increasing the IP internal pressure?
I still think it is the IP or the turbo, maybe my wastegate is stuck open? I have to get my gauges in and see what i'm putting out for boost.
Who want to by a car?
I'm probably going to post this up on vwdieselparts forum just to get a few more thoughts on this mind numbing issue.
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What's the condition of the car? My folks are in Gorham, Maine and I'm due for a visit. My dad just had a heart attack and angioplasty... :o I don't do rust, tho....
Actually the car is in great shape, only has a little rust on the around the gas cap and small spot on the door, has low mileage at 112k. Heck i think i've put easily $4,000k in parts into it in the last year with the new peloquin, clutch, complete new front with 11 in brakes in the front, new brakes and bearings in the rear, 2.25in exhaust, wheels, etc, etc. I have an VW original Votex console that needs to go in along with my gauges and a new radio. Bet there are not too many 1.6s with a peloquin and a Votex console floating around.
I'm so frustrated with the thing i just want to sell it, but then again i get pissed at myself because i can't figure it out. When i get that way i usually don't stop until i figure the problem out, it becomes a mission for me.
So we'll see. It's been a good car for me except chasing the mileage issue. It helps me keep the mileage off my F-350 diesel, but then again i bought the car for great mileage and I love MK2 cars, and it's not delivering.
We'll see, i probably won't end up selling it. Want to stop by and take a look at it while you're in Maine?
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Here's a couple of pics of the car:
Trailering it down, so i can go pull the trans:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_0793.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_0794.jpg)
The day i brought it home:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_0859.jpg)
A little front end work:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_1784.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_1770.jpg)
If I keep the car it's going to get the following treatment:
- H&R sport springs
- Single Round headlight conversion, with black turn signals
- New Radio/speakers
- The Votex console with gauges
- Giles Pump or new turbo (if it needs it)
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Couple of thoughts:
1) Are you running a thermostat? Or, did you drill some holes in it? ECOdiesels are notorious for running hotish. Not sure why. If you are running no t-stat or have drilled holes in it, or it's stuck open, you might be affecting the mileage due to lack of thermal efficiency. Others can chime in, cause I really don't know much about it. But, the bottom line is you want your diesel to run in the 190F range (87 C).If you aren't in that range, it can affect mileage.
2) Have you checked that your fuel return line is clear to the tank? One of the trouble-shooting tips is to blow the fuel back to tank and make sure it's clear. If not, that can affect mileage.
3) Compression test? Some think that off compressions can affect mileage. I'm sure it can to some degree, but I'm not sure it can account for 15 MPG worth of discrepancy. But, it could be a good idea to check and rule it out. But, given the mileage you were getting before this happened (see below), I'm not sure this is the problem. I just can't see a sudden drop in compression causing this (even if you blew the HG, which I'm sure you'd know, unless of course there's no T-stat in there.
The 40-43 you were getting with the stock AVX trans and stock injectors, is about right for an ECOdiesel. By dropping the RPMs with the 3.94 final drive, you should have improved it. That means the following:
1) Assuming your T-stat is working properly, and has no auxilary holes in it, AND, your fuel return line is not clogged, AND your compression is decent, then the only logical conclusion is that your pump needs a rebuild. Increasing the internal pressure will address only ONE part of the equation. It will not compensate or fix other internal pump problems like worn/broken components, worn springs, sticking components, tired delivery valves, misadjustment, etc.
I'd say, have it rebuilt. Or, better yet, have a true TD pump rebuilt. The stock ECO pump has a smaller pump shaft, and lacks the LDA. Really no point in bothering with it if you want performance and power.
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Couple of thoughts:
1) Are you running a thermostat? Or, did you drill some holes in it? ECOdiesels are notorious for running hotish. Not sure why. If you are running no t-stat or have drilled holes in it, or it's stuck open, you might be affecting the mileage due to lack of thermal efficiency. Others can chime in, cause I really don't know much about it. But, the bottom line is you want your diesel to run in the 190F range (87 C).If you aren't in that range, it can affect mileage.
I have not done anything with the coolant system since i bought the car. I will say that on normal driving the temp sensor in the cluster runs fine ( in know they are not absolutely accurate), it barely goes over the half mark. On a hot summer day it will creep up the 3/4 mark if i'm at idle a while. But i've checked the temps with a laser temp gun and they are never above 190-200, so i think the gauge is a little off. As far as i know the car has a T-stat, i can't say otherwise because i haven't dove into the coolant system
2) Have you checked that your fuel return line is clear to the tank? One of the trouble-shooting tips is to blow the fuel back to tank and make sure it's clear. If not, that can affect mileage.
yes i have done this, i was getting leaking on the "cap" of the injectors, blew out the return line with air, it was clogged, after doing this there was no increase in mileage, but i might check again
3) Compression test? Some think that off compressions can affect mileage. I'm sure it can to some degree, but I'm not sure it can account for 15 MPG worth of discrepancy. But, it could be a good idea to check and rule it out. But, given the mileage you were getting before this happened (see below), I'm not sure this is the problem. I just can't see a sudden drop in compression causing this (even if you blew the HG, which I'm sure you'd know, unless of course there's no T-stat in there.
yes did this, all cylinders were in spec, don't remember the spec, would have to look at my note, but they were all good number and very close to one another
The 40-43 you were getting with the stock AVX trans and stock injectors, is about right for an ECOdiesel. By dropping the RPMs with the 3.94 final drive, you should have improved it. That means the following:
1) Assuming your T-stat is working properly, and has no auxilary holes in it, AND, your fuel return line is not clogged, AND your compression is decent, then the only logical conclusion is that your pump needs a rebuild. Increasing the internal pressure will address only ONE part of the equation. It will not compensate or fix other internal pump problems like worn/broken components, worn springs, sticking components, tired delivery valves, misadjustment, etc.
I'd say, have it rebuilt. Or, better yet, have a true TD pump rebuilt. The stock ECO pump has a smaller pump shaft, and lacks the LDA. Really no point in bothering with it if you want performance and power.
One would think the 3.94 should increase mileage, that's why i wanted it in there, but of course it didn't help in my case. If the pump goes to giles, i'm going to get one of his TD LDA built up pumps for sure, not messing with an ECO pump
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I also haven't seen on the list that the cam timing was checked and is bang on.
You know i thought about doing this, maybe the cam jumped a tooth? Wouldn't you notice it running rough? But when i rechecked the IP timing only about 2 months ago, my cam lock down tool slide right in like it should on the end of the cam when my timing marks came up on the flywheel, so i assumed it was good. Thoughts on that?
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I also haven't seen on the list that the cam timing was checked and is bang on.
You know i thought about doing this, maybe the cam jumped a tooth? Wouldn't you notice it running rough? But when i rechecked the IP timing only about 2 months ago, my cam lock down tool slide right in like it should on the end of the cam when my timing marks came up on the flywheel, so i assumed it was good. Thoughts on that?
"Checked" in this context means: what setting did you dial the pump into, using a dial indicator?
Can't tell from your description, but you don't explicitly mention what timing setting you're using... in many cases when we see that it means the owner has eyeballed the timing marks like you do with a gasser but has forgotten/doesn't know that a dial indicator is needed to finish the job... at least from VW's perspective.
Dialing in the timing also allows you to try various settings scientifically until you find the right balance between power and economy.
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"Checked" in this context means: what setting did you dial the pump into, using a dial indicator?
Can't tell from your description, but you don't explicitly mention what timing setting you're using... in many cases when we see that it means the owner has eyeballed the timing marks like you do with a gasser but has forgotten/doesn't know that a dial indicator is needed to finish the job... at least from VW's perspective.
Dialing in the timing also allows you to try various settings scientifically until you find the right balance between power and economy.
I always checked my pump timing with a dial indicator, cam lock tool, and pump lock tool (per the bentley manual), the hole nine yards.I checked the pump timing after i changed my timing belt and it was right in the middle of the Bentley spec range, (don't remember the numbers of the top of my head). After the timing belt replacement about a year ago, i still got 43 mpg. Then it dropped way off on me and i rechecked it a few months ago and it was still right in the middle of the spec. Seems like it would have to be way off, (something that would jump out at me when i check it) to affect my mileage this much.
I may try to advance/retard the timing by playing with it, but i don't think it's going to help 12-15mpg worth.
I had a long talk with Giles today and explained my situation. Basically what i need to do is get my gauges in or put in a temporary boost gauge, see where i'm at and go from there. His thoughts are that if all the things i checked are good, than it's either the turbo or the pump. That has always been my hunch as well.
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I found my notes(maintenance log) for when i last checked my timing. I wrote down that i was within spec, .037-.041"
.039" seem to ring a bell for some reason.
looks like i didn't write down what i actually set it to, but it was within the range.
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Sounds like your pump is toasty.
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Sounds like your pump is toasty.
You know i think you're the first person besides myself to actually say/think my pump is bad. Thanks for at least saying it. I know it sounds crazy but it almost sets my mind at ease after battling this issue for about a year to hear someone else say it.
I'm going to get my gauges in, check my boost and go from there. I don't want to put in a built up LDA pump in with out a set of gauges in first. So time to bite the bullet again and do some more work on it.
Unless someone has a miracle fix.
Oh yeah, i looked up my compression test too, all cylinders were 440-450psi, new motor being 497 and worn spec being 417psi, so she is tip top for the compression at 112k miles, and no week cylinders.
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Well if you DO end up getting somehow insanely better mileage with a pump change let me know, I'm basically in the same boat as you are only I bought my car with a "rebuilt" pump on it. It certainly LOOKED clean, it had the orange paint on all the adjustments, etc but I get pretty much the same mileage as you do. If I REALLY play good in the city I can get about 32 MPG tops but yeah, I spend a lot of my time down in your range. 3 different sets of injectors (OG, Prothe, new Bosch nozzles in OG), timing set just about anywhere, etc...
I do have another TD pump sitting around I've never even tried out... Might be worth a weekend's fun to try and see what I get...
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I only say that because I'm certain I have the same issue as you. I don't have a turbo, so I can easily narrow down my problem.
I am sucking some air, but not enough to get the horrible milage figures I'm running (about 36-39 MPG). I've got a Caddy: tires are good, wheels spin freely, great compression, rebuilt injectors (Bosch nozzles, pressure tested), timing properly set on cam/crank, adjusted the injection pump to a variety of different settings within the specified range (and outside the range),etc.
The only "wild" cards in my equation are
1) sucking a bit of air
2) alignment (drives' straight, but have never done an alignment)
3) injection pump
I don't think #1 or 2 are enough to give me such crappy numbers. I'll address them first, but I'm 99% certain it's my pump. It makes all sorts of noises at various RPMs and the RPMs hang at idle on some days (usually rainy or cold days). The pump was resealed but not rebuilt. It's never been recalibrated since 1987. I'm gonna try to ramp up the internal pressure (once I get a good tach timing light), but I'm not sure that will solve my problem.
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Alright, can some one give me a step by step of checking the CAM timing?
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1) Remove Valve cover
2) Rotate motor to TDC (using flywheel marks).
3) Check to see that both cam lobes for #1 cylinder are facing up/away from the lifters
4) Insert your camshaft locking tool into the horizontal slot on the back (driver's side) end of the camshaft. If you cannot insert the locking bar, rotate the motor slightly so that you can.
At this point, ALL of your timing marks should line up. This means the following:
1) Camshaft is locked in place
2) Crankshaft is at TDC. Double check to make sure you have the correct timing mark. The real mark should be a "O", rather than a V-groove, unless someone installed a gasser flywheel on your car. In that case, the V-groove may be the correct mark. Some people have reported problems timing diesel engines due to swapped flywheels, incorrectly installed flywheels, etc.
3) IP pulley locked in place, with the timing mark on the inside of the pulley facing UP
If that all checks out, then you're good to go.
If not, then you'll want to loosen the tensioner, remove the bolt on the cam sprocket, and tap off the cam gear. There is a small hole on the backside of the metal timing cover where you can place a drift through, and knock the cam gear off. Once it's off, reinstall it with the bolt installed enough so that the cam gear still spins just lightly.
Once that's done, reinstall the belt, making sure there is no slack between the IP and the crank. Slip the belt over the cam gear and tensioner. Conversely (and easier in my mind), you can set the belt between the IP and the crank, then slip the cam gear into the top loop of the belt, and install it onto the camshaft, then install the bolt and lightly tighten it so that it still spins.
Once the belt is in place with the cam and tensioner roller still a little loose, remove the locking pin from the injection pump gear. Tension the belt so that you have about 45 degrees of flex on the belt, and tighten the tensioner. Then, using a counter-hold, torque the cam bolt to 45 nM plus about 1/5th turn. Do the same for the tensioner.
Removing the locking pin from the injection pump is critical, because with the cam loose and the IP free to spin, it equalizes the tension around the whole belt. Otherwise, the tension gets unevenly distributed, and it can affect pump timing.
Once that's done, you can double check your pump timing. If it's off, reset it to the low end of the specified range for better economy. Set it to the higher end for more power/better cold starts.
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Something just hit me, don't remember checking to the "0" mark, time to go recheck the pump timing and see where i'm at
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Alright, can some one give me a step by step of checking the CAM timing?
Some pictures that may help:
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28
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Alright, can some one give me a step by step of checking the CAM timing?
Some pictures that may help:
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28
Correct me if i'm wrong, but you don't mention anything about the "O" mark in the timing check, can you elaborate?
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Yup, I don't. ;)
If you have a standard diesel flywheel IMHO you are after a v timing mark, as per my pictures and also this photo from the service manual:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/TDCmark.jpg)
If someone has thrown a gasser flywheel in your engine the small oval is TDC, as per this picture:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/flywheelmark_TDC.jpg)
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Hmmmmmmmm....
I need to check my timing mark I think. I swear mine looks more like the pic of the gasser one than the pic of the diesel one.
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I'm almost certain i have a diesel flywheel, as far as i know i'm the only one to pull the clutch, so the fly wheel is original.
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Did another round of timing checks today and here's the results. I used Vincent's write up and the bentley as a back up reference.
Checked my Cam timing initially, and found that is was off just a hair. I needed about 1/32" more rotation on the cam for my cam lock to slide in. So i adjusted it so that it slide in perfectly with the engine at TDC. I verified it a few times by re-rotating to TDC and checking. The cam lock tool slide in perfectly, but still tight every time. Also confirmed i do have a diesel flywheel.
Then I started with the timing. I checked it 4 times back to back to see where i was at before any adjustments were made. As you guys probably know the spec straight from the Bentley for an ECO is "Checking .93-1.07mm" or .036"-.042" and "Adjusting 1.00 +/- .02mm" or .039"-.040". And here is what i came up with.
My dial is in inches so i always have to convert. First Check:
.036" (.914mm)
.036" (.914mm)
.037" (.939mm)
.036" (.939mm)
So my timing was a little retarded and i figured that it couldn't hurt to advance it a little bit. Made an adjustment and here is what i came up with, checked 4 times for verification.
.040" (1.01mm)
.0395" (1.00mm)
.0405" (1.02mm)
.040" (1.01mm)
Now i went a step further to make sure my cold start wasn't causing a problem. And did the following
-Checked the cold start was in, pushed it all the way in on the pump and rechecked timing, got .040" (1.01mm)
-Pulled out the cold start slightly and pushed all the way back in, the timing returned to .041" (1.04mm)
-Rechecked two more times and got .040" (1.01mm) both times with the cold start pushed back in.
-Then double checked my cam lock and it slide home just perfectly at TDC.
So now I know the following.
-My cam is now timed perfectly, it was just a hair off.
-My timing was slightly retarded but still close to the specs
-Advanced the timing slightly so it pretty close to right on the money.
I'm going to do another mileage run tonight and I'll report back. Hopefully this will help some, but I'm skeptical that is will bump it up 12-15mpg, we'll have to see.
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Just took it for a little test drive. Seemed to run a little bit smoother and there was a little less smoke compared to after i made my internal pump pressure adjustment. Still some noticeable smoke when it's working hard and on the peddle hard.
Should get a mileage run done tonight and I'll report back.
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Big surprise, didn't help much.
Just finished the mileage run and got a whopping 31.2 mpg. That's a 2 mpg increase before the adjustments to the timing, was getting 29mpg. Before the timing adjustments it just seems my mpg kept creeping lower and lower over time, which still leads me to believe it's the pump.
I think i've had about enough. It's got to be the pump going out. Going to get some gauges in and call Giles about a LDA pump.
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Yeah. Pump time. Sucks to have to dump that kind of money on a single repair, but look on the bright side. At least you don't have a CIS fuel system:
Fuel Pump $250
In-tank pump: $75
Fuel reservoir: $150
Injectors: $300
Fuel distributor: $600
WUR: $200
Frequncy valve: $300
It could be a lot worse. At least you've isolated the problem. I personally don't think you'll find anything with the turbo. As long as it spins free, I can't see how it can cause 15 MPG worth of discrepancy.
Let us know how it goes.
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It could be a lot worse. At least you've isolated the problem. I personally don't think you'll find anything with the turbo. As long as it spins free, I can't see how it can cause 15 MPG worth of discrepancy.
Let us know how it goes.
Yeah I can only hope a new pump solves it. I'm kinda looking forward to a new pump, she's gonna have a little more get up and go after Giles is done with it.
I don't think it's the turbo either, i've checked it multiple times, everytime it spins very freely and has zero play in the shaft.
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By zero play i mean that it's not extremely noticeable, maybe a couple of thousands play, just not noticeable enough for me to see when i grab on to the shaft/compressor and move left-right-up-down
The shaft does spin very freely and smoothly.
Sound about right?
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Ordered LDA pump from Giles today, set of gauges on the way.....we shall see.
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By zero play i mean that it's not extremely noticeable, maybe a couple of thousands play, just not noticeable enough for me to see when i grab on to the shaft/compressor and move left-right-up-down
The shaft does spin very freely and smoothly.
Sound about right?
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=21899.msg170547#msg170547
A K14 should be very similar. Still even if it is not, if it spins freely, then it's very unlikely that it is causing your drop in fuel economy.
I know mine does not have that much play, not even close. But like i said it spins freely and smoothly like butter. And it doesn't rub the housing.
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Look what arrived today, new TD pump and injectors from Giles, time to get to work.
Couple install questions though. I notice two locations for electrical connections, one just above the injector lines (just like my eco pump), for the fuel shut off valve and also one down toward the bottom of the pump (my eco doesn't have that connection) what's it for and does it need to be hooked up.
Also when reinstalling the pump, do you simply put on the pulley and lock in your pump locking pin to get approximately the right timing then go though the actually timing? I though there were marks on the pump and where it mounts to engine that are supposed to be lined up?
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_0954.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_0955.jpg)
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Hi Andy
glad you got the pump/injectors ok. they look like they survived the trip.
connect the bottom solenoid with constant power if you don't want the light load (partial throttle) retard for the advance to function.
or you can put a switch on it inside the car to have power to it or not when you want it on or off.
with it off it functions so that you have retarded timing duringlight load throttle for quieter running and maybe better fuel economy.
when you put your foot down it doesn't do anything with 12v to it or not same difference.
so start with no power to it and see how you like it then connect 12v and see the difference.
timing is always set with the dial indicator gauge after setting the basic belt position and tension, set it to .95mm
Giles
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There should be marks on the pulley and bracket, line 'em up then pin the pulley.
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Hi Andy
glad you got the pump/injectors ok. they look like they survived the trip.
connect the bottom solenoid with constant power if you don't want the light load (partial throttle) retard for the advance to function.
or you can put a switch on it inside the car to have power to it or not when you want it on or off.
with it off it functions so that you have retarded timing duringlight load throttle for quieter running and maybe better fuel economy.
when you put your foot down it doesn't do anything with 12v to it or not same difference.
so start with no power to it and see how you like it then connect 12v and see the difference.
timing is always set with the dial indicator gauge after setting the basic belt position and tension, set it to .95mm
Giles
Thanks Giles, I have a hunch that based on what you described I'll like the pump with out the 12V to the solenoid, for the better mileage at light load. So I'll leave it unconnected for now.
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There should be marks on the pulley and bracket, line 'em up then pin the pulley.
As far as the "bracket", you are referring to the fixed bracket that the pump actually mounts to correct?
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Don't sweat looking for marks on sprockets... often not there, and not needed:
Basic belt timing is set by:
- cam sprocket loose
- cam locked at TDC with cam lock plate
- pump sprocket locked at TDC with pump lock pin
- crankshaft at TDC mark on flywheel
- cam sprocket tightened
Actual pump timing is set to 0.95mm using a dial indicator as per the service manual or here:
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28 (http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28)
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Don't sweat looking for marks on sprockets... often not there, and not needed:
Basic belt timing is set by:
- cam sprocket loose
- cam locked at TDC with cam lock plate
- pump sprocket locked at TDC with pump lock pin
- crankshaft at TDC mark on flywheel
- cam sprocket tightened
Actual pump timing is set to 0.95mm using a dial indicator as per the service manual or here:
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28 (http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28)
That's basically what i planned on doing, except i have to swap out my old pump pulley from my eco pump on to my new pump. And what I wanted to make sure of is that by simply rotating the pump pulley so that i can lock in the pump pin (with all the other conditions above mentioned), i should be good to go, then tighten up my timing belt and cam pulley bolt, then start in on my pump timing with my dial indicator. Correct?
By the way i have used your write up on checking/adjusting timing a bunch of times, very good write up.
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Be sure to empty the guts on your ECO diesel cat if you're running that pump. You may end up having issues.
Good luck.
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I SERIOUSLY need to do that... I've got a 1.6 running with a "tad" more fuel than stock dumping through an AAZ cat. Wanna bet it's causing me some grief?
Thing is right now I'm trying to find a new house... and my exhaust is in one piece... Almost wish the damn thing would rust out so I had an excuse!!
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Don't sweat looking for marks on sprockets... often not there, and not needed:
Basic belt timing is set by:
- cam sprocket loose
- cam locked at TDC with cam lock plate
- pump sprocket locked at TDC with pump lock pin
- crankshaft at TDC mark on flywheel
- cam sprocket tightened
Actual pump timing is set to 0.95mm using a dial indicator as per the service manual or here:
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28 (http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28)
Yeah that would be fine but if it's like my pulley it's got two holes that the pin fit's in, mine has the mark though.
I guess you could point the keyway the right direction but I forgot what that is ::).
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Be sure to empty the guts on your ECO diesel cat if you're running that pump. You may end up having issues.
Good luck.
Already done, 2.25 down pipe and 2.5 in exhaust already installed.
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Don't sweat looking for marks on sprockets... often not there, and not needed:
Basic belt timing is set by:
- cam sprocket loose
- cam locked at TDC with cam lock plate
- pump sprocket locked at TDC with pump lock pin
- crankshaft at TDC mark on flywheel
- cam sprocket tightened
Actual pump timing is set to 0.95mm using a dial indicator as per the service manual or here:
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28 (http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28)
Yeah that would be fine but if it's like my pulley it's got two holes that the pin fit's in, mine has the mark though.
I guess you could point the keyway the right direction but I forgot what that is ::).
I think my pulley only has one hole for the lock pin, which will work toward my benefit, i'll have to look when I pop the timing cover off. Also I'll take note of where the key way is on my eco pump before I pull it off. I'll make sure to mark the pulley and or key way position before it comes apart.
You guys using any special puller to get the pulley off? Seems like it should come off being that the pump shaft if tapered.
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i use a gear puller and some tapping with a hammer. it's keyed so it won't come right off.
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Probably a bad idea and you'll have plenty of people tell you not to, but I have used a screwdriver behind the pulley to wedge it off. The only puller I have is the one for the TDI camshaft, and it won't work, so I got creative.
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In Cali, the petroleum refiners are required to change smog gasoline formulations from summer to winter, and winter gasoline makes horrible power and mileage goes to sh!t. Late model, ragged edge, fuel injection tunes have to be completely rescanned and spark and fuel tables modified for winter crap gas in you high compression late model hot rods. (My LS2 at 11:1 AFR freaks out when they switch the gas)
Do the diesel refiners in anybody's area have to change to a "winter diesel" formulation for air quality reasons, and if so, could that have massacred somebody's mileage overnight, regardless of tuning/repair/etc.???
Is Cali #2 LS pump diesel considered worse than 49 state or CANA #2??
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In Cali, the petroleum refiners are required to change smog gasoline formulations from summer to winter, and winter gasoline makes horrible power and mileage goes to sh!t. Late model, ragged edge, fuel injection tunes have to be completely rescanned and spark and fuel tables modified for winter crap gas in you high compression late model hot rods. (My LS2 at 11:1 AFR freaks out when they switch the gas)
Do the diesel refiners in anybody's area have to change to a "winter diesel" formulation for air quality reasons, and if so, could that have massacred somebody's mileage overnight, regardless of tuning/repair/etc.???
Is Cali #2 LS pump diesel considered worse than 49 state or CANA #2??
in my situation, it's not the winter/summer diesel blend affecting my mileage, I have run the car both summer and winter with poor mileage.
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i use a gear puller and some tapping with a hammer. it's keyed so it won't come right off.
Shoot what was I thinking. I have a 2 jaw 3 ton puller that should work, and if that doesn't I have a 3 jaw 8 ton puller that will pop it right off.
I've done the chisel behind the cam pulley before, and it worked slick.
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Does anybody want to disclose what that pump cost?
Being naturally-aspirated is really killing me. I'd love to go turbo.
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Does anybody want to disclose what that pump cost?
Being naturally-aspirated is really killing me. I'd love to go turbo.
then bolt a turbo on your engine and turn your fuel up a little bit. you dont NEED a turbo pump to run a turbo. you can do it just fine with an n/a pump. if you arent looking for a complete performance build, just use the stock n/a pump, you already have it bolted on the engine, and im assuming it runs pretty good?
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So, how's the fuel economy after the rebuilt pump?
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then bolt a turbo on your engine and turn your fuel up a little bit. you dont NEED a turbo pump to run a turbo. you can do it just fine with an n/a pump. if you arent looking for a complete performance build, just use the stock n/a pump, you already have it bolted on the engine, and im assuming it runs pretty good?
I'm not trying to thread-jack, I just wanted to say thanks for the encouragement.
Back on topic... yeah, what's the fuel mileage like, now?
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Working on it this weekend, been working on getting my gauges in today. I've haven't had much time to work on it.
Plan on starting the pump install tomorrow, I'll report back.
With my new injectors and my eco pump, I can pull 10 psi of boost on a heavy load, sound about right?
On another note, my turn signals don't work when my head lights are on, WTF?
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Working on it this weekend, been working on getting my gauges in today. I've haven't had much time to work on it.
Plan on starting the pump install tomorrow, I'll report back.
With my new injectors and my eco pump, I can pull 10 psi of boost on a heavy load, sound about right?
On another note, my turn signals don't work when my head lights are on, WTF?
Those late Jettas had a lot of problems with the headlight switches. I'd start there and move to other things. Also check your grounds in the engine bay, and the headlight bulbs themselves. I've had issues on headlights where one light would go high beam, and the other low. Then they'd switch when when I hit the high beam switch. Turned out to be mis-matched bulb brands. New bulbs fixed it.
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I think i found my turn signal issue, silly switched out to amber bulbs when i swapped in clear turn signals just recently, i didn't by dual filament bulbs, have to go get the right bulbs.
I'm in the process of the pump install right now, and am about to time the pump, going smooth so far.
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Success!! Car is running and warming up on the new pump.
I think i need to adjust the idle speed, I'm going to wait until it comes up to temp and check RPM at the IP pulley with my laser tach, I'll be going off the bentley specs and divide by 2 for the IP pulley speed
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Pump install is complete. Over all is went very well. Not too many issues, other than my return line from the out bolt blowing off, had to replace the cheap clear tubing I had on there with some black rubber line, and it took awhile for all the air to get out of the system.
Out with the old pump, it looks pretty ragged.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_0968.jpg)
New pump installed with, new lines as well, set the timing to .95mm per Giles recommendation.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_0962.jpg)
I also installed my votex console, with my gauges and new radio, the radio isn't wired up so I have to come back and do that later, the stock radio hole will get a blank pocket/cubby.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_0966.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_0965.jpg)
This coming week i have to get these rims mounted on some snow tires and I'll be ready for winter mode. I also have to get a new battery, the battery is on it's way out and doesn't hold a charge all that well.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/andydoaki/Jetta%20Diesel/IMG_0971.jpg)
Overall I am pleased with the new pump, throttle response is better, the car pulls a lot harder, it feels kind of like driving a TDI that has a few less ponies.
I also pulled 15lbs of boost in 3rd and 4th before I got to 1200 degrees EGT and backed out of it. The EGTs really stay up there on 5th gear long hill pulls, maybe an intercooler will be my next summer project, i can't imagine what the EGTs would be with a stock exhaust, scary.
Many thanks to Giles for the new pump and injectors, it took a while and some headaches but looks like i have a strong pump and good injectors (that don't leak ;) )
I won't be able to do a mileage run until later this week, so I'll have to wait to see what I come up with for numbers.
Overall i'm pleased, the car has been sitting for the last few months and it feels good to have it running well again.
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Awesome.
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My luck did not last long, the car died on me today after only 60 miles on the new pump.
The car started to loose power and sputtered and died on the side of the road. Not very pleased.
After investigation I can not pull a suction on the line out of the "Out Bolt" to pull fuel through the pump. When i do this, the pump just makes a gurgling sound. If I do this for a little while, the car might fire, but it just dies shortly after, it appears the pump is just not pumping fuel.
I've checked all my connections, all lines are tight, no lines are plugged, I have 12v to the solenoid with key on.
I'm not sure what to do, I need to get a hold of Giles, but he's not open until the 4th >:(
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You mean it just pulls air through the pump?
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You mean it just pulls air through the pump?
thats what it seems, i cant seem to get it to hold a prime, and when i do get a little fuel into the pump it will fire and then die, i easily could pull a prime right after i finished the install.
it seems odd that it ran perfect for 60 miles and now wont pump fuel
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I would suggest isolating the pump by applying suction at the out connection on the filter...my guess is an obstruction upstream of the pump.
Usual causes include frozen water or crud at the tank pickup or inside the filter.
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check the outlet of the fuel tank, check the inlet at the banjo bolt on the fuel filter, check for fuel leaks along the entire length of the fuel line. check every connection where it goes from rubber hose to solid fuel line. check to see if your clear fuel hose going from the filter to the pump, make sure no air is getting in there.
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I would suggest isolating the pump by applying suction at the out connection on the filter...my guess is an obstruction upstream of the pump.
Usual causes include frozen water or crud at the tank pickup or inside the filter.
I did in fact apply suction at the out connection on the pump, trying to pull fuel through the pump and ultimately through the out connection of the filter, and that's where i can't pull fuel through the pump and just get the gurgling.
I'm going to start at by pulling the fuel pickup, investigate and work my way toward the pump, if I have to rig up a 5 gallon fuel tank straight to the pump to prove the pump is good/bad, then so be it.
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check the outlet of the fuel tank, check the inlet at the banjo bolt on the fuel filter, check for fuel leaks along the entire length of the fuel line. check every connection where it goes from rubber hose to solid fuel line. check to see if your clear fuel hose going from the filter to the pump, make sure no air is getting in there.
I have checked a few of the connections you mentioned, haven't gotten to the entire system, just got too frustrated and didn't have time.
I'm going to thoroughly check each connection, air test, etc. maybe even put in a new fuel filter.
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I would suggest isolating the pump by applying suction at the out connection on the filter...my guess is an obstruction upstream of the pump.
Usual causes include frozen water or crud at the tank pickup or inside the filter.
I did in fact apply suction at the out connection on the pump, trying to pull fuel through the pump and ultimately through the out connection of the filter, and that's where i can't pull fuel through the pump and just get the gurgling.
My suggestion was not to apply suction at the out connection on the pump but rather at the out connection on the filter.
Running the car from its own diesel supply, as it sounds like you're gonna try, is another good way to isolate where the issue is, though.
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My suggestion was not to apply suction at the out connection on the pump but rather at the out connection on the filter.
Running the car from its own diesel supply, as it sounds like you're gonna try, is another good way to isolate where the issue is, though.
I got ya, basically what your saying is to try and pull a suction from the tank to the filter, I'm definitely going to check those lines.
I also want to check the fuel/water separator, I've never drained that before, any suggestions on how to do it?
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looks line i need new supply line check valve, pretty sure it failed and it's hard to open. I looked through the entire system, ran the car right at the filter off a can of diesel and the pump was good.
Blew down all the lines and the car still died after running a few minutes. I ended up cutting out the supply line check valve, and a temporarily re-plumbed the system without one, the car ran just fine.
I have to what until monday for the parts stores to open up due to the holiday, so i can get a generic check valve.
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Don't know where to turn, removing the check valve completely didn't help this issue, all the lines are clear, i checked all the fittings, can't find any leaks. I'm still trying to work the air out of the system after i opened the lines/system. And i still get some slugs of air into the pump, don't know what to do next
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Looked at it again, there is mass amounts of air on the return side of the pump, while only a little bit on the supply side, seeing as how i check the entire tight back to the tank and clear, i would assume the pump itself is sucking in air.
I have no where to turn at this point, stumped.
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if only the pump was bleeding pressure somewhere, you could cover it in soap suds and see it bubbling. Is there anyway to do the opposite of that and see where it's sucking from??
To me, if you have the pump sucking from a jug of diesel up front and returning to that same jug... and STILL getting heaps of air into the injectors the pump sucks in air VERY badly... from somewhere.
Guess Giles just goofed on something? maybe something was forgotten and wasn't torqued down on/inside the pump?
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if only the pump was bleeding pressure somewhere, you could cover it in soap suds and see it bubbling. Is there anyway to do the opposite of that and see where it's sucking from??
To me, if you have the pump sucking from a jug of diesel up front and returning to that same jug... and STILL getting heaps of air into the injectors the pump sucks in air VERY badly... from somewhere.
Guess Giles just goofed on something? maybe something was forgotten and wasn't torqued down on/inside the pump?
We'll i haven't found any visible leak on the pump body, i would have found them when i primed the pump because i'm using a little hand pump from a can of diesel to push diesel through the pump, when i do this all the air gets forced out of the return line and turns to clear diesel and the pump is slightly pressurized.
I'm going to pressure test the lines from the tank to the filter today and see if they are good before i absolutely point my finger at the pump.
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nobody has went over this posibility since its a new pump, but possibly the input shaft seal got messed up some how installing it or the shaft through it? thats the first place i usually think of an air leak, and if not that much air is being fed into the pump, and tons of air is being fed back out of the pump, something is getting past the seals, and the front seal is the only one under suction im pretty sure. and everything past the vain pump is at a high pressure.
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"Guess Giles just goofed on something? maybe something was forgotten and wasn't torqued down on/inside the pump?"
not saying that i can't make a mistake sometimes but every pump is test on the test stand before it goes out and
i would know if a pump was sucking air because we force feed the pump with about 2 psi of fuel pressure and it would
leak fuel and drip on the test stand.
Andy the Doakster has a supply problem if he has Air in the system.
Giles
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... and I'm gonna lock this thread (temporarily) so that we can keep our help focused in the thread with the correct title... less confusing for all involved:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=22625.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=22625.0)
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....temporarily unlocked for an update...
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To update on the my mileage issue, I ended up getting another rebuild pump from Giles and got it installed. Based on what we've discussed in this thread it would have seemed my previous ECO pump was the cause of my poor mileage.
Unfortunately I did a small mileage run today and my mileage didn't increase a bit with my new Giles pump, still at 32mpg.
To Recap, the car has....
-New Giles Pump and Injectors, timing set to .95mm
-New Fuel and Air Filter
-Completely New Brakes Front and Rear, which are not dragging at all.
-New Front Hubs with new bearings
-New Rear Wheel Bearings
-Verified my Odometer and Tachometer against a GPS and nearly dead on
-Verified compression, which was very good and in spec
-Car makes good boost numbers underload, plenty of boost present on my boost gauge
-Verified no turbo intake boot leaks
-Installed, 2.25 DP, and exhaust, no Catalytic converter installed
-Trans, ring and pinion was changed from ECO 4.25 to 3.94
The only other issue i can think of is a bad CV joint, but you would think i would notice that with such poor mileage.
Any other ideas are appreciated, I've dump thousand of dollars into this car to try and get the mileage up to what it should be and upgrade the car, but I've had horrible luck so far.
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Could the odo work fine and then at say, 300 miles, fail to roll the hundred over again?
Something is badly wrong to get such poor mileage.
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The best thing to do would be get a gps and let it get connected before driving, use it for a whole tank and see if it and your odo are close to the same. Check your mileage with it too.........
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I've verified my tachometer and odometer against a GPS, on a 125 mile run (with the GPS), the tach and the odometer were only below by a few miles, maybe 121 or so, not nearly enough to cause the poor mileage.
You can more or less account the difference in mileage to my larger tires...205/45/16
So....my tach and odometer are not the issue. I know what you guys are getting at....the frequently found chipped or cracked gear that runs the odometer in the gauge cluster.
My tire pressure is good....I've had this issue for a long time now...regardless of where my tire pressure is at.
Plus over a year ago after I replaced just about everything on the front end, (still had the ECO pump and AVX 4.25 R&P in the trans) and the car got 43mpg consistently. Then it just dropped to low 30s.
To me it CAN'T be anything with the motor or trans, the trans is freshly rebuilt, had the low milege before and after. Motor compression is in good shape, injectors and pump are all rebuild by Giles, had the low mileage before and after that too.
I'm REALLY REALLY stumped.
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I don't mind recaping....any advice is appreciated.
Don't know what T-Stat is in there...but it's the original one when i got the car, I haven't touched the coolant system, and I was getting 43mpg with it...then the sudden change. I don't trust my in dash gauge (like everyone else), but it usually runs no more than 1/2 when cruising, plus I periodically shoot my head outlet line with a laser temp gun, it doesn't run more than 170F
Engine oil is and always has been Rotella T, 15W40, got 43mpg with it before
Engine has 113,000 on it, like I said, compression test was excellent, around 450psi on all cylinders if i remember correctly.
Trans has less than 2k on a fresh rebuild, done last fall, the rebuild is when I installed the 3.94 R&P and the Peloquin LSD, i was getting the poor mileage before and after the rebuild, no change. I thought this would help me at least some, but not change going from the AVX 4.25 to the 3.94
I'm not a lead foot, far from it. Most of the mileage tests/run that I'm going on are all highway mileage at not more than 65mph. I've always driven the car the same and even when I'm somewhat hard on the car I only see a few MPG decrease.
Back when I got 43mpg, I could drive it highway, city, somewhat hard, or easy, didn't matter and I always got 40-43mpg
My other ideas of things to check are the preload on the front bearings, maybe there is too much? But then you would think that would cause premature failure.
Or my CV joints, I have no audible/clicking noises in them now, how would I check if one is bad?
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Anyone?
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Tires are too fat,.. maybe.
205s are pretty wide, I have them on my Golf but haven't checked the mileage lately.
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What RPM do you normally upshift at?
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has the front end been aligned recently?
poor front end alignment can wreak havoc on your mileage(as well as tires, tie rods, bearings etc...)
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I'm assuming that your odometer is correct, which is a big assumption. That is the first thing I would confirm, over a long drive. Either that or I would test mileage against a gps, or over a premeasured ~200 mile trip, and ignore the odo.
The way I see it, you are either burning the fuel, or leaking it.
Burning enough fuel to drop mileage to 30 mpg should result in a fair amount of black smoke, more soot than normal out the exhaust (and in the pipe), and higher than normal egts. Do you have an egt gauge? If so, did it change with the mileage change? With a close to stock engine, even putting one in now might help, as there are lots of people with knowledge to give you a baseline to compare to.
I'd test for leaking fuel by parking over a big white sheet (flea market/second hand store/wife's linen closet) and running the car for at least a half an hour, running the engine up and down in rpm, and holding steady somewhere around your cruise rpm for at least 5 minutes. I'd also (when the car is NOT running, before the test) loosely wrap the I.P., and injection lines, and injectors, with strips from the sheet to catch finely atomised spray from a leak somewhere there.
Last thoughts, I only read a couple pages, but I didn't see where you've commented on how the car runs? Does it run like a bag, or go like a scalded cat, or is it just about normal? I think that they'd have to be pretty bad (think melted precups and pistons) to make that much of a difference, but have you checked for leaky injectors?
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Doak, time for old school solutions and basepoint. You will need a one gallon gas can full of Diesel, a five gallon gas can full of diesel and someone in another "known good vehicle" that does not have larger than factory tires etc. Drive your vehicle till it runs out of fuel, or rather till it just starts to sputter and die. Pull to a safe side of the road, and add one gallon of fuel. Have your chase vehicle set their Odometer to 0, then turn off all accessories in your vehicle and keep the windows closed, restart and drive until you run out of fuel again. If you can do this on a flat stretch of road and keep it a 55 mph it will really, really help the mileage. Now you also want to take note of the turbo PSI and see exactly what it is doing at this speed. So you drive it and when you run out of fuel again see how far your chase vehicle has traveled. Now if the mileage is still bad, do the same procedure only this time take your fuel from a one gallon container instead of the fuel tank, this eliminates the feed system from the tank. Again take good note of what the Turbo is doing during these drives, it might not be working quite right. Also, guess what the 5 gal can is for, hehehe. ;D
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Tires are too fat,.. maybe.
205s are pretty wide, I have them on my Golf but haven't checked the mileage lately.
thats what i was getting at. my jetta got horrible mileage with 205/40/17's on it. the wheels are alot heavier, and alot wider.
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To answer everyone's questions.
What RPM do I upshift at? I don't have a tach since it was orgininally and ECO car, but I don't rev it too high or too low when i shift, just enough so i'm in the power a little bit and I shift.
As far as the Odometer is concerned....let me reiterate...it's been checked against a GPS. On a 125 mile run (with the GPS) it got 121 on the odometer. The odometer is not off enough to cause this much of a mileage decrease. With that difference, i only see a few tenths difference in checking on the odometer vs the GPS
As far as the fuel system is concerned, there a NO leaks in the system, I went through the entire system when i installed my Giles pump. I have a new pump, new injector supply and return lines, new injectors, and various new supply and return lines to and from the tank. There are absolutely no leaking the system. Before and after going through the fuel system the poor mileage was the same.
For the alignment, it was aligned about 8,000 miles ago...but the car runs straight as a arrow when taking my hands off the wheel, and my tires have never worn unevenly.
As far as the 205 wide tires go....after I redid the entire front end I put on the 205s, and I got 43mpg for a long time, then the sudden drop...so it's not the tires.
I still think I should check the CV joints, they are the only thing in the front end that are not new. What's the method for checking CV joints.
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Oh and to add....I have and EGT gauge and boost gauge in the car....car runs anywhere from 650-900 in highway at 5-7 psi boost, going 65mph
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If you are certain that you are not leaking the fuel, then you are burning it. Question is why?
If it's timed properly, and not billowing unburnt fuel all the time (you dont trail a smokescreen, do you?) then it's probably running right, and maybe we are chasing the wrong goose. Next time you drive it, as soon as you stop, walk around it and feel the wheel centers to see if one is warm. For mine (I drive a little hard) they would normally be warm, but not uncomfortably hot. Fronts and rears may be a little different, you are really looking for one wheel hotter than the others, but if the rears were both any hotter than the fronts, I'd rip them apart and see what you find. Basically, I'm looking for bad bearings, or more likely dragging brakes.
Again, good luck.
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Oh and to add....I have and EGT gauge and boost gauge in the car....car runs anywhere from 650-900 in highway at 5-7 psi boost, going 65mph
That's weird, I have an EGT gauge and no turbo and it runs 550-850F at 65mph on flat ground.
With that much boost just cruising it seems like you should have a lot lower exhaust temps.
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Keep in mind, a have a little more fuel going to the motor with the new Giles pump.
By new pump I mean is has like 250miles of driving on it, it's brand new, the car does not make a smoke screen, it's not burning too much fuel, before and after the new pump I was getting low 30s, so it's not the pump or too much fuel that is the issue. There is light smoke when accelerating somewhat hard, but to be expected with the new pump.
The timing is not off either, it's set to .95mm, I've done timing checks on this car many times, and played with it either way, and got no change in the mileage.
As far as balancing the wheels, they were balanced when i first got them, so about 8,000 miles ago, but i don't feel that is the issue. The ride excellent and no shaking on the steering wheel like a typical unbalanced wheel would.
My wheels bearing in the rear a brand new, wheels spin extremely easy and smooth by hand. Up front they have about 8,000 mile on new front wheel bearings. Wheels spin freely up front, a little harder up front but to be expected with my LSD in the trans.
I'll say this again, MY BRAKES ARE NOT DRAGGING, i've done the touch the disk/drum/wheel test after 50-100 miles of driving and they are always cold to the touch, never hot.
All they typical stuff that usually causes poor mileage has already been checked or replaced on this car, with no luck.
I found a coolant leak coming from somewhere tonight, which i'm not too happy about, I was planing on going through the entire coolant system anyway, so that is next on the list, at some point, I'm getting sick of putting money into and working on this car, to find the mileage problem.
Anyone want to buy a low mileage car where nearly everything is new on it?
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Oh and to add....I have and EGT gauge and boost gauge in the car....car runs anywhere from 650-900 in highway at 5-7 psi boost, going 65mph
So is that 5psi when cruising along the flat, or are we talking 5 to 7 as you zip past someone?
I'd expect from my Quantum, to be nearer 2psi or less on cruising, beyond 70mph as well, unless up an incline.
Now I've changed my air filter, maximum boost driving 'reasonably' up a '1 in 3' is about 9 or 10psi.
Prior to that it was about 6psi.
Is your turbo calling for more fuel unneccessarily :o
Is you exhaust carrying more heat than it should, ie retarded?
Are your injectors set on the high side of bar spec?
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OK, I was pondering this a little further last night, and I figured perhaps rather than guessing at the problem, I could suggest some more testing that may help locate the problem. I figure if you are burning extra fuel, and the motor is running nicely, there must be an added load somewhere. What I did was go out on the road near my house, I ran it up to a steady 80km/h (almost exactly 50mph) and then I let it decel, clutch down (disengaged), in 4th gear so that it was spinning the whole tranny, to 40km/h (25mph). This took 40 seconds, give or take a couple of tenths. I may go out and check to see if there is any difference if I do this in 5th, or neutral, but this should be enough to get you started. This is testing the rolling load of the car, if your results are similar to mine, then I would be looking at engine setup, but if yours slows down ~30% faster than mine, then you have a rolling load somewhere between the engine and the ground.
My car is a 91, big bumper, 350000km, with Passat front and rear disk brakes. I'm running 205/50/15s on the front, and 185/65/14s on the rear till I can find a nice pair/set to replace my rear 205s. I know that both rear rotors are just a little bit warped, so they may drag just a little bit, but I get almost 40 miles per us gallon even when I beat on it, so there can't be too much of a drag.
Again, I hope some of this may help.
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I might try the rolling test Runt suggested, not a bad idea, can't hurt. I also might try to get the tires rebalanced and checked for warpage. But now that I think of it, I installed a brand new (different set of wheels) on 195/65/15 tires for the winter, and still got the same poor mileage, so it's regardless of what wheel/tire set up I run.
To answer some of the questions, is my turbo calling for more fuel? I don't believe so since my original IP pump was an ECO pump (no boost enrichment), got 32 miles on that pump and when I switched my Giles LDA pump I got the same mileage.
Is my timing retarded?....no, it's set to .95, per Giles suggestions.
Are my injectors one the high side of the bar setting....no, they were rebuilt by Giles, pop tested to 155 bar for TD injectors, I trust him.
I run 5-7psi boost, cruising on the flat at 65mph
I still need to tear into the coolant system, since i now have a leak, and I will probably tear apart the front end at some point, I have no indication of bad bearings, but I can never tell with this car.
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Hi,
Well, being a citizen of the UK , I don't have ay experience of Giles' pumps, but I do know he has a great following.
However, if that were a standard pump,then 0.95 for a pump supplying 155bar injectors,is slightly retarded, or are we not talking 1.6TD stuff here?
A retarded pump will give more heat in the exhaust, so give more boost won't it?
Cruising at 65mph in my Quantum can be as little as 0.5 psi, but certainly under 2psi. 5psi makes me think your engine is being loaded, with a resistance of some sort. (I could of course be talkin' rubbish though ;D)
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Do you still have the stock K14?
I have a K24 on my mk2 big bumper car and on the highway around 55-60 I'm making 1-3 psi.
So to get this straight, your car was making 43mpg then one day you got in it and filled up and you were at 33 so you started checking/replacing things?
On page 7 when you installed the new pump you said that the return line blew off. Was the car running for a bit then it popped off? Have you looked any further into this?
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if that were a standard pump,then 0.95 for a pump supplying 155bar injectors,is slightly retarded,
Right you'd be... if it was a *standard* pump. A Giles pump has oodles and oodles of dynamic advance, so a slightly retarded static setting is appropriate in this very specific case.
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I'll add my $0.02
Sounds like everything fuel is covered
Sounds like the mechanical stuff is also covered (brakes, tires, odometer, compression, etc).
The only things that come to my mind are:
1) Cam timing to rest of the system. You seem pretty comprehensive, but I just wanted to point it out as a possibility. The cam sprocket must be loosed and the cam locked in place when the TB is done. Then, after the TB has been tightened, then you can tighten the cam sprocket down.
2) Clogged fuel return line? I think you said you blew it out, but just in case...
3) Bad "OUT" bolt on the pump? Someone here was having a HELL of a time with air bubbles and fuel starvation at higher RPMs. It turns out that they had put a standard "IN" banjo bolt where there should have been the restricted OUT bolt. This would make sense after the pump install, but cannot explain the sudden loss of MPG with the old pump, unless the screen/check valve in the pump suddenly crapped out.
This might also explain why you blew a return line.
4) Libbybapa mentioned this, and it sounds like you're looking into it, but T-stat can affect MPG. Get a good Whaler brass one for 87 degrees Celsius. Your T-stat could be stuck open, and reducing the thermal efficiency of the diesel burn.
5) Alternator/AC draw? I'd assume the idle would be low if they were really drawing engine power, but who knows...
I'm out. Those are the only things left that come to mind. I'd start with the OUT bolt and see. Also, it can't hurt to play with the pump timing. You could retard it a bit and see what happens. I generally find that despite what the dial indicator says, I can generally time a car better by ear than with the dial (just twist the pump while the car is running). From there, advance it or retard it to your desired power/MPG zone.
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Thanks for all the replies guys....here's my answers to your replies.
The timing....the new Giles pump is a TD pump, the .95mm came from Giles suggestions. I've messed with advancing/retarding the timing with the car, a few times when I had my original ECO pump in, maybe only 1-2mph difference.
My turbo....still is the stock turbo, K14, with a 2.5in downpipe
When did I notice the issue?....I had the car being used by a family member for a few months, after the use it got mid 30s mileage, I did all the front end and brake work prior to this and was getting 43mpg, this was all about a year ago, and I've been troubleshooting (and replacing parts) since trying to look the whole car over for issues.
On page 7, when i mentioned the return line blowing off, this was due to a cheap temporary piece of clear tubing I had installed, my fault.
Quantum's questions/comments....
Cam Timing....It's dead on, I've been through the pump and cam timing on the car many a time, I thought it was the cam timing myself, so it's been checked and double checked....I even did the timing belt when i first got the car (did all the front end work at the same time) and got 43mpg afterwards.
Clogged Fuel Return Line....not the case, I've blown down EVERY line in the fuel system multiple times, I can easily blow down each line by only using my mouth, and basically every line in the system is new except the hard plastic lines under the car.
Bad Out Bolt....good suggestion, but I have a few Out bolts kicking around, all are near new condition, not plugged, and I've blown/cleaned out the OUT bolt multiple times.
Alternator/AC draw....good thought, anyone know the what the current draw should be at Idle, I'll check with my clamp on amp meter.
Even though all my front end parts give no indications of issues, the right front might be suspect, the car sat over the winter while i worked on the fuel system, pump and interior gauges.
Upon restart, they was a noise similar to a tire rubbing the inner fender in the right front only with the wheel hard to the left, no tires were rubbing, the noise eventually went away, might have to tear that side apart and take a look.
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When did I notice the issue?....I had the car being used by a family member for a few months, after the use it got mid 30s mileage, I did all the front end and brake work prior to this and was getting 43mpg, this was all about a year ago, and I've been troubleshooting (and replacing parts) since trying to look the whole car over for issues.
OK, I may touch a nerve here, but I think this is the missing peice of information. I hope you understand, working in a shop, it seems like we are always playing a game of 'Guess what the customer didn't bother to tell us this time!'. In this case, you lent the car out, and it came back with the mileage changed. My first question is, what could the operator have done that would cause a drop in mileage? How about top up the tank with gasoline? To be honest, I haven't seen the car, I don't know how it starts, or how smooth it runs, but if your rolling load test is about the same as mine, I'd rip the head off. You may see your problem right away.
I hope I'm wrong, and it just occurred to me that you may have been able to rule this out if the injectors you pulled didn't show any sign of it, but I'm just throwing out what went through my head.
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No problem on touching a nerve...the family member, was my mother.....and she's actually is a good driver, really easy on a 5spd and always tentative...i trust she didn't do anything out of the ordinary when she was using the car on her .75mile commute to and from work. I had a company car at the time, so I gave it to her to use. She'd tell me if she did anything wrong.
Even it she did put gas in it (which she didn't), i wouldn't care, cause since i've tested the compression good, new IP, new injectors, timing set correctly, that alone should equal a solid running engine (which it is).
When I started using the car again is when I noticed the mileage drop....I started using the car again Feb of 2009, since then I've done all the troubleshooting that I mentioned.
Believe me, after a year of troubleshooting, I've touched every nerve I have already.
As far as ripping the head off, why would I go to that extreme when I have a perfectly good running engine with great compression? Just rechecked my notes on the compression, had 440-450psi all cylinders, 490psi being the new spec, 417psi being a ware limit.
I'd say that's pretty good for a motor with 113k on it. No coolant in the oil either, no logical reasons to pull the head as I see it.
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One more thing, that's popped into my head related to the coolant system.
Occasionally when the car Idles for awhile, the temp will keep rising on the cluster temp gauge, rise all the way up 3/4 on the gauge....what's that tell you? Then again it's always reacted this way, even when I got good mileage.
I'm trying to think of anything that is out of the ordinary on the car to point out for thought.
Once I go through the whole coolant system I'm going to install my sensor for my Isspro temp gauge.
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Man I can't believe it's giving you so much trouble.
I wouldn't worry about compression much anyway, about the worst thing it'll do is cause hard starting. A few years ago I had around 370psi in all of 'em and still got low 40s mpg. Strangely enough I now have 420psi and get the same mileage.
Does it smoke at full power?
If it ain't smoking then you should be getting *complete* combustion, I wonder if your boost is higher than it should be and the added exhaust manifold pressure is killing efficiancy?
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Turn up the fuel.
If you are getting 33MPG you might as well have fun with it
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One more thing, that's popped into my head related to the coolant system.
Occasionally when the car Idles for awhile, the temp will keep rising on the cluster temp gauge, rise all the way up 3/4 on the gauge....what's that tell you? Then again it's always reacted this way, even when I got good mileage.
That's normal for the ECOdiesel. They tend to run a bit high on the temp gauge. Once the fan kicks in, it should drop to just over the mid point.
The only thing left that I can think of is crappy winter fuel, and the switch to ULSD? You are in the north. I'm wondering if it won't improve with more driving, and some summer fuel. Maybe some cetane boost? My MPG always suffers with winter driving. It's usually in the 2-3 MPG range, not in the 8-9 range, but it could be a combination of factors.
What else can it be? Fuel injection is all new. Turbo's producing boost. Airbox is not restricted. And the motor's got great compression.
I think the only thing left is pump timing. When it's fully warm, retard the pump until it just starts to want to stall, then rotate the pump back towards the block a touch. Don't fool with the timing gauge, it will give you a false sense of accuracy. After you've timed it, let it cool overnite. Try to start it in the morning cold with the cold start pulled out. If it still starts fine with the cold start out, leave it where it is and drive it for a while.
Go through at least a tank, and see what happens (or, fill the tank all the way up the filler neck, drive about 100 miles, and then refill all the way up the neck again). That should give you an accurate reading.
For comparison sake. I sold a 1991 ECOdiesel to a coworker of my GF. It has 210k miles on the original motor and head gasket (which leaks oil down the front). The motor has never been touched, neither has the injection pump or injectors (well, I did reseal the pump). It has the original AVX trans, Working AC and PS. I checked the compression on it before I sold it to her, and all were at about 440 PSI. I went through the cooling system, and it's all new. She consistently gets 39-42 MPG. I think with an AGS or AOP trans, that number could be a consistent 41-44 MPG.
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I think the key is your high boost at cruising. Surely the purpose of a 'Giles' pump is to give lots of power when you want it, but to use no more, and maybe less than a stock pump, when cruising??
With car turned off is it easy to push it? If so, then it's not binding up. Do you have a basic un-Giles'd pump you can swap in? If not, can you do a pressure test on the pump, to be sure it's advancing correctly?
I am shortly to reveal some readings for my pump, where I think I've cured my 'permanantly around 45mpg [UK] curse' for my car.
For years I've struggled to get it as good as my other car's 62mpg. It looks like the missing mid-speed high economy was down to pump pressure being low, as I just achieved 53.4mpg. The best ever for this engine, be it only a gallon used, and subjet to errors on fill...
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Does it smoke at full power?
If it ain't smoking then you should be getting *complete* combustion, I wonder if your boost is higher than it should be and the added exhaust manifold pressure is killing efficiancy?
What do you mean by "full power"....when cruising, no it doesn't smoke....when getting on to accelerate, yeah it will smoke a little, but not ridiculously more than I would expect with the added fuel from the Giles pump.
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One more thing, that's popped into my head related to the coolant system.
Occasionally when the car Idles for awhile, the temp will keep rising on the cluster temp gauge, rise all the way up 3/4 on the gauge....what's that tell you? Then again it's always reacted this way, even when I got good mileage.
That's normal for the ECOdiesel. They tend to run a bit high on the temp gauge. Once the fan kicks in, it should drop to just over the mid point.
The only thing left that I can think of is crappy winter fuel, and the switch to ULSD? You are in the north. I'm wondering if it won't improve with more driving, and some summer fuel. Maybe some cetane boost? My MPG always suffers with winter driving. It's usually in the 2-3 MPG range, not in the 8-9 range, but it could be a combination of factors.
What else can it be? Fuel injection is all new. Turbo's producing boost. Airbox is not restricted. And the motor's got great compression.
I think the only thing left is pump timing. When it's fully warm, retard the pump until it just starts to want to stall, then rotate the pump back towards the block a touch. Don't fool with the timing gauge, it will give you a false sense of accuracy. After you've timed it, let it cool overnite. Try to start it in the morning cold with the cold start pulled out. If it still starts fine with the cold start out, leave it where it is and drive it for a while.
Go through at least a tank, and see what happens (or, fill the tank all the way up the filler neck, drive about 100 miles, and then refill all the way up the neck again). That should give you an accurate reading.
Is the ECO coolant system any different than a TD coolant system..the only thing different on my car is the ECO turbo, everything else on the motor down to the trans final drive ratio is the same as a TD car.
For winter fuel....it doesn't have any in it anymore, plus over the last year the mileage would be poor regardless of winter/summer blend fuel. I thought that might be the case also.
I always check my mileage with the "fill to the neck" method you mentioned, on a 120ish mile trip, 95% of that highway.
As far as timing goes, i don't see why i would mess much beyond what Giles suggested, plus I had played with the timing when I had my original ECO pump in, not really any difference.
A little more info on the Injector pump...This car has had two Giles pumps in it, the first one ran only about 60mile before it died, that was totally my fault due to an over tightened timing belt which smoked the pump seal, I didn't do a full mileage test on that pump, but based on the fuel gauge usage it seemed to be about the same poor mileage.
After that Giles rebuilt another pump for me, this is the one I have in now. So, to sum up, the car has seen three different pumps in it, the original ECO, First Giles Pump, Second Giles pump, all got poor mileage, and the ECO pump was really the only pump a messed with the timing on, if I remember correctly I advanced that one.
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I think the key is your high boost at cruising. Surely the purpose of a 'Giles' pump is to give lots of power when you want it, but to use no more, and maybe less than a stock pump, when cruising??
With car turned off is it easy to push it? If so, then it's not binding up. Do you have a basic un-Giles'd pump you can swap in?
I need to do another confirmation of my boost numbers a cruising speed.
With the car in neutral, on a flat concrete garage, I can push the car easily myself.
I don't have other pump to swap into the car....but as I mentioned above, I've been through a few pumps on this car and the same results. I trust Giles built me a good pump.
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Might not be your case, but when I ordered my first 7.3L powerstroke 4x4 I was getting 20 mpg. I took it to the dealer for my first free oil change, and it dropped to 16 mpg - 20% less just like yours. The problem was, International uses synthetic in the factory to get better performance from the engine, and the dealer put 4 gallons of mineral based oil in. I switched back to synthetic and got 20 mpg again...
What trans do you have ? Could your Mom have had trans problems and a shop swapped your trans for a non-diesel trans ? What's your 70 mph engine speed ?
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Might not be your case, but when I ordered my first 7.3L powerstroke 4x4 I was getting 20 mpg. I took it to the dealer for my first free oil change, and it dropped to 16 mpg - 20% less just like yours. The problem was, International uses synthetic in the factory to get better performance from the engine, and the dealer put 4 gallons of mineral based oil in. I switched back to synthetic and got 20 mpg again...
What trans do you have ? Could your Mom have had trans problems and a shop swapped your trans for a non-diesel trans ? What's your 70 mph engine speed ?
Funny you mention all that, my daily driver truck is a 03' 7.3 Powerstroke as well, has a few mods/upgrades done to it....i ran Rotella 15W-40 for about a year, got around 15-17mpg, switched to Rotella 5W-40 synthetic, mileage didn't change a bit, but the truck runs a little smoother, I'm switching to Amsoil 5W-40 on the next change. Keep in mind the truck has always run with 33x10.50 tires, soon to be 35x12.50 tires, mileage will probably drop a tick or two after the new tires go on it.
For oil in my VW, it's always had Rotella 15W-40 in it since I've had it, got great mileage when I first had the car, I still run the same oil and mileage if now poor....I could try switching to Synthetic maybe 5W-40, but I don't think it will help 12-15mpg worth.
For the trans, it's the original AVX case, but it's been rebuilt, when it was done a 3.94 ring and pinion was swapped in place of the original 4.25 Ring and Pinion that comes in an ECO diesel trans (the AVX), also had a Peloquin Limited slip installed at the same time too. This was all many months after my mother drove it.
And I personally helped/watched the guy rebuild the trans, from start to finish, I pulled and reinstalled the trans myself, did a new clutch at the time too. The guy I went too is really good, been building VW race motors and trans forever now. It's not an issue with my trans, after the reinstall it didn't help my mileage a bit with the 3.94
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Yes, very interesting.... I used Mobil Delvac One.
One question, did you change shoes after you got it back ? Maybe the new shoes were made in China and the soles have loads of lead in them ? LOL !!
Just a thought, I understand you tested the speedo with your GPS and it was off 3%, so the other 17% is what we are looking for. Did you change the tires since you got 44 mpg ? Tire type can easily have a 17% change. Have you been checking the MPG from a variety of differnent sources ? The volume / content of the fuel could be different - like are they adding ethanol in your area ? Some are doing experiment on adding ethanol. There an SAE paper out on it.
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What about adjusting internal pressure,if put little more same talk achieved good mpg.
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A few questions and ideas for you.
Where do you buy your diesel? (maybe they are buying cheeper/lower grade to save money)(Watered down)
have you tried using a diesel additive (to boost c-tain by 8 points or so)
have you replaced your thermostat (the one in there may be worn out or stuck open)
forgot if you have A/C, if so, maybe compressor is stuck to run all the time or the bearings are dragging
alternator may be worn out, causing drag on yout system (bad bearings)
water pump or power stearing pump or any other accessory driven by a belt
the fuel water seperator in the back may be full of water (needs drained)
what kind/type of grease did you use to do your wheel bearings,
did you go from drum to disk brakes? did you change your rotor sizes?
Ok, so after replacing all of the parts you said you did
maybe lets say you lost 2 mpg by putting in the new injectors(better flow=more fuel), 2 mpg by using the new super pump, 2 mpg by fixing the air leaks (which allows you to use more fuel for more boost) (and becasue we are just saying) 1-2mpg for dragging wheel bearings due to bad machining and bad grease, and bearings maybe too tight as well (cause where just saying) If your belts are too tight or too loose and your accessories are dragging 2mpg(alt/power stearing, a/c etc...) if your thermostat is stuck or not working right that can also suck 2 mpg. add some watered down diesel, restricted filters, and maybe a heaver foot (with all that extra power you now have) or even driving 10mph faster, keeping up with traffic, or stop and go traffic. SO, if all that could be so, theres 15mpg in the mix there. though its just me thinking aloud and assuming that these might be issues
just another thought, since you had your alignment, how are you tires wearing,
Just a few more ideas, for you
Hope it helps
-Ron
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I think the only thing left is pump timing. When it's fully warm, retard the pump until it just starts to want to stall, then rotate the pump back towards the block a touch. Don't fool with the timing gauge, it will give you a false sense of accuracy. After you've timed it, let it cool overnite. Try to start it in the morning cold with the cold start pulled out. If it still starts fine with the cold start out, leave it where it is and drive it for a while.
I would try this next.
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One question, did you change shoes after you got it back ? Maybe the new shoes were made in China and the soles have loads of lead in them ? LOL !!
Just a thought, I understand you tested the speedo with your GPS and it was off 3%, so the other 17% is what we are looking for. Did you change the tires since you got 44 mpg ? Tire type can easily have a 17% change. Have you been checking the MPG from a variety of differnent sources ? The volume / content of the fuel could be different - like are they adding ethanol in your area ? Some are doing experiment on adding ethanol. There an SAE paper out on it.
The larger summer tires, my 205/50/16s, were the orginal tire that I swapped on after I did all the front end work, I've been running them since, got good mileage with them when I first swapped them, they only have about 8k on them, they wear perfectly even, no obvious issues I can see with the tires.
I have purchased fuel from a variety of different locations over the past year...same result with mileage
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What about adjusting internal pressure,if put little more same talk achieved good mpg.
I've tried this with my original ECO pump....no change in mileage, see earlier posts in this thread for details.
As I've said I've had two different Giles pumps installed, same result, I'm not going to alter the internal pressure on a fresh rebuild from Giles, when all indications point to the pump(s) not being the issue.
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Some greats thoughts and suggestions here, see my answers in blue.
A few questions and ideas for you.
Where do you buy your diesel? (maybe they are buying cheeper/lower grade to save money)(Watered down) I but my diesel from a variety of different locations, have been for the past year, same mileage regardless of where it is purchased
have you tried using a diesel additive (to boost c-tain by 8 points or so) Haven't tried this, but I don't see how 12-15mpg can be made in an additive, I've never been sold of additives
have you replaced your thermostat (the one in there may be worn out or stuck open) hasn't been changed, will tear into the coolant system soon, since i have a leak in the system
forgot if you have A/C, if so, maybe compressor is stuck to run all the time or the bearings are dragging I have A/C, but it's not stuck on, I can here it cycle on/off when turning on the AC or defrost
alternator may be worn out, causing drag on yout system (bad bearings) Good thought, I will probably check
water pump or power stearing pump or any other accessory driven by a belt Another good thought, will check
the fuel water seperator in the back may be full of water (needs drained) Fuel/Water separator has been completely removed, straight fuel line is installed.
what kind/type of grease did you use to do your wheel bearings,For rear bearings I did myself, with good quality wheel bearing grear, but the mileage was poor before I redid the brake/bearings on the rear.
For the front...when I did my front break upgrade, I installed a new spindle which came prepacked/pre-installed with wheel bearings....this is the front brake kit I have installed.....
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/101/OEM_11_3_Early_MK2_Complete_Brake_Upgrade_Kit (http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/101/OEM_11_3_Early_MK2_Complete_Brake_Upgrade_Kit)
maybe something got assembled wrong, can't trust anyone but yourself, right? These are MK4 bearins and hubs, which are sealed bearings and pre-packed with grease
did you go from drum to disk brakes? did you change your rotor sizes? Rear...all new drums, brake cylinders, shoes.....on the front MK4 VR6/1.8T 11" Rotors/Calipers
Ok, so after replacing all of the parts you said you did
maybe lets say you lost 2 mpg by putting in the new injectors(better flow=more fuel), 2 mpg by using the new super pump, 2 mpg by fixing the air leaks (which allows you to use more fuel for more boost) (and becasue we are just saying) 1-2mpg for dragging wheel bearings due to bad machining and bad grease, and bearings maybe too tight as well (cause where just saying) If your belts are too tight or too loose and your accessories are dragging 2mpg(alt/power stearing, a/c etc...) if your thermostat is stuck or not working right that can also suck 2 mpg. add some watered down diesel, restricted filters, and maybe a heaver foot (with all that extra power you now have) or even driving 10mph faster, keeping up with traffic, or stop and go traffic. SO, if all that could be so, theres 15mpg in the mix there. though its just me thinking aloud and assuming that these might be issues
just another thought, since you had your alignment, how are you tires wearing, Tires wear perfectly, no issues there
Just a few more ideas, for you
Hope it helps
-Ron
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What about adjusting internal pressure,if put little more same talk achieved good mpg.
I've tried this with my original ECO pump....no change in mileage, see earlier posts in this thread for details.
As I've said I've had two different Giles pumps installed, same result, I'm not going to alter the internal pressure on a fresh rebuild from Giles, when all indications point to the pump(s) not being the issue.
Does your mileage vary according to town/fast interstate/slow interstate? If you're missing the noticable benefits of the last one, then that could be a pump advance issue. However you are pretty sure that your pump is good.
Have you checked the resistance of the air filter? A combined boost/vac gauge from a carb/gasser fuel pump tester inserted in the boost signal line to the pump, will show a vacuum until boost starts.
You say that you can push the car freely at rest, suggesting nothing binding, yet you have this strange phenonemon of the 'rather high' boost when cruising. This boost is the only 'evidence' agreeing with the poor fuel economy. Did the ECO pump give you boost of more than a few psi when cruising?
I would suggest running the car with the boost line disconnected for a few gallons of fuel, to see if things improve.
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Some greats thoughts and suggestions here, see my answers in blue.
did you go from drum to disk brakes? did you change your rotor sizes? Rear...all new drums, brake cylinders, shoes.....on the front MK4 VR6/1.8T 11" Rotors/Calipers
That's a lot of extra weight you have spinning around up front. Did you make this change before or after the mileage drop?
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So your lovely Giles pumps are at the mercy of what ever filtering you filling station offers ? I'd at least have a filter. One drop of water in the IP isn't a good thing.
On the fuel, your 33 mpg in European terms is a 7.1 L / 100 km. http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html (http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html)
and your former 43 mpg is 5.5 L / 100 km. So, if this extra fuel is being burned, that's 1.6 L per hour (at 62 mph) or 235200 BTU's per hour, equal to about 92 hp (if 100% efficient) . That's a LOT of heat going someplace, if its all being burned.
So, the real question is, what changed while Mom was driving the car ? 33 mph is in line with what many others get when they are enjoying high speeds and acceleration.
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So, the real question is, what changed while Mom was driving the car ? 33 mph is in line with what many others get when they are enjoying high speeds and acceleration.
Yea, racing through a 20mph zone at that speed'll get yer nicked over here ;D
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Next fillup dump a quart of 2-stroke oil in the tank, can't hurt anything.
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Does your mileage vary according to town/fast interstate/slow interstate? If you're missing the noticable benefits of the last one, then that could be a pump advance issue. However you are pretty sure that your pump is good.
Have you checked the resistance of the air filter? A combined boost/vac gauge from a carb/gasser fuel pump tester inserted in the boost signal line to the pump, will show a vacuum until boost starts.
You say that you can push the car freely at rest, suggesting nothing binding, yet you have this strange phenonemon of the 'rather high' boost when cruising. This boost is the only 'evidence' agreeing with the poor fuel economy. Did the ECO pump give you boost of more than a few psi when cruising?
I would suggest running the car with the boost line disconnected for a few gallons of fuel, to see if things improve.
[/quote]
Haven't checked the resistance of the air filter, but I got poor mileage on my past older filter (that wasn't really dirty), changed to a new filter for the heck of it and still poor mileage.
I can't speak to the ECO pump showing high boost, since I got my gauges in after the ECO pump got pulled out
Which boost line are you referring to disconnecting the boost advance on the pump?
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Some greats thoughts and suggestions here, see my answers in blue.
did you go from drum to disk brakes? did you change your rotor sizes? Rear...all new drums, brake cylinders, shoes.....on the front MK4 VR6/1.8T 11" Rotors/Calipers
That's a lot of extra weight you have spinning around up front. Did you make this change before or after the mileage drop?
All front end work, new brakes, new bearings, new shocks struts, all new bushings, and the bigger wheels were put on at the same time......got great mileage afterwards.....43mpg, then the drop about 4-5months later
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So your lovely Giles pumps are at the mercy of what ever filtering you filling station offers ? I'd at least have a filter. One drop of water in the IP isn't a good thing.
So, the real question is, what changed while Mom was driving the car ? 33 mph is in line with what many others get when they are enjoying high speeds and acceleration.
I still have the standard fuel filter in the car (which is brand new), just not the water separator anymore, should not be an issue since not all 1.6s had the water separator on them. And when I gutted the separator there was no water in it, and probably had never been drained prior to me purchasing the car.
I'd like to find where my 12-15 mpg is going, unfortunately I don't enjoy high speeds and acceleration in this car....care never sees over 65-70mph, that's just the way I drive it.
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Next fillup dump a quart of 2-stroke oil in the tank, can't hurt anything.
Already tried that when the ECO pump was in.....no difference in mileage.
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Alright to re-cap, these are my thoughts based on all the good comments.
Since my boost is up and my odometer is very close to dead on, that points to a rolling resistance somewhere. I think we can agree that after 3 different pumps and no change in mileage, the pump is not the issue, or even the entire fuel system is not the issue, since it's been gone over more than once.
- I'm eliminating the rear as an issue, wheels turn/spin very very freely when car is jacked up and spinning by hand. They turn freely to the point you can get them spinning and they will continue to spin on their own for quiet some time.
- On the front, nothing indicates I have an issue.....but I still had that odd noise after the car sat awhile over the winter, I think my next option is to go over the front with a fine comb, as in disassemble and inspect if needed.
-Since I have a peloquin in the trans the wheels naturally are a little harder to spin by hand (than a standard open-diff trans)....so this mean if I really want to see if my bearings are binding, I need to pull off spindle/hub and rotate by hand, that way I can rotate the hub and check the bearings while it's completely disconnected from the car.
Thoughts??
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Has anybody else ran a peloquin? Maybe that plus.... plus .... etc ends up in a total 13mpg loss? Hope you find it soon. I think you are headed correctly. Good Luck.
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Has anybody else ran a peloquin? Maybe that plus.... plus .... etc ends up in a total 13mpg loss? Hope you find it soon. I think you are headed correctly. Good Luck.
I got 33mpg, before the trans rebuild and peloquin install......and 33mpg afterwards.....not the trans that's causing the issue.
But...the peloquin is pretty sweet, especially for winter months, that's mainly why I got it, expensive little bugger though
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Doakster, did you try the rolling decel test? If not, when you try it, perhaps try it with the tranny in gear, and clutch disengaged, and also in neutral, just to see how much difference there is? Also, perhaps some others from here could try the same thing, and see how similar their times are to mine. Steady 50mph, push clutch, roll until 25mph, on flat ground. My car took 40 seconds, within a couple tenths.
There are more variables involved, but the same test could be performed by shutting the engine off, and rolling out in gear. My high miles motor doesn't seem to have the compression braking that my last one had, and I've got the 3.94 instead of the 3.67, but if it helps, I could time this test as well.
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Does your mileage vary according to town/fast interstate/slow interstate? If you're missing the noticable benefits of the last one, then that could be a pump advance issue. However you are pretty sure that your pump is good.
Have you checked the resistance of the air filter? A combined boost/vac gauge from a carb/gasser fuel pump tester inserted in the boost signal line to the pump, will show a vacuum until boost starts.
You say that you can push the car freely at rest, suggesting nothing binding, yet you have this strange phenonemon of the 'rather high' boost when cruising. This boost is the only 'evidence' agreeing with the poor fuel economy. Did the ECO pump give you boost of more than a few psi when cruising?
I would suggest running the car with the boost line disconnected for a few gallons of fuel, to see if things improve.
Haven't checked the resistance of the air filter, but I got poor mileage on my past older filter (that wasn't really dirty), changed to a new filter for the heck of it and still poor mileage.
I can't speak to the ECO pump showing high boost, since I got my gauges in after the ECO pump got pulled out
Which boost line are you referring to disconnecting the boost advance on the pump?
[/quote]
It's the 1/4" line from inlet manifold to injection pump aneroid, which is the signal from the turbo pressure to call for extra fuel from the pump.
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My point about BTU and L / 100 km is that is a LOT of energy going some place... either it is going out the tail pipe for a variety of reasons, or something or things is getting rather warm. So, have you felt your trans case after a long drive at speed ? Your tires ? wheel bearings ? Brakes (using the engine to stop, not your brakes) ??? There is no way around this - either the energy is out the tail pipe / radiator, or is heat in some components. Your hand should find the heat :-)
Is its coming out of the engine, have you tried various injection timings ? + / - 0.05" at a time until it either will not start or runs rough ????
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To check rolling resistance you can put a bathroom scale against the trunk and push the car at a steady speed and see what it reads.
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To check rolling resistance you can put a bathroom scale against the trunk and push the car at a steady speed and see what it reads.
Now that right there is redneck...but i like it.
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Finally got around to doing some troubleshooting today....found an issue.
Went over the front end looking at everything for any sort of rolling resistance. Initially both front wheel sprung very very freely with both wheels off the ground.
But I noticed some slop in the driver side wheel bearing when check with the "hands a 12 & 6 method" and rocking the wheel back and forth, there was about 1/8 of an inch if not more of movement.
So I thought the wheel bearing was bad and started to pull everything about, and I found that the axle nut was very loose, like as in couldn't have been more than 50ftlbs loose.
The spec is 195ftlbs, so I re-tightened to the spec and there was no more slop in the bearing.
Then just to make sure, I decided to strip the brakes off both sides so everything was down to just the hubs, when spinning the hubs by hand they were both VERY VERY easy to spin, very little if any resistance.
I put everything back together and I can push the car very easily on flat ground, I haven't had time to do a mileage run yet to see if that was the issue.
If this was not the problem, the only other thing is the cooling system, I need to tear into it, flush everything, new pump, new T-Stat, etc.
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Updates?
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any updates? im curious as well.
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Bump for an update
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Sorry guys...have been real busy lately, seems I don't have a spare moment in the day, and the car hasn't gotten any attention since my last update.
The last found issue was the loose wheel bearing on the driver side. Haven't done a mileage run yet.
I actually don't see myself driving the car much anymore, I have a new dog and with all the gear I primarily use my truck, the dog and all the training/hunting gear don't fit too well in a little car. I haven't yet renewed the registration or inspection for this year, so the car is sitting in the garage.
The thought has crossed my mind to sell the car.
Anyone want a heck of a deal on a low mileage car, with a pile of new parts, that WELL surpass the value of the car?
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how much?
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If anybody is serious about the car, just send me a PM and I'll try and get back to you with more details about the car and price.
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I can't afford the whole car right now, but I'd definitely be interested in that Votex console ;D
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I can't afford the whole car right now, but I'd definitely be interested in that Votex console ;D
;D Gauges go with the console.....which goes with the car. Seriously PM me a $ number....you might be surprised what I'll take for the car...you never know.