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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 53 willys on September 25, 2009, 06:12:58 pm
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I'm really not digging on these stupid coolant reservoir style cooling systems the VW's use.....any body ever swap in a regular radiator with a radiator cap and overflow tank??
I'm thinking about fitting a FULL aluminum radiator on my car and ditching the VW plumbing...
thoughts? anybody else done this??
thanks
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VW has a non overflow tank setup, basically just a res built into the rad... find a VW with a cap on the radiator, and you have your system :-D
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VW has a non overflow tank setup, basically just a res built into the rad... find a VW with a cap on the radiator, and you have your system :-D
well I I'm trying to eliminate the VW res.....I guess I could just put the bigger radiator in and see how it runs....
these VW cooling systems don't seem very efficient...?
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-95-vw-corrado-vr6-godspeed-aluminum-radiator+12%22-fan_W0QQitemZ130332998564QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090924?IMSfp=TL0909241810002r7285 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-95-vw-corrado-vr6-godspeed-aluminum-radiator+12%22-fan_W0QQitemZ130332998564QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090924?IMSfp=TL0909241810002r7285)
wonder if this could work?? how does the top hose mount on this style VW??
anybody know of a factory style aluminum radiator?
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I'm thinking about one of these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GRI-2-28185-X/
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I'm thinking about one of these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GRI-2-28185-X/
lol yeah I was just looking at those a few minutes ago....would also need this..
http://hasport.com/store/index.php/accessories/cooling-system/egkha-fsts.html (http://hasport.com/store/index.php/accessories/cooling-system/egkha-fsts.html)
tap it out to 22mm and you are good to go.... 8)
you could also use the universal ones that are slightly cheaper if you wanted to play with the top and bottom hoes a bit...
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My cooling system seems to be fine, standard set-up.
It stays @ 1/4 on most journeys when I'm driving normal, it only goes to 1/2 when sitting on the motorway @ 80mph+ or when stuck in slow/stopped traffic.
But yes I would love to get rid of the old browny ugly tank and hoses, to make the engine bay cleaner.
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I'm thinking about one of these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GRI-2-28185-X/
lol yeah I was just looking at those a few minutes ago....would also need this..
http://hasport.com/store/index.php/accessories/cooling-system/egkha-fsts.html (http://hasport.com/store/index.php/accessories/cooling-system/egkha-fsts.html)
tap it out to 22mm and you are good to go.... 8)
you could also use the universal ones that are slightly cheaper if you wanted to play with the top and bottom hoes a bit...
As long as the sensors have the right amount of wires, you can source them from other vehicles with the same pitch. Its not like the "computer" knows if they are VW OEM or not.
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well I just dont think my car can hang with the stock radiator.....it runs a little warm since the big turbo and 11mm pump install....
if I go 60mph it will stay about 1/2 on the stock gauge...but if I run for an extend amount of time it gets heat soaked and starts to really climb..our temps here have been really mild. I wont last one utah summer if I dont do something...and the way it is now I could never run my AC..lol
wonder if my header is making it run warmer?
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my VW radiator has no problem with my engine. and i dont run an E fan either. you sure you got a copacetic radiator? does it flow good? how bout the water pump? good flow? i just dont see how your engine heats up so much. when im just cruisin, my engine goes from 180* to about 165*. then if i get on a big long hill where im deep into the boost, it climbs to 195* maybe 205* sometimes on long ones. but then it settles right back down in less than a mile once you crest the hill.
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The VW cooling system has been one of the better ones I have come across. But there are some quirks.
1, the temperature guage should stay nailed to where it chooses to be once warmed up. Both my GTD's stay at 5/8 ths of the gauge, just past halfway.
2, Thermostats get tired as they age, so the gauge is steady until you ask lots of the engine, and the thermostat can't open that last extra bit, temperature climbs, ease off and the temp nails back to its "normal" place. This is what my Red GTD does, with the ancient thermostat.
3, Some of the VW thermostats had a rubber grommet type seal to the thermostat valve. The seal was vulcanised to the metal with a dozen 3mm holes in the metal to anchor it. Rubber perishes and so did the temperature control, crap design, remove and throw at your enemy, along with the self adjusting cluch cable.
4, Dont be tempted to run without a thermostat, except in an emergency, the VW sytem is a bypass design, as the thermostat warms up, it opens the radiator flow whilst closing the radiator BYPASS flow. With no themostat, the hot engine coolant will mostly bypass the radiator. Not good.
5, How much antifreeze are you using? antifreeze doesn't move heat as well as water.
6, The coolant level light which works from the coolant bottle has saved me both engines, as it shouted out that my coolant had boiled off before I cooked the engines to oblivion. 8)
7, Then again Utah gets bloody hot! :P
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8)Aha! just seen the 700 odd posts, so you probably knew lots more than me on that! ;D
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I dont even wanna post this..but I'm beginning to think my HG might be leaking slightly???
my cooling system had FULL PSI after sitting all night...thats not normal right?
I tried the run it with the cap on for 1 min and see if there was pressure...but there was not..last time my HG blew I had lots of psi after running for only 55 seconds.
I feel the single pass radiator is NOT up to task....?..it is a diesel WITH AC radiator..but it's not that big or well built IMHO.
I should also probably note that my oil cooler has not been hooked up so maybe thats the whole problem????
it seems to get hot after driving for a while...the longer I drive the more the gauge SLOWLY rises...my after market gauge was reading 205*-just short of 210*...seems a little warm to me?
this turbo I'm running is a damn lagger...it dont start to build boost until 2k...so maybe I'm just plain over revving it??
if thats the case I wonder if a different radiator would help??
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my VW radiator has no problem with my engine. and i dont run an E fan either. you sure you got a copacetic radiator? does it flow good? how bout the water pump? good flow? i just dont see how your engine heats up so much. when im just cruisin, my engine goes from 180* to about 165*. then if i get on a big long hill where im deep into the boost, it climbs to 195* maybe 205* sometimes on long ones. but then it settles right back down in less than a mile once you crest the hill.
are you at sea level?
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I believe some of the old scirocco had the overflow built with the rad and will work. Im not sure if the size is the same though.
kane
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i am running a 'rocco rad in my rabbit...
not coolant tank, it bolts in and works well... and can be had new for around $100
pics:
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f233/greg_3821/DIESEL%20RABBIT/100_1115.jpg)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f233/greg_3821/DIESEL%20RABBIT/100_1114.jpg)
...and dont give me crap about the TB cover... this is an old pic...
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my car is pretty modded...probaly runs WAAAY hotter then the NA diesel's...I found the info on the rocco rad...it's actually smaller then the stock TD rad so thats not really an option for me.
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I think modded or not, at cruise it's making the same power and thus the same heat........
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I think modded or not, at cruise it's making the same power and thus the same heat........
not with my 11mm pump head and big turbo.... ;) my turbo is so big I cruise with 0 psi boost @70mph...lol
do NA vw's have oil coolers??
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do you guys think NOT having the oil cooler hooked up would be causing all this extra heat?? ???
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do you guys think NOT having the oil cooler hooked up would be causing all this extra heat?? ???
NA's don't come stock w/ oil coolers.
I just installed a vnt (still not working right) on my NA and don't have an oil cooler. I cruise at like 650-850F egt and the coolant temp and stays the same, the oil pressure is slightly lower.
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so a vw stock rad is 25.5 in. x 19.25 in. x 1 in, so technically a late 60's mustang 289 rad would fit, its a 1/2 inch thicker roughly.
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I would try the cooler T stat. I bet it would work for you. 205 is hot but if that is as hot as it gets I wouldn't worry too much.
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my VW radiator has no problem with my engine. and i dont run an E fan either. you sure you got a copacetic radiator? does it flow good? how bout the water pump? good flow? i just dont see how your engine heats up so much. when im just cruisin, my engine goes from 180* to about 165*. then if i get on a big long hill where im deep into the boost, it climbs to 195* maybe 205* sometimes on long ones. but then it settles right back down in less than a mile once you crest the hill.
are you at sea level?
yes, the highest climb i get around here is 2200 feet, but its not paved. its out in the woods...
and i dont run an oil cooler either. but with your engine, i would be running the water oil cooler, and a supplementary air oil cooler in front of the I/C,rad, and condenser. i would give it as much help as i can get.
kinda sounds like your turbo lags like my K24 on my audi. nothing till 2k rpms, then it wraps the needle around to the other peg instantly.
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i am running a 'rocco rad in my rabbit...
no coolant tank, it bolts in and works well... and can be had new for around $100
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f233/greg_3821/DIESEL%20RABBIT/100_1114.jpg)
What did you do with the hoses?
Can you just cap off the hose that runs to the expansion tank?
What does the hard coolant pipe on the drivers side of the block look like on a car that came without an expansion tank?
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looks just like the ones that came on the ones with an expansion tank, but without that nipple there. thats the only difference. my rabbit has a radiator just like that. i thought it was factory. has no provisions for an expansion tank.
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53Willys,
I can tell you for a fact that my TD runs cooler W/O the factory Oil cooler
(water temperature wise). I have run mine both ways with no other changes (I have an infrared thermometer). The oil temperature spikes a little more but doesn't get out of control. I am going to go to an aftermarket oil cooler before I pump up the boost though.
My water temperature stays at the top of the first third of the gauge (176 degrees) exactly at my thermostat opening. If I sit at a stop light it will go up to 185, but returns to normal as soon as the fan kicks into the second speed or I start going.
I was having trouble similar to yours (which is why I was testing so much). I replaced the radiator. Everything got better. I checked the flow on the old radiator. It has an internal leak. It never sends hot water to the drivers side of the radiator. When I pull the fan temp. sender water will only trickly out of it.
VelocityConservation
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53Willys,
I can tell you for a fact that my TD runs cooler W/O the factory Oil cooler
(water temperature wise). I have run mine both ways with no other changes (I have an infrared thermometer). The oil temperature spikes a little more but doesn't get out of control. I am going to go to an aftermarket oil cooler before I pump up the boost though.
My water temperature stays at the top of the first third of the gauge (176 degrees) exactly at my thermostat opening. If I sit at a stop light it will go up to 185, but returns to normal as soon as the fan kicks into the second speed or I start going.
I was having trouble similar to yours (which is why I was testing so much). I replaced the radiator. Everything got better. I checked the flow on the old radiator. It has an internal leak. It never sends hot water to the drivers side of the radiator. When I pull the fan temp. sender water will only trickly out of it.
VelocityConservation
hmm thats interesting VC....I would for sure NOT run the OEM coolant style oil cooler on mine I can see why that would run hotter on the gauge...I have sourced a Volvo oil cooler with a t-stat flow control.
EVRYTHING else in the coolant system is BRAND new...has about 1,200 miles on the whole system...
I got my hot climate tstat from GAP on Friday(71 deg Celsius)...probably gonna pick up that 3" thick 2 row full aluminum griffin radiator and see where that takes me...it's more then I wanna spend..but dang it..I HATE running warm..I don't want to have to worry about getting hot...especially when I start to run my AC next summer...lol
thanks for the tip VC 8)
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Let us know how the griffin piece looks and mounts?
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-95-vw-corrado-vr6-godspeed-aluminum-radiator+12%22-fan_W0QQitemZ130332998564QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090924?IMSfp=TL0909241810002r7285 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-95-vw-corrado-vr6-godspeed-aluminum-radiator+12%22-fan_W0QQitemZ130332998564QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090924?IMSfp=TL0909241810002r7285)
WOW !! That's some serious cash !! I got an all aluminum radiator that is about 25% larger than my stock VW radiator for my Caravan conversion. Paid $95 delivered with lifetime warranty http://www.radiators.com (http://www.radiators.com) It works well enough that I stayed at 195 degrees (my new thermostat setting) in the heat of the summer pulling a camper at 70 mph !
I kept my VW reservoir as it does a good job of getting the air out of your system. In a VW, the head is usually a little higher than the top of the radiator, so this is an important feature and I suspect why the German's used this design.
I should also probably note that my oil cooler has not been hooked up so maybe thats the whole problem????
Oil performs a significant amount of cooling for your internal engine parts... with your turbo your oil likely sees 400 F !
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Just a suggestion - I have a 90 16V along with my diesel car- I was having trouble with the temp climbing on it. I changed to propylene glycol (ams oil, about 2X price of regular anti-freeze), but that cured any trouble I had with temperature issues. It removes heat better than ethylene glycol.
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Just a suggestion - I have a 90 16V along with my diesel car- I was having trouble with the temp climbing on it. I changed to propylene glycol (ams oil, about 2X price of regular anti-freeze), but that cured any trouble I had with temperature issues. It removes heat better than ethylene glycol.
Here, propylene glycol is used for RV - camper water systems. its about 2/3 the price of regular anti-freeze, but does not have the anti-corrosion chemicals normal anti-freeze has. Does yours have these additives?
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While complicated, the OEM VW cooling system is one of the better ones out there. If everything is in good working order, there should not be any circumstance where it is inadequate for cooling the engine down. Most VW's tend to run a little hot anyway, it's uncomfortable sometimes but they can handle it.
Some things I have noticed that seem to help a lot though:
The factory oil cooler/warmer is junk, and should be one of the first things you should get rid of. It's a good idea, I can understand why they did it that way- the oil warms up quicker which passes heat on to the coolant to help the whole engine warm up faster. Then the cooler coolant helps wick off heat from the oil. Problem is under high stress- highway driving when it's hot, followed by stop-go traffic, the oil is quite warm, and the coolant gets really hot, so there is nowhere for the heat to go. Besides that, the oil warmers tend to develop pinhole leaks internally, which causes oil/water to mix and you have a big problem on your hands. A thermostatically controlled air/oil cooler is the way to go. The Volvo piece is a near drop-in replacement. This will help cool the oil better under high loads, and keep some of that load away from the coolant.
Always use a cooler thermostat, unless you live somewhere where it never gets above 40 degrees. Generally one step cooler is best, and what I like to do is drill a small 1/8" or so size hole in the flange on the thermostat, this lets coolant weep through before the thermostat opens, and also makes for "burping" the system much easier and has little effect on the warm-up characteristics. Make sure to swap out the fan switch with one that also comes on at a cooler temperature.
Use the specified VW coolant. Lots of people complain about this, "the vw stuff is a ripoff, the green is the same, it's all a government conspiracy, blah blah"... In my experience, VW cooling systems ALWAYS perform better with OEM coolant. VW engineered it, and designed the cooling system to use it, so that is what I'm gonna use. Order the stuff from a known retailer like German Auto Parts, their cost plus shipping is still usually less than what a VW dealer wants for it. It does also help to drop in a bottle of Redline Water wetter or equivalent as well which seems to keep the temps more stable.
The obvious things, like condition of hoses, leaks, coolant flushing, etc... are pretty self-explanatory.
If everything is working correctly, your car WILL NOT overheat, I don't care what you are doing to it.
Brendan
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not with my 11mm pump head and big turbo.... ;) my turbo is so big I cruise with 0 psi boost @70mph...lol
do NA vw's have oil coolers??
Just curious, what is your egt when cruising at 0 psi @70mph? Thanks
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While complicated, the OEM VW cooling system is one of the better ones out there. If everything is in good working order, there should not be any circumstance where it is inadequate for cooling the engine down. Most VW's tend to run a little hot anyway, it's uncomfortable sometimes but they can handle it.
Some things I have noticed that seem to help a lot though:
The factory oil cooler/warmer is junk, and should be one of the first things you should get rid of. It's a good idea, I can understand why they did it that way- the oil warms up quicker which passes heat on to the coolant to help the whole engine warm up faster. Then the cooler coolant helps wick off heat from the oil. Problem is under high stress- highway driving when it's hot, followed by stop-go traffic, the oil is quite warm, and the coolant gets really hot, so there is nowhere for the heat to go. Besides that, the oil warmers tend to develop pinhole leaks internally, which causes oil/water to mix and you have a big problem on your hands. A thermostatically controlled air/oil cooler is the way to go. The Volvo piece is a near drop-in replacement. This will help cool the oil better under high loads, and keep some of that load away from the coolant.
Always use a cooler thermostat, unless you live somewhere where it never gets above 40 degrees. Generally one step cooler is best, and what I like to do is drill a small 1/8" or so size hole in the flange on the thermostat, this lets coolant weep through before the thermostat opens, and also makes for "burping" the system much easier and has little effect on the warm-up characteristics. Make sure to swap out the fan switch with one that also comes on at a cooler temperature.
Use the specified VW coolant. Lots of people complain about this, "the vw stuff is a ripoff, the green is the same, it's all a government conspiracy, blah blah"... In my experience, VW cooling systems ALWAYS perform better with OEM coolant. VW engineered it, and designed the cooling system to use it, so that is what I'm gonna use. Order the stuff from a known retailer like German Auto Parts, their cost plus shipping is still usually less than what a VW dealer wants for it. It does also help to drop in a bottle of Redline Water wetter or equivalent as well which seems to keep the temps more stable.
The obvious things, like condition of hoses, leaks, coolant flushing, etc... are pretty self-explanatory.
If everything is working correctly, your car WILL NOT overheat, I don't care what you are doing to it.
Brendan
well I really appreciate your post and info..but I'm not sure I agree that if everything is new or in working order ito wont over heat or run warm...
my car's cooling system specs as of right now..
ALL new hoses
new water pump
new (stock) tstat
new Diesel rad with ac
new heater core
passat dual fan
cooler temp fan switch
new res cap
clean and clear res
Shell RED VW spec coolant at 60/40 mix.....
NO oil cooler hooked up right now.
no leaks..
runs at 205* and if I stay on it for a long climb I could probably over heat it...although I'm really to scared to test the theory....3/4 up on the gauge is too warm for my liking..
so you tell me what else can be done???
I know some engines run warmer with headers and maybe that's a possibility with this as well??
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-95-vw-corrado-vr6-godspeed-aluminum-radiator+12%22-fan_W0QQitemZ130332998564QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090924?IMSfp=TL0909241810002r7285 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-95-vw-corrado-vr6-godspeed-aluminum-radiator+12%22-fan_W0QQitemZ130332998564QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090924?IMSfp=TL0909241810002r7285)
WOW !! That's some serious cash !! I got an all aluminum radiator that is about 25% larger than my stock VW radiator for my Caravan conversion. Paid $95 delivered with lifetime warranty http://www.radiators.com (http://www.radiators.com) It works well enough that I stayed at 195 degrees (my new thermostat setting) in the heat of the summer pulling a camper at 70 mph !
I kept my VW reservoir as it does a good job of getting the air out of your system. In a VW, the head is usually a little higher than the top of the radiator, so this is an important feature and I suspect why the German's used this design.
I should also probably note that my oil cooler has not been hooked up so maybe thats the whole problem????
Oil performs a significant amount of cooling for your internal engine parts... with your turbo your oil likely sees 400 F !
got any pics of your rad???
I got on their web site did the online chat....what a bunch of dumb ass's...I asked them 6 times what the rads were made from brass..copper or aluminum...just keep side stepping the questions and then finally disconnected me... :-\
they wont be getting my business either way... 8)
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not with my 11mm pump head and big turbo.... ;) my turbo is so big I cruise with 0 psi boost @70mph...lol
do NA vw's have oil coolers??
Just curious, what is your egt when cruising at 0 psi @70mph? Thanks
about 600-700..?
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-95-vw-corrado-vr6-godspeed-aluminum-radiator+12%22-fan_W0QQitemZ130332998564QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090924?IMSfp=TL0909241810002r7285 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-95-vw-corrado-vr6-godspeed-aluminum-radiator+12%22-fan_W0QQitemZ130332998564QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090924?IMSfp=TL0909241810002r7285)
WOW !! That's some serious cash !! I got an all aluminum radiator that is about 25% larger than my stock VW radiator for my Caravan conversion. Paid $95 delivered with lifetime warranty http://www.radiators.com (http://www.radiators.com) It works well enough that I stayed at 195 degrees (my new thermostat setting) in the heat of the summer pulling a camper at 70 mph !
I kept my VW reservoir as it does a good job of getting the air out of your system. In a VW, the head is usually a little higher than the top of the radiator, so this is an important feature and I suspect why the German's used this design.
I should also probably note that my oil cooler has not been hooked up so maybe thats the whole problem????
Oil performs a significant amount of cooling for your internal engine parts... with your turbo your oil likely sees 400 F !
got any pics of your rad???
I got on their web site did the online chat....what a bunch of dumb ass's...I asked them 6 times what the rads were made from brass..copper or aluminum...just keep side stepping the questions and then finally disconnected me... :-\
they wont be getting my business either way... 8)
Sorry about that, I should have mentioned their web chat is simply a computer script... I answer with things like GFY and the computer does not mind. Here's my rad installed:
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/the_arb/rad007.jpg)
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oh I was thinking you got a VW specific rad....but that looks like a van rad right?? just slightly bigger/thicker??
my brother in law owns a radiator shop....I was thinking I may just go look through his books and find one with the specs I need.
I was thinking about picking up a new Jeep Cherokee rad...they are short and long and would probably fit the vw front end well.?
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maybe my HG is slightly leaking?? :-X
I'm gonna put it back together and get the res sniffed for hydrocarbons...that will tell me if I have a small HG leak.
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a rad like this?
http://www.car-stuff.com/carparts/volkswagenjetta19881992nissensnss6526211.html
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a rad like this?
http://www.car-stuff.com/carparts/volkswagenjetta19881992nissensnss6526211.html
that's not a pic of a VW radiator...that pic is just a generic pic of a radiator??
after reading the dimensions I would say that's the same size as the one I have now....
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I know from experience the HO rads from the cherokee would be better for the dub. pre 91 has the open system like our VW's. I used to own 3 of them.
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You are a smart dude, probably know this, and if your brother in law has a rad shop he will tell you as well. That Al cools better than copper. Even if it is the same size dimmentionally if one rad has more fins, cores, it will cool better if made from the same material to another in comparison. So a newer style jeep rad that is the same size as a factory VW from the late 80 or early 90s will probably cool better.
I also have found to run 50/50 instead of 60/40 on my antifreeze setup. Seems like the more water the cooler they run. Water wetter absolutely rules as well. Every vehicle I have added it to has at LEAST a 20 degree F temp drop on the gauge.
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I know from experience the HO rads from the cherokee would be better for the dub. pre 91 has the open system like our VW's. I used to own 3 of them.
yeah I owned xj's aswell...thats what got me thinking of that system...I will have to see what I can find.
thanks 8)
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You are a smart dude, probably know this, and if your brother in law has a rad shop he will tell you as well. That Al cools better than copper. Even if it is the same size dimmentionally if one rad has more fins, cores, it will cool better if made from the same material to another in comparison. So a newer style jeep rad that is the same size as a factory VW from the late 80 or early 90s will probably cool better.
I also have found to run 50/50 instead of 60/40 on my antifreeze setup. Seems like the more water the cooler they run. Water wetter absolutely rules as well. Every vehicle I have added it to has at LEAST a 20 degree F temp drop on the gauge.
I know aluminum cools better...but a copper core that is 2 row or 2 pass would work waaaay better then this thin fined, 1 row OEM rad..
when I posted 60-40 I was meaning 60% water 40% coolant...water dissipates heat WAAAAY better then straight coolant..I would run an even thinner ratio if it was not so darn cold here in the winters...
I got all my parts and o-rings rounded up for the volvo oil cooler..I'm gonna install it tomarrow and the super cool Tstat and see what diffreance JUST those two make....if thats not enough I'm probaly gonna go shopping in my bother in laws radiator books..if I still can find some thing I like I will go with the $275 Griffin... :-\
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oh I was thinking you got a VW specific rad....but that looks like a van rad right?? just slightly bigger/thicker??
my brother in law owns a radiator shop....I was thinking I may just go look through his books and find one with the specs I need.
I was thinking about picking up a new Jeep Cherokee rad...they are short and long and would probably fit the vw front end well.?
Yes, its the stock Caravan rad.... I'd do to his shop and browse too. I would not have used the caravan rad if it was not soooo cheep. Volume does a lot for price. You're right that double rows cool better than single, in my case, this thicker single pass (double row of tubes) does more than enough cooling. Pulling that camper last summer proved it.
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Always had the exact problem you mention with my install as well. In the UK climate too.
I was running in a mk1 caddy with the caddy diesel rad (the biggest of all UK mk1 spec rads - yes, bigger than GTI)
My gas temps were fairly conservative.
I also had a IC in front of the rad which robbed a lot of flow.
I removed the stat which DID IMPROVE the coolant temps but it would still heat soak badly when thrashed for 5 mins or more.
I took the flaps off the fan cowling which improved things further
I bought an Nissens performance ally core GTI rad which offered 25% better cooling, it was better, but not a solution. Opening up more holes in the front panel or a twin fan setup would have been the next step had I not sold the truck.
I'm now building another mk1 using the caddy rad with a top fill end from a scirocco 1.5 rad, a remote expansion tank housed under the wing - I believe this will have no benefits over the original system apart from cosmetic ones.
The Honda VFR800 coolant tank.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/Headertank002.jpg)
I will site the intercooler better, cut both holes out of the front panel and probably convert to twin fans if need be.
I also will have a remote oil cooler instead of the original emulsifier unit.
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RED-80204/
(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/red-80204_w.jpg)
It works as claimed in everything I have ran it in.
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runs at 205* and if I stay on it for a long climb I could probably over heat it...although I'm really to scared to test the theory....3/4 up on the gauge is too warm for my liking..
so you tell me what else can be done???
I know some engines run warmer with headers and maybe that's a possibility with this as well??
205* isn't running all that hot- My Scirocco would run at least 3/4 up the gauge, it would go a bit higher on the highway- according to the VDO gauge that was in there, it would run at about 100* C, which is 212 F. VR6 engines will commonly hit 220 under normal driving, the 3rd fan stage doesn't come on until 230* :o Does your coolant temp warning light ever come on? If not, then it's not overheating.
I would imagine that if you railed it up a hill the temp would climb to a certain point and stop. Are you sure that the system is "burped" completely? You also mentioned the possibility of a blown head gasket, I'd get that checked out too.
Brendan
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205* isn't running all that hot- My Scirocco would run at least 3/4 up the gauge, it would go a bit higher on the highway- according to the VDO gauge that was in there, it would run at about 100* C, which is 212 F. VR6 engines will commonly hit 220 under normal driving, the 3rd fan stage doesn't come on until 230* :o Does your coolant temp warning light ever come on? If not, then it's not overheating.
I would imagine that if you railed it up a hill the temp would climb to a certain point and stop. Are you sure that the system is "burped" completely? You also mentioned the possibility of a blown head gasket, I'd get that checked out too.
Brendan
railing it up the hill under load may be a lot more then the cooling system can handle if it is substandard, damaged or clogged. The other little trick is using a ford taurus fan and a manual bypass, or a lower temp switch. If you can get the air moving sooner, you have a smaller chance of getting up in temp, as long as you have a good cooling system.
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205* isn't running all that hot- My Scirocco would run at least 3/4 up the gauge, it would go a bit higher on the highway- according to the VDO gauge that was in there, it would run at about 100* C, which is 212 F. VR6 engines will commonly hit 220 under normal driving, the 3rd fan stage doesn't come on until 230* :o Does your coolant temp warning light ever come on? If not, then it's not overheating.
I would imagine that if you railed it up a hill the temp would climb to a certain point and stop. Are you sure that the system is "burped" completely? You also mentioned the possibility of a blown head gasket, I'd get that checked out too.
Brendan
railing it up the hill under load may be a lot more then the cooling system can handle if it is substandard, damaged or clogged. The other little trick is using a ford taurus fan and a manual bypass, or a lower temp switch. If you can get the air moving sooner, you have a smaller chance of getting up in temp, as long as you have a good cooling system.
Fans are good, but I have yet to connect my fan to a functing switch. Even pulling the camper last summer at 70 mph with no fan running at all - I did not over heat. 210 was the highest I got and 200 being the norm. I did not calibrate my gauge - wish I had, but its got to be close.
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Mark,
Where did you get your water pump?
I'm tellin ya man, a rad like mine will take care of ya..
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Well.. I really can't say I had a "stock" OEM cooling system, but in some sort a way I had problems with high temperature, and I am about to replace the radiator/fan/intercooler for new ones, very different from the point-of-view of a standard/OEM VW cooling system.
The vehicle is not a VW, but a CJ-5 (see my signature), powered by a supercharged VW 1.9D 1Y engine (N/A). The radiator has the same used in Fiat Palio/Siena 1.7D (560mm x 322mm x 45mm), made from aluminium with plastic corners - apart from that, the system was the stock VW, plus an oil/water heat exchanger on the top of the oil filter.
As the car weight is a bit higher that stock VW vehicles (between 300 to 500kg heavier), the frontal air resistence is very big, and the tires are *huge* compared to any original VW car, the engine suffers a bit of heating when high throttle is needed, even if is just for a little while.
To solve the current limitations, I am changing the radiator for one made using the original 6cc Willys CJ-5 dimensions (421mm x 420mm x 64mm) made from copper alloy.
The new radiator has 1768,2 square centimeters or frontal area, and the older has 1803 square centimeters. It is a little smaller, but it covers front in a much better way. And besides being thicker, it has a better heat exchange - copper has TWICE the heat transfer of aluminium.
I am also changing the intercooler for one that has 2.5x the area of the older one, thus reducing a lot the temperature from intake when using full boost.
Last, but not least, I will replace the fan for one that covers all the back of the new radiator - which, for being more square-shaped, allows using a bigger and more powerful fan (between 40 to 42cm radius).
The oil exchanger (from a VW Santana 2.0 Mi) will be kept, as it makes a big difference in hot climates - 30oC is a bit common here, in the summer.
I had not tested the new system - actually, no intercooler is currently installed due to other modifications in course - but it probably will say goodbye to overheating.
This solution might not fit exactly in a stock VW car, but I think some ideas can be used to improve the cooling system in overboosted or very demanded engines - so here it is!
Cheers,
Leonardo
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Not to threadjack, but Leonardo, I'd love to see more pictures of your build. Any chance you could start a separate thread with some pictures of your rig? I had a newer Jeep TJ, but sold it quickly before it rusted away. :( I'd love to have a diesel-powered CJ-5 someday.
Thanks!
Brendan
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Not to threadjack, but Leonardo, I'd love to see more pictures of your build. Any chance you could start a separate thread with some pictures of your rig?
Brendan,
No problem! I created this thread:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=21978.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=21978.0)
There are other places with additional info:
http://leonardol.fotopic.net (http://leonardol.fotopic.net) (all pictures I had taken about the process until now)
http://www.4x4brasil.com.br/forum/showthread.php?t=44947 (http://www.4x4brasil.com.br/forum/showthread.php?t=44947) (original thread for the Jeep)
However, everything is written in brazilian portuguese in these two.
Cheers,
Leonardo
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Just to bring up a point that hasn't yet emerged;
quite often high coolant temps on a tuned TD are caused by less-than-optimal injection pump settings.
If there's just a little bit too much fuel throughout the rev range, your engine can easily get hot.
I've known many examples of cars that have had this problem, and finding the perfect pump setup
has helped.
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quite often high coolant temps on a tuned TD are caused by less-than-optimal injection pump settings.
If you have an 11mm pump, that is going to be 49% more plunger area. That is going to need more torque on the "wobble ramps" to drive it. That torque buries itself in the advance versus internal pressure mechanism of the pump. So, my guess is that there might be an effect on the dynamic timing of the pump. Higher injection pressures, or larger plunger diameters would in theory retard the injection timing, needing more internal pump pressure. Or not ;D. If the engine doesn't sound at all naily, and the EGT's seem high, some subtle adjustments of the pressure regulator with the precision tools required, Hammer and drift :P, might be where it is at.
What sort of MPG's are you getting at the moment?