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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: myke_w on September 18, 2009, 01:46:15 pm
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Well I'm finally running my AAZ head on a 1.6TD bottom end, but I'm having some tuning issues.
I'm running a Giles 1.6TD Super Pump, stock 1.6TD injectors with new DN0SD293 nozzles.
Seems great on power, EGTs stay low boost builds quickly and really flows --- BUT--- it's horribly noisy, like to the point where it sounds like marbles are literally bouncing around in the combustion chamber, and at idle and lows revs it stinks like raw fuel and smokes blueish.
It starts like crap even with long glows and wont idle until it's warm, even then it idles like crap. It rattles like a can of bolts until you really get on it, then it cleans up, doesn't smoke, and isn't noisy.
I'm running a 3 notch metal head gasket.
I was initially timed at .95 and it barely ran. I'm now timed at 1.05 and it's better, but not great.
Anybody got any feedback?
Should I give it more timing? Perhaps I'm missing something?
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What piston protrusion did you have? It would seem that the 3 notch with the added space of the 1.9L head might have that effect if the 3 notch was a liittle too big.
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Did you try rotating the pump while the engine is running and see where it sounds best?
What cam did you use with this?
1.6 or 1.9?
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What piston protrusion did you have? It would seem that the 3 notch with the added space of the 1.9L head might have that effect if the 3 notch was a liittle too big.
Protrusion was in the 2 notch range - I went big because I knew I'd be hammering the snot out of it... Didn't realize if could pose a problem other than on cold starts.
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Did you try rotating the pump while the engine is running and see where it sounds best?
What cam did you use with this?
1.6 or 1.9?
I didn't try that yet. Stock 1.9 AAZ cam, is that what you would have used.
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Did you try rotating the pump while the engine is running and see where it sounds best?
What cam did you use with this?
1.6 or 1.9?
I would also do this as it's the easiest thing to start with, although if you had to bump it to 1.05 to get it to run, i would think more it that's more HG/compression issue. Did the big marbling start after bumping up the timing ? because if so then the high timing is perhaps compensating for the low compression
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The marbling has always been there, more timing didn't really help that any. Adding timing has only helped with the way it starts and with how much it smokes when cold.
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So are you saying it quiets down only when you rev it or does it eventually quiet down after it warms up enough?
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it only quiets under heavy load, it can be fully warmed up and it will still be super noisy.
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it only quiets under heavy load, it can be fully warmed up and it will still be super noisy.
Myke you should PM zukgod1....he is real sharp with the hybrid head's.... 8)
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Did you try rotating the pump while the engine is running and see where it sounds best?
What cam did you use with this?
1.6 or 1.9?
I would also do this as it's the easiest thing to start with, although if you had to bump it to 1.05 to get it to run, i would think more it that's more HG/compression issue. Did the big marbling start after bumping up the timing ? because if so then the high timing is perhaps compensating for the low compression
I've found out that recomended timing points don't always work the best for all people and that you have to experiment like was already said. I do like to use the indicator though to know exactly where you are and where you were for comparison though. On my current 1.6 T/D with an N/A pump on it temporarily and fresh Giles rebuilt 155 bar injectors I had to go way past 1.0 m/m for it to run it's best and at 1.17 m/m it's fine and could probably go higher. Almost 9,000 on it now, 46 mpg. and runs cool and is easy to start and doesn't rattle at all, obviously it isn't hurting anything set where it is. I think a lot of this has to do with the actual opening pressure of the injectors which is unknown to most of us without our own pop testor or other variables when we switch things around. Just experiment on the advance some more and I bet you'll notice a big difference but make sure you know exactly where it is. I guess when I put the T/D pump back on I'll have to go through it all again ::) Like we were saying a while back, "what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander", and I still don't know what a gander even is ;D
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"what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander", and I still don't know what a gander even is ;D
LOL!! thanks a bunch. I plan on playing with it tomorrow when I'm in the shop again.
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I too, have the same engine setup. It sounds just as you had described and smokes when cold.
Even with a block heater its still ruff running. The timming was set to 1.07mm.
I thought I would just bump it up more and try that real quick and see if any differance. Yes, it did start up faster and seemed to smoke less. After that I checked the actual timming and it was at 1.19mm. Sure it could go more but it sounds so rattly. It runs great with plenty of power and smoke only when floored.
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Hey Myke, i have the same build as you and have similar issues.
well, HAD some, still have a couple.
The rough starts went away once it broke in. I had to advance the fuel timing significantly.
The compression is down since we're using a bigger head so it will always run a little rough for the first 30 seconds or so.
mine idles perfectly even when cold. I'm sure that's just the break in. I'm burning a little blue but that's because of my turbo.
Let it break in a bit and keep that timing advanced.
OR you have different problems..
i never sent my pump away. and im using stock NEW nozzles. mine is noisy too until it warms up. Doesn't really bother me too much. It's not deafening. I can't hear it inside the house unless the garage door is open.
ps. im using a 1.6 cam.
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OH and im using the correct thickness of HG. That made the BIGGEST difference ever. you have no idea...
a 1 notch for my protrusion.
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I too, have the same engine setup. It sounds just as you had described and smokes when cold.
Even with a block heater its still ruff running. The timming was set to 1.07mm.
I thought I would just bump it up more and try that real quick and see if any differance. Yes, it did start up faster and seemed to smoke less. After that I checked the actual timming and it was at 1.19mm. Sure it could go more but it sounds so rattly. It runs great with plenty of power and smoke only when floored.
Ditto buddy. i just read your post doh, its exactly what i just posted! hahahha
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it only quiets under heavy load, it can be fully warmed up and it will still be super noisy.
I'll post a video of mine driving. I think that would set a lot of questions straight.
It's difficult knowing what to expect when ... our engine is a relatively rare one.
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I also have same setup and on the usual 0.95 advance it would not start no matter what I done. I eventually swung pump by ear to a place that it will start, rattles a fair amount when cold but once warm it quitens right back down and runs great. I have NO IDEA what advance it is and don't care either.
It is hard to start cold as everyone says with my Franken, like in zero celcius it takes 2 LOOOONG glows and smokes a fair bit and misses slightly until warm. But always starts eventually.
It is worth it though for the fun, ;D my poor Skoda gearbox isn't liking it though and is starting to whine. >:(
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Any of you guys try running the 1.9 dual spring injector? One of the supposed benefits is that it helps quite the injection noise down. You will need 1.9td lines though.
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Yep I am running the 1.9 injectors, as above noisy when cold and better when warm. But I know it is pretty advanced.
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1.9 injection lines would also require 1.9 delivery valves as they are longer.
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It's that hard to start at 0C? Maybe I should rethink my build plans and just go for a full AAZ set-up. I'd like to use mine at -40C but I guess that's not a great environment for a frankenmotor :P.