VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Fisher on September 21, 2005, 12:22:57 pm
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Does anyone know if VW heads can be identified by the vw part numbers.
I bought what is supposed to be a TD Head 068 103 373E, can this be identified as a TD head?
068 103 373F ????? Thanks for any help.
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I think there are some subtle casting differences, but that part is no longer any good. I'm sure it has been superceeded. Is it solid or hydraulic lifter?
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It's solid lifter.
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check with these folks, but let use know the answer...
http://www.aluminumheads.com/
Telephone: 503-230-0852,
Or toll free: 1-800-978-HEAD (4323) - (Wayne or Chuck)
Can you see a dimple on the prechamber insert?, that is one indication of TD
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Chuck Tiller from Aluminum Heads in Portland said an E or F casting can be used for a TD.
Whatever that means!
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Yes I did but someone ahead of you asked that I let them know what the guy from the head shop says.
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Chuck Tiller from Aluminum Heads in Portland said an E or F casting can be used for a TD.
Whatever that means!
Regarding the F casting: do you know if it is a solid or a hydraulic lifter head? My TD has a D casting and it is hydraulic and I have found a rebuilt F casting head for $210 and would really like to pick it up for this price but I don't know if it will work on my engine.
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I have a solid lifter engine code "ME". Odd to me that VW also used ME for hydraulic n/a motors.
The head casting number is 068 103 373 M.
Anyone seen the M head before, and on what motor?
Andrew
I have a NA motor with that casting on the head... so I assume it's a Hyrdaulic and it has the vertical bump that my 91 ECO has.
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sethboy..
I just got a rebuilt head for my 1.6TD with a mechanical head. The casting has the same part number as yours... the "M". I did a bit of digging around in the archives and such and as best I can determine, the part number doesn't always appear to be a rock-solid indication of what the head came on.
The shop that supplied my rebuilt head claims that one of the only ways to tell between an NA head and a TD head is the "nipple(s)" right next to the part number by cylinder number one. They're about the size of a pencil eraser.
I'm not sure if that's true or not, but the guy said that if the head has one or more "nipples" (mine has two), then it's the TD head casting with the increased silica. Take that for what it's worth. I showed him a head that came off a 1.6 NA and he said that it was also a turbo head (it had one nipple).
So...why would that be? It could be as Jake and others have theorized that all "later" IDI diesel heads got the same alloys as time went on or possibly the head I had was a replacement. Who knows?
Does anyone have any documented proof of an NA head getting melted from turbo use? Do the NA heads warp prematurely or something when bolted to a TD?
I'm wondering how much the alloy matters. There's even some debate as to whether the TD head used different valves (the part no. is different at least). There's a post in the archives that says that they're not sodium filled.
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crap, now I don't know what headgasket to buy.. gues I could buy more than one but I was hoping to slap a AAZ 1.9l HG on the motor.
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sethboy..
I just got a rebuilt head for my 1.6TD with a mechanical head. The casting has the same part number as yours... the "M". I did a bit of digging around in the archives and such and as best I can determine, the part number doesn't always appear to be a rock-solid indication of what the head came on.
The shop that supplied my rebuilt head claims that one of the only ways to tell between an NA head and a TD head is the "nipple(s)" right next to the part number by cylinder number one. They're about the size of a pencil eraser.
I'm not sure if that's true or not, but the guy said that if the head has one or more "nipples" (mine has two), then it's the TD head casting with the increased silica. Take that for what it's worth. I showed him a head that came off a 1.6 NA and he said that it was also a turbo head (it had one nipple).
Just to update this from some data I got today from an experienced mechanic at J's VW here in Reno, NV: He said the small "nipples" cast into the head just indicate the crew at the factory that made the heads, it has nothing to do with the type of aluminum used in the casting. I ask him if it was like a "night shift" signature and he said yes.
I then asked him if there was a difference in the aluminum between the TD and N/A heads and he said he didn't think so.
sethboy..
Does anyone have any documented proof of an NA head getting melted from turbo use? Do the NA heads warp prematurely or something when bolted to a TD?
This would be the best proof and based on answers on various forums it sounds like there is no proof of an N/A head melting in a turbo application. This from Kantdrivefast in a post from July 2009: "Ive got a non turbo head on my turbo engine... no troubles so far."
I'm convinced the only difference between the N/A and TD heads are sodium filled exhaust valves and the different prechamber inserts that have the little dimple in them indicating they the the thicker walled insert. There are (were, for some reason they're not showing up now) some photos of a 1.9, 1.6 N/A and 1.6 TD prechambers here that show the differences:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=2329.30
The TD prechamber has the little dimple in it. These were posted by Malone and originally posted by 935racer.
Jack knows the cams are the same per and email I recently got from him.
I took two heads to the same shop today to see if they could sort out the "N" vs "M' letter at the end of the head part number and they looked it up on their parts system and there was no indication that one or the other was a turbo or non turbo head.
So....I'm going to put an "M" casting head on my TD with the TD inserts (30mm, thank you Jack) and the valves I got from Jack. I don't know if those new valves are sodium filled but he said they were for the TD.
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This is one that I asked when I was a noob and found out the casting letters and most markings mean pretty much nothing in VW. The casting number will tell you if you have a certain head, but the letter F, T, M etc at the end mean nothing for sure...sometimes it seems that certain numbers appear more often with turbo heads vs. N/A, but those letters have no concrete meaning.
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from what i understand the cams are different, td is a little bit better. i think later tds did not come with the sodium valves but that is speculation, and from what my parts guy told me they help to keep from getting burnt exhaust valves and reduce detonation in gas engines but they also cause the valve guide and seals to wear out faster since more heat is being transfered up the stem.
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Cams can be different but casting letters still do not tell you anything about the cams either.
FWIW you are not supposed to swap the hydro and mech cams. The ramp angles close faster on the mech and create a harmonic that can ruin the cam/valvetrain. Many do and worn cams maybe less aggressive than new. Even new the cam guy I spoke with said it can take more than 50,000 to 100,000 miles to start to show up...all depends on how aggressive the ramp angle is.
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F heads are used on NA and TD engines.
It's the standard 12mm headbolt head.
I think all N heads are turbo/mechanical.
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Nope, I had an N head on a factory N/A 84 rabbit...the letters mean nothing.
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It didn't have little dents on the prechambers?