VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Rabbit on Roids on May 28, 2009, 04:51:44 pm
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Ok, so i did the search, didnt really find what i was looking for.
has anyone used nitrous on one of these diesels?
no, not that you know someone who knew someone who did it.
i want to know all the particulars...
will it blow the head off right when you touch the button?
i know progressive controllers are the best setup to use for these engines, less of a "hit" to the engine.
how big of nozzles would someone start with for initial setup?
how much more fuel do we need to make use of the nitrous?
i know you want it to be pretty smokey under boost for nitrous to work good.
how is it on the turbo? not gonna make it fly apart will it?
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ive heard propane was a better gas to use.
could be wrong though.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy9vy0pduMA
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ive heard propane was a better gas to use.
could be wrong though.
i dont like propane. diesels arent supposed to breathe in their fuel. propane makes EGT's get hot.
i dont want hot exhaust..
nitrous should in theory cool the exhaust, since its a chemical intercooler, and it adds oxygen..
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ive heard propane was a better gas to use.
could be wrong though.
i dont like propane. diesels arent supposed to breathe in their fuel. propane makes EGT's get hot.
i dont want hot exhaust..
nitrous should in theory cool the exhaust, since its a chemical intercooler, and it adds oxygen..
The propane helps the diesel burn. Its much better than NOx for diesel. If you don't like the heat, bring some water to the kitchen ;-) That is water injection. This will give you more power too from the steam that is crated from the waste heat the water absorbs.
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Propane is not great for diesels..nx is way better.
Nx is the drug of of choice for 99% of diesel performance nowadays..
You will get much better results with nx
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but i want to know the particualrs..
where to put the nozzle?
can i run a 2 stage setup?
how much can i safely run?
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I have not played with it much....and none on vw's.
Some guys inject pre-intercooler and some inject right into the intake manifold.
Nozzle size would be something u need to play with.
I know it can be done really cheap with a couple Hobbs switch's..... But if I was gonna do it I would look at a progressive setup...
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thats what i was leaning towards. progressive control.
or a 2 stage setup.
have a tiny jet, and a bigger jet..
spray stage one off the line to spool the turbo.
then spray stage 2 when the engine is revved up enough.
or would that just not work?
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you can add a very slight amount of propane to an IDI. it's just the inherent nature of the engine. the pre-chamber gets extremely hot and can actually pre-ignite the propane. however since the DI engines do not have pre-chambers, they respond much better to propane injection.
i would say that you could add as much nitrous to a diesel engine as you want without adverse side effects. i guess there is a point where too much would kill the engine, but not blow it up. nitrous oxide on an N/A would be the equivalent to running a turbo with an intercooler IMO. running it in conjunction with a turbo and intercooler would make for a really quick ride. i can already envision the blown head gaskets from the cylinder pressures :o
just remember that nitrous oxide permits burning of additional fuel in the engine. propane assists the combustion of diesel fuel, but will definitely not give the type of performance boost you'll get with NO2.
you can put the nozzle right in the manifold as long as it is close to all 4 ports, as much as you can so that there is no bias. go a little upstream if you need, just to ensure equal NO2 distribution. putting the nozzle before the intercooler will ensure that it has a good mix, but will most likely warm the NO2 negating the cooling effect. a heat shield and some insulation around the intake mani might be a good idea as it is very close to the exhaust mani and will definitely get heat soak. a 2 stage setup would be ideal, but as stated, the progressive setup is much better, as it will not waste NO2 like the 2 stage setup will.
this electronic boost controller (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/d2power-electronic-Dual-stage-boost-controller-USA-SPL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ013QQitemZ230345418998QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)this link has everything you need for a progressive setup. minus the solenoid valve, unless it is capable of handing upward of 80 psi or so. (for safety reasons). i'm 99% sure it runs on a mosfet type controller that manages how the solenoid valve opens. it will open it at certain intervals depending on the knob position. the problem will be somehow tying that into the system, either by boost pressure (ideal), or pedal position, or a combination of the two. a linear potentiometer might be the ticket for a pedal actuated system... the NO2 will not spool the turbo without fuel.
or you could simply put a switch for full throttle.
wow this new forum really makes it difficult to write long posts... as i'm typing this iy reverts the slider bar midway so i can't see what im typing >:(
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From the FAQ: http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=3699.0
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ok, so has anyone ever heard of running an air line into your turbo manifold and spraying it with compressed air to help spool it. The A.F. Dick F350 land speed racer has a compressed air system to help spool the 4 huge sets of compound turbos (8 turbos and 4 superchargers) on it. it has a 16V92 built to the nuts. and they made a system that pretty much pressurizes the exhaust manifold. just straight air. nothing special. anyone think this would work well for our engines? it cant really be bad can it? once the turbo is spooled, just let off the air, then you get all your exhaust flow back. im sure if you sprayed it the whole time, you would probably create un necessary back pressure.
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ok, so has anyone ever heard of running an air line into your turbo manifold and spraying it with compressed air to help spool it. The A.F. Dick F350 land speed racer has a compressed air system to help spool the 4 huge sets of compound turbos (8 turbos and 4 superchargers) on it. it has a 16V92 built to the nuts. and they made a system that pretty much pressurizes the exhaust manifold. just straight air. nothing special. anyone think this would work well for our engines? it cant really be bad can it? once the turbo is spooled, just let off the air, then you get all your exhaust flow back. im sure if you sprayed it the whole time, you would probably create un necessary back pressure.
haha I got this funny vision of a VW rabbit with a cO2 tank in the back and a big airline plumbed under the hood. ;D
for a DD I dont think it's a good idea.
but for a race VW yeah might be worth a shot??? I would rather try a stupid big turbo tho...and lite it off with a shot of NX and then finish the run with a 2nd stage...
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thats what im saying. the guy i know used it to lite the huge turbos. it probably isnt that easy spooling 8 turbos on one engine... and im talking about using the compressed air right off the line, just to help spool the turbos. a bigger turbo would add more lag time.. i hate turbo lag.
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ok, so has anyone ever heard of running an air line into your turbo manifold and spraying it with compressed air to help spool it. The A.F. Dick F350 land speed racer has a compressed air system to help spool the 4 huge sets of compound turbos (8 turbos and 4 superchargers) on it. it has a 16V92 built to the nuts. and they made a system that pretty much pressurizes the exhaust manifold. just straight air. nothing special. anyone think this would work well for our engines? it cant really be bad can it? once the turbo is spooled, just let off the air, then you get all your exhaust flow back. im sure if you sprayed it the whole time, you would probably create un necessary back pressure.
Michael Zoche is trying this for a 2 stroke, radial diesel engine for aircraft use. They need the turbos spooled before start, or it will not run.
http://www.zoche.de/ He started coming to Oshkosh with a mockup engine more than 10 (15?) years back, saying it will be flying "next year". Don't know why there is nothing flying yet.
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Michael Zoche is trying this for a 2 stroke, radial diesel engine for aircraft use. They need the turbos spooled before start, or it will not run.
http://www.zoche.de/ He started coming to Oshkosh with a mockup engine more than 10 (15?) years back, saying it will be flying "next year". Don't know why there is nothing flying yet.
probably because they can't figure out how to make a secondary ignition system on it, or get it going in flight, if it stalls.
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thats what im saying. the guy i know used it to lite the huge turbos. it probably isnt that easy spooling 8 turbos on one engine... and im talking about using the compressed air right off the line, just to help spool the turbos. a bigger turbo would add more lag time.. i hate turbo lag.
do you honestly have that much lag with the GT17? i'd think that turbo would spool pretty damn quick... especially with your opened up exhaust system.
i'd personally like to see a magnetic bearing turbo. just takes a bit of juice to start it spooling ;) and the friction is very acceptable... probably less than using oil. any energy created by that friction could probably be fed right back in to reduce the losses? hmmm
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Michael Zoche is trying this for a 2 stroke, radial diesel engine for aircraft use. They need the turbos spooled before start, or it will not run.
http://www.zoche.de/ He started coming to Oshkosh with a mockup engine more than 10 (15?) years back, saying it will be flying "next year". Don't know why there is nothing flying yet.
probably because they can't figure out how to make a secondary ignition system on it, or get it going in flight, if it stalls.
thats the easy part... use quick start to get it going, and then switch over. some old Russian trucks were like that. start them on gasoline and switch over to diesel.
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thats what im saying. the guy i know used it to lite the huge turbos. it probably isnt that easy spooling 8 turbos on one engine... and im talking about using the compressed air right off the line, just to help spool the turbos. a bigger turbo would add more lag time.. i hate turbo lag.
do you honestly have that much lag with the GT17? i'd think that turbo would spool pretty damn quick... especially with your opened up exhaust system.
i'd personally like to see a magnetic bearing turbo. just takes a bit of juice to start it spooling ;) and the friction is very acceptable... probably less than using oil. any energy created by that friction could probably be fed right back in to reduce the losses? hmmm
yea, i got turbo lag. my turbo isnt very healthy. it only makes about 22 psi usually. it sucks now. it used to make 30+ psi before you could think when i first put the turbo on. but its not balanced anymore and the seals are screwed. and has anyone ever looked at how much a new center section is for one of these vnts? really expensive, compared to what i would be spending for a way better turbo, or even a different bigger vnt.
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thats what im saying. the guy i know used it to lite the huge turbos. it probably isnt that easy spooling 8 turbos on one engine... and im talking about using the compressed air right off the line, just to help spool the turbos. a bigger turbo would add more lag time.. i hate turbo lag.
do you honestly have that much lag with the GT17? i'd think that turbo would spool pretty damn quick... especially with your opened up exhaust system.
i'd personally like to see a magnetic bearing turbo. just takes a bit of juice to start it spooling ;) and the friction is very acceptable... probably less than using oil. any energy created by that friction could probably be fed right back in to reduce the losses? hmmm
yea, i got turbo lag. my turbo isnt very healthy. it only makes about 22 psi usually. it sucks now. it used to make 30+ psi before you could think when i first put the turbo on. but its not balanced anymore and the seals are screwed. and has anyone ever looked at how much a new center section is for one of these vnts? really expensive, compared to what i would be spending for a way better turbo, or even a different bigger vnt.
sounds like you need to try out one of those vnt20's on the diesel jeeps.
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i was looking at those. they have pretty ginormous exhaust housings tho.
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I have a Powershot 2000 propane kit installed on my Mercedes, and it adds approximately 20hp. It's progressively set to add propane relative to boost levels, so it's fairly efficient. You can really feel it when the boost/fuel kicks in. I also have a Zex nitrous kit that I've never installed. I've been hoping that it can be used to introduce additional "air" under WOT right off idle, so as to eliminate turbo lag.