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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: lord_verminaard on May 07, 2009, 07:34:28 am
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Ok, simple enough concept. I want to see what people are doing for oil drain/feed lines for turbos. Specifically, I know what the stock OEM stuff looks like, so I would rather see what people are doing when they have swapped turbos, added turbos to N/A, flipped manifolds, etc...
Of course, pictures would be good, and details like drilling the oil filter flange and what they tapped it to, and what sorts of line and sources for getting it. Also oil pan options, etc...I sort of have an idea how I'm going to do it, but after searching on here for a long time I didn't really find everything I was looking for. Thanks!
Brendan
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Until I replace my NA oil pan with the turbo pan I recently got, I'm running a hose arond to the front to "T" in with the vac pump return line.
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/the_arb/102_4549.jpg)
Here's the "T"
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/the_arb/mount004.jpg)
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i would *NOT* do an oil drain like that. does it flow down hill ALL THE WAY from the turbo? and if it is down hill, its still a REALLY long ways for the oil to travel. i would have took and poked a hole in the oil pan and put a bung in it. but thats just me. i always thought you wanted as short and straight of an oil drain as you could get off a turbo.my drain for my VNT is about 5" long. just a straight shot out the snail and down back into the pan.
Oil pans are not as hard to modify as people think. and i know you can weld, cause thats not a VW downpipe or flange :)
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i would *NOT* do an oil drain like that. does it flow down hill ALL THE WAY from the turbo? and if it is down hill, its still a REALLY long ways for the oil to travel. i would have took and poked a hole in the oil pan and put a bung in it. but thats just me. i always thought you wanted as short and straight of an oil drain as you could get off a turbo.my drain for my VNT is about 5" long. just a straight shot out the snail and down back into the pan.
Oil pans are not as hard to modify as people think. and i know you can weld, cause that's not a VW downpipe or flange :)
yeah I'm with you on this one....looping the drain up over the trans to the front of the engine is gonna cause some issues....specially on those cold Michigan mornings...oil turbo drains need to be straight down the whole way and shorter the better.
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i would *NOT* do an oil drain like that. does it flow down hill ALL THE WAY from the turbo? and if it is down hill, its still a REALLY long ways for the oil to travel. i would have took and poked a hole in the oil pan and put a bung in it. but thats just me. i always thought you wanted as short and straight of an oil drain as you could get off a turbo.my drain for my VNT is about 5" long. just a straight shot out the snail and down back into the pan.
Oil pans are not as hard to modify as people think. and i know you can weld, cause that's not a VW downpipe or flange :)
yeah I'm with you on this one....looping the drain up over the trans to the front of the engine is gonna cause some issues....specially on those cold Michigan mornings...oil turbo drains need to be straight down the whole way and shorter the better.
thats kinda what i thought, but im not exactly a turbo expert. ive only been working on these VW's for about 3 years now.
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oh and go steady with the orange gloop or you'll block an oilway
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Ok, anymore? Now that the forums are back up and all. :)
I heard someone using 5/16ths brake line for the feed.... Would this work if I drilled and tapped the filter flange? I would think there would be sealing problems since a brake line is flared. Or am I making it too difficult?
For a drain, I see you can get Aeroquip or similar bulkhead fittings in a -10AN, but damn, figure the cost of the hose, fitting, bulkhead nuts, and a fitting on the turbo-end and you've got over $35 in a drain hose. Surely there has to be an easier way....
Brendan
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Ok, anymore? Now that the forums are back up and all. :)
I heard someone using 5/16ths brake line for the feed.... Would this work if I drilled and tapped the filter flange? I would think there would be sealing problems since a brake line is flared. Or am I making it too difficult?
For a drain, I see you can get Aeroquip or similar bulkhead fittings in a -10AN, but damn, figure the cost of the hose, fitting, bulkhead nuts, and a fitting on the turbo-end and you've got over $35 in a drain hose. Surely there has to be an easier way....
Brendan
Brake lines are double flared so they can remain sealed with several thousand PSI of hydro pressure during a panic stop. It will not leak the 80 psi of oil pressure.
Fixing my over-heat / blown head gasket, I'm planning on going to the drain into the rear of the oil pan ;-)
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Brake lines are double flared so they can remain sealed with several thousand PSI of hydro pressure during a panic stop. It will not leak the 80 psi of oil pressure.
Fixing my over-heat / blown head gasket, I'm planning on going to the drain into the rear of the oil pan ;-)
Yeah I knew that about the brake lines but in order for the flares to seal properly, don't they need to be seated properly in a hole with the same angle as the flare?
Brendan
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yea, and they make fittings that have flares built into them. my adaptors go from 5/16ths brake line to 1/8th inch pipe thread. 8th inch pipe fittings, and whatever the metric size is thats really close, they are close enough to the same thread to seal. cause my low pressure turbo has metric threads, but theres SAE fittings in all the holes. oh yea, chevy header bolts are about the best turbo flange bolts i have yet to lay my hands on. maybe its just because they are made for exhaust? and that they are grade 8...
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I asked a local shop if they could take the end off of the stock k14 oil return line and weld it to a 1/2" braided hose for my T3 oil return.
This way I keep the existing oil pan without having to modify it
ID at the weld is 3/8" and the wall thickness about 1/16"
(http://smellslikefries.com/posts/t3new%20oil%20return.jpg)
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Vw oil feed pipes are 8mm of tube.
Anyone goong to add that the feed and return want to be as close to vertic as possible!
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best use the oil drain posted above - and the oil feed should be 8mm like the original
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Until I replace my NA oil pan with the turbo pan I recently got, I'm running a hose arond to the front to "T" in with the vac pump return line.
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/the_arb/102_4549.jpg)
Here's the "T"
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/the_arb/mount004.jpg)
That is not a pretty set up in my eyes.
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i wonder if that drain setup works? im really not trying to rip on the owner of that setup, but that is nothing i would ever put on my car. i would have just poked a hole in the n/a oil pan and welded a bung on there. it would have been so easy, and probably cost about the same as all the heater hose and brass fittings. plus, probably would have taken about the same time to make it.
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I am going with something like this for the return and probably stainless brake line for the feed.
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/2/1/6/4/5/webimg/169774845_o.jpg)
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oooooooooh... thats a sexy drain tube in the making.
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I also would advise against the long oil drain running into the vac return. Not a good situation going on there, IMO. I'm honestly surprised that actually works, after my oil drain experiences.
Here's what I made for my VNT15 on a 1.6. It is the third or fourth design, after putting up for a year with marginal oil drains I had made that either leaked, didn't flow well enough, or ran into the axle.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/kc0kbh/P1060275.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/kc0kbh/P1060276.jpg)
I tig welded a bung onto the oil pan for it. I have a brass 90* 3/4" pipe thread elbow, and a 3/4" pipe-3/4" hose male adapter in that elbow. The drain pipe I made from 1/2" electrical conduit, bent with the aid of a torch. There is about a 1/8-1/4" gap between the pipe and nipple, and they line up perfectly. I have a piece of oil resistant hose connecting the two, in the style of some of the dodge cummins trucks. It works excellent, and does not leak at all. I spent about 3 hours getting it bent perfectly, ha.
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i cut the top half off the 1.6 line right above the flex fitting. and i had the flange for the turbo drain. so i connected the drain pipe to the flange with some rubber oil hose and put a couple hose clamps on it. works great, has yet to leak.
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Feed line: An old paintball air line w/ quick disconnects on both ends, just because the fittings (1/8"-27) screwed into the VNT's side. I then just drilled/tapped the oil filter housing for the same threads.
Return line: Drilled a hole in the pan and welded a 3/4" coupling into it. Then used a 3/4" 90 degree fitting w/ a 3/4" barbed to accept a piece of hose w/ clamps. I used the original stainless braided line from the VNT, which I hosed clamped to the hose using the large bolt that would normaly screw into the TDI's block. Works well -no leaks. Don't have any good photos showing the return braided line though.
http://www.geistsystems.com/slides/IMG_1269.html
http://www.geistsystems.com/slides/IMG_1267.html
http://www.geistsystems.com/slides/IMG_1268.html
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the return line on my turbo was really short, and a right angle. it had a block oil drain.
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i wonder if that drain setup works? im really not trying to rip on the owner of that setup, but that is nothing i would ever put on my car. i would have just poked a hole in the n/a oil pan and welded a bung on there. it would have been so easy, and probably cost about the same as all the heater hose and brass fittings. plus, probably would have taken about the same time to make it.
No slam taken. :-D I agree it does not look the best, but it does work. I also had a couple other engineering challenges - the turbo I have has a larger oil drain flange than the stock return line, so I could not just bolt it up. Also, my CV shafts have a different length and maybe placement than in a VW, so I was not sure I'd have clearance. This weekend I will be looking at changing both of these. It could be I just keep using what is working.
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I heard someone using 5/16ths brake line for the feed
I have personal experiance with using brake line, not on my VW turbo, but on a different turbo build. The brake line was cheap, fittings were fairly easy
to find, and it sealed up well.
The problem was that, in my instance, vibration caused the line to crack, right at the base of the flare. I tried putting a loop in the line to deal with it, but it just extended its life a little bit. Lasted a few weeks, but would always shake itself apart, and never at a good time :P
Eventually I went to the local hydrolic shop, told them what I needed and they made up a braided line with ends that I requested. IIRC it was like $35. The brake line was cheap, but it was alot of screwing around, and when it broke the first time, I almost buggered a turbo. .
And if you are using rubber lines for your drain / return, make sure they are silicone / some kind of oil resistant stuff, or at least of good quality. I tried that too, and used cheap heater hose. The hose swelled up after a few weeks and slid off. I cought it before I had any significant loss of oil, but it made a hellova mess of the engine bay, and the hose was hard to replace.
Just my .02 :D
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I'm going to try NAPA P/N H178 1/2" fuel line hose. The stock steel drain line is 15mm (0.5905") so hopefully the 1/2" hose will stretch over it. I put a 3/8" spacer under my turbo to accommodate the bigger K26 compressor, so I have to lengthen the stock drain hose.
Anyone ever removed the flex section from the stock drain hose? If so, is there a barb in there?
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no barb, just a straight fitting. take a grinder with a cut off wheel and make score marks all the way around. then that gives the hose some traction so it stays put and doesnt pop off.
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Thanks!
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I'm going to try NAPA P/N H178 1/2" fuel line hose. The stock steel drain line is 15mm (0.5905") so hopefully the 1/2" hose will stretch over it. I put a 3/8" spacer under my turbo to accommodate the bigger K26 compressor, so I have to lengthen the stock drain hose.
Anyone ever removed the flex section from the stock drain hose? If so, is there a barb in there?
Half inch is 13 mm
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I'm going with 5/16 brake line, the local napa had the adapters to get down to 1/8 pipe.
I'll find a way to support it so hopefully it won't crack, after all, IP lines are steal and as long as the clamps are in place they last forever.
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Half inch is 13 mm
Yes it is.
Actually, .5" is 12.7mm
My options for large diameter fuel line (oil resistant) are 1/2" or 5/8". So the choice is stretch the half inch over the 15mm (.5905") or try to calmp down the 5/8" (.625").
Sucks, don't it....
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too bad they didn't make 9/16" for you. I know that there is 9/16" hydraulic hose but I'm not sure how well it would work for you.
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Pulled the stock flex section off:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0497.jpg)
And, to my complete amazement, the 5/8" hose fit snugly over the ends! They must have increased the size to 16mm. I suppose there is no 15mm high temp hose in Europe?
Quick mock up to see how things line up:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0499.jpg)
And in goes the 5/8" fuel line. I'll have to search for some of that braided steel stuff in 5/8" as it sits mighty close to the exhaust manifold.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0500.jpg)
The OEM hose that came off appeared to be plastic. Teflon perhaps?
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Why not use a piece of header heat wrap? You still need to shield the line from the turbo, no matter what the material, and also adding a small in line oil cooler will help too.
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Good ideas everyone, keep 'em coming.
Brendan
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PTFE Hose:
http://www.paragonperformance.com/Medium%20Pressure%20Hose.HTML
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as long as his oil seals don't blow out that setup works perfect.
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PTFE Hose and ferrules:
Thank you for the interest in our products. Yes we do. We are located in Southern California in the City of Crestline.
Regards,
Don Roy
909-338-1616
http://www.paragonperformance.com
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Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: SS braided PTFE hose and ferrules
Greetings
Do you stock ferrules for swaging SS braided PTFE hose?
Where are you located?
Find somebody that has the swaging equipment and you can put it back the way it was.
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as long as his oil seals don't blow out that setup works perfect.
Which oil seals?
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as long as his oil seals don't blow out that setup works perfect.
Which oil seals?
are you referring to the seals in the turbo intake?
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What about feed? I need to make something and don't even know what threads/connection I need. I don't even have a stock line since this is from ground up for me on the Turbo engine.
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Find somebody that has the swaging equipment and you can put it back the way it was.
Your local hydraulic hose shop will have everything needed to make the line… For the supply line, I used 5/16" brake line. The fitting at the oil cooler threaded correctly to this, and the other end I used the last 7" of a stock turbo supply line and flared the end to connect to a brake flare union.
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That is my problem. I don't have any stock pieces from the turbo...I just have a turbo and I have to figure everything out rather quickly. I am not worried about the hose, I can run anything almost there what I am looking for is the ends. I need to know what ends to use on the flange and turbo.
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What turbo are you talking about? The feed on my vnt is metric but it's so close to 1/8th pipe that the brass threads aren't deformed at all. 1/8th pipe goes into the filter flange just fine to.
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I have a 1.6L with the KKK K24 I believe.
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Yup, I'm in the same boat with the T3. I don't have any of the drain/feed lines so I have to make it all up myself. :)
Brendan
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I will make you a deal :D If I get the thing figured out first I will post my findings on here. If you do please do the same. THEN we can petition for this to be put in the faq so we don't have to do it again. I am going for the thread pitch gauges now.
Looks like the port on the feed side of the turbo is a 1.5 thread pitch...if it is metric which I am assuming. But it looks WAY bigger than 10mm which would be the standard for a 1.5, so it is either something else or a metric pipe thread???
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Pics and explination comming soon for the KKK K24 and stock oil filter flange. Going to get pics now.
There are two threads for the fittings on each of the filter flange and the turbo. They are both the same.
This is M14-1.5
(http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/68/l_f1bb20205e09464b96007bfb3aa3e139.jpg)
This is M12-1.5
(http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/77/l_655ee6906a4d43bdb56c708ef8cf25a2.jpg)
This thread is M14-1.5
(http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/101/l_3e787156cce94224ab4b21557293a686.jpg)
This is M12-1.5
(http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/67/l_0811ca12ebe344e497bdf3aec63aee3d.jpg)
Also what I have found is that the oil pan drain thread is 7/8-14 thread. I have been told that this is also called JIC 14 or AN-14. I can't use alot of the oil pan info since I am making mine from scratch since the oil pan had holes in it. Also the "other" hole in the filter flange is M10-1.0 thread I believe.
I now feel useful as I think this is a good contribution finally...unlike what I normally post :D
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OK...this should be faq material I am just saying ;)
If the garrett and kkk are mostly the same and guys have switched turbos then I am guessing this info would hold true for both.
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You sure about those fitting sizes.
It's very rare to have M spec threads on pressure lines
Far more likely to have NPT National Pipe Tapered or BSP British Standard Pipe or BSPT (tapered) and the AN Army Navy you mention
The PT fittings just have a threaded end, which is what seals. The AN fittings have a 37 degree conical end which is what makes the seal.
BPST and NPT are very similar, but they differ in two ways, the angle the threads are cut in are off by 5 degrees, also BPST has rounded thread peaks, while NPT has flat peaks. The O.D. and thread pitch are the same.
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Yeah I spent over an hour at the hydrualic hose shop gathering pieces. So either they have the wrong pieces in the wrong boxes and the thread guages marked wrong or I am correct. We had thread pitch gauges, fittings, and the parts going onto them to get it all to fit. The only one I am somewhat not for sure on is the oil pan drain inlet that is stock. I didn't spend as much time with that because I can't use that, but I do know that the JIC 7/8-14 thread will thread right on all the way, it just wouldn't seal because it doesn't have the flare. Maybe it is metric too since everything else is? It is definately a straight non tapered thread though.
Bottom line, trust me on what is pictured. I should have the lines finished by 10th I will post them in my thread.
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Wow, interesting. So the hole on the oil filter flange for the oil temp sensor, is a M10.1? Interesting, I figured it would be the same.
I guess it makes sense that the fittings are M sizes, since they are using copper washers to seal with, common on Volkswagens.
Thanks for your research, that helps. I need to dig my turbo out of the pile of crap that I threw it in here soon to rebuild it, and check the fitting sizes on it. I don't think it had any fittings on it though, just the holes for them. :P
Brendan
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I found a adapter on ebay with a AN-8 flare on one side ( TURBO OIL FLANGE DRAIN )
ITEM 380129020749
Iam going to have a local aircraft hose shop make a -8 flare hose assy to a male pipe for my k03 turbo
The hose will be teflon high working temp with a intergral firesleeve ( silicone ) 15 minutes at 2500 flame is the milspec
1500 working pressur, both fittings will be swager on and pressure tested at 3000 psi on a water test bench..
Hose is AeroQuip AE466-8
You can also get fire-sleev from aircraft spruce by the ft, It is sold in red or black and slips on the hose for more heat protection.
I mfg aircraft silicone seals for various aircarft mfg's and had a aircraft hose shop before this for six years
Gee-Bee Aeroproducts: 17 years and going
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I am replacing these ...
(http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/67/l_0811ca12ebe344e497bdf3aec63aee3d.jpg)
with these m10 to jic8 and a braided hose...
(http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/74/l_2346c8a2cf08415d82e2bfb6c5cbd656.jpg)
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Great information. I hope the T3's are the same. :P
Brendan
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Saurkraut, how did you remove the crimped ends of the flexible section so neatly? Grinding wheel, dremel tool? This looks like the best idea yet but I'd hate to bugger up the metal like with sloppy grinding.
Mine's leaking and I'm not sure why VW had to make this pipe more complicated than it needs to be. Stainless steel braided line with crimped ends seems like overkill for an oil drain. I looked at some 300Ds, appeared to use plain steel tubing all the way down. I'm planning to replace the flexible section with a product called Multi-duty hose, sold by NAPA (Gates hose). It's red, and has good resistance to pressure, heat, fuel and oil. It's what you could use for oil coolers, etc. I'm also going to wrap the hose with some type of insulation.
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Saurkraut, how did you remove the crimped ends of the flexible section so neatly? Grinding wheel, dremel tool? This looks like the best idea yet but I'd hate to bugger up the metal like with sloppy grinding.
I used a bench grinder and ground down the swage sleeve only.
I'm using NAPA hose too. 5/8" black fuel/oil compatable
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The oil drain line is the bane of my existence. And my driveway's. I've got an AN -10 braided line coming in that mail. I'm going to get the pan fitting cut and weld a NPT bung to accept an NPT/AN adapter fitting. I orderd a couple different flanges to try for the turbo fitting. If those don't work, I will cut the stock flange and weld an AN fitting. I'll post some pics when it's done.
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i wonder why everyone returns the oil to the pan and not drill/tap the block like the AAZ/TDI's?
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Both are good ideas.
BTW, if the black fuel hose doesn't hold up to the hot oil (and proximity to the turbo) try the NAPA multi-duty hose. It has better resistance to heat and pressure. The walls of this hose are thicker, more heavy-duty and the material is different. Make sure it is red and says "Multi-Duty hose." You may not find it at some smaller stores. But, the hose you are using could last for years, I'm not sure how hot it gets.
Why drill the block when you don't really need to? I'm also considering using a n/a oil pan (mine has some dents) and welding the bung onto it to accept a hose nipple.
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Both are good ideas.
BTW, if the black fuel hose doesn't hold up to the hot oil (and proximity to the turbo) try the NAPA multi-duty hose. It has better resistance to heat and pressure. The walls of this hose are thicker, more heavy-duty and the material is different. Make sure it is red and says "Multi-Duty hose." You may not find it at some smaller stores. But, the hose you are using could last for years, I'm not sure how hot it gets.
Why drill the block when you don't really need to? I'm also considering using a n/a oil pan (mine has some dents) and welding the bung onto it to accept a hose nipple.
drill & tap is a lot easier than buying a bung and welding it on ;)
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The main reason I didn't drill the block was that I didn't know my oil pan had holes in it. I had already painted the block and didn't want to mess with it and I figured I didn't want to mess with the structure of the block with my battery drill. If it wasn't painted and I had it on my dad's mill I probably would have done it, but I know how cast is and would hate to find a bad spot in it just for an oil return. Also, when running a baffle gasket I don't know how well the oil would drain. I had thought of running a 90 if I drilled the block so the oil would run straight down and not on the crank...I sometimes have too much time to think, I am sure drilling would be just fine.
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drill & tap is a lot easier than buying a bung and welding it on ;)
It's a lot harder/more expensive to repair if you screw it up. I also think drilling and welding stamped sheet metal is much easier than trying to drill and tap a precise hole in the block while laying under the car. Rather than drilling cast iron with progressively larger drill bits, in tight spaces between the firewall and block, I could use 1 hole saw on the oil pan then quickly weld it up. I probably have the appropriate NPT bung laying around in my workshop.
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drill & tap is a lot easier than buying a bung and welding it on ;)
It's a lot harder/more expensive to repair if you screw it up. I also think drilling and welding stamped sheet metal is much easier than trying to drill and tap a precise hole in the block while laying under the car. Rather than drilling cast iron with progressively larger drill bits, in tight spaces between the firewall and block, I could use 1 hole saw on the oil pan then quickly weld it up. I probably have the appropriate NPT bung laying around in my workshop.
What does it matter? the oil still goes back in the oil pan.. who cares if people drain it in the pan or into the block. im going for the pan, they are way easier to replace than a block.
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I'm not sure why the caps and the "WTF" and the "friggen". Not enough sleep? Too much coffee?
It is my understanding that having the end of the drain below the oil level in the sump can create situations where any positive crank case pressure can prevent the turbo from draining properly. It is similar to having a valley in the return line. If the positive pressure is greater than the weight of the oil in the line it can back up right into the turbo.
a very good example of why i believe the block return is far superior. ;D
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I'm not sure why the caps and the "WTF" and the "friggen". Not enough sleep? Too much coffee?
It is my understanding that having the end of the drain below the oil level in the sump can create situations where any positive crank case pressure can prevent the turbo from draining properly. It is similar to having a valley in the return line. If the positive pressure is greater than the weight of the oil in the line it can back up right into the turbo.
I did a test with the pan off and with the full amount of oil it comes right to the top at the back of the pan, so you'd have to be low on oil for a pan drain to come in above the oil level.
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Did you take in account for the filter's oil capacity? Just wondering.
Like I said if my block hadn't been painted I would have drilled and tapped it. Or if my oil pan didn't have holes in it I would have used it like normal. I like the idea of the block drain, but I would like to know more about the structure of the block before cutting it all up...
The point is I figured out what oil lines are from VW on stock turbo. Where it drains really doesn't matter to me at this point. If you need to make a feed or return line for stock fittings look above I am positive it is correct.
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Did you take in account for the filter's oil capacity? Just wondering.
Like I said if my block hadn't been painted I would have drilled and tapped it. Or if my oil pan didn't have holes in it I would have used it like normal. I like the idea of the block drain, but I would like to know more about the structure of the block before cutting it all up...
The point is I figured out what oil lines are from VW on stock turbo. Where it drains really doesn't matter to me at this point. If you need to make a feed or return line for stock fittings look above I am positive it is correct.
;D Nope, but I did notice that as it gets fuller the level doesn't change as much per amount added due to the shape of the pan. On the dipstick I think the 3/4 inch full/add area is 1 quart. I think the filter holds about .5 quart(?) so you'd have 4.2q in the pan and that would hardly affect the level.
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The filter will hold about 1 quart, but you have to send it through with pressure or pour it in and wait a long time and pour more. The engine and any lines will keep some as well, not enough to worry about though.
Still it is basically all metric thread that you need to fit up to stock lines/turbo.
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Well, the oil drain is only important when the car is running, and I'd bet that there is at least a quart or more of oil in circulation at any given time, that combined with the oil filter is probably enough oil out of the pan to ensure the drain is out of the oil level. VW did it stock that way for a while so I'm sure they did their homework. :P
Brendan
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my 84 1.6 has the drain in the pan. my 83 2.0 has the oil drain on the block just barely above the pan. vw used both styles, so i dont think they really thought either design was better.
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Couldn't you also position the turbo such that the oil drains to the pan at less of an angle, and in effect, more slowly?
I know this is an iffy engineering problem for different turbo setups.. I remember seeing a bottom mount project on a BMW with an oil return that actually used a drain plug fitting [at the bottom of the pan].. Of course oil wasn't draining back so vertically.
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I finally got my custom oil drain mounted. For the turbo end, the stock flange was cut and a -6 AN fitting was brazed on. The oil pan fitting was cut off and a bung and 90 degree -6 AN fitting was brazed onto the pan itself. The line is stainless braided oil line from a turbo shop. I made a little bracket to hold the line and keep it from rubbing on the passenger drive axle.
(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/3229/3261/33071630022_large.jpg)
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anyone have a pic of a K14 oil return? Preferably with a fitting threaded onto the stock return pipe (eco diesel K14 I believe). I'm trying to run a return line from that 18mm threaded pipe to the return in the pan (pan is a stock rabbit TD pan, 22mm fitting I think, original turbo was a T3 if that helps). I pieced one together for a test run, but it's temporary, so I'm looking for ideas or sources for parts that actually mate correctly to these fittings...
Also, if any one has just removed that pipe and used a hose directly from the turbo, a pic and some details of that would be much appreciated too.
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There is a k14 return line for sale on ebay germany Item : 350265851005
female swivel to banjo fitting on the end ( block )
GB
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Thanks, Gee bee.
Anyone have a pic of a custom line that they have built, and details on where you got the fittings? one with a female swivel (18mm) on one end and the larger female swivel (22mm) on the other?
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GO TO DISCOUNTHYDRALULICHOSE.COM
GET A METRIC TO AN-8 ADAPTER FOR YOUR TURBO HARDLINE RETURN
FOR YOUR BLOCK :ADAPTER 90 DEGREE 14MM TO -8 FLARED ADAPTER
MEASURE THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE TWO FITTINGS, ADD 1/2 FOR GROWTH
PURCHASE A FLARE TO FLARE -8 ( 1/2 ) TEFLON HOSE ASSY
YOU CAN ADD FIREJACKET ( SLEEVE )FOR PROTECTION
Slip on or get the hose style below.
Aeroquip AE466 ( intergal Firesleeve ) -65 to 450
Firesleeve meets 2500 flame test for 15 minutes
I had a Aircraft hose shop at Long beach Airport for years !
Gee-Bee
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thanks. Yeah, I thought about using an adapter to AN, but can not find anything that properly mates to the 18mm male end of the drain tube.
There are plenty of fittings available that will thread into the turbo itself, and adapt to an AN-8, but I'm worried that those fittings and hose will be too close, or hitting, the manifold.
This is what I was referring to...this could thread into the turbo (remove the stock drain tube) but I think the hole could melt on the manifold, so I was curious if anyone has used a return line like that.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=4209 (http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=4209)
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You are correct, I wouldnt run a hose/line to the fitting on the turbo, too much heat there, that's why they have the hardline, same with the ko3 assy.
Are you sure the male fitting on the turbo pipe is 18 mm?
if so use a 9022F-08-18 on the turbo line
block assy 9069-08-XX
discounthydralichose.com
P.S. My new KO3 hose assy came with two new copper washers and A new banjo bolt,I installed this and a new turbo oil feed with my new KO4/KO3 Hybrid
G/B/
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Thanks, Gee bee.
Anyone have a pic of a custom line that they have built, and details on where you got the fittings? one with a female swivel (18mm) on one end and the larger female swivel (22mm) on the other?
Here's my custom end at the NA pan - much earlier in my thread you'll find the turbo's end - also custom.
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=15633.330 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=15633.330)
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Thanks for the replies.
There are plenty of ways to do it...and those links helped.
I did some junkyard shopping and may have found a real good solution, with the proper swivel fitting. A Mercedes 300D power steering line seems to have the correct fitting! I won't know for sure until I get home tonight, but from pulling the part at lunch and looking at it, it definitely looks like it'll work. I'll let everyone know if it does work...