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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: catlin_cava on April 04, 2009, 02:03:17 pm
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What is the best twin turbo set up? One turbo boosting the other turbo...or 1 turbo for 2 cylinders? :twisted: we get some bad ideas when beer is involved
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for the set up of it?
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im gonna take and add a 300TD turbo behind my vnt. andy 2 said it should work alright. i just gotta get a motor to hold up to that much boost. and some way to get enough fuel into the engine. and some way to keep the head from shooting off and going through my hood. :lol:
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im gonna take and add a 300TD turbo behind my vnt. andy 2 said it should work alright. i just gotta get a motor to hold up to that much boost. and some way to get enough fuel into the engine. and some way to keep the head from shooting off and going through my hood. :lol:
300D.
-both 3K and Garrett/Air research made turbos for them. The 3K (KKK) is more desirable. Not very big turbo's at all. If your using a vnt to spool on the low-end, why not go a little bigger? 60-1 anyone?
("T" does not refer to turbo in Mercedes speak - "T" indicates "touring" - a wagon body)
-Both turbos are internally gated, 8psi If I remember correctly. More CFM, but not more boost. Wastegate actuators are normally VAC CONTROLLED in Mercedes, a pressure activated unit will have to be installed also.
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What is the best twin turbo set up? One turbo boosting the other turbo...or 1 turbo for 2 cylinders? :twisted: we get some bad ideas when beer is involved
Two turbos each serving two cylinders has no advantage over one turbo serving all four cylinders unless it simplifies plumbing, e.g. H-4 motor where bringing all the pipes to one turbo would be cumbersome.
It is look at a subaru pipe everywhere.
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im gonna take and add a 300TD turbo behind my vnt. andy 2 said it should work alright. i just gotta get a motor to hold up to that much boost. and some way to get enough fuel into the engine. and some way to keep the head from shooting off and going through my hood. :lol:
300D.
-both 3K and Garrett/Air research made turbos for them. The 3K (KKK) is more desirable. Not very big turbo's at all. If your using a vnt to spool on the low-end, why not go a little bigger? 60-1 anyone?
("T" does not refer to turbo in Mercedes speak - "T" indicates "touring" - a wagon body)
-Both turbos are internally gated, 8psi If I remember correctly. More CFM, but not more boost. Wastegate actuators are normally VAC CONTROLLED in Mercedes, a pressure activated unit will have to be installed also.
only reason im not going with a bigger VNT, is because im VERY limited on funds. i still have less than 500 dollars into my car. the turbo was free. i just want to make due with what i have. ans when i said 300td, i just meant a 300 series merc with a turbo motor. i wasnt going into sub models, like TD or SD or anything like that. and now that i have an intercooler installed, i should be good to go for more boost. now i just have to fix the oil pan.. and the head gasket..
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What is the best twin turbo set up? One turbo boosting the other turbo...or 1 turbo for 2 cylinders? :twisted: we get some bad ideas when beer is involved
Two turbos each serving two cylinders has no advantage over one turbo serving all four cylinders unless it simplifies plumbing, e.g. H-4 motor where bringing all the pipes to one turbo would be cumbersome.
isn't there an advantage with pulsing if done properly? i thought thats why twin turbos was popular on v6's for a while like the 300zx and 3000gt
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What is the best twin turbo set up? One turbo boosting the other turbo...or 1 turbo for 2 cylinders? :twisted: we get some bad ideas when beer is involved
Two turbos each serving two cylinders has no advantage over one turbo serving all four cylinders unless it simplifies plumbing, e.g. H-4 motor where bringing all the pipes to one turbo would be cumbersome.
isn't there an advantage with pulsing if done properly? i thought thats why twin turbos was popular on v6's for a while like the 300zx and 3000gt
but dont you have to have a single turbo with a split exhaust housing to pulse your turbo? and have it so that it alternates the pulses evenly between the 2 sides? thats how i always understood a pulse setup..
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thought i'd bring this back up...
I'm considering running a compound set up on my aaz, my T3 on starts to spool at about 2800 RPM and i just thought that by using a smaller turbo, either a K03 or a K14 I can take advantage of early spool-up as well as higher psi from the T3. what are the disadvantages to this type of set-up vs the gains?
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With an MBC set at the same boost level, Your T3 will be fully spooled by 2800, possibly even sooner.
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I was gonna say i'm making 18-19 psi by 2800
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yeah but i'd like to hit 15-18 psi by1800 and 30psi by 2800 ;D
ok, maybe a bit optimistic but 10-12 psi by 1800 & 25 psi by 2800
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Yeah i'd loikre more boost earlier and even more up top. My concern is the small turbo isn't going to flow enough up top haven't figured it out yet just got trial and error i guess. watch drive pressure vs boost pressures
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from the research i've done and from what i understand ::) the setup would be as such... oh and I don't have to worry too much about space 'cus this will be mounted in my Projekt Fox http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=16098.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=16098.0)
hot side:custom exhaust mani to small turbo to custom pipe to big turbo to exhaust
buisness side: air filter to small turbo ( wastegete set to 15 psi ) to big turbo ( set to 28 psi ) to intake manifold.
does this sound right??
are there any other considerations i haven't thought of??
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You can forget about running an internal wastegate on the small turbo. You'll have way too much restriction leading to high emp's and egt's. It'll blow the headgasket for sure. You'll need need an external wastegate to bypass the small turbine at high flow.
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crap... you beat me to it, thats what i was going to say too,. but at high speeds you need a big enough wastegate that when it opens it basically cuts the high pressure turbo out of the equasion pretty much, lots less restriction from it.
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ok so the first turbo gets an external wastegate but the big one is ok as a stock t3 ( internal wg ) right?
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yea, it would be fine as long as the drive pressure never gets too high.
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try and find a copy of "Turbochargers" by HPBOOKS , this book is awesome! it has a section on how to calculate flows for compound setups, all the way to 200 psi manifold pressure!
I picked up a copy for 7 bucks at a used book store in langford..... best 7 dollars i ever spent!
The author of this book really stresses proper matching of turbos to motors, especially in compound setups.
Definitely a good read.
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try and find a copy of "Turbochargers" by HPBOOKS , this book is awesome! it has a section on how to calculate flows for compound setups, all the way to 200 psi manifold pressure!
I picked up a copy for 7 bucks at a used book store in langford..... best 7 dollars i ever spent!
The author of this book really stresses proper matching of turbos to motors, especially in compound setups.
Definitely a good read.
cool 8) could you do me a favor and post the ISBN # for that book so i can order one? you will find it above the bar code usually
thanks
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the isbn is 0-89586-135-6. author is hugh macinnes.
this website talks about this very book (its the one pictured on the left) plus has tons of great info and turbo maps:
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbotech.html (http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbotech.html)
The chapter in "Turbochargers" on tractor pulling has some crazy stuff about three stage turbo chargers with water/meth injection. Each stages pressure ratio is 2.7, so 2.7x2.7x2.7x14.7=289.34 psia or 274psig!!! Boost increases exponentially!
2 stages , having a pressure ratio of 2.36 each, would result in a manifold pressure of 67 psig,[(14.7x2.36x2.36)-14.7)] and an astronomical egt without proper inter/after cooling. (these are rough calculations, not accounting for various innefficencys, mechanical or otherwise.)
I'd love to see a three stage turbo setup on a Vw diesel.... I wonder how long one would last at 275 psi boost.. maybe if it redlined at 10,000
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just rooting thru the net and found this... prety cool
http://www.worldcarfans.com/104041410781/-opel-twin-turbo-revolutionizes-diesel-engine-technology (http://www.worldcarfans.com/104041410781/-opel-twin-turbo-revolutionizes-diesel-engine-technology)
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Anything is possible with money, of course. Me personally, if I were to do a twin turbo setup, I would use two small T25 or smaller same turbos on a 4 cylinder Accord.
Now, that would be unique.
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but, were on a VW forum here, not some retarded honda forum. saying Accord or Civic, is just about the same as saying F*** on here...
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besides the only japanese car worth working on is a Previa!
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is just about the same as saying F*** on here...
BAM!!!!!!
Rabbit, I completely forgot to buzz ya on my trip up there. Crap!! Next time..