VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: subsonic on April 02, 2009, 09:39:32 pm
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I was browsing around vortex and found this company:
http://www.intengineering.com/
They sell a bunch of vw stuff. They also sell connecting rods that seam to be reasonably priced. I did not see anything listed for our 1.6td or 1.9td so I wrote them a letter.
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: con rods
I noticed you do not have any rods for the 1.6td or the 1.9TD (IDI not TDI). We are stuck holding off big boost(20-30psi) until 2500-3000rpm because the stock rods can't take the power down low. Lots of guys would be running bigger turbo's or mechanical control vnt turbo's(vnt1749 and up) but fear wrecking their engines due to a bent rod. The only option I had was pay something like 600+ or improve oem with a polish and shotpeen. I still need them balanced. I had to buy arp bolts, new bushings, resize etc. By the time all is said and done I am up to what you are charging for your gasser rods. Lots of us are ready to push into the 150-200hp mark. Thats more then the new 2009 jetta 2.0TDI, but spending 6-700 just on con-rods kills a lot of builds before they get started. I think you should come over to the vw gtd index and get a feeler for interest. Here is a link:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/index.php
You put out a con-rod that will fit the 1.6 and 1.9 and hold up to 23:1 compression with 20+psi of boost and sell it for the same price as your other rods and you will have cornered the market. If you do, give me a heads up so I can sell my rods before your good ones show up :}
Be prepared for some good high end technical questions and discusssion, the guys love that stuff.
Look forward to seeing you and your product on the forum.
Jim
I received this e-mail back today:
Jim,
We have TDi rods in the works, but not for the 1.6td or 1.9TD. They likely will be around $400 for the set. Do you know what the physical dimensions are of the 1.6 and 1.9 TD rods?
Pete
For the 1.6td,
I know the pin end is 24.0mm ,
and the Big End Bore Dia. is 50.6mm
What is the length?
Is it expressed as center to center?
I have found different measurements. I am not sure if they are all of the same distance.
I have seen 159mm center to center.
I think MJF listed something like 136.
Does anyone know for sure? How about the 1.9?
I may just ask pete if he wants one of each rods mailed to him so he can check them out.
Jim
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1,6 24/136/50,6
1,9NA 24/150/50,6
1,9TD 26/144/50,6
Pin/center to center/big end
1,9TDI rods will fit to AAZ
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Thanks! I sent the information in. I will let you know what I hear.
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1,6 24/136/50,6
1,9NA 24/150/50,6
1,9TD 26/144/50,6
Pin/center to center/big end
1,9TDI rods will fit to AAZ
How about a rod: 24/142,4/50,6
This would allow 1.5 crank and rods to be used with 1.6TD pistons in a 1.6TD block. :D
Or take 1.6mm/0.063" off of the top of the 1.6TD pistons :?:
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1,6 24/136/50,6
1,9NA 24/150/50,6
1,9TD 26/144/50,6
Pin/center to center/big end
1,9TDI rods will fit to AAZ
How about a rod: 24/142,4/50,6
This would allow 1.5 crank and rods to be used with 1.6TD pistons in a 1.6TD block. :D
Or take 1.6mm/0.063" off of the top of the 1.6TD pistons :?:
YES! i want some of those 24/142.4/50.6 rods. and especially if they are only 400 freakin dollars...
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I had a chat with integrated engineering, and told them exactly what you did.
they told me that they had no plans of doing diesel rods because the market was too small.
if you can convince them to make some, I will be all over it for $400!
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that sucks.. they get our hopes up, just to crush them.
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1,6 24/136/50,6
1,9NA 24/150/50,6
1,9TD 26/144/50,6
Pin/center to center/big end
1,9TDI rods will fit to AAZ
I didn't know that AAZ had a bigger pin than 1.6, might I need special rods to put the AAZ pistons on a 1.6 length rod?
or is there enough meat in the 1.6 bushing to just get it reamed out to fit the AAZ piston?
anyone know if there is a pin to crown difference between 1.6 and AAZ?
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that sucks.. they get our hopes up, just to crush them.
well, I talked to them a couple months ago, so maybe they have changed their minds?
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i wonder if they would do a limited run production if we could get a group buy together? i know i would buy at least one set, maybe some aaz rods too.
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I will check my e-mail tonight when I get home around 10pm and see if there has been a reply.
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I am glad you are getting farther with your conversation with them than I did.
I will definitely be buying a set or two(I might be building a pair of matching motors, one to turbo and one to supercharge)
not to be too off topic, but does anyone know if there is a difference in pin to crown dimensions of 1.6 and AAZ pistons?
and if there is enough meat in the pin bushing to ream a 1.6 rod to accept a AAZ piston? or am I going to have to get custom rods to do that?
-Owen
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No reply as of Friday night. I will post up when I do get a response.
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i'd buy a set
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i'd buy a set
x2. Running the stock rods is the only thing that's making me a bit gun shy about how my build is shaping up so far. :evil:
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Not to confuse the issue, but are those big end dimensions with, or without the bearings installed? Those dimensions listed are for the crank journal diameter right? BTW, I'd be interested in a set for a 2.0 TD (5 cyl.), which I assume are the same as 1.6 TD.
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Those are without bearing. Itīs sometimes confusing becouse some stores tell journal diameter instead big end diameter :roll:
2,0TD is same as 1,6.
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the 2.0TD is just a 1.6TD with an extra cylinder :wink: same pistons, rings, rods, everything AFAIK. but other than that there is also quite a bit of differences between the two.
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crap, right after I "reconditioned" the stock rods...
I'd be down for a set.
could my arp bolts still be used?
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the new rods will come with ARP hardware, at least all of IEngineerings other rods do...
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I hope this works out. It will be just in time for my 1.6td rebuild. I defiantly see this as a real possibility. With the "economy" how it is I know a lot of company are looking at possible ways to make money, that wouldn't have been worth there time before. At least were I work is. May be we should start a pole or something to show just how many people would be interested in some performance rods.
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im sure there isnt enough interest in 1.5 or 1.6 rods. our motors are by all rights obsolete. they havent been produced in how many years? and how many of us really want rods? 10 or 20 maybe? thats definently not enough demand to justify making molds to forge less than 50 sets of rods. thats probably why they wont just make some.
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right, but times are tough, especially in the specialty market. If we could get a group buy together, and find out how many we would need to buy so that it's "worth there time". Those who want them could end up with some performance rods.
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well since the 1.9 and tdi use the same rod, there is a much larger group to buy these as the tdi crowd are really active in modding their motors, and the 1.6 rod is identical to the G60 rod except for the pin diameter, so all they need to do is design two pin bushings to fit the same rod to accommodate the 20 and 22mm pins and they will be able to sell lots of those too(as there are few choices for G60 rods reasonably priced too)
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So I made contact today about the con rods. I was told that they would like to know what the max torque is that the 1.6 rod will see. In the craziest, nastiest hard core engine.
So start asking around and searching for the Max Torque a 1.6TD has put down. Dyno slip numbers would be great if you can get them.
I was told they need this to help design the rods needed strength.
I was told mid summer for production, and mabey/possible earlier with a large enough group buy, 25+ but that is not for certain yet.
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I tried contacting this place about shipping and stuff but I haven't got any response.
http://cgi.ebay.com/VW-Golf-Turbo-Diesel-1-6L-Connecting-Rods-Conrod-Pleuel_W0QQitemZ170111884888QQihZ007QQcategoryZ72205QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
I might be interested in a group buy around summertime.
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Hell yeah :D . If i had better rods there would be no reason for me to not build a crazy pump and turbo at work :twisted: I'd deffinitly be shooting for 250hp instead.
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talk to them about a group buy i'm all about getting a set
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So I made contact today about the con rods. I was told that they would like to know what the max torque is that the 1.6 rod will see. In the craziest, nastiest hard core engine.
So start asking around and searching for the Max Torque a 1.6TD has put down. Dyno slip numbers would be great if you can get them.
I was told they need this to help design the rods needed strength.
I was told mid summer for production, and mabey/possible earlier with a large enough group buy, 25+ but that is not for certain yet.
a little math says that a motor making 200HP @ 3000RPM will make 350 ft-lbs of torque.
nice big numbers, a little out of reach, perfect for making rods that are bombproof.
any one know what HP numbers they want to make and at what rpm?
the math is very simple.
-Owen
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i think strength will probably effect price
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true, I think we should find out what most people want and then have them make rods just beyond that, to ensure that they wont fail if we push it a little.
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so if we say that people are looking for 200HP, which isnt too crazy out of the ballpark, and we say they want it @ 5000RPM, which again is within the reasonable range for a hot motor, the motor will be making right around 200 ft-lbs of torque. nothing too crazy, so lets say 250 ft-lbs to be super safe.
anyone have any thoughts?
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I think 250 ft/lb would be a bit on the low side. With a VNT or quick spooling turbo, there could be much more torque down low. I think 300-350 ft/lb would be more pratical.
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I need conrods way over 300hv and 550-600nm torgue.
1.9na dimension, 150/24/50,6
two (big) turbos,high flow head,14mm rotorhead..pictures later :twisted:
earlier motor push 420nm torgue,3/4 trotle...
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The guy said he wanted to know the highest tq numbers. He really wanted cyl pressure but since that is pretty hard to get he said he could go with tq. He wants to make sure they dont fail, so he said to find the highest known tq number someone has put down on these rods/ or on custom rods in this application. It would also be helpful to know the rpm range the tq number was achieved at. I am guessing the guys in Finland may be at the top of the heap on this one.
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I think 250-300 ft. lbs should be sufficient for us 1.6 folk. Shouldn't it? I can see the 1.9 crowd wanting more strength...
Maybe it would be a good idea to start a list of who is interested. That might serve to get the ball rolling a bit quicker. I was kind of hoping to have my project engine together by mid summer, not be smack dab in the middle of building it. :twisted:
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I need conrods way over 300hv and 550-600nm torgue.
1.9na dimension, 150/24/50,6
two (big) turbos,high flow head,14mm rotorhead..pictures later :twisted:
earlier motor push 420nm torgue,3/4 trotle...
Nice to see you chime in Aki-76. What is the most torque you have been able to get with the stock connecting rods? Are most of your big Torque numbers from engines with 1.6 or 1.9 connecting rods? How much torque do you think the 4350 1.6 connecting rods should be able to take?
As an additional note, I was told that tdi rods will be available soon. I think those are very close to the 1.9td rods specs, yes?
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earlier motor is stock 1.9td ( aaz ) conrods , and put ~380nm torgue 3600-5500rpm..peak is 420nm 5300rpm..
first dyno run,with 1.6bar and very small diesel feed
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q302/jedi8986/sekalaiset/87780.jpg
(wheel power)
second run whit 2.2 bar litle more diesel+head gasget failure..
http://www.munkuvat.org/kuvat/93072.jpeg
(wheel power)
third (hard) run,2.6-2.65bar and full throttle.maybe 260hv and 450-470nm
This run i donīt have dynosheet
this is stock conrods,only fully balanced ( my self )
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I am looking for pictures of bent / damaged connecting rods for the 1.6 and 1.9td that was due to high power output. If you have the spec's on how it bent that is even better. I am forwarding this onto the tech for his review.
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Hell yeah :D . If i had better rods there would be no reason for me to not build a crazy pump and turbo at work :twisted: I'd deffinitly be shooting for 250hp instead.
good luck keeping your head on..
and did they say anything about a 1.5 rod? i really like my 1.5 motor, but if all i can get rods for is a 1.6, then it might be time to build a fire breathing 1.6TD.
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1.6 rods should need to withstand at least 450-500 Nm, because 400 Nm has been broken so many times already.
So I'd say 370 lb-ft for 1.6 rods and 450 lb-ft for 1.9 rods.
Otherways they just wouldn't be a really big upgrade.
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As long as you have a good flowing intake manifold and only 1 fairly big non vnt turbo you should have no issues with the stock rods.I actually think that the cyl head is the limiting factor with high cylinder pressure not the rods :wink: .
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well, I am working on a supercharged motor and a girdle to hold the head down better, I really want to bend some rods!
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they also sell topline OEM replacement rods/cranks
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10 sets of rods? i think us off the wall build guys are kinda screwed, since most people are running 1.6 engines.
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10 sets of rods? i think us off the wall build guys are kinda screwed, since most people are running 1.6 engines.
as if building a 1.6 isnt obscure enough...
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Pauter has 1.6 IDI rods on their catalog...
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The price is very high though.........
I will attempt to contact the people from this link again and find out where they are with the planned production of these rods.
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your on about pete from intengineering.com hes a cool guy that knows his stuff and his rods are very very good for price.
i have a set in my corrado 20v and that has 487bhp i know of lots of other people using these rods .
we need some concrete numbers on people who are interested in buying a set of rods ?
im in for a set ukcaddy 1.6td rod set
and i know a fair few people would want them in uk ?
just one quick thing what about these any one tried them or chinese poo poo ?
VW Golf Turbo Diesel 1.6L Connecting Rods Conrod Pleuel item number
item number 170111884888
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I tried contacting them about shipping but got no response.
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I tried contacting them about shipping but got no response.
who do you mean ebay or intengineering ??
if you mean the ebay 1.6td h-beam rods advert i tried to, did not hear anything.
i looked back though the guys feedback and contact people who had left good feedback on these rods but did not hear from them either !
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I tried calling Intengineering on Friday hoping that having a local member call might help persuade them, but Pete wasn't available. Does anybody know what the latest is on these rods? I'm getting close to needing them.
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i want a set of these if they ever get forged from anything besides unobtanium.
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Do you think these rods could be used with a special bushing to adapt the 24mm wrist pin hole in the piston to the 22mm small end and pin of the rod?http://www.performanceenginecomponents.com/Products/Product.asp?id=250399 (http://www.performanceenginecomponents.com/Products/Product.asp?id=250399)
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looks like you would have to bore the small end out. it doesnt look big enough to accept a 24mm bushing. could be wrong, but i just dunno if it can be bored.
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I was thinking the bushing would be fitted to the piston itself. The piston hole would be adapted to 22mm, and then this rod and pin could be used like they are. Boring out the small end on the rod looks like it could be made to work too. Unfortunately, these are about $200/ea. and I need 5.
BTW, I called Integrated Engineering today and talked to Pete. He said that they're doing TDI rods right now. They'll be available in about a month. They are considering doing G60 and custom rods toward the end of the summer. Not planning on doing any 1.6 rods at this point however. He said they would do the 1.6 rods but they wouldn't do less that 50 SETS. Yes, 200 rods minimum according to Pete. At this point, kind of looks like we're SOL.
I didn't mean to hijack this thread for a group buy, or step on anyones toes. These guys are somewhat local, and I need rods ASAP, so I thought I'd give them a call to see what was up.
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man 50 sets would be a big group buy, i am curious about the bushing idea, i mean those 8vs can take some serious power.
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G60 rods use the same big end and center to center distance as ours, correct? I wonder if we could convince Pete to make a dual purpose rod.
If the rods were made to accept a 24mm wrist pin bushing you could always have undersized bushings made to get them down to 22mm. Then all you would need to do is specify which bushing size you want. I'm sure he would have no troubles selling 50 sets in this fashion. :-\