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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 12:53:55 pm

Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 12:53:55 pm: Is ther any way to time the injector pump without using a dial indicator? I do not have access to one and I can't buy one for a while.
Title: timing
Post by: the caveman on March 29, 2009, 01:43:00 pm: If you just need to put one back on, there are marks at the top of the pump housing flange and on the bracket that will give you a good baseline. After that you could move it back and forth a bit to where it runs well without too much noise.
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 02:21:08 pm: Okay that's what I thought so towards the engine is advance and retard is away? What about increments, like an eighth of an inch in whatever direction or more?
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 03:29:23 pm: Quote from: "jettabrendan"
Okay that's what I thought so towards the engine is advance and retard is away? What about increments, like an eighth of an inch in whatever direction or more?

You'd be surprised at how much an 1/8" moves the dial.. It would be good to hone in.. then use like 1/16" movements to where she runs best. as long as it sounds good, and the power is ok you should be pretty close to stock and if not, advanced a little will help with power :) and retarded will help with emissions :) Win/Win
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 05:14:53 pm: well if i can get the damn thing running i can time it. it just cranks and puffs out smoke.
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 05:15:58 pm: Quote from: "jettabrendan"
well if i can get the damn thing running i can time it. it just cranks and puffs out smoke.

hmm.. that shows it is getting fuel. sounds like Gp's not coming on for long enough or at all

is it puffing white smoke?
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 05:17:33 pm: yeah sure is, and i dont have the exhaust donut hooked up so its puffing out of the engine bay lol.
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 05:18:25 pm: well, if your battery is good enough you could try and keep cranking in 15 second bursts until it fires. Work up cyl temps by cranking.
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 05:18:41 pm: its still cold out and i dont think the block heater works, i filled it with coolant and have it plugged in right now to see. I dont think the plugs are working at all or else it would have fired, it isnt even firing at all.
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 05:19:37 pm: i have been doing that since i got it together 5 days ago lol
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 05:21:48 pm: ***e.. this could be a different animal :(

does it feel like its going to catch at all?
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 05:29:36 pm: nope, it just cranks. it ran before i changed the head gasket, i personally think that theres something wrong with the glow plugs cause my other jetta starts up no prob and it has a few bad plugs. the yellow led stays lit for like a minute.
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 05:31:37 pm: how well do you know these cars? you did a Hg so you must kno alot lol.

Do you know what i mean when I say to manually jump the GP buss wire with a jumper cable hooked up to the + battery terminal?

Try that, if it starts then, it may be your GP controller. does your LED come on now????
Title: timing
Post by: Rabbit TD on March 29, 2009, 05:32:30 pm: If you are sure it's timed right mechanicly then I would try advancing like you said a little at a time till it starts but wait till it completely warms up after driving before you do your final pump timing. I had to take my T/D pump off because of leaks and put the N/A one back on but I have rebuilt 155 injectors on it so I went from 1.0 to 1.10 and then to 1.15 today with the gauge and it's right now just like the old N/A motor when it was at 1.0. Just don't go over 1/8-1/4 at a time and don't try to get it real smooth on a cold or even cool motor and they cool off fast.
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 05:32:43 pm: done it, i allready changed my gp relay too from another car, didnt make a difference.
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 05:35:20 pm: is there not some sort of sensor that dictates how long the plugs glow somewhere in the cooling system? i remember reading about it on vortex a while back. Reason being is that i just filled the cooling system today..
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 05:35:20 pm: crap.. either all four of your plugs are TOAST or its a fuel problem... its puffing so the fuel solenoid is getting power.. are there any bubbles in the fuel lines?

OMG! you had the head off.. did u take the pump off too?? did you remove fuel lines!? maybe the pump just needs to be primed??

I dunno shoving them out there :)

If you jumped the plugs manually the timer would be by-passed..
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 05:37:33 pm: i got my gf to turn the key when i was under the hood just to hear if the cutoff solenoid was working and i can hear it clicking. i removed the glow plugs when i had the head off just to check because my warrenty info says they were changed in 98 so i was a little bit concerned when i seen that. there is over 100 000 km since the plugs were changed. they werent burnt or anything to i didnt bother getting new ones.
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 05:39:51 pm: be right back im gunna go try again, cross your fingers...
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 05:40:19 pm: Quote from: "jettabrendan"
i got my gf to turn the key when i was under the hood just to hear if the cutoff solenoid was working and i can hear it clicking. i removed the glow plugs when i had the head off just to check because my warrenty info says they were changed in 98 so i was a little bit concerned when i seen that. there is over 100 000 km since the plugs were changed. they werent burnt or anything to i didnt bother getting new ones.

So your getting fuel, and you jumped the plugs and it still didn't go. You may have 4 dead plugs :(

FINGERS CROSSED
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 06:01:10 pm: absolutely nothing happened, just cranked and cranked. i hope to god i dont have low compression.. it only has 279k its the lowest mileage jetta out of the 3 i have.
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 06:02:38 pm: CRAP.. hmm well.. it ran fine before right?

you never did answer me about the pump and fuel filter.. are they full? and is the pump primed?

it should run.. thats a piss off. what temps where you are?
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 06:07:31 pm: oh sorry lol, i didnt take off the pump but i did disconnect the main line to bypass the fuel filter with a bottle filled with diesel, and the injector lines so i can remove the head. plus the fuel in the tank is old. i did what i thought was priming the pump by cranking it and getting someone to crack the injector tops untill fuel sprays out and close them.
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 06:12:24 pm: ok so lets see here, you have primed the pump, the solenoid works, you are getting fuel in to the engine..

what is left? it must be wayy out of time...

according to Vince's guide.. the engine will be hard to start if it is way out either way. I guess you need to play with the pump position some. to eliminate the timing... then next would be to pull Gp's and see if they are heating up. :( so much extra work for something so simple eh? sucks
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 06:20:13 pm: yeah i read his instructions too, so much clearer than the bentley. i never did like following instructions in a manual, they jump all over the place. so yeah but its strange because when i got home today the first thing i did was re check tdc. i locked the cam, lined up the pump lines, tossed the belt back on. i think its -15 or 20 out today so its cold enough to prevent a diesel from starting with 4 possible junked glow plugs..
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 06:21:57 pm: definitely Vince is the man. His guides are idiot proof lol.

well, i hope all it is is 4 bad plugs.. and you dont gotta rip it down again. I tried my best.. but i got nothing left lol

goodluck
Title: timing
Post by: Rabbit TD on March 29, 2009, 06:22:00 pm: Quote from: "8v-of-fury"
ok so lets see here, you have primed the pump, the solenoid works, you are getting fuel in to the engine..

what is left? it must be wayy out of time...

according to Vince's guide.. the engine will be hard to start if it is way out either way. I guess you need to play with the pump position some. to eliminate the timing... then next would be to pull Gp's and see if they are heating up. :( so much extra work for something so simple eh? sucks

I'd be doing a compression check to see what you have to work with. Everything else can be perfect but with low compression and being cold it's even worse. I'm betting you have lower than necessary compression on top of timing problems as well. But you need to know what compression is first, you just had the head off didn't you?
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 06:26:32 pm: yeah thanks! i dont think its low compression.. it has "low" mileage for a diesel and it wasnt driven hard. i have all the maintenance records from the day it was bought till the day it was taken off the road. It has to be timing obviously and the glow plugs plus bad fuel. i had it going when i first got it, even took it for a short drive.
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 06:39:51 pm: i also put in a 2 notcher instead of the 3 that was in there.
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 06:41:18 pm: 2 notch is thicker than a 3 right? that would lower your compression.. not sure by how much.. but maybe enough?????
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 06:43:37 pm: nope 2 is thinner, 1 being thinnest 3 thickest.
Title: timing
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 29, 2009, 06:50:25 pm: for some asinine reason i thought 1 was thickest :P

Ok so you've boosted compression a bit.. aw hell i dunno.

it has to be timing! thats all thats left
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 08:58:51 pm: i did everything except check piston prutrusion. seeing as people tell me that 95% come with 2 notchers i thought i had a pretty good chance that it was the right one. The head and gasket were replaced before and they might have just put in a 3 notch just in case. Would bad injectors cause it to do what its doing? not even a small hiccup?
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 09:33:45 pm: yup, i lined everything up before i took it apart so it was all good when i put it back. I did push the advance handle in too, but what happens if it is left out?
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 09:41:37 pm: ohh okay, so im still very stumped as to what the no start problem is. Say the pump was moved when i had the head off, i did remove the bolts that hold on the pump for some reason... I could have moved it and not even realized, then bolted her back together with the pump way off?
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 29, 2009, 09:54:47 pm: i had to make my own with a 303 british casing wrapped in elec tape. it worked but prob not good enough. i seen pics of the tool and they look different as to what fits in my engine. i had to squish the end of the casing for it to fit in, its a flat slot. the tools i see were just pins.
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 30, 2009, 07:51:22 pm: what size socket do i need to take out the injectors?
Title: timing
Post by: subsonic on March 30, 2009, 08:04:49 pm: Quote from: "libbybapa"
Did you use the iming pin in the pump sprocket when installing the timing belt?

Quote from: "jettabrendan"
i had to make my own with a 303 british casing wrapped in elec tape. it worked but prob not good enough. i seen pics of the tool and they look different as to what fits in my engine. i had to squish the end of the casing for it to fit in, its a flat slot. the tools i see were just pins.

Have you ever lived in North or NW Maine Brendan? The .303 case wrapped in electric tape is just beautiful man. Classic. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 30, 2009, 08:22:50 pm: no but i am from Cape Breton, close enough :) i figured it would be easy to fashion up a tool and it was the first thing i loked at haha
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on March 31, 2009, 08:53:16 am: Anyone know the size of the socket to take out the injectors? I'm in the store right now.
Title: timing
Post by: jettabrendan on April 01, 2009, 08:40:09 am: okay i got the injectors out, 2 of them had DRY pre chambers.. the nozzles were dirty, i took them apart cleaned the hell outta them. While i had them out i also checked to see if the glow plugs were working and they werent. This would probbly slve my no start problem.. BUT my other jetta starts without glow plugs, just real rough. So its probably also my timing thats out to lunch.