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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: camboscams on February 13, 2009, 11:42:46 am

Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: camboscams on February 13, 2009, 11:42:46 am
Well on this 1.6l na turbo build i seem to have hit a small snag. I got a td injection pump for my engine without a pulley. At first i intended to use the pulley that came on the n/a but after attempting to install the ip i found that the pulley was to small.

I measured the td ip shaft and found the larger end of the shaft, right at the end of the keyway, to be around ~19.5 mm and the smaller end, at the end of the keyway, to be ~16.3 mm.

If anyone has one of this size, i am very willing to buy it from you!!!!....If i cant get one from here i'll have to have my 1.6l na pulley machined ($$$$$$)


Also one other question (at least to justify putting this in the IDI section rather then the for sale/needed)

On the front of the IP (where the injection lines go) the top fitting is for the boost pressure, the middle one is a breather, and the bottem one is for a ? fuel return ?....                 Thanks, Cambo

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt251/camboscams/02-13-09_1214.jpg)
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: ilikevwdiesel on February 13, 2009, 11:52:37 am
you're not doing something right all 1.6 IDI diesels take the same IP sprocket, and yes you have the openings in the pump described correctly. Are you sure that's a VW pump? Post more pics from other angles.
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: camboscams on February 13, 2009, 11:57:39 am
Quote
you're not doing something right all 1.6 IDI diesels take the same IP sprocket


Maybe i'm not... But i do know for a fact, that i have four 1.6l NA pulleys and one 1.5l Pulley and they are are all too small for this Injection Pump.
Title: Re: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: Vincent Waldon on February 13, 2009, 11:59:54 am
Quote from: "camboscams"
and the bottem one is


...normally capped.

That's the port for the dial indicator... normally covered with a brass bolt and sealed with a copper ring.

On the odd AAZ pump there's a sensor that goes there instead, but thats a very rare situation.
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: camboscams on February 13, 2009, 12:07:46 pm
sorry the bottem one refers to the one directly above the fuel-shut-off solanoid
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: jtanguay on February 13, 2009, 12:29:36 pm
you shouldn't leave the pump open like that... it's amazing at how quickly the inside of the pump will rust, and give you lots of grief.  but yes, 1.6N/A and TD pumps should be exactly the same, except the LDA on top.  oh and maybe pump head...

this pump sounds like an mTDI pump, having the 19.5mm shaft size...
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: camboscams on February 13, 2009, 12:33:55 pm
I was just getting ready to hook it up to the engine, thats why exposed...

So what does this mean? If the shaft is bigger then the 1.6l pulleys i have what do i do? How can i ID the pump, and see what i have then?
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: jtanguay on February 13, 2009, 12:38:56 pm
Quote from: "camboscams"
I was just getting ready to hook it up to the engine, thats why exposed...


ok thats good then.

it might be a good idea for you to take more pictures of the pump.  and also any serial numbers that you can find on it.  some people on this forum can actually look up those part numbers and find which vehicle it came from, etc.  and some others can actually ID the pump from pictures alone... (guru's)
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: truckinwagen on February 13, 2009, 12:44:39 pm
I have run into the same problem with my pulley not fitting my pump(my pump is from a cummins)

I sourced a pulley with the right size hub from Prothe, but the offset is wrong, so I am having a buddy at a machine shop turn the two pulleys into one with the right size hub and the right offset.

if there is a simpler option that would be good to know about.
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: camboscams on February 13, 2009, 01:10:24 pm
Cummins, 4BT?

I'll get some more pictures of it on monday, maybe sooner. but here are the numbers...

written as they apper

NR0460494122
VR     R     125
01165V78329
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: truckinwagen on February 13, 2009, 02:09:03 pm
thats what I have been told.

supposedly the adjustable hub/gear set from a newer TDI will work, but the hubs are impossible to find even though the gears are readily available.

I hope you figure this out
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: burn_your_money on February 13, 2009, 02:18:27 pm
From what I can see it looks like your pump is off a Escort, Fiesta or Orion from 84-89. Engine codes LTA, LTB and LTC. Only 40 kW though so it's way low on power. Although, 0 460 494 122 is the PN for a NA pump, not TD so either there's a typo or someone added a LDA to the pump

Call Giles on monday or send him an email. I know we have a stack of pulleys, not sure if they are for sale or not though. As mentioned though, the offset may not be proper.
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: Quantum TD on February 13, 2009, 02:18:58 pm
Looks like you got a 4BT Cummins pump. Not a bad thing, except for the shaft diameter. An early TDI sprocket might work (1Z or AHU), but I"m not sure. I think those later ones used a 19mm input shaft. Maybe someone else can chime in.

If you find you can't use that pump, I'm sure there are plenty of people here willing to buy it off you, or trade you a 1.6TD pump with the correct sprocket.
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: camboscams on February 13, 2009, 04:02:10 pm
So there is some contradicting going on, sorry i can't get more pictures right now.

Tyler, i did't know  Escort, Fiesta or Orion came in a diesel model...
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: burn_your_money on February 14, 2009, 10:20:17 am
Quote from: "camboscams"

Tyler, i did't know  Escort, Fiesta or Orion came in a diesel model...


I didn't either. I'm just reading what the Bosch program told me.

Looking at your pump, I can see the fast idle option on the LDA. Since you don't have a cold start advance lever (based on the rear mounting bracket) there is nothing to actuate the fast idle. I'm pretty sure that your LDA is not original.
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: camboscams on February 14, 2009, 10:38:33 am
Well my thinking was if i set the timing around 1.05mm then the cold start would not function anyway. So i might try to adapt the fast idle to the factory cold start knob. At least to get me some cold starting help! :lol:
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: camboscams on February 14, 2009, 11:20:02 am
This particular pump has the solonoid on the front to retard the timing at an idle for reducing the NOx fumes...(At least thats my understanding of it.) Now other people have just wired that to the shut-off solonoid to run at normal timing all the time.  What if a put a mircoswitch that disconnected it from 12volts at an idle, to potentially reduce the "marbels in a coffee can factor :lol: " at an idle....If i were to do this, how much would it retard it?

also do i need to feed this solonoid 12volts when i set the timing on this engine?


Cambo
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: burn_your_money on February 15, 2009, 06:25:08 am
You have to be careful with that solenoid. It could be a cold start mechanism that prevents the pressure regulator from opening. It'll increase the housing pressure, which will advance the timing. If that's what it is, and you have it activated and rev the motor up you could blow the seals in the pump.

Even if you set the timing to 1.05 statically and then pull your cold start out, it will further advance the timing.
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: camboscams on February 15, 2009, 10:19:38 am
So to avoid the blowing of the seals, i should just give it 12 volts all the time?
If it changes the timing do i need to do anything special when setting the static timing?
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: burn_your_money on February 15, 2009, 12:15:05 pm
Static timing should be the same. Take some more pictures of the pump so we can see what it is exactly
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: camboscams on February 15, 2009, 06:40:44 pm
10-4, Might have them Monday.
Title: Injection Pump Woe's
Post by: camboscams on February 16, 2009, 04:05:28 pm
Here are some more pictures...

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt251/camboscams/02-16-09_1508.jpg)

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt251/camboscams/02-16-09_1509.jpg)

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt251/camboscams/02-16-09_1510.jpg)

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt251/camboscams/02-13-09_1214.jpg)[/img]