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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: dieselherb1 on February 04, 2009, 04:25:44 pm
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Has anyone had any experience with a VW automatic in a diesel vehicle? I heard the VW autos are crap before 04. I thought I'd rebuild one(with upgrades if there are any) and try it in a caddy with a TD engine. Just for fun.
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automatic: failure
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a guy from CT was selling one on the samba a while back search for auto-e transmission or diesel automatic something like that
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I have one in my 84 Grumman Kubvan, and it's very low geared, ie 100km/h and the engine is really humming. Also having only 3 gears means the engine really winds up between shifts. As soon as the weather gets nicer I'm converting it to a 5 spd.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy9vy0pduMA
i think that car had a 3 speed, but could be wrong. it should bolt right up to a mk3, and mk1 with the right bracket or modification.
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I have an automatic in my 86 Jetta. It is a 3 speed. The starter is different from the manual transmission and is located right under the exhaust. I have not had any problems but I hear the constant exposure to heat makes itself known.
It is poorly geared for highway driving. I have only taken my Jetta over 80 km/h twice. On the one and only long trip I took on the highway it was overheating something fierce. I had to run full heat inside on a midsummers day.
The one weak spot I hear of is the seal between the final drive and the planetary housing. Once gear oil and ATF mix it is game over.
I also hear these transmissions are suprisingly heavy.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy9vy0pduMA
i think that car had a 3 speed, but could be wrong. it should bolt right up to a mk3, and mk1 with the right bracket or modification.
OMG I can't believe what I just saw in the video :shock:
How does NOS hurt your engine or reduce its life?
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Chrysler made a "A404" internally its the same as the new ones in the dodge neons. So if you can find one (dodge omni, Shadow?) You could build it up to handle the pressure. Not to mention you would get a lock up converter.
That A404 was bolted to the engine VW made for them, a 1.7 I think it was.
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having driven a neon automatic, if the omni ones are the same I would say not to go that route.
the neon autos make the car really anemic, I have a neon stick and it is so much quicker than my sisters auto, it is painful how long you have to wait with your foot on the floor fo rit to get to 35MPH.
manual is the way to go, better performance and much much lighter.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy9vy0pduMA
i think that car had a 3 speed, but could be wrong. it should bolt right up to a mk3, and mk1 with the right bracket or modification.
What the HELL! i thought propane was safe on diesel's not NOS? thats sick
but then again......"Bottles are for babies.....REAL men get BLOWN!"
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Chrysler made a "A404" internally its the same as the new ones in the dodge neons. So if you can find one (dodge omni, Shadow?) You could build it up to handle the pressure. Not to mention you would get a lock up converter.
That A404 was bolted to the engine VW made for them, a 1.7 I think it was.
They bolt up to the VW motor but the axles and mounts are different. I have a 5 speed from an old Omni that came as a "spare" with my Scirocco. I've kept it around in case I ever do the TD into a Caravan swap I've considered.
As far as the automatic VW transmissions are concerned, I'd never have another one. They work great when they work but they really hurt fuel economy and getting the starter off one is a real nightmare. I only put 10,000 kms on my 89 GLI before the seals between the transmission and differential parts failed. I had planned on replacing the seals but after the nightmare I had getting it out (should have pulled the motor and tranny together but didn't) I decided to switch it back to a standard. As soon as I got it out from under the car I came directly into the house and put it on the local Kijiji site for free so I wouldn't be tempted to try it again.
I suppose if you replaced the seals and rebuilt the starter first you'd be alright for a while. I just can't imagine how gutless a diesel automatic would be on takeoff.
Not being to start it by towing it on those really cold mornings would be a down side too if you live in a cold climate.
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I can't wait to try mine out...
For the record, there is no way that a 1.6 auto starter will bolt onto an AAZ motor. It's just too big. I tried a rebuilt gasser starter and it wouldn't spin the motor over.
I'd say it wieghs pretty close to the same as the manual tranny
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having driven a neon automatic, if the omni ones are the same I would say not to go that route.
the neon autos make the car really anemic, I have a neon stick and it is so much quicker than my sisters auto, it is painful how long you have to wait with your foot on the floor fo rit to get to 35MPH.
manual is the way to go, better performance and much much lighter.
The OP was asking about Auto transmissions.
Also you are comparing a Neon to a VW diesel? Come on man the Neon is a POS as soon as it rolls off the line. There are some good parts we can use off them though and whither or not we like it there are guys out there making big power out of their Neons.
The A404 is capable of holding anything your TD can throw at it if it's assembled with the correct parts.
Aftermarket parts are available for it. Heck you can get a stock rebuild kit for one for less than $100.00
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My wife refuses to drive automatics !!!
Anyway, the common problem with using almost any automatic trans from a gas engine on to a diesel is about controls. How are you going to control the mechanical computer in the automatic ? (Valve body assembly) There are 2 problems. First one is the throttle position sensor - in mechanical auto trans, this is not too hard - there is linkage you will need to connect to our throttle.
The second control problem is very hard to deal with. That is the engine load sensor. On a mechanical automatic, it is simply a vacuum line to the intake manifold. So, when it sees low vacuum, it means high load.
If you do not solve both of these, your engine will be lugged around or over revved. Not healthy for the trans nor the engine.
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i think if there was a way of modifying the ratio's on the automatic tranny, it might actually be a bit of a sleeper IMO...
take a 1.9TDI motor with gobs of torque on the bottom end, and make sure it has a VNT turbo... that thing would sure love tall gears :wink:
just driving mine around, it just loves low rpm and the higher gears.
surely it must be possible to get custom gears for these transmissions?? i had an '87 gas golf auto, and it was a load of crap. off the line it wasn't too bad, but 1st gear was horrible. it was soooo long, and then 2nd gear was sooo short, and 3rd gear was even longer. 4k rpm @ 120kph? :roll:
a torquy diesel would love a nice long 1st gear. in fact i would be a bit worried of snapping something in the transmission from all that load... :shock: :lol:
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i think if there was a way of modifying the ratio's on the automatic tranny, it might actually be a bit of a sleeper IMO...
take a 1.9TDI motor with gobs of torque on the bottom end, and make sure it has a VNT turbo... that thing would sure love tall gears :wink:
just driving mine around, it just loves low rpm and the higher gears.
surely it must be possible to get custom gears for these transmissions?? i had an '87 gas golf auto, and it was a load of crap. off the line it wasn't too bad, but 1st gear was horrible. it was soooo long, and then 2nd gear was sooo short, and 3rd gear was even longer. 4k rpm @ 120kph? :roll:
a torquy diesel would love a nice long 1st gear. in fact i would be a bit worried of snapping something in the transmission from all that load... :shock: :lol:
Before you do this, block the vacuum line from a gasser automatic and see how it drives. You will not be happy.
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i think if there was a way of modifying the ratio's on the automatic tranny, it might actually be a bit of a sleeper IMO...
take a 1.9TDI motor with gobs of torque on the bottom end, and make sure it has a VNT turbo... that thing would sure love tall gears :wink:
just driving mine around, it just loves low rpm and the higher gears.
surely it must be possible to get custom gears for these transmissions?? i had an '87 gas golf auto, and it was a load of crap. off the line it wasn't too bad, but 1st gear was horrible. it was soooo long, and then 2nd gear was sooo short, and 3rd gear was even longer. 4k rpm @ 120kph? :roll:
a torquy diesel would love a nice long 1st gear. in fact i would be a bit worried of snapping something in the transmission from all that load... :shock: :lol:
Before you do this, block the vacuum line from a gasser automatic and see how it drives. You will not be happy.
i did not think that the old vw autoboxes used vacuum to switch gears (well maybe vacuum, but not vacuum sending) but simply pressure from inside the tranny from the load...
i guess a diesel autobox will have to be used (and modified :twisted:) or get a solenoid valve to control the vacuum? hmmm i wonder if some paddle shifters could be adapted... YEA!!! 3 SPEED PADDLE SHIFT :lol: how useless would that be... :roll:
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Also you are comparing a Neon to a VW diesel? Come on man the Neon is a POS as soon as it rolls off the line. There are some good parts we can use off them though and whither or not we like it there are guys out there making big power out of their Neons.
I was comparing a neon auto(what was suggested as a tranny) to a neon manual.
night and day, the auto feels like it is only running on three cylinders(it is not, I spent lots of time making sure that there was nothing wrong with my sisters car except the auto tranny after driving it) and the manual is actually a very quick car.
but I have never liked automatic transmissions, I really like the connection to the car a manual transmission gives the driver.
-Owen
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i think if there was a way of modifying the ratio's on the automatic tranny, it might actually be a bit of a sleeper IMO...
take a 1.9TDI motor with gobs of torque on the bottom end, and make sure it has a VNT turbo... that thing would sure love tall gears :wink:
just driving mine around, it just loves low rpm and the higher gears.
surely it must be possible to get custom gears for these transmissions?? i had an '87 gas golf auto, and it was a load of crap. off the line it wasn't too bad, but 1st gear was horrible. it was soooo long, and then 2nd gear was sooo short, and 3rd gear was even longer. 4k rpm @ 120kph? :roll:
a torquy diesel would love a nice long 1st gear. in fact i would be a bit worried of snapping something in the transmission from all that load... :shock: :lol:
Before you do this, block the vacuum line from a gasser automatic and see how it drives. You will not be happy.
i did not think that the old vw autoboxes used vacuum to switch gears (well maybe vacuum, but not vacuum sending) but simply pressure from inside the tranny from the load...
i guess a diesel autobox will have to be used (and modified :twisted:) or get a solenoid valve to control the vacuum? hmmm i wonder if some paddle shifters could be adapted... YEA!!! 3 SPEED PADDLE SHIFT :lol: how useless would that be... :roll:
Interesting point - I've always avoided VW automatics so I don't know if they are like GM, Ford, Chrysler (non-computerized) autos that all use vacuum as a load indicator.
I think any auto can be converted to manual paddle shifting :-) This you might be happy with. Kid of a manual with no clutch :-)
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i actually had a rabbit 1.6d with an automatic, heres a movie of it doing 0-60, i didn't drive it conservatively at all and i constantly got 40mpg or better. it was a great car i miss it, but on the highway it was terrible, the motor was really screaming, i think i had it going 80 or 85 before but that is not a speed i would ever consider cruising at with one of these cars. the long gears were really nice for acceleration as you can see, but third gear is just too short. in the movie it got kind of weird around 50mph i think it shifted to third too early because i unknowingly didn't have the pedal down the whole way, so it went to third then back to second real quick. the starter was a *** i definitely had issues with that it would get hot then either the solenoid wouldn't engage or it would just grind. i replaced the starter and then it would only do this very rarely. over all, if you want something to run around in the town and country with, the automatic is great i loved it, but if you want it for any highway use forget it unless its for short trips like under 10 miles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys6jVBWt3ms
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i actually had a rabbit 1.6d with an automatic, heres a movie of it doing 0-60, i didn't drive it conservatively at all and i constantly got 40mpg or better. it was a great car i miss it, but on the highway it was terrible, the motor was really screaming, i think i had it going 80 or 85 before but that is not a speed i would ever consider cruising at with one of these cars. the long gears were really nice for acceleration as you can see, but third gear is just too short. in the movie it got kind of weird around 50mph i think it shifted to third too early because i unknowingly didn't have the pedal down the whole way, so it went to third then back to second real quick. the starter was a *** i definitely had issues with that it would get hot then either the solenoid wouldn't engage or it would just grind. i replaced the starter and then it would only do this very rarely. over all, if you want something to run around in the town and country with, the automatic is great i loved it, but if you want it for any highway use forget it unless its for short trips like under 10 miles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys6jVBWt3ms
i always enjoy the comments on youtube :roll: that thing is DEFINITELY faster than a 5 speed off the line (if you didn't have it to the floor). this almost tempts me to switch over... i think the main reason for getting such great mileage is the fact that the engine stays in its efficiency range for a much longer period. the first gear is so long that unless you have your foot down, it probably won't go more than 2500 rpm or so. in this case the normal automatic transmission losses are counteracted by the requirement for higher rpm by the 5 speed transmission. essentially, 2000 rpm is going to require roughly the same fuel in both transmissions, but the 5 speed will be going slower while accelerating (shorter gears).
look at the TD automatic
1st 2nd 3rd Final
2.55 1.45 1.00 - - 3.13
gives a respectable 64mph @ 3k rpm! now lets change 2nd to about 1.00, and 3rd to oh say... 0.50 ??? :twisted: 1500rpm @ 64mph... would definitely require a 1.9TD to put out the required torque to handle that thing... or a hopped up 1.6TD
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well, to get your motor to stay in its efficiency range better, just shift sooner, thats what I like about manual transmissions, complete control
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well, to get your motor to stay in its efficiency range better, just shift sooner, thats what I like about manual transmissions, complete control
true... but trying to accelerate for performance... its really hard unless you have a nice tall transmission.
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I have a factory TD automatic Quantum. It's certainly not the lightest car ever in the VW fleet. It has a cute little feature that will disengage the trans at stoplights and while coasting to save fuel if you put it in the "E" mode. My only complaint is the 3rd gear not being tall enough. It makes for rather noisy road trips.
So to the some of the posters earlier on...just source out and auto that was originally geared for a diesel.
I've also heard that when it comes to the autos the transverse and the logitudal ones are the same, they are just bolted to different finals drives. I've yet to confirm this but if true you can souce it from either and likely make it work given the appropriate final drive.
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I have a factory TD automatic Quantum. It's certainly not the lightest car ever in the VW fleet. It has a cute little feature that will disengage the trans at stoplights and while coasting to save fuel if you put it in the "E" mode. My only complaint is the 3rd gear not being tall enough. It makes for rather noisy road trips.
So to the some of the posters earlier on...just source out and auto that was originally geared for a diesel.
I've also heard that when it comes to the autos the transverse and the logitudal ones are the same, they are just bolted to different finals drives. I've yet to confirm this but if true you can souce it from either and likely make it work given the appropriate final drive.
i highly doubt the transmissions are interchangeable, they may be the same basic thing with small differences. i did love the E on my automatic, it took a bit to get used to, but i think that also helped with mileage, but u just gotta watch if ur having blow by problems haha, my engine started running away so i hate the brake to try to stall it out and then the transmission disengaged and the motor screamed its head off until i put my hand on the intake, that motor didn't survive haha. i also agree though, i think a regeared automatic and a built td would definitely tear *** up, especially since you could preload the turbo