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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: gilligan5000 on January 26, 2009, 01:55:25 pm
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I know it has been brought up before, but there seems to be this plume of mystery surrounding the topic.
My goal: clean up the engine bay as much as possible. In order to do so, the brake booster is gone.
Questions - Would it be possible to delete the vacuum pump altogether? How crutial is it to have vacuum on the block? Could I just use a breather filter on the block connection instead?
If it is possible to remove the vacuum pump...how?
Unfortunately, we can't use the 16v trick because the diesel intermediate shaft and oil pump spin the other way, but would it be possible to just hack off the top of the vacuum pump? (rendering it useless, but keeping the gears in place so that the oil pump will still work, giving me the look I'm going for)
If you have any thoughts or insight please post up
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well, I did the same, but for other reasons.
I like non assist brakes and removing it frees up some HP(not much, but what the hey)
you will have to look at the pump to see if you can hack it up or not, I just took it apart and gutted the internals to render it useless, still sticks up out of the block, but does nothing.
the other thing you can do is find an oil pump drive gear from an early diesel that came without vacuum assist brakes, but this may be hard to do as they are rare.
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On the industrial engines they just cover the hole with a flat round plate. Same dimensions as the base of the pump and held on by the same type of fork.
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is the gear requiered for the oil pump? i wonder myself if a small eletric vacuum pump could keep up with the brakes so that i could free up some room in the engine bay myself. i can get small 12v pumps from work.
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the issue is that you still need the gear to drive the oil pump, and it needs some kind of shaft to spin on.
the non power brake cars had a little holder that had the gear on a shaft that just looked like a block off plate from the outside.
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wow...called the GAP and got some part numbers for a 79' ck diesel rabbit (no vacuum brakes)...
068103113B - cover for where the pump should go - $7.70 - available
068115027B - gear so that the oil pump still works - $312 - no availability
looks like I'll be trying to hack apart the pump and use that gear...
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You could look into a 2.0 16v setup and see how it's done on that car.
They ran the distributor on the head, so they had to cover the hole.
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is the gear requiered for the oil pump? i wonder myself if a small eletric vacuum pump could keep up with the brakes so that i could free up some room in the engine bay myself. i can get small 12v pumps from work.
Yes, the int shaft turns the cab pump and the oil pump has a key slot on the top of the shaft that rides off the vac pump, you still have to have a way to transfer the motion from the int shaft.
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is the gear requiered for the oil pump? i wonder myself if a small eletric vacuum pump could keep up with the brakes so that i could free up some room in the engine bay myself. i can get small 12v pumps from work.
The guys doing Electric Vehicle conversions run into this problem. Ideal was the vacuum pump assembly Ford used on their diesel cars as it was self contained. They are no longer available... The pump is only one piece of the problem. The other 2 are the vacuum reservoir and the vacuum switch. The switch usually cost about $150. This controls the pump. If you can get pumps for free, do they have the switch too ?
Here's my cousin's EV conversion of a Saturn.
http://www.evforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17
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Will,one of these work? Using the vacuum pump gear?
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/1761/BBM_Dizzy_Gizzy_ABA_2_0L_16V
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One thing to keep in mind that because the IM pulley is driven by the *back* of the timing belt on a diesel the IM shaft rotates in the opposite direction to a gasser, and the vacuum pump drive gear is cut appropriately so that oil pump rotates in the correct direction.
Not sure if any kind of modified distributor gear will mesh or drive the oil pump in the correct direction.... just a thought.
Vince
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x2 what Vince said. I looked into modifying a 16V hold down cover to a modified diesel gear. The gears on the intermediate shaft are different between gassers and diesel. I decided since the shaft rotation is trying to shove the vacuum pump gear up out of the motor (going by memory) that the risk of changing it and loosing oil pump was too great. I have an old non-working vacuum pump to keep the oil flowing. Used a small K&N style filter to keep crud from going into the vacuum pump.
I have seen some folks who made a 16V style plug with a diesel gear. No clue about longevity tho.
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Will,one of these work? Using the vacuum pump gear?
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/1761/BBM_Dizzy_Gizzy_ABA_2_0L_16V
only one way to find out...
Thanks man, I had no idea that anyone made anything like that!
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Well, as it is, the "Dizzy Gizzy" conversion from BBM will not work for the diesel. We've got one at the shop.
Turns out, the hole in the block on a diesel is smaller than the plug used to block it off "2.0L ABA". Also the bushing in the block off cap is smaller than the diesel shaft, only fits gasser shafts and gasser gears.
Now one could machine down the cap to fit the block and you could cut off the shaft of a diesel vacuum pump and machine it down to fit the cap bushing. Then it would all work. But I think its more of a fuss and plus the price of the convesion parts plus the machine work to make it work.
I thought you'ld might like to know.
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fspGTD did this to his Rabbit.
A search should find some tips about changing the brake peddle connection, what oil pump he used and how he capped it.
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i have an industrial engine here that i'm building up for my mk1.
i havnt yet pulled the oil pump assy, but mine definately has the blanking plate, and so must have that gear aswell.... just dont know when i'll be pulling it apart thats all :-)
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Interested in selling the gear? :)
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i'd say i'll have no use for it, so yeah i guess.
i dont think its worth much to me, despite the advertised price of a new set... wait until tomorrow night - i might pull it apart tomorrow and look.
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I found the whole set up for free at the Rest home for Rabbit's.
Just need to press off the old 30mm gear and press on the new 36mm gear.
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee10/joshmarstall/PICT0827.jpg)
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee10/joshmarstall/PICT0824.jpg)
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you suck...thats exactly what i want.
well, just for record keeping purposes 16v blockoff plates do fit...kind of.
2.0l - 8 valve aba - too big
2.0l - 16 valve - too big
1.8l - 16 valve - PERFECT
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Ha, ha. I just got another one, but brand new w/ oil pump for 20 bucks!! :o.
Its a "Schadek" brand name, but all I need is the gear and cap. The shaft is the same as the 16V. Just press off the drive gear and press on the diesel gear at the oil pump. Walla.
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I just pulled a gear, cap, and 36mm splined oil pump off my mk2 1.6td. Was going to list it all FS, just dunno a price. Replaced it with a rotary vacuum pump cause I like ny power brakes.
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I don't think the oil pump itself is worth anything more than $20 used, but the splined drive gear that slides onto the oil pump is NLA.
Found one new through the dealer for $250!!! :o.
Put it up and see if anyone is interested?
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why are you guys going soo crazy trying to delete your vacuum brakes? if you are trying to save weight, take out your fuel tank, and the back half of your interior, and your head liner. might as well take the engine and trans out while you are at it. that will save like, 3-400 lbs.
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Well what I'm doing with the delete is to clean up the engine a little, and would be on the drag car only. I plan on using braided brake lines and a 22mm brake master for my stopping pwr. Plus my foot :D.
I already pulled the fuel tank. Plan is to use a 1 or 2 gallon fuel cell in the engine compartment.
Interior has been pulled out as well, except the dash and head liner.
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dunno if I would be comfortable with the fuel being beside the engine :O
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dunno if I would be comfortable with the fuel being beside the engine :O
Are we talking diesel fuel or gasoline? It's not easy to get diesel to burn by itself, without a wick of some sort.
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Yes next to the engine, well under the hood.
Diesel fuel of course. This is a diesel related web forum.
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diesel is safe. way safer than gasoline. and i would smoke at the fuel station at the resort, and in the shop, and pretty much anywhere around gas, and diesel nad never exploded once. diesel burns so slow that it takes a while to light, and like he said ^ it almost takes a wick or something for it to burn on.
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maybe a 1200F cherry red Turbo? loool diesel ignites by heat right.. I think that'll do 'er. Or will it?!?
Im just saying.. its not in my best interest.. so noo way for me. lol
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!UPDATE!
Well, I went ahead and hacked up the vacuum pump...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/gilligan5000/Jetta/IMAG0433-1.jpg)
and turned this...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/gilligan5000/Jetta/IMAG0435-1.jpg)
into this :)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/gilligan5000/Jetta/IMAG0448.jpg)
the stock gear spins freely, just as it used too. Just make sure you press out the o-ring and the bushing before you weld it shut.
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let us know how it turns out. is the shaft loose in the aluminum plug (pump base) at all?
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let us know how it turns out. is the shaft loose in the aluminum plug (pump base) at all?
it spins just as it did when it was one piece. The shaft movement is limited laterally by the brass bushing, and vertically by the gear itself. If you want to see it in action, here you go:
randy's jetta turbo diesel first run (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP5RSh1Rp8U#)
I have a brand new 36mm oil pump an 10w40 oil getting 5bar at starup :)
(don't mind the smoke in the vid...fresh paint just getting a burn in)
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is that the clutch slippin or the tires burnin?
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is that the clutch slippin or the tires burnin?
hahaha, clutch...
full details on the build here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3444483&page=1 (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3444483&page=1)
I just wanted to update the thread for future reference here...because I love you guys :)