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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 96jetta on December 06, 2008, 09:08:18 am
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i changed the head guasket and the timing belt plus the tentioner, every thing is on perfect mark but it still doesnt run like it did at all (if it runs at all). as muchas i play with timing and pull every thing apart it still doesnt like life is there any one in the cambridge kitchener/waterloo area that could give me a hand?
thanks Geoff
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How about injection pump timing?
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you could always time it by ear... i think its even possible to loosen the injection pump bolts and time it while the engine is running... either that or you need to loosen bolts, move pump, tighten and start and repeat as necessary.
you can get the car running pretty good that way... enough to drive it to someone who knows how to do it right. just keep an eye on smoke...
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i changed the head guasket and the timing belt plus the tentioner, every thing is on perfect mark but it still doesnt run like it did at all (if it runs at all). as muchas i play with timing and pull every thing apart it still doesnt like life is there any one in the cambridge kitchener/waterloo area that could give me a hand?
thanks Geoff
Did you remove the head bolts in the correct sequence?..if not your head may be warped :/
Did you check the head wasnt warped?
Did you use new bolts and tighten them correctly?
As someone else said, IP timing. Is it set correctly?
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ya the head was torqued down in the pattern given in the book. but the original bolts were used and the head was never checked for warpage. i also played with the injection pump to get the timing right but it just pours out white or gray smoke
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The bolts are one time use...they stretch. I would replace them.
As for the head I would get it checked if its warped and I would get it planed at a machine shop. As for the not running right....you need a special guage to set the timing on the injection pump.
Check to see if you have pressure building up in the coolant system.
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White or gray smoke is an indication of un burnt diesel. injected to late in the combustion cycle. That to me indicates you have the timing inccorrect, and could posibly have either the timing belt off a tooth, or the injectors are out of tune.
When i was diagnosing my rough start problem after a pump install, i pulle dof the exhaust mani, and watched each cylinder, found out one cylinder had a bad injector and was blowing white smoke.
I would say make sure you get that baby set up as close as possible, and then timing it by ear.
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Perhaps try setting the timing from scratch:
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28
Pump timing is important, but so is the cam timing.
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is there a way to teat the injectors? or injection pump? to make sure the timing on them is ok?
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Follow the timing procedure and it will be correct. :wink:
If you didn't have injector issues before you swapped headgaskets it's unlikely that that is the issue now.
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is it at all likely that the compression is low and i need to do the rings? :cry:
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Let's start with: why did you replace the headgasket in the first place, and how was the engine running *before* you did the work ?
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it was running fine but i dstroyed 2 of 8 lifters in the head so i pulled the head to make sure i didnt bend the valves of smash the pistons. which i didnt. and i put all new lifters in the head. i did put a 3 hole guasket on instead of the origional 2 hole. and it hasnt been right since. its been timed and timed over and over again
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How did you destroy the two lifters? Significant change in valve timing resulting in valve-piston contact? If that is the case it might be possible that the valves are not okay.
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you could always time it by ear... i think its even possible to loosen the injection pump bolts and time it while the engine is running... either that or you need to loosen bolts, move pump, tighten and start and repeat as necessary.
you can get the car running pretty good that way... enough to drive it to someone who knows how to do it right. just keep an eye on smoke...
I have done the method of loosening the pump and doing that.
It worked although it is credited as being "hill billy timing" :P
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it was running fine but i dstroyed 2 of 8 lifters in the head so i pulled the head to make sure i didnt bend the valves of smash the pistons. which i didnt. and i put all new lifters in the head. i did put a 3 hole guasket on instead of the origional 2 hole. and it hasnt been right since. its been timed and timed over and over again
I think this could at least be part of the problem. If your engine is worn and you put the incorrect thickness gasket then you could be in the spot your in now. These engines use the thickness for the quench of the air/fuel, if you put a 3 notch on where a 2 or even a 1 is needed and add that with an engine with several hundred thousand miles and you get something that doesn't burn correct. If you were unsure you should always do the piston protrusion to check which one goes in.
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you could always time it by ear... i think its even possible to loosen the injection pump bolts and time it while the engine is running... either that or you need to loosen bolts, move pump, tighten and start and repeat as necessary.
you can get the car running pretty good that way... enough to drive it to someone who knows how to do it right. just keep an eye on smoke...
I have done the method of loosening the pump and doing that.
It worked although it is credited as being "hill billy timing" :P
if you have lots of patience, and a really good ear, i bet you could get it to within proper running spec. maybe even better!
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so from what evey body has told me i need to take it all apart again and put the right guasket in and recheack the valves and get the head cheacked for flatness. right? sorry if i seem to be retarded at this its my first diesel
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nah, at least you found this place. I ruined a head completely on my first one. Then on the second head I had a leaky injector and broke the head trying to get it to seal. I didn't have this place around then to help.
Just remember that the timing is EVERYTHING. Crank, Cam, IP timing is usually the difference between running, bending valves, or smoke.
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i just gotta get every thing in perfect place then im go go
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i just gotta get every thing in perfect place then im go go
Just my opinion: the fastest way to fix this is to slow down.
- first step: get the service manual and read the chapter on cylinder heads
- the head should come off, be completely disassembled, and thoroughly gone over. Checked for straightness and cracks, damaged valve guides, damaged valves, damaged lifters. If you pranged two lifters chances are very good that the valves stems are bent as well and are likely binding.
- once you know the extent of the damage you can decide what's actually needed to repair and how much $$$. Valves, guides, seals, lifters. If you suspect you have low compression as well you'll be making a call on a full rebuild.
- if you decide to re-assemble you'll need new head bolts and you'll want to measure to ensure you're putting the correct head gasket on... the measuring procedure is in the service manual. As is the correct sequence and procedure for carefully torquing the head down.
As you've found out, diesels are interference engines and bad things can happen very quickly if they are re-assembled in a hurry... slow and steady wins the race !! :wink:
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I'm with Vincent -
Relax, slow down, follow the timing process step by step. Do you have the cam locking bar, dial indicator, and injection pump pin ? If not, get them from e-bay - less than $90 in your hands. The head bolts might be an issue soon, but the timing is required now.
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Where abouts in K/W are you?
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is the hans or Bentleys one preferred? and i cant thank u guys enough for all the help provided :D
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The Bentley is the official service manual... all hail the mighty Bentley:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/moses_bentley_small.jpg)
You know I *have* to do this, right, ... just can't help myself ?? :roll:
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Lol like how u xpresses that haha
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If "95 Glenbrook" is a Calgary address Concept 1 will have 'em. :wink:
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na its in Ontario :)
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You know I *have* to do this, right, ... just can't help myself :roll: ??
Vince, Vince, Vince.... It's your job!
I still almost piss my self a litte everytime I see that. :lol: :lol: :lol:
You know I *have* to do this, right, ... just can't help myself :roll: ??
Vince, Vince, Vince.... It's your job!
I still almost piss my self a litte everytime I see that. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I've used both and Bentley is much better.
Yes it is 8)
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You know I *have* to do this, right, ... just can't help myself :roll: ??
Vince, Vince, Vince.... It's your job!
I still almost piss my self a litte everytime I see that. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I've used both and Bentley is much better.