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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: dave friday on November 30, 2008, 03:56:32 pm
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Morning all, i'm going to replace the leaky crank shaft oil seal [flywheel end] an my jx engine,what should the bolts be torqued to?[my "Bentley" only covers the non turbo engine].
Ta.
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Turbo/ non turbo will be the same.
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Cheers Zuk, so 75nm[54 ftlb] the reason i ask is because a well respected mechanic said 30nm+90deg.And can i re-use the bolts?.
ta.
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Hmm, now you have me wondering.
I don't believe the flywheel bolts need to be replaced. I have reused mine SEVERAL times now.
Now I'm not condoning this or saying its correct but I put Red loctite on them and used my 3/8 impact till I felt good and went from there.
I torqued them the first few times I had it apart but grew tired of holding the damn thing to get them torqued.
In this case don't do as I do but do as the Bentley instructs.
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Now I'm not condoning this or saying its correct but I put Red loctite on them and used my 3/8 impact till I felt good and went from there.
I torqued them the first few times I had it apart but grew tired of holding the damn thing to get them torqued.
In this case don't do as I do but do as the Bentley instructs.
Me too, same procedure. I know they should be torqued, and I torque all the other engine bolts, but these have so much redundancy.
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So 30nm+90deg is wrong?, .
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So 30nm+90deg is wrong?, .
I don't have my Bradley here... the + 90 deg doesn't ring a bell for the flywheel, but it could be in the book. Do you have one ?
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Yes i do but it only covers the early cs engine, i thought the 30nm+90 was/is an up date [ for the syncro van perhaps?].
i just dont want to balls it up!.
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It will be the same across the board.
If it says 30nm+90 then that's the ticket.
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Cheers.
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There are two different torque values depending on whether the bolts are "shouldered" or not. Don't ask how I know this. :| .
Fortunately loctite has been my friend, so far. :wink:
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You guys are talking pressure plate bolts.
Torque the flywheel bolts that high and you WIL be replacing them.
I think it's around 15 ft lbs,.. I'll check my "Bradley" :) hee hee
Yep,... 15 ft. lbs
You have everything else straight about replacing the rear seal?
Got the sour cream container special tool? Don't want to flip the lip,.. or you'll be doing it again.
And I swear; it doesn't matter how flat the seal is with the edge of the seal holder,.. that seal holder isn't square with the crank.
Take a look at the seal before you remove it. I noticed that one I pressed in wasn't flush with the seal carrier so I looked close at the next, before I remooved it,... it wasn't flush.
I use a cutdown old pressure plate and some washers to press the rear seal in,... so it's square with the crank.
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I use a cutdown old pressure plate and some washers to press the rear seal in,... so it's square with the crank.
That's a really good idea.
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Cheers all, smutts thanks for the info re the bolts, the part number did change in 86!...the bolts i took out [when i replaced the seal last year, re-build,new head, bearings etc] are shouldered, i will have to check what bolts i fitted!, any idea about the 30nm+90deg?.fatmobile, the seal i fitted was a bit loose [cheep crap] ,the one i'm fitting this time is a vw one complete with the carrier,thanks for the info, i'll make sure its square to the crank.
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:D Aha! Found it! "Bolt without shoulder, 55lb ft". "Bolt with shoulder 74lb ft" So says my book of lies (1990 haynes) and don't forget the loctite! There are many books that give the wrong value, which is why I have been waiting for something ominous to happen to my flywheel, as the info I had in my old book was bollocks. Two years of waiting so far, so I might have got away with it! :mrgreen: Clutch kits often come with new bolts.
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Thanks again Smutts, just had a look at the part no [N902 061 03 ] and Googled it ,came up with 22ftlb+90deg!! i only did them to 54ftlb! so can re-use them with locktite.
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Sooo you weren't talking about flywheel bolts?
I guess most everyone but me knew what bolts you were talking about, even though the topic says flywheel bolts... and you never said different.
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The 6 bolts that bolt the flywheel to the crankshaft are what i'm on about.
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So let's be really careful here, lest someone's new engine comes flying apart !!
On transverse vdubs like these the pressure plate bolts to the crankshaft, using 6 stout single-use torque-to-yield bolts, usually supplied with blue locktite on them. My Bentley says 60 Nm (44 ft lbs) + 1/4 turn.
The flywheel bolts to the pressure plate with 9 much smaller bolts, torqued to a significantly smaller value. My Bentley says 20 Nm (15 ft lbs)
Easy to get confused, since most every other engine out there is the other way around, and if you just read the text of the Haynes or Bentley you might either strip out the flywheel bolts *or* not tighten the pressure plate bolts enough and have a new wobble in your life some day :cry:
The upside of how VW did it ?? We can change our throwout bearing without separating the engine and tranny. :wink:
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Cheers, the jx 1588cc td engine in the t3/t25 syncro van has the gear box mounted on the flywheel end ,in line with the engine.I just had a look at the layout of the golf [gear box under the engine].....it all becomes clear.
Ta.
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I have heard 22 and 44 (then a 1/4 turn) for the pressure plate bolts.
I lean toward 22,... because 44 then 1/4 turn is very hard to do.
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Sorry to threadjack, but!
What a missed opportunity this clutch design was. Look at an 1980's GM Opel or Vauxhall, or a 1970's OHV F14 Datsun, they also had this arse about face clutch design with a pushrod through a hollow primary shaft. But, they allowed the primary shaft to be slid out of the clutch plate, then a hatch to allow the clutch to drop out. Doddle. Weep as you struggle to change the VW clutch. Leisurely 45 minutes clutch change anyone? 8) Those were the days. :P
P.S. Theres rather a variety of torques and angle turns out there! Looks as though VW have changed their mind a few times on how to keep these things attached. :roll:
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Hi Dave.
just checked on the Autodata CD.
Figures quote there are 30Nm + 90° with using new bolts.
Thats for a JX engine in a T3.
That's what I use here with no ill effects.
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PS, I think the replacing the bolts thing is about the thread lock compound that comes on the new bolts.
Obviously new bolts come with the compound on, old ones don't!
I have reused them here in the past with a blob of threadlock, again with good results.
You can use a type 1 flywheel lock if used with a long bolt and a spacer.
It doesn't fit as it's meant to but it's enough to lock the flywheel while you torque the bolts up.
I always thread lock and torque them here as I don't want one coming loose on a customer, doesn't bode well with customer relations when things fall off while doing 80 in the outside lane of the M1..
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Thanks Simon [Baxter] and yes, your the well respected mechanic!,i must get an Autodata cd.