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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: dieselwagen on July 28, 2008, 10:32:50 pm
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is it possible to retrofit a EGR system to a non turbo 1.6 diesel.
myself and some friends are curious to see how much of a NOx reduction can we expect with a different percentage of biodiesel blend. with a EGR in place.
we are all gasser nerds and not very well verse with the diesel world.
so one of the question is : will the diesel engine handle recirculating exhaust gas 100% of the time including idle speed? or should it only be introduced at certain speeds
under what conditions should the EGR be functioning on a diesel engine?
are the requirements similar to gasoline engines?
(i.e.) not during idle, and w.o.t. , only functional @part throttle & decel., etc.
any ideas, inputs, and negative comments welcome since this topic only came up last weekend after a couple of cases of heineken's.
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Why?
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since this topic only came up last weekend after a couple of cases of heineken's.
Tdi's have egr system and the intakes clog off with carbon due to the sooty content. A common "mod" to a Tdi is to delete the EGR.
Here's a pic of a nasty one. They get worse than this!
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/coolairvw/TDI%20GTG/Cimg1499.jpg)
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Why?
well, this topic came up while me and my homies were all in good spirits and kinda chinese eyed from that fatty we're smoking.
one of them argued biodiesel is much worst than a gross polluting gasser, because he strongly believe NOx production is much higher than #2 diesel. and NOx + sunlight = photochemical smog.
so we were just talking about ways to keep NOx in control with biodiesel use, and once again this is just an early stages of a crazy idea we got floating around. may or may not happen. there's quite a bit of modification involve to a non turbo, non pcm controlled vw.
maybe if the state of CA mandates "all" older diesels to comply with some type of sniffer test then me and my buddies might get serious about this.
thanks in advance to all inputs, very much appreciated.
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the NOx could be reduced without EGR. just have really retarded injection timing and you're set :wink:
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you ought to egr your bong before you egr your TD :P better immediate return :)
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you ought to egr your bong before you egr your TD :P better immediate return :)
Oh MY!!!!
:lol: :shock: :lol: :shock: :lol:
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Well, this explains how all those whacked out laws get passed in California. :lol: :P :lol: :P :lol:
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his sig says he's from Palo Alto but I'm guessing he's really from Humboldt County 8)
(http://www.northcoastjournal.com/110801/cover1108-photohed.jpg)
Ok, i'll quit now :)
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Hey, I give him credit for thinking outside of the box!!!
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Me too. NOX levels are not DRASTICALLY increased by using Bio. They are elevated though. A simple timing adjustment will make them less than D2. Now take that into consideration with the 70%ish particulate reduction and you win. You can then tell them to put it in their pipes and smoke it :p
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the NOx could be reduced without EGR. just have really retarded injection timing and you're set :wink:
one a serious note:
bear with me fellows as i'm just getting past pre-school.
JTanguay : are you referring to the cold start device that advaces the timing at idle and low speed running, advancing the timing ~5 degrees to provide more burn time for the fuel and prevent smoky cold start -up, it is my understanding the piston operates normally above 2000 rpm.
question : how can this be retarded for NOx reduction and is there dire consequecses if left alone like that on driveability and overall performance and MPG gain.?
it seems to me like it could be a most cost effective way to reduce NOx than deal with all the additional parts that has to be retrofited to my NA engine rendering it very goofy looking, i like the stealthy engine bay.
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his sig says he's from Palo Alto but I'm guessing he's really from Humboldt County 8)
:)
i used to live in oakland. CA. where medical dispensery can be found at every street corner. and only at this locale where street dwellers got funky different names for their merchandise and they all does the same, fog your judgement and 5 hours later i'm sobered up, well since i got my dieselwagen my priorities change for the better. i still hang-out old homies doing 4 footers but i don't see myself spending $$ on those waste anymore. imagine a fat sack or full tank of B20. who in the right mind will make a senseful decision. i rely on my ride so heavily to pick up my kids in roseville 2 weekends in one month (fuel money and extra spending $$ for the kids, that leaves nothing for the old way of life, thank you.)
i have to admit that TREE is a very pretty picture, you should save that for christmas and dicorate it with christmas lights and angel at the top :D
i do live in east palo alto becuase my wife wants to, some of you know how it is.
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Me too. NOX levels are not DRASTICALLY increased by using Bio. They are elevated though. A simple timing adjustment will make them less than D2. Now take that into consideration with the 70%ish particulate reduction and you win. You can then tell them to put it in their pipes and smoke it :p
i'm new to diesel IP; could you please be kind enough sir, to give me a breakdown on how exactly you would perform a simple timing adjustment that will make NOx output considerably less than #2. i'm not expecting 500 or more parts per million reduction, but any reduction will ge good.
and sorry i can't be a smart ass because some of my homies work for the california air resources board. :(
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NOx + sunlight = photochemical smog.
While that is true, it is also not particularly accurate.
The limiting reagent in the smog formation equation is far and away unburnt hydrocarbons, AND SMOG actually increases on the weekends in California when the majority of diesel trucks are not running. Many studies have found that a significant surplus of NOx REDUCES 03 (SMOG) formation is urban areas.
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i'm new to diesel IP; could you please be kind enough sir, to give me a breakdown on how exactly you would perform a simple timing adjustment that will make NOx output considerably less than #2. i'm not expecting 500 or more parts per million reduction, but any reduction will ge good.
and sorry i can't be a smart ass because some of my homies work for the california air resources board. :(
SImple, the same way you change the timing on a gasser. Adjust the thing that causes the fire. In a gasser, you rotate the spark distributor. In a diesel, you rotate the fuel distributor (injection pump). As for the cold start, think of it like the vacuum advance on a normal gas distributor. Both systems have an internal advance mechanism that changes timing with rpm. The cold start is a manual override for this system.
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In a diesel, you rotate the fuel distributor (injection pump). ....... The cold start is a manual override for this system.
rotate the fuel distributor (as in rotate the whole IP assembly?) or just a certain part outside of the IP?
cold start device, doesn't that part only advance timing when activated through the lever which i pull when starting a cold engine?
as far as retarding the timing, is there a effect with the overall performance with driveability?
what will this do the the EGT? and overall visible soot out of the tailpipe.
can i expect more or less visible particulate, unburned HC?
thanks for all the info. :D
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Well, this explains how all those whacked out laws get passed in California. :lol: :P :lol: :P :lol:
Thats exactly how it happens...
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interesting set of responses, all appreciated. the crazy EGR retrofit concept may still happen but not on my ride.
i will try outside IP mods instead like backing off the max speed adj. screw to give the control lever additional degree of movement before full throttle stop. this move may give me +1 or 2 mph on my max. speed (maybe)