VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: anto on July 02, 2008, 03:22:00 am

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: anto on July 02, 2008, 03:22:00 am

What is the deal with using mercedes nozzles?
Have they got a better spray pattern?
How do vw owners actually incorporate the nozzles into the vw injectors?
What model of mercedes do the nozzles come off?
can the be used with the bosch pump the car came with or does it need upgraded or just adjusted to suit?

Sorry for the many questions, just a diesel owner keen to learn and apply the knowledge to my own car.

Thanks
Anton

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: anto on July 03, 2008, 01:11:50 am

Anybody?
Or am i off the mark completely?

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: dillenger1 on July 03, 2008, 03:09:05 am

merc nozzles are thought to inject more fuel.They will fit into your injector bodies.they come from the older mercedes (300d).

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: anto on July 03, 2008, 06:43:08 am

Quote from: "dillenger1"

merc nozzles are thought to inject more fuel.They will fit into your injector bodies.they come from the older mercedes (300d).

Thanks dillinger il go have a look around a few scrapyards see if i can find a set out of an old merc and do a bit of experimenting...

Any other info on them, keep it coming.....

Thanks again
Anto

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: rabbid79 on July 03, 2008, 07:11:44 pm

I've heard people speculate that these nozzles may be a root cause of swirl chambers falling out of heads.  I've also read where people are making nearly 200HP w/ GTD nozzles, and modified pumps.  If it were me, I'd see how far these two mods took me before installing the Mercedes nozzles and their potential problems.  Just be careful.

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: burnt_servo on July 03, 2008, 07:49:27 pm

Quote from: "rabbid79"

I've heard people speculate that these nozzles may be a root cause of swirl chambers falling out of heads.  I've also read where people are making nearly 200HP w/ GTD nozzles, and modified pumps.  If it were me, I'd see how far these two mods took me before installing the Mercedes nozzles and their potential problems.  Just be careful.

how would the nozzle cause the precup chamber to fall out of the head ?

for all intents and purposes it is identical to the vw part , and has a similar spray pattern .

Title: Double spray pattern
Post by: Giles@PerformanceDiesel on July 03, 2008, 08:03:43 pm

Mercedez nozzles were developed to smoothen out the rough idle
of the 5 cylinder engine

they have a stream of fuel that is not atomized as a pre-injection

this would not be very good in VW's

Giles

Title: Re: Double spray pattern
Post by: burnt_servo on July 04, 2008, 05:49:46 am

Quote from: "Giles@PerformanceDiesel"

Mercedez nozzles were developed to smoothen out the rough idle
of the 5 cylinder engine

they have a stream of fuel that is not atomized as a pre-injection

this would not be very good in VW's

Giles

i noticed that at the lower pop presures , i assumed it was from the  flat spot in the tip in the nozzle .
i've heard some guys call it a " self cleaning nozzle ".

right now my nozzles are set at 2500 psi , and that stream that was there at the lower pop presure's ( below 2300 psi ) doesn't seem to be there any more .

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: Dirtrag2 on July 04, 2008, 03:29:06 pm

I've never seen a GTD in Canada... at least not my neck of the woods :)
does VW still carry the nozzles in their parts inventory or sdo i have to seach the web?

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: burnt_servo on July 04, 2008, 06:48:46 pm

there is a guy on ebay that is selling real bosch gtd nozzles , made in france .
i think he is from ontario.

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: AdAm84 on July 04, 2008, 06:56:51 pm

I found the bosch part# for the nozzles, but what are the specs for the GTD nozzle? Does it have a higher breaking pressure or is the difference just the nozzle?

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: Smokey Eddy on July 09, 2008, 12:36:48 am

I put mercedes nozzles in my jetta and i get better economy (i think) and smoother running in general; Idle and driving. I paid 65$ for all 4 i think from some guy's company based in Quebec. This is exactly where i got them from
http://www.veg-injection-service.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_8&products_id=29

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: chrisrandle1 on July 09, 2008, 01:20:03 am

Does any one know a site that sells an assortment of nozzles, I know that the GM nozzles fit too, more fuel yet?  Also where do i get the shims to set the pop pressure? And last is there someone that I can send my injectors to, to be pop tested for a reasonable price, local guys in my area are expensive.

Thanks a bunch
-Chris

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: zukgod1 on July 09, 2008, 09:31:01 am

Quote from: "chrisrandle1"

Does any one know a site that sells an assortment of nozzles, I know that the GM nozzles fit too, more fuel yet?  Also where do i get the shims to set the pop pressure? And last is there someone that I can send my injectors to, to be pop tested for a reasonable price, local guys in my area are expensive.

Thanks a bunch
-Chris

Chris,

contact Duane blkboostedtruck on the board about getting your injectors done.

And on the other nozzles idea.

I'm currently running merc nozzles in my 1.6. If I remember correctly Dave ran stocker 1.6 nozzles in his beast and was pushing 200 WHP with a good pump and a ported head.

When I built my car I had a injection shop look at some different nozzles for their flow rate and came up with some nozzles off a CASE back hoe application that out flowed the Chev, VW and Merc tips. The VW and Chev tips flowed the same CC's BTW..

I have the CASE tips installed in OE VW bodies. and set @ 136 bar.
Ive been going to reinstall them to see how they perform now that my timing is set correctly but I haven't.
I originally had them installed and had my timing set @ .38" which is about .96mm I think. I just reset everything to 1.05mm and turned the pump down. When they were installed originally I could get my K24 to hit 40 psi... No wonder the shaft broke..

Anyway I would just get a larger pump head and go with OE 1.6 tips or Merc tips if I was to do it again.

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: VW_Commuter on July 09, 2008, 11:09:06 am

Zuk, do you have the part/stock number for those nozzles for the CASE backhoe?

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: zukgod1 on July 09, 2008, 11:22:23 am

Quote from: "VW_Commuter"

Zuk, do you have the part/stock number for those nozzles for the CASE backhoe?

Yes I do, at home.
I think i even have the flow rates.

I'll post them up tonight. You may have to drop me a PM to remind me though. Once I get home I shut down all brain activity..

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: Vincent Waldon on July 09, 2008, 12:11:56 pm

Quote from: "zukgod1"

I think i even have the flow rates.

OMG OMG OMG... flow rates !!  ;-)

I'd kill to see some flow rates !!

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: zukgod1 on July 09, 2008, 12:50:30 pm

Quote from: "libbybapa"

X2 part number and flow rates needed.   :wink:

Andrew

I have both the part #'s and flow rates for the CASE tips and Chev 6.5 tips.

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: dillenger1 on July 09, 2008, 02:05:15 pm

.........aaaaaaaaand...?

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: zukgod1 on July 09, 2008, 02:12:30 pm

Patience grasshoppa. I'm not home and that's where the info is located.

I'm still @ work for a few hrs

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: zukgod1 on July 10, 2008, 06:17:07 am

Here's what I have guys.

mm/1000st        Application       Part#

76  Yellow dot= 6.2L Nozzel     DNSO SD 248

76  White dot=    VW              DNSO SD 293

80  Red dot=       CASE          DN4S D42


The first # is the flow rate it has a mm/3, 1000st (I have no idea what that means)
So for what it worth hope it helps.

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: gigaz2 on July 10, 2008, 06:21:28 am

cubic millimeters for 1000 strokes? makes sense to me

Title: Mercedes Nozzles
Post by: zukgod1 on July 10, 2008, 06:28:46 am

As long as someone knows what it means :)