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General Information => General => Topic started by: zukgod1 on February 25, 2008, 09:12:54 am
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So I get my engine installed, new clutch etc etc and I cant get the damn clutch cable to adjust. Peddle dangles there and disengages the clutch about 1" off the floor.
Any suggestions as how to get it to pay attention to the new clutch?
Reset it somehow?
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Yup, they seem to be pretty much a "install once" item... even if you follow the specific cable removal procedure in the Bentley you may still have trouble getting it to ever work again... just went thru it on my MK3.
My understanding is that once they stop "self-adjusting" you are hooped... no way to repair. And, to prove the internet wrong, I spent a good evening playing with the one I had that died... no joy. Among other things I tried was the "bring it back from the dead" procedure in the MK3 Bentley... didn't work at all for me.
So I bought a brand new manual-adjust one (for about half the price of the self-adjust style) and moved on !!
Perhaps someone out there has mastered these beasts ??
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i think I have a older manual adjusted one, I'll have to start digging I guess.. :(
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assuming the cable is still good, and still on the car, press the pedal to the floor once, then grab the cable above the adjuster and then the adjuster itself. push the adjuster UP towards the cable. Of course i should have said to put some mechanic wire around the cable just above the adjusting sleeve with some left hanging down on both sides. If and when the adjusting sleeve moves up grab one of the wire ends and wrap it around the little tab that's sticking out, then the other side. If it doesn't work the first time try again pushing the pedal to the floor only once.
I have no problems with those cables and i garantee they will make your clutch last longer.
Some people don't like them because you can't visaully see how much adjustment is left. The way to tell if your clutch is shot [besides the smell !] is if you push down the lever, the more clutch is left the more you will be able to push the lever down.
As above but with the cable on the bench, put the clutch end into a vise and pulling slight tension on it grab the cable and pull the adjuster towards the firewall end of the cable.
good luck and keep the faith
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I think I'm confused.
The cable I have is good but it seems to be to long now, just like the clutch is worn which it's not.
Basically when it's all hooked up correctly the clutch peddle just hangs there, you can tell it doesn't do anything until it's almost on the floor.
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Yup, your self-adjuster has self-adjusted... incorrectly :wink:
Perhaps try what Caveman suggests (that's the official "bring it back from the dead" procedure I was talking about above).
Let's hope you have better luck than me :roll:
Vince
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I just reread my post and I put in there the cable is to long. That's not the case. It's to short thus the play in the clutch peddle before it does anything.
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maybe i wasn't totally clear and/ or missed a step. If possible disconnect the cable from the lever. It may two of you, or i just use a big prybar to lever the lever up and take the clip off. When you manage to slide the adjuster on the cable towards the firewall [ like i said in the last post] ,then pull the actual metal cable away from the sleeve[hold the adjuster, pull the cable]. It took me a while to be able tackle them so be patient. Some times if find it way easier to do it with a vise and a friend ....... and a beer.
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my self adjuster screwed up on me. the clutch wouldn't catch till the last bit of pedal travel. at the end point it felt like it wasn't fully engaged :shock: i drove a little bit like that as it didn't seem to be slipping, but i didn't try to make it!
what i ended up doing was get my brother to press the clutch fully a few times, then hold it in (i think) so i grabbed the cable under the car and pulled it from the arm. gave it some good nice tugs to free it. put it back on, and then played with the clutch pedal some more (just depressing it fully a few times) and that seemed to work. hard to explain... its like magic! :lol:
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yeah basically what jtanquay is trying to say is that the cable has to be pulled out away from the adjusting sleeve just after the pedal is pressed.
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I'll take a closer look at it tonight.
Thanks for the tips.
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It's allot easier to reusing one if you have two people. I was able to do it myself with some zip ties. One to hold the throwout arm and clip the cble while the other compresses the spring.
Use a couple to hold the throw out arm up and another to hold the rubber block and metal plate on the arm, from there you should be able to use one hand to compress the cable and another to slip the retaining clip on, if only just enough so you can position it better after the cable is clipped and cut off the zip ties.
I have also been able to compress the cable and use to zip ties crossways to keep it compressed.
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Thanks for the tips guys.
I've decided I have a problem somewhere else, the cable seems to be fine.
I've found I have a REALLY short geared trans so I'm pulling it tomorrow anyway for a swap. I'll be able to check everything else while I'm there.
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My question is, what vehicle had the manual adjust cables on them. I found one on a MkII, but the clutch pedal side didn't fit the MKIII, so your screwed. Anyone found the silver bullet to this one?
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Yeah, the MK3 cable is completely different at the pedal end... those turkeys. And what a delight to put on. Thankfully my cluster was out at the time... from the dash it's a piece of cake. From underneath... yuk !
Part number for the MK3 manual clutch cable is 1H1 721 335 AB.
Vince
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assuming the cable is still good, and still on the car, press the pedal to the floor once, then grab the cable above the adjuster and then the adjuster itself. push the adjuster UP towards the cable. Of course i should have said to put some mechanic wire around the cable just above the adjusting sleeve with some left hanging down on both sides. If and when the adjusting sleeve moves up grab one of the wire ends and wrap it around the little tab that's sticking out, then the other side. If it doesn't work the first time try again pushing the pedal to the floor only once.
I have no problems with those cables and i garantee they will make your clutch last longer.
Some people don't like them because you can't visaully see how much adjustment is left. The way to tell if your clutch is shot [besides the smell !] is if you push down the lever, the more clutch is left the more you will be able to push the lever down.
As above but with the cable on the bench, put the clutch end into a vise and pulling slight tension on it grab the cable and pull the adjuster towards the firewall end of the cable.
good luck and keep the faith
Hey Caveman, I tried your procedure but can't seem to get enough length out of the metal cable to reach through the opening of the clutch lever. Can you describe how the clutch cable self adjust feature works internally? What does stepping on the clutch in your procedure do? Does it rest something? I don't want to pull the cable to study it and end up doing more work/ breaking something else in the process. Right now I have the cable end hooked up to the clutch lever with just the cable retainer minus the rubber block and metal support spacer because I can't get sufficient length from the metal cable.
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I just reread what I wrote and may have described it wrong. It helps to have someone help for the first part. First with it still mounted up to the trans and clutch lever, press the clutch pedal once to the floor and release. Then under the hood, with that piece of wire wrapped around the end of the cable sleeve just above the adjuster [ with about 5-6 inches of ends hanging loose on opposite sides], grab the adjuster part with one hand and push up against the sleeve. You should be able to move it a few inches up. Now quickly tie the ends of the wire around the two round tabs sticking of the side of the adjuster tight enough to hold the adjuster in place. you should now be able to detach the end of the cable off the clutch lever,pull the cable down [while holding the adjuster] enough to get slack to mount the rubber bit, metal clip and lock.
Doing it is much easier than trying to explain it.
Be patient, it may take a couple of tries, but you should be able to do it. All this is assuming your clutch isn't shot and at the end of it's adjustment, which means the lever will be at it's lowest point , there fore you won't have enough cable , because there isn't enough slack left.
It can be done, i've done it dozens of times.
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Caveman, maybe I was not being clear. The clutch cable is already unhooked from the lever without taking any special precaution. The clutch was working fine so not completely worn out afaik. I need more slack out of the metal cable in order to put it back on the lever. Right now, I have it hooked to the lever without the rubber block/ metal plate under it because of insufficient length in the metal cable. I would like to put the rubber block/ metal plate back in but unless I can get more length from the metal cable, it will not fit.
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Caveman, maybe I was not being clear. The clutch cable is already unhooked from the lever without taking any special precaution. The clutch was working fine so not completely worn out afaik. I need more slack out of the metal cable in order to put it back on the lever. Right now, I have it hooked to the lever without the rubber block/ metal plate under it because of insufficient length in the metal cable. I would like to put the rubber block/ metal plate back in but unless I can get more length from the metal cable, it will not fit.
just throw away the auto cable and buy a mk2 manual adjust cable.
the auto cables are junk. they never let your clutch assembly completely release.
if you have an auto cable, its basically the same as riding the clutch 100% of the time.
there is always a load on the throw out bearing, as well as everything associated with it..
and it NEVER fully releases tension on any of the clutch components..
i had an auto cable on my Jetta when i first got it, then the clutch started slipping, and i noticed the clutch cable was very tight. switched to a manual cable, and drove that clutch another 20k miles..
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R.O.R-2.0_When we used to service all the diesel Jetta taxis back in the late eighties, the ones with adjustable clutch cables would wear them out in less than a year [ driven 24/7 ; 150,000 kms per year]; which meant that by the time 2 year unlimited warranty ran out, some of them had had their clutches changed 2,3 or 4 times. The ones with self adjusting clutches would need it changed once , maybe twice. Since then I would only use a self adjusting cable.
Caveman, maybe I was not being clear. The clutch cable is already unhooked from the lever without taking any special precaution. The clutch was working fine so not completely worn out afaik. I need more slack out of the metal cable in order to put it back on the lever. Right now, I have it hooked to the lever without the rubber block/ metal plate under it because of insufficient length in the metal cable. I would like to put the rubber block/ metal plate back in but unless I can get more length from the metal cable, it will not fit.
Okay you will still be able to still do it.Pull the cable [ the end coming out of the adjuster] and the adjuster. Have someone press the clutch pedal once. You should then be able to collapse the adjuster and wrap the wire around the tabs. If it doesn't work once , try again. All you are doing is getting past the internal ratchet and making it's teeth move up a few spots
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caveman, thanks, I'll try again. I don't understand why a manual cable will wear the clutch out sooner. As long as it's adjusted so it separates the pressure plate from the friction disc when you step on the pedal, shouldn't it last just as long as a self adjusting cable?
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caveman, thanks, I'll try again. I don't understand why a manual cable will wear the clutch out sooner. As long as it's adjusted so it separates the pressure plate from the friction disc when you step on the pedal, shouldn't it last just as long as a self adjusting cable?
yea, idk whats up with that..
like i said, i changed from a auto cable to a manual, when the clutch was already slipping, and drove the clutch another 15k miles or so..
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id say someone did not set the freeplay properly... all auto adjust ones ive delt with wore out clutches faster then the rest as auto ones lack free play..
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id say someone did not set the freeplay properly... all auto adjust ones ive delt with wore out clutches faster then the rest as auto ones lack free play..
me too. if properly adjusted, the manual cable should be leaps and bounds better than the auto..
Caveman, you sure you dont have it backwards, and the auto cables would eat 3x or 4x more clutches in the same time period?
it doesnt sound right.. if the manual cable is adjusted right, it should NOT exert any stress on any of the clutch components when released.
the auto cable NEVER releases tension on the clutch setup. just like i mentioned before, having a auto cable is just like constantly riding the clutch pedal 100% of the time..
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Agreed. I asked Brian of brokevw (he's been a great help with my ACN tranny prep) and he said that self adjust cables do not extend clutch life, they reduce it. The self adjust cable keeps constant tension on the clutch parts, not enough to disengage the clutch, but enough to cause accelerated wear between push rod and the thrust plate at the clutch.
I've got manual cable coming in the mail.
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Manual cable 15-25 bucks.
self adjust 50-75 dollars.
no brainer.
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What about leaving this info here for someone who may be stuck or wants to use a automatic cable. I'm sure he could of figured out that a regular cable would work.He was asking how to fix what he had, not what his options were. This is why I hate forums and why I haven't been on this site for the last 4 months
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id say someone did not set the freeplay properly... all auto adjust ones ive delt with wore out clutches faster then the rest as auto ones lack free play..
me too. if properly adjusted, the manual cable should be leaps and bounds better than the auto..
Caveman, you sure you dont have it backwards, and the auto cables would eat 3x or 4x more clutches in the same time period?
it doesnt sound right.. if the manual cable is adjusted right, it should NOT exert any stress on any of the clutch components when released.
the auto cable NEVER releases tension on the clutch setup. just like i mentioned before, having a auto cable is just like constantly riding the clutch pedal 100% of the time..
NO I DON'T HAVE IT BACK WARDS. We used to retrofit all those jetta taxis so their clutches would last twice as long. At the same time we would ditch the regular discs and pads for ventilated ones, so the brakes would last more than 2 weeks.
Did 92ecodieseljetta want our opinion? NO- he wanted to know how to fix what he had
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Agreed. I asked Brian of brokevw (he's been a great help with my ACN tranny prep) and he said that self adjust cables do not extend clutch life, they reduce it. The self adjust cable keeps constant tension on the clutch parts, not enough to disengage the clutch, but enough to cause accelerated wear between push rod and the thrust plate at the clutch.
I've got manual cable coming in the mail.
but if BrokeVW says the manual cables are better, then in my mind, the manual cables are better..
and my MY PERSONAL experiences, the AUTO CABLES SUCK ASS..
i dont like messing with my cable for 45 mins to get it to adjust.
and im SURE AS HELL not going to pay the 4-5 prices of the auto cable, compared to a manual cable..
and i still think you guys were doing something wrong with the jetta taxis. that makes no sense, a MANUAL cable eating a clutch faster.. maybe it was the other end of the equation, maybe the drivers rode the clutch more with the manual cables, who knows?
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Thanks Caveman for the info on how to fix the auto cable. I have never owned an auto cable personally and this will be quite helpful if I ever do. I do have a bentley and I have no clue if they are covered in there or not, I have never looked for them.
Please let us mods know if there is more we could do to make it more enjoyable for everyone. I know we all have different experiences and different opinions, which is what makes it get better sometimes.
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Thanks Caveman for the info on how to fix the auto cable. I have never owned an auto cable personally and this will be quite helpful if I ever do. I do have a bentley and I have no clue if they are covered in there or not, I have never looked for them.
Please let us mods know if there is more we could do to make it more enjoyable for everyone. I know we all have different experiences and different opinions, which is what makes it get better sometimes.
Thank you for not letting me hate everyone
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Manual cable arrived. It's a Gemo. After disconnecting the old cable from the clutch lever on the tranny, can the cable be unhooked from the clutch pedal without removing anything to get access (instr cluster? knee bar?).
Anyone want to buy a used self adjust cable? lol
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So my clutch has been annoying lately so today I reset it like caveman said to, the ratchet device didn't want to release but once I got it done the pedal feels way nicer.
I think the reason the auto adjust cables were making clutches outlast manual cabled ones was because the manual cables were never adjusted and as the clutch wore the cable held it partway open allowing major slippage to occur.
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Yup. like 1/8th inch play at the pedal?
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auto adjust is garbage not yet in the can.