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timing belt wont center by carrizog60 on 10 Dec, 2016 07:43
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hello
second time this happens...
first time when changing timing belt i noticed that belt was way thinner but thought that it was a wrong belt .
now today preparing to remove the pump to change a leaking seal and as soon as i take the belt cover of i noticed the same thing:belt rubbed against the cover and was thinner than normal.
so for some reason belt is pushing outside the pulleys(it was outside by 1mm when i removed).
i have a 1.9 engine and a 1.6 pump.
the pump pulley bolt came easy,should a low torqued pulley cause that?
on the pic i already removed the belt,but on cam pulley that is the position that i found it.
http://imgur.com/a/P8wLg
also,is it worth to change the plunger for a 11mm i have?
i have a gt2052v turbo,and this is a daily driver.will the fuel economy change that much?
thanks
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#1 by carrizog60 on 10 Dec, 2016 12:25
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changed the offended seals but might have a bad news...
with the pump clamped on the vice and after turning the pulley to see if it spins i noticed a small side movement of the shaft.
will it tighten up when i put the pulley and torque it to spec?(might pull the shaft a bit)
edit:
placed my timing gauge on the side and even that i only hold it by hand i had a .010mm reading.
searched the net and found that 0.20mm is the max wear so even giving it a little marge of error i still am on the ok side.
any tip to remove the seal without damaging the shaft?my seal has a metal casing and tried to remove it by a twisting movement but is a no go. heat? -
#2 by libbydiesel on 10 Dec, 2016 13:15
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You can adjust the belt tracking by loosening the pump bracket to block bolts and rotating the bracket. Sprocket side DOWN - lines UP tracks closer to block.
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#3 by carrizog60 on 10 Dec, 2016 13:38
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so if i pull the bracket all the way down on the sprocket side the belt will go to the side of the pump?any reference point?
will i still be able to adjust the bracket with the pump on place or do i need to disassemble all again?
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#4 by libbydiesel on 10 Dec, 2016 16:13
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Pull the pump.
Loosen the bolts that hold the bracket to the block, then tighten them hand tight so you can move the bracket, but it will stay where you put it.
Push the bracket down on the sprocket side and *at the same time* pull it up on the side where the metal lines go.
Install the pump and timing belt, but before hooking anything else up, run the crank through several revolutions until the belt stops wandering.
Adjust as necessary. -
#5 by ORCoaster on 10 Dec, 2016 18:18
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When I popped that link open and saw the width of the belt I went OH Crap!.. Yes you have an alignment problem and following Libby's directions you will cure that. As to the shaft wiggle I think you are good on that if you get a new seal on it. I thought there was a how to in the stickies section on how to remove that seal. Basically you get something in between the metal and rubber part of the seal itself and wiggle it off the shaft. Then tap an new one in with a deep socket or seal installer.
Hope you have it done by now. I got rained out of my repair project. -
#6 by carrizog60 on 11 Dec, 2016 10:05
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only tomorrow i will get the parts,today disassembled the water pump to change it.
lets hope it will cure the belt location as this is the second time that happens,and on both had luck to see it before it snapped.
so,since i dont consider miself a lucky guy i dont want to push it
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#7 by ORCoaster on 11 Dec, 2016 17:20
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Almost makes you want to put a view port in that belt cover doesn't it? Run it for a week and check it. It shouldn't be walking once you get it aligned the first time. But those bolts may come loose on you so a check after a week or two might do the trick.
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#8 by libbydiesel on 11 Dec, 2016 19:11
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On several of the plastic covers I have cut out a little rectangle and covered it with a glued on piece of clear acrylic. It's nice to be able to see the timing belt alignment without pulling the cover off. Also, as most of you might know, being able to view the timing belt tracking at a glance, virtually guarantees that there will never be a problem with the tracking...
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#9 by ORCoaster on 11 Dec, 2016 23:59
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Leave it to you to be ahead of the curve again! I was thinking of drilling a hole and popping in one of those 1 inch round site glasses. Actually I think they are acrylic.
If I find a source I might pass it on here. Seems like VW would have been engineering that into the beast as forward thinking as they are.
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#10 by carrizog60 on 13 Dec, 2016 13:36
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what about the torque values for the cam and pump pulley?
its hard to remove the belt shreds from the intermediate shaft pulley... -
#11 by libbydiesel on 14 Dec, 2016 10:41
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That sounds like some pointless effort and the hard way to do it, air-cooled. Prior to tensioning the belt, it is easy to center the belt on each sprocket/pulley. If the belt tracking is adjusted properly then there is no need to do anything special. It will track right to its proper place simply by rotating the engine the normal CW direction. If the tracking is not adjusted properly no amount of squishing the belt this way or that or rotating the engine backwards will make it track properly. I have installed a large number of timing belts and have never needed 'a helper' for any part of the process.
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#12 by libbydiesel on 14 Dec, 2016 16:20
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That sounds like some pointless effort and the hard way to do it, air-cooled.
since you last personal response to me, which you went off-over-board on me, youve toned it down, how nice. your still Way to critical, your toned response, toned down as now as it is, isnt really substantial to my part of subject.
and its hardly pointless, and as long as you dont slip screwdriver off belt, and injure belt, its fairly easy,quick, maybe more than 1reverse turn of crank, well 2x in,, the case, anyways, and ive got good results doing it.
As I recall, in all of the interactions I've had with you, I've always been courteous and helpful when pointing out poor procedures or bad advice you have recommended. Also, as I recall, the only one acting out in an obnoxious way in any interaction between us has always been all you, friend. I'm just going to keep on giving helpful responses and good advice in an indifferent, courteous and intelligent manner regardless of how loudly you cry about your bruised ego or hurt feelings.
I see that you have no understanding about spelling, grammar, capitalization, or punctuation, but are you even using English? Disregarding the mechanical concepts and focusing just on the text itself, your posts are borderline illegible nonsense. If you put a bit more effort into actually expressing yourself well in text it would both help you get your point across and help anyone who happens to put in the effort of trying to read what you write. Regardless, I will do my best to decipher what you are trying to say in your last post...Quotefor 1 if lets say you want to -zero- out dial gauge on injpump for timing, and you dont have belt removed, of you dont set dial with belt off, you need a helper;
Best I can tell, you are saying you need a helper to zero the dial indicator. Nope. I have zeroed out the dial indicator multiple times without issue and without any assistance from any helper. It's not even remotely challenging. I can't imagine what your issue is if you find it difficult to do solo.Quote2-any time ive put a new belt on, OR checked cam to crank timing i need a helper,
Sounds like you're saying you've needed a helper any time you have installed a belt or checked the cam timing. Sounds like a procedural issue to me. I've never needed or even wanted a helper for either. Turning the crank is hard and seeing the timing mark at the same time is hard for you? Are you disabled?Quoteits also more difficult to get a belt centered all the way around, esp.with lower timing cover on.
Again, I've never had any difficulty at all in centering the belt on each sprocket/pulley. I can't even imagine what difficulty you might be having. Why would you leave the lower timing belt cover on when installing a timing belt? That's just comical. No wonder you find the whole procedure so hard when you take 'shortcuts' like that.Quoteand even if you felt it was ok, ooh turn the crank a few times, and even in that case you may prefer an adjustment to belt tracking, and nows the time to do it.
Whenever you notice that the belt is not tracking correctly, that is the time to adjust it. Whenever I have removed and installed the pump bracket onto the block, I always check the tracking as soon as I can get the pump/belt on and prior to hooking anything else up. That minimizes the backtracking you need to do to make an adjustment. Otherwise, the new belt usually tracks the same as the old one. If the old one was tracking fine, the new one will too, 99% of the time.
To be clear, none of the 'pushing with a screwdriver' or 'rotating counterclockwise' or 'having your helper do this or do that' will have any lasting effect on the belt tracking. As soon as the engine is started, the belt will zoom right back to where it was tracking prior to any of those pointless gyrations.
If the belt tracking needs to be adjusted, it is most easily and most effectively done by adjusting the pump bracket in the manner I described previously. Other 'hack' ways of adjusting the tracking that I've heard recommended have been to add shims or bend brackets...Quoteso a little more advice on it, for one only the first few teeth of cam gear can you get belt to easily move,center, then turn crank, rev, keep it centered, as it gets centered over the injpump, in reverse, keep coming back till that centered part of belt gets back over cam gear, this will eliminate some side stress that may bring belt back off track.
This last quote just seems like utter nonsense to me. Prior to tensioning the belt, push it to the center of each of the sprockets with your fingers, easy peasy. No other actions of rotating back and forth, or a helper pushing with a screwdriver are needed for centering the belt. Again, you're doing it the hard way.
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#13 by libbydiesel on 14 Dec, 2016 18:09
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Are you disabled?
moderator please; and this isnt your only, off topic, unsubstantiated, offensive comment.
How is that an 'unsubstantiated' or 'offensive' comment. It isn't even a comment, lol! It is a question, and a serious one at that. It wasn't in any way critical or judgmental. Your reaction to it is downright bizarre. No offense was meant by the question. The fact that you find the question offensive is simply your own judgemental attitude and your own insult to disabled individuals.
Regarding the rest of your post, you are yet again the one stooping to offensive ranting and raving. I just can't stoop to that level. Good luck with that. Hopefully the next time you offer bad advice and I attempt to point it out and correct it in the spirit of helpfulness to you and anyone else reading, you can take it with a bit more grace and appreciation. -
#14 by libbydiesel on 14 Dec, 2016 18:28
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Air-cooled, I think that your bizarre reactions to my posts must stem from your belief that if I say that the procedure you are advising is not a good idea and I explain the reasons why it is not a good idea, then it is in some way a personal attack. You seem to think that when I offer a differing view on mechanical procedures, I am 'telling you off'. That is not the case. It is not personal. It is not emotional. It is not an attack. It is a technical discussion.
If you say that 1+1=3, I will tell you that it does not, 1+1 is actually equal to 2, not 3. Telling you that 1+1=2 is not a personal attack regardless of how personally attached you are to 1+1 equalling 3. If you want to take it as a personal attack or think that I am 'telling you off', that is certainly your prerogative but it might be in your own best interest to rethink that.